From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LUVyE-00056e-R7 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:50:27 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9649DE04B9; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:50:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.229]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5856BE04B9 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:50:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id g9so1716610rvb.2 for ; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:50:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nknwFcbu1nXZbAxmE0Xv2+VzpT/nH6AJOCwBEEmKWIM=; b=Vdk5595DS2dL7yCqMw5Z0cUq6tvFGgAkQCBL6824XdLaQnEM5GcLSm6eudW1Wuc/zg PcgH9C8TE+QoPlRvlCmpN5yAbYE+zU2ovUneyv0Dwx1v2COX6A7WDpdQ6EHitL5aHIbE Q2kky3FPZnbCkMPb76OHs1asCScRYqms7kb4g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NlR0S9mA4ugE0SsU/6MAbnLxN+mghEiynqBfVATeehuFGNy0kxI559Y/J1YOjVYAzM slw3pazVPdc1StLSY/caoQSMexxMYJ1iSHviIAyxvE+trEKXygSpowNRawnn/FzHq2Dl vrKA2ZgtaN4vhUvwtKUPYj5TLEoBkZP93JTio= Received: by 10.142.158.3 with SMTP id g3mr2602607wfe.333.1233708622855; Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?4.231.81.14? (dialup-4.231.81.14.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [4.231.81.14]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 27sm8058261wff.31.2009.02.03.16.50.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:50:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4988E648.10302@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:50:16 -0600 From: Dale User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.19) Gecko/20081227 SeaMonkey/1.1.14 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh? References: <4988CD37.6010906@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4988CD37.6010906@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 2cb96cb8-c46a-480a-9532-323a76f85992 X-Archives-Hash: ca6f70ea5e0161ab212bd6f05c73fcd8 Saphirus Sage wrote: > Grant Edwards wrote: > >> Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's describe as a system >> similar to BSD "ports" where you build packages from source. >> The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get >> better performance because all executables are optimized for >> exactly the right instruction set. >> >> Where did that bit of apocrypha come from, and why is it >> parroted by so many people? >> >> AFAICT, the "performance" benefit due to compiler optimization >> is practically nil in real-world usage. >> >> In my experience the huge benefit of source-based distros such >> as Gentoo is elimination of the library dependency-hell that >> mires other binary-based distros. >> >> For many years I ran RedHat and then Mandrake. After a year or >> so, they became impossible to maintain because of library >> version conflicts. Every time I tried up upgrade an RPM package >> to fix a bug or security hole, it required a handful of >> libraries to be upgraded, but doing that would break a bunch of >> other RPMs for which upgrades weren't available. The solution >> was always to start building stuff from sources. Once you >> started doing that, the package manager would get upset because >> it doesn't know about some stuff that's installed (unless you >> built from source RPMs, which had another set of problems). >> >> The second benefit is that with Gentoo, upgrading a system >> actually works over the long-run. With RedHat/Mandrake, things >> would gradually deteriorate to the point where the system was >> unmaintainable, but attempting to upgrade between major >> releases was always futile. I've had Gentoo machines that have >> been upgraded for 4-5 years without any significant problems >> (failed hard-drives don't count). >> >> The third main benefit I've seen is that there are vastly more >> packages available for Gentoo. Putting together and >> maintaining an ebuild appears to take a lot less work than >> putting together and maintaining a binary RPM package. I've >> had far fewer problems with third party ebuilds than I did with >> third-party RPMs (on the rare occasions when I found one for >> some obscure application I wanted to run). Again, the solution >> was always "build from sources". >> >> Are the real benefits of Gentoo too hard to explain to the >> unwashed masses, so instead they're told the fairy tale about >> imporoved performance? >> >> >> > > Being a metadistribution, the concept of higher performance isn't quite > that much of a fairy tale. If you can easily configure your system to a > specific purpose, that would ideally lead to better performance, whether > it be due to the specialization of the system or at least a placebo > effect on the user. Gentoo is honestly my first linux system, so I don't > really have the experience of library conflicts of binary distros. > People in general will usually just want confirmation that something has > benefits over what they currently have, irregardless of evidence of > exactly why it is better, so that may be part of why so many supporters > "parrot" the same view regarding Gentoo. On the other hand, I just take > a lot of it as peace of mind in that all the responsibility for how my > system is running is directly mine, as opposed to being able to blame > someone who made a bad RPM. I like knowing any little factor of my > system and what it's doing. > > > I'll also add this info. I switched from Mandrake to Gentoo a long time ago. Mandrake was slow and took a good while to login and open larger apps. Gentoo on the exact same machine runs way faster. Login is a LOT faster, especially the second time around since it is cached, and apps start a lot faster too. You do have to have a set of sane FLAGS for this to work but it can be faster depending on how much time you spend looking up the correct settings. Dale :-) :-)