[gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Chuanwen Wu]

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Hi,
I want to burn CD/DVD under Gentoo, I have installed Xfce.
So, can anybody recommend some CD/DVD burning tools, which is better if does
not depend Gnome or KDE?

Thanks in advanced!

-- 
wcw

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Chuanwen Wu:

> I want to burn CD/DVD under Gentoo, I have installed Xfce.
> So, can anybody recommend some CD/DVD burning tools, which is better if
> does not depend Gnome or KDE?

dvd+rw-tools

Bye...

	Dirk
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 23 June 2008, Chuanwen Wu wrote:
> Hi,
> I want to burn CD/DVD under Gentoo, I have installed Xfce.
> So, can anybody recommend some CD/DVD burning tools, which is better
> if does not depend Gnome or KDE?

Have a look in $PORTDIR/app-cdr and $PORTDIR/xfce-extra

Lots of stuff there to play with from cdrdao to xfburn


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Philip Webb]

080623 Chuanwen Wu wrote:
> I want to burn CD/DVD under Gentoo, I have installed Xfce.
> can anybody recommend some CD/DVD burning tools,
> which is better if does not depend Gnome or KDE?

I still use the trusty old 'xcdroast' for CDs.

-- 
========================,,============================================
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com> wrote:

> Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Chuanwen Wu:
>
> > I want to burn CD/DVD under Gentoo, I have installed Xfce.
> > So, can anybody recommend some CD/DVD burning tools, which is better if
> > does not depend Gnome or KDE?
>
> dvd+rw-tools

...Does not support CDs.

For burning data CDs and DVDs, you in addition need mkisofs anyway.
Mkisofs is part of the cdrtools package which also includes cdrecord.
Cdrecord supports CDs, DVDs and BluRay media.

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday 23 June 2008, Chuanwen Wu wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I want to burn CD/DVD under Gentoo, I have installed Xfce.
> > So, can anybody recommend some CD/DVD burning tools, which is better
> > if does not depend Gnome or KDE?
>
> Have a look in $PORTDIR/app-cdr and $PORTDIR/xfce-extra
>
> Lots of stuff there to play with from cdrdao to xfburn

cdrdao has not been enhanced since many years now.
BTW: Could you tell me a feature from cdrdao which you really use and that
is not supported by cdrecorde?

xfburn is based on non-portable (linux only) code. If you ever like 
to use a different OS, you should know that you will not find this software.

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Joerg Schilling:
> Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com> wrote:
> > dvd+rw-tools
>
> ...Does not support CDs.

But has:

RDEPEND="virtual/cdrtools"

which will provide the missing parts.

Bye...

	Dirk
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Sebastian Günther]

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* Joerg Schilling (Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de) [23.06.08 11:09]:
> 
> xfburn is based on non-portable (linux only) code. If you ever like 
> to use a different OS, you should know that you will not find this software.
> 

Well, if he is asking such a question, I doubt he will switch OS any 
soon.

But, I think, Your crusade continues...

> Jörg
> 

so long
Sebastian

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 SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER         mailto:samson@guenther-roetgen.de

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 23 June 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday 23 June 2008, Chuanwen Wu wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > I want to burn CD/DVD under Gentoo, I have installed Xfce.
> > > So, can anybody recommend some CD/DVD burning tools, which is better
> > > if does not depend Gnome or KDE?
> >
> > Have a look in $PORTDIR/app-cdr and $PORTDIR/xfce-extra
> >
> > Lots of stuff there to play with from cdrdao to xfburn
>
> cdrdao has not been enhanced since many years now.
> BTW: Could you tell me a feature from cdrdao which you really use and that
> is not supported by cdrecorde?

he just gave a range and cdrdao comes in the alphabetical order before 
cdrecord.
>
> xfburn is based on non-portable (linux only) code. If you ever like
> to use a different OS, you should know that you will not find this
> software.

yeah, but this is a gentoo list and the user is using xfce.

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Volker Armin Hemmann <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:

> > cdrdao has not been enhanced since many years now.
> > BTW: Could you tell me a feature from cdrdao which you really use and that
> > is not supported by cdrecorde?
>
> he just gave a range and cdrdao comes in the alphabetical order before 
> cdrecord.

Mmmm, should this be an answer to my question?

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Sebastian Günther]

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* Joerg Schilling (Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de) [23.06.08 12:09]:
> Volker Armin Hemmann <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> 
> > > BTW: Could you tell me a feature from cdrdao which you really use and that
> > > is not supported by cdrecorde?
> >
> > he just gave a range and cdrdao comes in the alphabetical order before 
> > cdrecord.
> 
> Mmmm, should this be an answer to my question?
> 

Counter question: What feature of cdrecord do I need, that would justify 
the installation?

Oh wait, I have /usr/bin/cdrecord, it's a symlink to wodim. Is my system 
broken?

> Jörg
> 

Sebastian

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 23 June 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> > > cdrdao has not been enhanced since many years now.
> > > BTW: Could you tell me a feature from cdrdao which you really use
> > > and that is not supported by cdrecorde?
> >
> > he just gave a range and cdrdao comes in the alphabetical order
> > before cdrecord.
>
> Mmmm, should this be an answer to my question?

Volker's answer is correct, but not obviously so. I simply ran ls on the 
directory /var/portage/app-cdr and listed two well-known packages that 
showed up. The OP is looking for Xfce software, I figured he should 
look for himself and told him where to look.

To answer your question directly: My burning needs are very simple - 
cdrecord from cdrkit and k3b do everything I've ever needed and suit me 
just fine. Eg, I don't remember exactly when was the last time I burned 
a DVD but I do know I've never done it on any of my personal machines.

I use cdrkit because I'm sick of listening to eternal bickering about 
licensing issues. So I use the project whose license, and 
interpretation of the license, seemed to me to be the project that 
would make the pedantry just go away and not feature in my life.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 23 June 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> > > cdrdao has not been enhanced since many years now.
> > > BTW: Could you tell me a feature from cdrdao which you really use and
> > > that is not supported by cdrecorde?
> >
> > he just gave a range and cdrdao comes in the alphabetical order before
> > cdrecord.
>
> Mmmm, should this be an answer to my question?

in a way, yes. He gave a range and you went 'ballistic' on his mention of 
cdrdao. There was no recommendation or anything else and you demanded a list 
of features. Why should he or anybody do so? If he said 'use cdrdao' then your 
question would be rightly asked. But he didn't.
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Alan McKinnon:
> The OP is looking for Xfce software

Is he? He is _using_ XFCE and is _looking_ for something that doesn't depend 
on Gnome or KDE.

Bye...

	Dirk
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:38:07 +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:

> Is he? He is _using_ XFCE and is _looking_ for something that doesn't
> depend on Gnome or KDE.

More importantly, he is looking for a recommendation, not a list of
what's available, which I'm sure he could get for himself.

Unless the OP is short on resources, I'd say install K3b, kdelibs may use
a little drive space but it won't kill any kittens. If resources are that
short, use virtual/cdrecord and dvd+rw-tools.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

C:\DOS\SYSTEM\OS2\UTILITIES\DOCS\HELP\WHERE\THE\F$#%\AM\I???

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Chuanwen Wu]

Thank all you guys!

I will try dvd+rw-tools since it support both DVD and CD.

I have ever tried xfburn, but it seemed that it still had some problem
s: it couldn't  detected my TSSTcorp DVD driver and I still heard that
it couldn't  burning DVD yet.
I have Windows, and of course I can do buring there, but I just feel
sick to reboot  into Windows just for burning a CD/DVD.
-- 
wcw
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

"Chuanwen Wu" <wcw8410@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank all you guys!
>
> I will try dvd+rw-tools since it support both DVD and CD.

This is a missunderstanding:

cdrecord supports both CDs and DVDs.

dvd+rw-tools only supports DVDs

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Chuanwen Wu]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Joerg Schilling
<Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
> "Chuanwen Wu" <wcw8410@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank all you guys!
>>
>> I will try dvd+rw-tools since it support both DVD and CD.
>
> This is a missunderstanding:
>
> cdrecord supports both CDs and DVDs.
Where is cdrecord? I can't see it in the portage.
>
> dvd+rw-tools only supports DVDs
From here http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/
and what Dirk said, it depend on  cdrtools, so it can burning CDs now.
>
> Jörg
>
> --
>  EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
>       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)
>       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
>  URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
> --
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>



-- 
wcw

Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Chuanwen Wu:

> Where is cdrecord? I can't see it in the portage.

It's provided by "virtual/cdrtools" (either cdrtools or cdrkit).

Bye...

	Dirk
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

"Chuanwen Wu" <wcw8410@gmail.com> wrote:

>> cdrecord supports both CDs and DVDs.
> Where is cdrecord? I can't see it in the portage.

The official cdredcord source is here:

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/

Cdrecord started in January 1996 (12.5 years ago),
cdrcord added DVD support in February 1998 (10 years ago)
cdrecod addded Blu Ray support in summer 2007.

I know that cdrecord is on portage, but I don't know where.

Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks 
are full of bugs. In special: they come with extremely buggy mkisofs
variants and they all have incomplete and broken DVD support (because
the working original DVD support code has been completely relaced in 
the forks).

Cdrecord is known to work with all drives and media. Other software may
have problems with some drives or media.

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 23 June 2008, Chuanwen Wu wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Joerg Schilling
>
> <Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
> > "Chuanwen Wu" <wcw8410@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Thank all you guys!
> >>
> >> I will try dvd+rw-tools since it support both DVD and CD.
> >
> > This is a missunderstanding:
> >
> > cdrecord supports both CDs and DVDs.
>
> Where is cdrecord? I can't see it in the portage.

app-cdr/cdrtools
      Latest version available: 2.01.01_alpha41
      Latest version installed: 2.01.01_alpha40
      Size of downloaded files: [no/bad digest]
      Homepage:    http://cdrecord.berlios.de/
      Description: A set of tools for CD/DVD reading and recording, including 
cdrecord
      License:     GPL-2 LGPL-2.1 CDDL-Schily

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Schilling:

> Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks
> are full of bugs. In special: they come with extremely buggy mkisofs
> variants and they all have incomplete and broken DVD support (because
> the working original DVD support code has been completely relaced in
> the forks).

FUD or Fact?

Bye...

	Dirk

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> I use cdrkit because I'm sick of listening to eternal bickering about 
> licensing issues. So I use the project whose license, and 
> interpretation of the license, seemed to me to be the project that 
> would make the pedantry just go away and not feature in my life.

I am not sure whether you really intend to say this and if you did understand 
thing correctly.....

The license of the original cdrtools has been examined by specialized lawyers
and these lawyers did not see any license problem in the original software.

The license of the fork "cdrkit" has not been verified by experts. If you
follow the claims from the people behind "cdrkit" on how the GPL has to be 
interpreted for cdrtools, then cdrkit would be illegal.
This is because these people claim that GPLd software needs to be build with
a GPLd build system and this build system needs to be delivered with the source.
The "cdrkit project" however uses a 4 clause BSD build sytstem that is not 
delivered together with the source....

My question to you would be:

Do you like to support software like cdrkit that is published by people who 
attack other OSS projects?


If you like to get rid of the license debates, you need to help to prevent the
license attacks done by the people behind cdrkit. I am just a victim of these
attacks and the Linux users who are forced to live with > 50 unfixed bugs in the
fork are also victims of this attack.

Check the bug data bases from the Linux distributors who publish cdrkit instead 
of cdrtools and you will see that many serious bugs exist in the fork since more 
than a year and nobody is interested to fix the bugs. The original cdrtools 
software does not have known bugs. So why do you like use software with known 
bugs? 

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

"b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joerg, guys, please: not this pointless flame again. Please. Please.

If you like to help me against flame wars, you are of course welcome!

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[b.n.]

Joerg Schilling ha scritto:
> Do you like to support software like cdrkit that is published by people who 
> attack other OSS projects?
> 
> 
> If you like to get rid of the license debates, you need to help to prevent the
> license attacks done by the people behind cdrkit. I am just a victim of these
> attacks and the Linux users who are forced to live with > 50 unfixed bugs in the
> fork are also victims of this attack.
> 
> Check the bug data bases from the Linux distributors who publish cdrkit instead 
> of cdrtools and you will see that many serious bugs exist in the fork since more 
> than a year and nobody is interested to fix the bugs. The original cdrtools 
> software does not have known bugs. So why do you like use software with known 
> bugs? 

Joerg, guys, please: not this pointless flame again. Please. Please.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 23 June 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> My question to you would be:
>
> Do you like to support software like cdrkit that is published by
> people who attack other OSS projects?

Joerg,

Let me respond with a very close analogy, because this is not a yes/no 
answer.

I ride a great big stomping motorcycle. It's an adrenaline rush, just 
oozing vast amounts of power and torque. As motorcycles go, this is one 
of the better ones and there isn't a car on the road that comes close 
to this thing's ability to zoom away from traffic light into clear 
space.

I know someone else who rides a cheap, piece of crap, Chinese 125cc 
scooter. Maybe it's not crap, but that is my opinion of it. So I had a 
long conversation with this scooter owner extolling the virtues of big 
bikes, the increased safety of a more powerful engine and the thrill of 
984cc of mind-blowing torque.

All this fell on deaf ears. The answer I got was "dude, I'm happy you 
have the machine you want. I just want to get to work cheaply and beat 
the traffic. By the way, your solution costs 10 times what mine does to 
buy"... I had no answer to that - I was up against a don't care output 
and had mistakenly assumed it would of course be a Boolean.

See, CD software is close to your heart. It's not even remotely close to 
mine. At best, it's a nice to have. I don't care about the 50 bugs you 
so obviously care deeply about - I have never triggered them, they do 
not impact on my life in any significant way. So I simply do not care 
about that and am not likely to care much any time soon.

Continuing to use cdrkit affords me that luxury of not getting involved, 
so I can carry on blissfully not caring and instead devote my energies 
to the projects I do care about.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> Continuing to use cdrkit affords me that luxury of not getting involved, 
> so I can carry on blissfully not caring and instead devote my energies 
> to the projects I do care about.

Things are not as simple as you seem to believe.

You cannot stay off the conflict. If you use cdrkit, you at least indirectly
support the people who started the conflict and who still constantly spread 
wrong information on pretended "licensing issues".

The conflict will not go away before these people stop spreading incorrect 
claims.

I am working on Free and Open Software much longer than projects like Linux 
exist. It is a pity to see that people are taken for serious who started using 
Linux and other OSS projects ~ 5 years ago and who claim that I am against OSS.
I did not stop working on cdrtools, but the person who started the conflict
stoped working on cdrkit more than a year ago. Look at the bug reports and check
what has been done on cdrkit since then. So using cdrkit lso looks like riding 
a dead horse.

Do whatever you like but do not claim that you are not part of the conflict as 
long as you use cdrkit.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 24 June 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Continuing to use cdrkit affords me that luxury of not getting
> > involved, so I can carry on blissfully not caring and instead
> > devote my energies to the projects I do care about.
>
> Things are not as simple as you seem to believe.

Actually, they are exactly that simple. You have a disagreement with 
person X. I do not have the same disagreement with person X. 

[snip]

> Do whatever you like but do not claim that you are not part of the
> conflict as long as you use cdrkit.

Jörg, you appear to be making a fundamental error of assumption. It 
looks like you consider that simply because you think this matter 
important (and in your life it probably IS important), that therefore 
it must be important in mine. This is not true. In my life, your fight 
with the cdrkit people is very similar to the fights my 11 year old son 
and 6 year old stepdaughter have. They keep trying to get me to take 
sides and utterly and completely fail to comprehend why I do not do so. 

I recommend you continue to do whatever makes you happy. If that 
includes a dispute with a fork of your code, so be it.

But stop trying to tell me that I am somehow involved. I am not.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools? CDDL licensing?

[Stroller]

On 23 Jun 2008, at 19:54, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> ...
> The license of the original cdrtools has been examined by  
> specialized lawyers
> and these lawyers did not see any license problem in the original  
> software.


A bit of Googling lead me to a couple of articles which appear to  
indicate you chose to migrate your software from the GPL to the CDDL  
(or to a CDDL-alike license).

http://lwn.net/Articles/195167/
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=377109

Since I guess there's no point in hoping this "discussion" will simply  
go away, might I enquire out of curiosity why you decided to do this?

Stroller.

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[luis jure]

el 2008-06-23 a las 14:58 Joerg Schilling escribió:

> Cdrecord is known to work with all drives and media. Other software
> may have problems with some drives or media.

that's exactly my personal experience. i won't comment about license
issues, because although i always try to support "free" software i have
to admit that i understand little or nothing about legal issues.

but let me share my personal experience: last year i bought a shiny
brand new laptop. i was very happy with it until i tried to record cds
or dvds. about 80% of my attempts ended in the trash can. at first i
thought i had bought a defective lot of media, but when the same
happened with different types of media i began to think that my drive
was either defective or not well supported by linux. both alternatives
were quite depressing... 

after days of googling trying to find a solution, somehow i realized
that gentoo had installed a "fake" cdrecord instead of the "real" one.
i don't know how or why this happened. perhaps it was my fault but it
sure was not my intention. searching the gentoo site i found something
about license problems and how they had decided to replace it with a
different package and you could not even realize it. i erased the
ersatz, emerged the original cdrecord, and never had a problem again.
my drive was perfectly sane after all, and the media i bought was just
fine. 

sorry for the rant, but i'm still annoyed by that incident.
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jörg, you appear to be making a fundamental error of assumption. It 
> looks like you consider that simply because you think this matter 
> important (and in your life it probably IS important), that therefore 
> it must be important in mine. This is not true. In my life, your fight 
> with the cdrkit people is very similar to the fights my 11 year old son 
> and 6 year old stepdaughter have. They keep trying to get me to take 
> sides and utterly and completely fail to comprehend why I do not do so. 

If this was really not important to you, why do you send long replies?

I am trying to ignore the attacks from the people behind cdrkit and I 
hope that people realize that progress is only in the official project. 
I however need to inform people correctly when I see incorrect claims on
my projects.

If you like to live with the big number of bugs in the fork, go ahead, but
you only harm yourself.


Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[b.n.]

Joerg Schilling ha scritto:
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Jörg, you appear to be making a fundamental error of assumption. It 
>> looks like you consider that simply because you think this matter 
>> important (and in your life it probably IS important), that therefore 
>> it must be important in mine. This is not true. In my life, your fight 
>> with the cdrkit people is very similar to the fights my 11 year old son 
>> and 6 year old stepdaughter have. They keep trying to get me to take 
>> sides and utterly and completely fail to comprehend why I do not do so. 
> 
> If this was really not important to you, why do you send long replies?

Because we want to politely and cheerfully let you understand that this 
fuss about cdrtools/cdrkit is of interest mostly (if not only) for you 
here, and that keeping on this is just polluting the mailing list. And 
pollution on the mailing list is something, instead, we care about.

If cdrkit is slowly rotting, you'll be sure people will start notice it 
and (a)fix cdrkit (b)migrate back to cdrtools. Code speaks for itself. 
If it's significantly better, people will use it. So why bother? Just 
wait for the corpse of your enemy floating on the river. :)

> I am trying to ignore the attacks from the people behind cdrkit and I 
> hope that people realize that progress is only in the official project. 
> I however need to inform people correctly when I see incorrect claims on
> my projects.

Well, fine, but please recognize that it's better you stop there.

> If you like to live with the big number of bugs in the fork, go ahead, but
> you only harm yourself.

Probably you are right. Actually I use your cdrecord (just checked now), 
and I feel happy with it. And I am more than happy than you are working 
on it. And I thank you a lot, a lot, a lot. But again, Joerg, we just 
want to record our cds. Please, do not involve us on license catfights 
on a regular basis.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> wrote:

> Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Schilling:
>
> > Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks
> > are full of bugs. In special: they come with extremely buggy mkisofs
> > variants and they all have incomplete and broken DVD support (because
> > the working original DVD support code has been completely relaced in
> > the forks).
>
> FUD or Fact?

This way of asking does not need any comment: You are obviously trying to
spread FUD :-(

What Do you like to achive with this mail?


Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1225 bytes --]

Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Joerg Schilling:
> Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> wrote:
> > Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Schilling:
> > > Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks
> > > are full of bugs. In special: they come with extremely buggy mkisofs
> > > variants and they all have incomplete and broken DVD support (because
> > > the working original DVD support code has been completely relaced in
> > > the forks).
> >
> > FUD or Fact?
>
> This way of asking does not need any comment: You are obviously trying to
> spread FUD :-(

Huh? By asking wether what you state above is true or false I spread FUD?

> What Do you like to achive with this mail?

That you show evidence for your statements ("All known forks are full of 
bugs", "...they come with extremely buggy mkisofs...", etc.).

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
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[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com> wrote:

> Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Joerg Schilling:
> > Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs@online.de> wrote:
> > > Am Montag, 23. Juni 2008 schrieb Joerg Schilling:
> > > > Be careful not to use forks but only official code. All known forks
> > > > are full of bugs. In special: they come with extremely buggy mkisofs
> > > > variants and they all have incomplete and broken DVD support (because
> > > > the working original DVD support code has been completely relaced in
> > > > the forks).
> > >
> > > FUD or Fact?
> >
> > This way of asking does not need any comment: You are obviously trying to
> > spread FUD :-(
>
> Huh? By asking wether what you state above is true or false I spread FUD?

Your "question" was just an attempt to pass the underlying missinformation 
that I am not telling the truth.

You could save us a lot time if you did your homework and e.g. checked the
bug databases from the Linux distributors that currently by default deliver
cdrkit instead of cdrtools.

If you did this, you would know the exact list of bugs that calse problems....

Jörg

-- 
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       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Dirk Heinrichs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 958 bytes --]

Am Donnerstag, 26. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Joerg Schilling:

> Your "question" was just an attempt to pass the underlying
> missinformation that I am not telling the truth.

Interesting conclusion.

> You could save us a lot time if you did your homework and e.g. checked
> the bug databases from the Linux distributors that currently by default
> deliver cdrkit instead of cdrtools.

Why is it _my_ homework to proove _your_ statements?

> If you did this, you would know the exact list of bugs that calse
> problems....

But you state that you know that list already, why don't you tell us?

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
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Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
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[gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[»Q«]

In <4860f3f2.ymAUFfyQlp8koUnJ%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de>,
Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

> I am trying to ignore the attacks from the people behind cdrkit and I 
> hope that people realize that progress is only in the official
> project. I however need to inform people correctly when I see
> incorrect claims on my projects.

"Informing" by saying things like "all known forks are full of bugs"
doesn't help, as it's indistinguishable from FUD.  In fact, the more
you say it, the more it looks like FUD.

> If you like to live with the big number of bugs in the fork, go
> ahead, but you only harm yourself.

I've just read your outdated page
<http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html>.  Where you listed
specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine they'd
affect most users).  Most of what you cite as bugs are just features
they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they have since you
wrote that page).

-- 
»Q«
     Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.


--
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

»Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:

> I've just read your outdated page

It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development
in cdrkit. So I asume that  they did not add new bugs.

> <http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html>.  Where you listed
> specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine they'd
> affect most users).  Most of what you cite as bugs are just features
> they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they have since you
> wrote that page).

This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you are 
affected does not mean that you are not affected.

It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS won't read
your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem structure.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:41 +0200
Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

> »Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> > I've just read your outdated page
> 
> It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible
> development in cdrkit. So I asume that  they did not add new bugs.


Actually it's exactly as Joerg says.

If you would open the official site [1] of the project "cdrkit", you
would see:

     "2008/03/17 Cdrkit 1.1.7.1 has been released."

...but there is no such release at the place [2] I could find as
official repository.

[1] http://www.cdrkit.org/
[2] http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/?C=M;O=D




I've also made screen shots if it counts as proof:


(1) http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4417/cdrkit1ob1.png

My edits: two red marks
 - one to show the link leading to (2) 
 - one to show the claim there is a new version

======

(2) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3683/cdrkit2fo1.png

My edits: one red mark to show the link leading to (3) 

======

(3) http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3263/cdrkit3di4.png

My edits: one red mark to show the newest file in the directory

======


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Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Pielmeier]

Daniel Iliev schrieb:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:41 +0200
> Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:
> 
>> »Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I've just read your outdated page
>> It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible
>> development in cdrkit. So I asume that  they did not add new bugs.
> 
> 
> Actually it's exactly as Joerg says.
> 
> If you would open the official site [1] of the project "cdrkit", you
> would see:
> 
>      "2008/03/17 Cdrkit 1.1.7.1 has been released."
> 
> ...but there is no such release at the place [2] I could find as
> official repository.
> 
> [1] http://www.cdrkit.org/
> [2] http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/?C=M;O=D
> 

Just to correct a mistake. At http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is the release 
you are missing. There is even a newer version not listed at 
http://www.cdrkit.org/.

Funny thing is that the mirror http://cdrkit.org/releases/ has the newer 
releases than http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/.

Regards,

Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:14:24 +0200
Daniel Pielmeier <daniel.pielmeier@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Daniel Iliev schrieb:
> > On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:41 +0200
> > Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:
> > 
> >> »Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've just read your outdated page
> >> It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible
> >> development in cdrkit. So I asume that  they did not add new bugs.
> > 
> > 
> > Actually it's exactly as Joerg says.
> > 
> > If you would open the official site [1] of the project "cdrkit", you
> > would see:
> > 
> >      "2008/03/17 Cdrkit 1.1.7.1 has been released."
> > 
> > ...but there is no such release at the place [2] I could find as
> > official repository.
> > 
> > [1] http://www.cdrkit.org/
> > [2] http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/?C=M;O=D
> > 
> 
> Just to correct a mistake. At http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is the
> release you are missing. There is even a newer version not listed at 
> http://www.cdrkit.org/.
> 
> Funny thing is that the mirror http://cdrkit.org/releases/ has the
> newer releases than http://debburn.alioth.debian.org/.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Daniel


OK. It is my mistake. I admit it and I apologize.

Then it appears that Joerg is spreading FUD about the cdrkit project.


-- 
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Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> OK. It is my mistake. I admit it and I apologize.
>
> Then it appears that Joerg is spreading FUD about the cdrkit project.

I do not spread FUD. 

You should carefully check the history to understand that most of the changes
are speudo changes (like adding a space and later removing it again).

The latest release of cdrkit still has more bugs than the source they did take 
in september 2006. As they in addition did not add new features, the overall 
saldo of all activities since September 2006 is still negative.

All changes in cdrkit made since May 7th 2007 still sum up to less than I do in 
a lazy week. 

Jörg

-- 
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[gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[»Q«]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:46:41 +0200
Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

> »Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> > I've just read your outdated page  
> 
> It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible
> development in cdrkit. So I asume that  they did not add new bugs.

cdrkit 1.1.7.1 was released 17 March 2008.

cdrkit 1.1.8 is in portage and has been available from cdrkit.org 
since 25 May 2008.

> > <http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html>.  Where you
> > listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine
> > they'd affect most users).  Most of what you cite as bugs are just
> > features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they
> > have since you wrote that page).  
> 
> This is obviously FUD:

Nope, all of that was factual, though it's not worth it for me to list
the few entries that were specific enough for me to evaluate.  Only the
bugs you're *specific* about don't affect me.  In places where you are
more vague, I can't guess.  I'll just continue not to know.

> Just because you don't already know that you are affected does not
> mean that you are not affected.

I agree, about the ones that are vague.  If one affects me, I'll have to
wait until someone points it out to me and either explains or points to
an explanation.

> It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS
> won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem
> structure.

It'd be great if someone would point me to information about this
instead of just enjoying the prospect of it harming me.

I no longer expect you to provide any useful info, so I'll check out of
the thread now.  Good luck with your efforts to improve the situation,
if it needs improving. 

-- 
»Q«
     Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:47:31 +0200
Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

> 
> You should carefully check the history to understand that most of the
> changes are speudo changes (like adding a space and later removing it
> again).
> 


I beg to differ. I don't have any reason to do anything at all. It is
you who has to convince me that you are right. I did not ever send you
mail asking or telling you anything. It is you who sends unwanted mails
to advertise against cdrkit in favour of cdrtools to every thread about
optical media in the list. That is called spam.

The most annoying thing of all is that when you are asked to explain
your problem you act as if it was you who wants to be left alone and
the people are those who nag at you.

If it is so hard for you to have a normal dialog, then may I suggest
you to defend your cause in a different, less offensive way?

How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What
happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it
to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information.
Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to
post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would
absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public
list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature.

How about that?


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[b.n.]

Daniel Iliev ha scritto:
> How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What
> happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it
> to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information.
> Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to
> post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would
> absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public
> list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature.
> 
> How about that?

I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you do 
that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way possible?

It can't harm you, and it would help us understand what to do.

If you are reasonable, you should feel by now that there must be some 
problem on your part on efficiently communicating your position. It 
seems that, er, while you're very good in coding, communication is not 
your best playground. Therefore, if you need help on how to do that 
webpage, we would be more than happy to give humble advice.

Thanks,
m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:47:31 +0200
> Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:
>
> > 
> > You should carefully check the history to understand that most of the
> > changes are speudo changes (like adding a space and later removing it
> > again).
> > 
>
>
> I beg to differ. I don't have any reason to do anything at all. It is
> you who has to convince me that you are right. I did not ever send you
> mail asking or telling you anything. It is you who sends unwanted mails
> to advertise against cdrkit in favour of cdrtools to every thread about
> optical media in the list. That is called spam.

If you are not interested in reality but only in what people pretend to do,
then a further discussion with you does not seem to be useful.

Jörg

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 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

"b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

> Daniel Iliev ha scritto:
> > How about if you remake your site and explain everything there. What
> > happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide evidence. Remake it
> > to be clear with simple sentences and easy for finding the information.
> > Then provide means (as web forum, mailing list etc) for the visitors to
> > post their comments and questions. After all that is ready it would
> > absolutely acceptable to participate in this and every other public
> > list as a normal member and put links to your site in your signature.
> > 
> > How about that?
>
> I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you do 
> that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way possible?

I pointed you to the FAQ and I asked you to tell me what questions remain 
unanswered.

I am sorry but I can only extend information if people tell me which 
information they like to see.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:00:39 +0200
Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

> "b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Daniel Iliev ha scritto:
> > > How about if you remake your site and explain everything there.
> > > What happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide
> > > evidence. Remake it to be clear with simple sentences and easy
> > > for finding the information. Then provide means (as web forum,
> > > mailing list etc) for the visitors to post their comments and
> > > questions. After all that is ready it would absolutely acceptable
> > > to participate in this and every other public list as a normal
> > > member and put links to your site in your signature.
> > > 
> > > How about that?
> >
> > I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you
> > do that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way
> > possible?
> 
> I pointed you to the FAQ and I asked you to tell me what questions
> remain unanswered.


Sorry, never saw the message in which you ask what more info to
publish. Perhaps I didn't receive it.

> 
> I am sorry but I can only extend information if people tell me which 
> information they like to see.
>

Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but
let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information
for the following events in chronological order:

 - When the first contact with the attackers took place and what was
the reason for that contact
 
 - When the first attack took place and what (you suppose if you don't
know for sure) was the reason for the attack. Describe the attack
itself - what were the actions of those who attacked you

 - When other attacks (if any) took place. Describe them.

 - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why
there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the
most interesting part)

 - When the fork was launched

 - The exact statement of the lawyers you consulted

 - Any evidence (e-mails, posts to web forums, blogs,
publications, etc) or reference to that evidence that you can
provide


That's what I could think off for the moment, but I'm sure others
will fill in the gaps I've left.


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[brullo nulla]

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:00:39 +0200
> Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:
>
>> "b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Daniel Iliev ha scritto:
>> > > How about if you remake your site and explain everything there.
>> > > What happened (chronologically and in detail) and provide
>> > > evidence. Remake it to be clear with simple sentences and easy
>> > > for finding the information. Then provide means (as web forum,
>> > > mailing list etc) for the visitors to post their comments and
>> > > questions. After all that is ready it would absolutely acceptable
>> > > to participate in this and every other public list as a normal
>> > > member and put links to your site in your signature.
>> > >
>> > > How about that?
>> >
>> > I want that too. I back the proposal of Iliev. Joerg, why don't you
>> > do that so that you can settle all this in the most informative way
>> > possible?
>>
>> I pointed you to the FAQ and I asked you to tell me what questions
>> remain unanswered.
>
>
> Sorry, never saw the message in which you ask what more info to
> publish. Perhaps I didn't receive it.
>
>>
>> I am sorry but I can only extend information if people tell me which
>> information they like to see.
>>
>
> Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but
> let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information
> for the following events in chronological order:
>
>  - When the first contact with the attackers took place and what was
> the reason for that contact
>
>  - When the first attack took place and what (you suppose if you don't
> know for sure) was the reason for the attack. Describe the attack
> itself - what were the actions of those who attacked you
>
>  - When other attacks (if any) took place. Describe them.
>
>  - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why
> there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the
> most interesting part)
>
>  - When the fork was launched
>
>  - The exact statement of the lawyers you consulted
>
>  - Any evidence (e-mails, posts to web forums, blogs,
> publications, etc) or reference to that evidence that you can
> provide
>
>
> That's what I could think off for the moment, but I'm sure others
> will fill in the gaps I've left.
>

Let me add: do not only *describe*. Post all *sources* that you have.
Emails, chats, whatever. Otherwise it's just your word vs someone
else, and we cannot decide. Give people the *facts*, and everything
will come up by itself.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but
> let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information
> for the following events in chronological order:

Please explain why you don't read the FAQ?

All your questions are answered in the FAQ.

If you don't read the available information, it seems that you like to 
turn this thread into a thread where you spread your FUD.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[brullo nulla]

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Joerg Schilling
<Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
> Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually you can figure out which are the most FAQ from this thread, but
>> let me help you for the start. Please, publish detailed information
>> for the following events in chronological order:
>
> Please explain why you don't read the FAQ?
>
> All your questions are answered in the FAQ.
>
> If you don't read the available information, it seems that you like to
> turn this thread into a thread where you spread your FUD.

The FAQ (I assume you're talking about
http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html ) only contain
basic information on your side, almost without a single reference that
shows me the actual full text of the email exchanges etc. supporting
what you say. The FAQ is not in chronological order and it is even
self-contradicting in chronological details (e.g. it starts with "In
autumn 2005 and early spring 2006, a group of Debian maintainers
started to attack the cdrtools project. The attacks have been based on
the fact that cdrtools was licensed under the GPL. " then, in the
final part of the document, you talk about the UTF story: " In fact,
this happened around y2004 [...] Now these people have been in trouble
and needed an excuse for their behavior." -from this it seems implicit
the problems started in 2004). Only explanation you give for all what
was happening is a commercial-distributions-are-evil conspiracy theory
(which maybe is true, but I am again waiting for evidence -the theory
is quite weak, since forking an essential desktop software seems *much
worse* than rewriting UTF8 support, and they could have inserted their
unofficial patch into their packages even if you refused it upstream,
if they felt their UTF8 patch was important).

Anyway, I'm sure you can fix the FAQ and provide the full disclosed
evidence, and everyone will be happier.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Heiko Nock]

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 09:46:41PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:

> > I've just read your outdated page
> It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development
> in cdrkit. 

Not visible to you. cdrkit-1.1.8 at http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is
dated 25.05.2008. It would be prudent for them to bring their website
up-to-date, though.

> So I asume that they did not add new bugs.

Maybe you should assume less and research more.

> > <http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html>.  Where you
> > listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine
> > they'd affect most users).  Most of what you cite as bugs are just
> > features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they
> > have since you wrote that page).
> This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you
> are affected does not mean that you are not affected.

Of course not. Even the linux-kernel mailing-list hasn't seen your
light, yet.

> It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS
> won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem
> structure.

It would be fun if you would finally stop trolling forums, newsgroups
and mailing-lists and keep your FUD and ego problems to yourself. You
obviously take it as a personal insult that cdrtools was snubbed by
some distributions and that somebody else is working on a replacement.
Your constant ridicule and insults of a project you shouldn't care
about at all is very telling, considering the alleged superiority of
your own project.

Thankfully, the GPL allows forks to eventually get rid of project
leaders like you.

-- 
>P.S. der neue Automat da oben ist echt ein Scherzkeks. Will Noten
>annehmen hat aber keinen Schlitz dafür.
probier doch mal, was zu singen, vielleicht hat er ja ein Mikrofon
	-- Matthias Dingeldein in de.etc.bahn.misc
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Matt Harrison]

Heiko Nock wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 09:46:41PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> 
>>> I've just read your outdated page
>> It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible development
>> in cdrkit. 
> 
> Not visible to you. cdrkit-1.1.8 at http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is
> dated 25.05.2008. It would be prudent for them to bring their website
> up-to-date, though.
> 
>> So I asume that they did not add new bugs.
> 
> Maybe you should assume less and research more.
> 
>>> <http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html>.  Where you
>>> listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine
>>> they'd affect most users).  Most of what you cite as bugs are just
>>> features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they
>>> have since you wrote that page).
>> This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you
>> are affected does not mean that you are not affected.
> 
> Of course not. Even the linux-kernel mailing-list hasn't seen your
> light, yet.
> 
>> It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS
>> won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem
>> structure.
> 
> It would be fun if you would finally stop trolling forums, newsgroups
> and mailing-lists and keep your FUD and ego problems to yourself. You
> obviously take it as a personal insult that cdrtools was snubbed by
> some distributions and that somebody else is working on a replacement.
> Your constant ridicule and insults of a project you shouldn't care
> about at all is very telling, considering the alleged superiority of
> your own project.
> 
> Thankfully, the GPL allows forks to eventually get rid of project
> leaders like you.
> 

I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this thread
die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3 days and
frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to the ML.

I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the more
mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss any
benefit of this thread continuing.

Just want to help keep this list with its feet on the ground :)

--
Matt
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Matt Harrison]

Matt Harrison wrote:
> Heiko Nock wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 09:46:41PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
>>
>>>> I've just read your outdated page
>>> It is not outdated. Since more than a year, there is no visible 
>>> development
>>> in cdrkit. 
>>
>> Not visible to you. cdrkit-1.1.8 at http://cdrkit.org/releases/ is
>> dated 25.05.2008. It would be prudent for them to bring their website
>> up-to-date, though.
>>
>>> So I asume that they did not add new bugs.
>>
>> Maybe you should assume less and research more.
>>
>>>> <http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html>.  Where you
>>>> listed specific bugs, I see they don't affect me (and can't imagine
>>>> they'd affect most users).  Most of what you cite as bugs are just
>>>> features they haven't implemented yet (and for all I know, they
>>>> have since you wrote that page).
>>> This is obviously FUD: Just because you don't already know that you
>>> are affected does not mean that you are not affected.
>>
>> Of course not. Even the linux-kernel mailing-list hasn't seen your
>> light, yet.
>>
>>> It would be fun to see you in 5 years after your then current OS
>>> won't read your DVDs anymore because of the bugs in the filesystem
>>> structure.
>>
>> It would be fun if you would finally stop trolling forums, newsgroups
>> and mailing-lists and keep your FUD and ego problems to yourself. You
>> obviously take it as a personal insult that cdrtools was snubbed by
>> some distributions and that somebody else is working on a replacement.
>> Your constant ridicule and insults of a project you shouldn't care
>> about at all is very telling, considering the alleged superiority of
>> your own project.
>>
>> Thankfully, the GPL allows forks to eventually get rid of project
>> leaders like you.
>>
> 
> I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this thread
> die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3 days and
> frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to the ML.
> 
> I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the more
> mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss any
> benefit of this thread continuing.
> 
> Just want to help keep this list with its feet on the ground :)
> 
> -- 
> Matt

Sorry, maybe my reply was actually destined for the "CD ROM does not
play audio CD's" thread, but I think it goes for both.

*hides under a stone*

--
Matt
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:01:59 +0200
> Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:
> 
> 
> > What people with english mothertonge believe is a courtesy, is
> > usually seen as a underlying attack by Germans. Try to just be
> > direct and there will be less missunderstanding.
> 
 

I'll be as direct as possible. Please, do the same.


I've read your site but I could not find the info I'm looking for.
Please, quote the following two lines and provide the relevant text
under each of them.

====================

Line 1: Why do you think there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL?

====================

Line 2: Full quotation of the lawyers' conclusion

====================




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Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll be as direct as possible. Please, do the same.
>
>
> I've read your site but I could not find the info I'm looking for.
> Please, quote the following two lines and provide the relevant text
> under each of them.
>
> ====================
>
> Line 1: Why do you think there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL?
>
> ====================
>
> Line 2: Full quotation of the lawyers' conclusion
>
> ====================

Why do you start a new round and why are you now asking for completely
different things? 

Did you read the GPL to understand what the GPL allows?

No non-GPL source is based on or derived from GPL code.

If you claim that there is a problem, it would be _you_ who needs to prove this 
claim. 

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[b.n.]

Joerg Schilling ha scritto:
> Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'll be as direct as possible. Please, do the same.
>>
>>
>> I've read your site but I could not find the info I'm looking for.
>> Please, quote the following two lines and provide the relevant text
>> under each of them.
>>
>> ====================
>>
>> Line 1: Why do you think there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL?
>>
>> ====================
>>
>> Line 2: Full quotation of the lawyers' conclusion
>>
>> ====================
> 
> Why do you start a new round and why are you now asking for completely
> different things? 

He's not asking different things.
Quotes from his mail:
" - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why
there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the
most interesting part)"

" - The exact statement of the lawyers you consulted"

Now, if you want to be taken seriously, please answer to these 
questions. We have asked them several times. Why do you dance around 
them and never answer them? They should be very easy to answer, if your 
position is so solid.

> Did you read the GPL to understand what the GPL allows?
> 
> No non-GPL source is based on or derived from GPL code.
> 
> If you claim that there is a problem, it would be _you_ who needs to prove this 
> claim. 

What do you not understand of the word "explain", Joerg?

m.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[b.n.]

Matt Harrison ha scritto:
> I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this thread
> die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3 days and
> frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to the ML.
> 
> I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the more
> mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss any
> benefit of this thread continuing.

I disagree. CD/DVD burning is an important piece of software for a free 
system. It has no little importance to understand what software of this 
kind can be distributed, and how, and if there are problems.

Maybe the Gentoo mailing list is not the best place to discuss that, but 
since mr.Schilling is here, and the discussion started, better go on 
with it until a solution comes out. At least, next time this discussion 
comes up, we hope to provide a quick link and settle the question. So 
let's chase this thread to the end, once for all, if possible.

m.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:25:16 +0200
Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

> 
> Why do you start a new round and why are you now asking for completely
> different things? 


I'm not asking different things. The question about the licenses is
the most important for me and I've asked that same question all the
time. It's just that now for the first time you partially gave an
answer.


> No non-GPL source is based on or derived from GPL code.


OK. This is close to what I'm asking, but not exactly. Anyways, I'm glad
to see you finally participating in this discussion.

Let me make my question even more clear with an oversimplified example:



You have written the program prog-a.c and published it on your site
under the GNU GPL. 

I have _independently_ written the prog-b.c.

Nex, I've found your program and liked it. I decide that your prog-a.c
and my prog-b.c serve a common purpose and they complement one another. 

The question is if I can take your source (prog-a.c) from your site, put
it into the same directory with my source (prog-b.c), make an archive
of that directory and distribute the archive under CDDL?

I think it is forbidden, because "prog-a.c" is published under
the GNU GPL, which means you give me the right to distribute your work
only under terms of the GNU GPL.


Am I wrong?


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:13:51 +0200
"b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

> Matt Harrison ha scritto:
> > I think it would be in everyone's best interests if we let this
> > thread die now, I've been reading this thread for the past 2 or 3
> > days and frankly, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything of use to
> > the ML.
> > 
> > I don't want to get involved or takes anyone's side, but maybe the
> > more mature readers can just let it go :) I doubt anyone will miss
> > any benefit of this thread continuing.
> 
> I disagree. CD/DVD burning is an important piece of software for a
> free system. It has no little importance to understand what software
> of this kind can be distributed, and how, and if there are problems.
> 
> Maybe the Gentoo mailing list is not the best place to discuss that,
> but since mr.Schilling is here, and the discussion started, better go
> on with it until a solution comes out. At least, next time this
> discussion comes up, we hope to provide a quick link and settle the
> question. So let's chase this thread to the end, once for all, if
> possible.
> 
> m.
> 
 
Absolutely. Otherwise we would have wasted out time for nothing and
after a while it will start again. I believe it is best to go to the
bottom of this discussion now, so this whole nightmare won't repeat
itself again.


-- 
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Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

"brullo nulla" <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

> The FAQ (I assume you're talking about
> http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/linux-dist.html ) only contain
> basic information on your side, almost without a single reference that
> shows me the actual full text of the email exchanges etc. supporting
> what you say. The FAQ is not in chronological order and it is even
> self-contradicting in chronological details (e.g. it starts with "In

While the attacks from Debian have all been self contradicting, my text is not.
It seems that you did not read it correctly. Please read it again....

> autumn 2005 and early spring 2006, a group of Debian maintainers
> started to attack the cdrtools project. The attacks have been based on
> the fact that cdrtools was licensed under the GPL. " then, in the

The private attacks from Bloch in 2004 have been trolling because of the 
broken UTF-8 support now also fopund in cdrkit. The attacks
from Debian in Autumn 2005 have been GPL based. Is it so hard to read my 
text?

> final part of the document, you talk about the UTF story: " In fact,
> this happened around y2004 [...] Now these people have been in trouble
> and needed an excuse for their behavior." -from this it seems implicit
> the problems started in 2004). Only explanation you give for all what
> was happening is a commercial-distributions-are-evil conspiracy theory
> (which maybe is true, but I am again waiting for evidence -the theory
> is quite weak, since forking an essential desktop software seems *much
> worse* than rewriting UTF8 support, and they could have inserted their
> unofficial patch into their packages even if you refused it upstream,
> if they felt their UTF8 patch was important).

There _is_ an evil conspiracy at least on Suse. Suse told me that they cannot 
use unmodified original software and they need to modify my software.

If you compare my original software and the modified version from Suse, you will
find that the unmodified original works out of the box on suse while the suse 
variant does not work at all.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de     (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

"b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

> He's not asking different things.
> Quotes from his mail:
> " - When you changed the license. For what reason. Explain, please, why
> there is no problem to mix GPL with CDDL (for me personally it is the
> most interesting part)"

> Now, if you want to be taken seriously, please answer to these 
> questions. We have asked them several times. Why do you dance around 
> them and never answer them? They should be very easy to answer, if your 
> position is so solid.

I have answered this question many times. 


As the question has the underlying implication that ther emight be a problem, I 
encourage you to first explain why _you_ believe that there might be a problem.
It is much easier to confute a wrong claim than to explain why ther is 
obviously no problem.

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] CD/DVD burning tools?

[Enrico Weigelt]

... understanding is a three edged sword ...

;-o

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

> You have written the program prog-a.c and published it on your site
> under the GNU GPL. 
>
> I have _independently_ written the prog-b.c.
>
> Nex, I've found your program and liked it. I decide that your prog-a.c
> and my prog-b.c serve a common purpose and they complement one another. 
>
> The question is if I can take your source (prog-a.c) from your site, put
> it into the same directory with my source (prog-b.c), make an archive
> of that directory and distribute the archive under CDDL?

Why do you come up with a claim that is _completely_ unrelated to cdrtools?

I am not a lawyer. If you like to get general legal advise, go to a lawyer!

Do you have any question related to cdrtools?

Jörg

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 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Daniel Iliev]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:30:11 +0200
Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

> Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > You have written the program prog-a.c and published it on your site
> > under the GNU GPL. 
> >
> > I have _independently_ written the prog-b.c.
> >
> > Nex, I've found your program and liked it. I decide that your
> > prog-a.c and my prog-b.c serve a common purpose and they complement
> > one another. 
> >
> > The question is if I can take your source (prog-a.c) from your
> > site, put it into the same directory with my source (prog-b.c),
> > make an archive of that directory and distribute the archive under
> > CDDL?
> 
> Why do you come up with a claim that is _completely_ unrelated to
> cdrtools?


Claim!? I was merely asking a question.
Completely unrelated!? How about this:

mkisofs.c:
/*
 * Program mkisofs.c - generate iso9660 filesystem  based upon directory
 * tree on hard disk.
 *
 * Written by Eric Youngdale (1993).
 *
 * Copyright 1993 Yggdrasil Computing, Incorporated
 * Copyright (c) 1999,2000-2007 J. Schilling
 *
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
 * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
 * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option)
 * any later version.
 *


So, you have used other people's GPLd work in your cdrtools project
and CDDLd your own work in the same project.

... Completely unrelated? LOL

> 
> I am not a lawyer. If you like to get general legal advise, go to a
> lawyer!

Well, you're not a lawyer, but Novell and RedHat have lawyers and I
believe they did not drop cdrtools in favour to cdrkit for technical
reasons. After all you are the one convincing people all the time in
the technical superiority of cdrtools.

> 
> Do you have any question related to cdrtools?
> 

No, not really. Not any more.


-- 
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Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Joerg Schilling]

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Why do you come up with a claim that is _completely_ unrelated to
> > cdrtools?
>
>
> Claim!? I was merely asking a question.
> Completely unrelated!? How about this:

I recommend you to first inform yourself before asking in a way that just 
verifies that you don't know what you are talking about.

This is where I cannot help you. You first need to do this homework yourself.
After you know what you are talking about, I am sure you will not ask anymore.

The cdrtools source comes with a lot of information that would help you if you 
read.

Your mistake is to blindly follow the FUD from Eduard Bloch instead of first 
reading the facts. A good starting point is the file COPYING....

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]

[Daniel Iliev]

Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention.

Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing
advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against you.


I'm done with you and your product.


==============================================

localhost ~ # emerge -C cdrtools ; emerge -1 cdrkit

[CUT]

 app-cdr/cdrtools
    selected: 2.01.01_alpha34 
   protected: none 
     omitted: none 

>>> 'Selected' packages are slated for removal.
>>> 'Protected' and 'omitted' packages will not be removed.

>>> Unmerging app-cdr/cdrtools-2.01.01_alpha34...
No package files given... Grabbing a set.

[ CUT ]

<<<          obj /usr/include/align.h
<<<          obj /usr/bin/readcd
<<<          obj /usr/bin/mkisofs
<<<          obj /usr/bin/isovfy
<<<          obj /usr/bin/isoinfo
<<<          obj /usr/bin/isodump
<<<          obj /usr/bin/devdump
<<<          obj /usr/bin/cdrecord
<<<          obj /usr/bin/cdda2wav
<<<          obj /etc/default/rscsi.dfl
<<<          obj /etc/default/cdrecord.dfl

[CUT]



Calculating dependencies  ...
.. done!

>>> Emerging (1 of 1) app-cdr/cdrkit-1.1.6 to /

[CUT]

>>> Merging app-cdr/cdrkit-1.1.6 to /
--- /etc/
>>> /etc/wodim.conf
>>> /etc/netscsid.conf
--- /usr/
--- /usr/sbin/
>>> /usr/sbin/netscsid
--- /usr/bin/
>>> /usr/bin/readmult
>>> /usr/bin/devdump
>>> /usr/bin/icedax
>>> /usr/bin/pitchplay
>>> /usr/bin/readom
>>> /usr/bin/wodim
>>> /usr/bin/cdrecord -> /usr/bin/wodim
>>> /usr/bin/isovfy
>>> /usr/bin/isoinfo
>>> /usr/bin/genisoimage
>>> /usr/bin/cdda2ogg
>>> /usr/bin/isodebug
>>> /usr/bin/cdda2mp3
>>> /usr/bin/readcd -> /usr/bin/readom
>>> /usr/bin/isodump
>>> /usr/bin/dirsplit

[CUT]


>>> No packages selected for removal by clean
>>> Auto-cleaning packages...

>>> No outdated packages were found on your system.
 * GNU info directory index is up-to-date.

==============================================


CHEERS!


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools?

[Sebastian Günther]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 559 bytes --]

* Joerg Schilling (Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de) [01.07.08 10:50]:
> 
> There _is_ an evil conspiracy at least on Suse. Suse told me that they cannot 
> use unmodified original software and they need to modify my software.
> 

But that's not an evil conspiracy against you, that's the normal policy 
of SuSe: they have to modify everything until it is broken.
 
I would not care too much about them...

Sebastian

-- 
 " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. "      Karl Marx

 SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER         mailto:samson@guenther-roetgen.de

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]

[Joerg Schilling]

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention.
>
> Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing
> advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against you.

You ddid by accident remove cdrtools instead of the crap.

But I can live without problems if you stop sending incorrect claims about 
cdrtools!

Jörg

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 03 July 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention.
> >
> > Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing
> > advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against
> > you.
>
> You ddid by accident remove cdrtools instead of the crap.

Joerg:

shut up. right now.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CD/DVD burning tools - [I'm done with this crap]

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Joerg Schilling <Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
> Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Joerg, as far as I can tell you need medical attention.
> >
> > Please, from now on do not annoy me with unwanted e-mail containing
> > advertisements of cdrtools or information about the attacks against you.
> 
> You ddid by accident remove cdrtools instead of the crap.

damn, dont feed the trolls !


cu
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
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