From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LVEzb-0005OQ-V7 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:54:52 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F10EE03F8; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:54:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com (rv-out-0708.google.com [209.85.198.242]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE80E03F8 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:54:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so562804rvf.46 for ; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:54:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8VWtAWaklhO2RcviKhGnAGkziXMTDYSAkVKgPyqAXCU=; b=lHPQt7Fc77Bo8QBvzvdCCUFJ1Ved0BuuXZfLlBLbWWAM5T9TX45JDDJDWWeyCW/U4I FkFZrGJ8LXd65PA6tbdpd+SVnWcypsa90ImHr4D0cFcc4T0O30OnbzFpvslIq86Zztbq FDTvMBbUHwY/n9tcNwW5hJ5iADrM7yvO1BTSk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YEDzBnHzRNzaS/WrMJCBewejgr9620gVFu3vD2nDTGFE2pr9aSJzEiM1XeSYCKm914 v9hx4/F12d2oBBddqHXNPB4XmKpiGJFm/YqJwM1/YjZeSxQCpABQCbPrP6jIVuOB8fbo iCGyBvsbI4sghX9yPN2cCAdnbOK9wO5KDAub0= Received: by 10.141.26.19 with SMTP id d19mr827752rvj.184.1233881688339; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?4.231.81.143? (dialup-4.231.81.143.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [4.231.81.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f42sm1848096rvb.5.2009.02.05.16.54.44 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:54:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <498B8A55.1060008@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:54:45 -0600 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.19) Gecko/20081227 SeaMonkey/1.1.14 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh? References: <200902052010.25653.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <200902052036.05303.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <498B42D4.3060005@gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0902051220m35e15s2171a98bba6cf82e@mail.gmail.com> <58965d8a0902051232u6ad8a601ge4b88791ddb36397@mail.gmail.com> <5bdc1c8b0902051257v68c80142x18d8902a3aa7f7c1@mail.gmail.com> <498B5DAF.8040000@gmail.com> <498B6ED1.2090507@gmail.com> <498B7053.7010708@gmail.com> <498B7026.4000502@gmail.com> <498B7263.7040405@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <498B7263.7040405@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 479bbe4d-aed2-463c-a170-3173381c3637 X-Archives-Hash: 06da597ced5a1b1e3ce0829a71a3f0ea Joshua D Doll wrote: > Saphirus Sage wrote: >> Joshua D Doll wrote: >> >>> Dale wrote: >>> >>>> Joshua D Doll wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Mark Knecht wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Paul Hartman >>>>>> wrote: I completely agree. I >>>>>> like the control also. >>>>>> >>>>>> I only took a *very* small exception to Joshua's statement that a >>>>>> 'new >>>>>> user' could read, follow it and understand what it's telling him/her >>>>>> to do and then do it and come out with a working machine. I think >>>>>> it's >>>>>> true if the new user builds exactly the 3 partition example shown in >>>>>> the docs and does *only* the very basic install on a machine that >>>>>> doesn't have Windows, etc. However I think that the docs (not the >>>>>> software!) could be improved to handle things like dual-boot, either >>>>>> another distro or windows, etc. which personally I think 'new users' >>>>>> come up against. Issues about stuff like where to put the MBR, >>>>>> why and >>>>>> why not to do that sort of thing, requires (or is vastly >>>>>> enhanced) if >>>>>> that new user has some knowledge about hard drives, booting, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I 100% agree that the docs can and should cover more. Maybe a >>>>> flowchart would be useful? >>>>> >>>>> --Joshua Doll >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I wish the man pages had more examples. Give me a real world example >>>> and I can wrap my poor brain around what it should look like when I do >>>> something. >>>> >>>> Dale >>>> >>>> :-) :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Man pages are notoriously bad. The gentoo handbook and other official >>> docs are great OTOH. >>> >>> --Joshua Doll >>> >>> >> Man pages notoriously bad?! Now that's a stance I can hardly understand, >> they've always been a godsend in my experience! Just practice using a >> command a few times, look through the options and learn it in the period >> of ten minutes, and a man page has done its purpose. If this stance is >> due to your own inadequate ability to read technical documents, then do >> not apply the lacking to anything but your own capacity for >> comprehension. >> >> >> > Just cause you haven't run across an uninformative/incomplete man page > doesn't mean others haven't. Also man pages lacking valuable > information is the reason why GNU has switched to the majority of > their packages to using info! You shouldn't flame someone because your > experiences are different from their's. > > --Joshua Doll > > > I have to say that I have had times that even after someone showed me how to use a command, the man page made no sense still. If it doesn't make sense when you know a little about using it, how can it make sense when you don't? I think examples is a good way to do that and the more the better. Dale :-) :-)