From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LVF2q-0005mX-CQ for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:58:12 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 520FDE0473; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:58:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qy0-f20.google.com (mail-qy0-f20.google.com [209.85.221.20]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC63E0473 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:58:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13so1054484qyk.10 for ; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:58:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vfakDSKSYFvZXDt99OUxOOTAsDCYB4P5F5RuFLucu3s=; b=BkUkcvuBo8X6QyATcXUWp+apyR9JT8rFEbudxZWBvqRmlr27b+ordZeKdS+MMAuQr9 TdNYjPM5qC9wZkwT51phfdESV4bCWyXQhozf09eyC+OgaIummjKVHGVMdWC5AWO8ae+Z XyXKMuxGPR/tkJm0d6M1+A/LWUSjSP7pgAONM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=pqezQIAMLXVdIW+gV94XW7suapc3NKgOamAYLKhbeYzpu1SiihWv+oQk98Pib90nnA eumjXlbtRdtrAmINm98VYen2A9WPK0pfBpIGjZdbDWPuPaULOBZgIgbtAwiyxm4RKRR1 GwOXMESK24apQ/K8ACij6dXxED+ufxMvMKcX8= Received: by 10.215.67.8 with SMTP id u8mr1793173qak.206.1233881888781; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gentoo-everex.local (cpe-72-185-51-230.tampabay.res.rr.com [72.185.51.230]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 34sm1704248yxl.20.2009.02.05.16.58.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:58:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <498B8B1E.8060805@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:58:06 -0500 From: Saphirus Sage User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20081231) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh? References: <200902052010.25653.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <200902052036.05303.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <498B42D4.3060005@gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0902051220m35e15s2171a98bba6cf82e@mail.gmail.com> <58965d8a0902051232u6ad8a601ge4b88791ddb36397@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0902051257v68c80142x18d8902a3aa7f7c1@mail.gmail.com> <498B5DAF.8040000@gmail.com> <498B6ED1.2090507@gmail.com> <498B7053.7010708@gmail.com> <498B7026.4000502@gmail.com> <498B7263.7040405@gmail.com> <498B8A55.1060008@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <498B8A55.1060008@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: e474a94e-b387-4fd3-adba-8d096ee7a1bb X-Archives-Hash: 5606cc1c33ee05d16c2b173620780bde Dale wrote: > Joshua D Doll wrote: > >> Saphirus Sage wrote: >> >>> Joshua D Doll wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Dale wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Joshua D Doll wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Mark Knecht wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman >>>>>>> wrote: I completely agree. I >>>>>>> like the control also. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I only took a *very* small exception to Joshua's statement that a >>>>>>> 'new >>>>>>> user' could read, follow it and understand what it's telling him/her >>>>>>> to do and then do it and come out with a working machine. I think >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> true if the new user builds exactly the 3 partition example shown in >>>>>>> the docs and does *only* the very basic install on a machine that >>>>>>> doesn't have Windows, etc. However I think that the docs (not the >>>>>>> software!) could be improved to handle things like dual-boot, either >>>>>>> another distro or windows, etc. which personally I think 'new users' >>>>>>> come up against. Issues about stuff like where to put the MBR, >>>>>>> why and >>>>>>> why not to do that sort of thing, requires (or is vastly >>>>>>> enhanced) if >>>>>>> that new user has some knowledge about hard drives, booting, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Mark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> I 100% agree that the docs can and should cover more. Maybe a >>>>>> flowchart would be useful? >>>>>> >>>>>> --Joshua Doll >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I wish the man pages had more examples. Give me a real world example >>>>> and I can wrap my poor brain around what it should look like when I do >>>>> something. >>>>> >>>>> Dale >>>>> >>>>> :-) :-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Man pages are notoriously bad. The gentoo handbook and other official >>>> docs are great OTOH. >>>> >>>> --Joshua Doll >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Man pages notoriously bad?! Now that's a stance I can hardly understand, >>> they've always been a godsend in my experience! Just practice using a >>> command a few times, look through the options and learn it in the period >>> of ten minutes, and a man page has done its purpose. If this stance is >>> due to your own inadequate ability to read technical documents, then do >>> not apply the lacking to anything but your own capacity for >>> comprehension. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Just cause you haven't run across an uninformative/incomplete man page >> doesn't mean others haven't. Also man pages lacking valuable >> information is the reason why GNU has switched to the majority of >> their packages to using info! You shouldn't flame someone because your >> experiences are different from their's. >> >> --Joshua Doll >> >> >> >> > > I have to say that I have had times that even after someone showed me > how to use a command, the man page made no sense still. If it doesn't > make sense when you know a little about using it, how can it make sense > when you don't? > > I think examples is a good way to do that and the more the better. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > > I'd wager that examples are the responsibility of third parties. Frankly, if I've read a man page and found it inadequate, a quick google search usually will come back with enough examples to resolve any problem. I'm not saying a manpage should be without any examples at all, but if the provided documentation isn't thorough enough, that's what these mailing lists and forums are for.