[gentoo-user] Can't mount NTFS read-write

[gentoo-user] Can't mount NTFS read-write

[Stroller]

Hi guys,

It's kinda late by my erratic bodyclock, so I'm assuming I'm doing  
something stupid.  Can anyone slap me with a kipper, please?

(Or should I be using the fuse NTFS driver?)

Stroller.


$ ls -ld /mnt/foo/
drwxrwx--- 2 root users 48 Aug  1  2007 /mnt/foo/
$ sudo mount -v /dev/sda2 /mnt/foo/ -o uid=stroller,umask=0000,rw
mount: you didn't specify a filesystem type for /dev/sda2
        I will try type ntfs
/dev/sda2 on /mnt/foo type ntfs (rw,uid=1000,umask=0000)
$ touch /mnt/foo/foo
touch: cannot touch `/mnt/foo/foo': Read-only file system
$ sudo !!
sudo touch /mnt/foo/foo
touch: cannot touch `/mnt/foo/foo': Read-only file system
$ ls -ld /mnt/foo/
dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root 12288 Mar 11 19:09 /mnt/foo/
$ ls -l /mnt/foo/ | head -n 5
total 1057852
dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 May 19  2007 $VAULT$.AVG
dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 Oct  7  2006 101_CD
-r-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 Aug 12  2004 AUTOEXEC.BAT
dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 Apr 10  2007 CETLB
$ uname -a
Linux emachine 2.6.23-gentoo-r3 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jan 25 09:11:36  
GMT 2008 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
$ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep -i ntfs
CONFIG_NTFS_FS=y
# CONFIG_NTFS_DEBUG is not set
CONFIG_NTFS_RW=y
$ 
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Can't mount NTFS read-write

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 402 bytes --]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:33:09 +0000, Stroller wrote:

> It's kinda late by my erratic bodyclock, so I'm assuming I'm doing  
> something stupid.  Can anyone slap me with a kipper, please?

Don't try to write with the in-kernel NTFS driver.

> (Or should I be using the fuse NTFS driver?)

Yes, most definitely.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Anything is good and useful if it's made of chocolate.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Can't mount NTFS read-write

[Stroller]

On 15 Mar 2008, at 09:48, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:33:09 +0000, Stroller wrote:
>
>> It's kinda late by my erratic bodyclock, so I'm assuming I'm doing
>> something stupid.  Can anyone slap me with a kipper, please?
>
> Don't try to write with the in-kernel NTFS driver.
>
>> (Or should I be using the fuse NTFS driver?)
>
> Yes, most definitely.

Thanks!

Stroller.
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Can't mount NTFS read-write

[Florian Philipp]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 506 bytes --]


On Sat, 2008-03-15 at 09:48 +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:33:09 +0000, Stroller wrote:
> 
> > It's kinda late by my erratic bodyclock, so I'm assuming I'm doing  
> > something stupid.  Can anyone slap me with a kipper, please?
> 
> Don't try to write with the in-kernel NTFS driver.
> 
> > (Or should I be using the fuse NTFS driver?)
> 
> Yes, most definitely.
> 
> 

By the way: Which one is better (or are they the same?): ntfs-3g or
ntfsprogs with USE="fuse"?

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Can't mount NTFS read-write

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 404 bytes --]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:40:11 +0100, Florian Philipp wrote:

> By the way: Which one is better (or are they the same?): ntfs-3g or
> ntfsprogs with USE="fuse"?

ntfs3g is the driver, ntfsprogs contains the mkfs, resize, fsck etc.
programs, the fuse USE flag enables support for fuse filesystems.

In short, you need both.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

CAUTION: Do not install prior to installation.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Can't mount NTFS read-write

[Chris Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

ntfs-3g is better then the kernel ntfs drivers

Stroller wrote:
| Hi guys,
|
| It's kinda late by my erratic bodyclock, so I'm assuming I'm doing
| something stupid.  Can anyone slap me with a kipper, please?
|
| (Or should I be using the fuse NTFS driver?)
|
| Stroller.
|
|
| $ ls -ld /mnt/foo/
| drwxrwx--- 2 root users 48 Aug  1  2007 /mnt/foo/
| $ sudo mount -v /dev/sda2 /mnt/foo/ -o uid=stroller,umask=0000,rw
| mount: you didn't specify a filesystem type for /dev/sda2
|        I will try type ntfs
| /dev/sda2 on /mnt/foo type ntfs (rw,uid=1000,umask=0000)
| $ touch /mnt/foo/foo
| touch: cannot touch `/mnt/foo/foo': Read-only file system
| $ sudo !!
| sudo touch /mnt/foo/foo
| touch: cannot touch `/mnt/foo/foo': Read-only file system
| $ ls -ld /mnt/foo/
| dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root 12288 Mar 11 19:09 /mnt/foo/
| $ ls -l /mnt/foo/ | head -n 5
| total 1057852
| dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 May 19  2007 $VAULT$.AVG
| dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 Oct  7  2006 101_CD
| -r-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 Aug 12  2004 AUTOEXEC.BAT
| dr-xr-xr-x 1 stroller root          0 Apr 10  2007 CETLB
| $ uname -a
| Linux emachine 2.6.23-gentoo-r3 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jan 25 09:11:36 GMT
| 2008 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
| $ zcat /proc/config.gz | grep -i ntfs
| CONFIG_NTFS_FS=y
| # CONFIG_NTFS_DEBUG is not set
| CONFIG_NTFS_RW=y
| $
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH28Z68hUIAnGfls4RAlWkAJwLUdWHL1RKRpkyXH4NGvQOru1vMgCbB5bl
DnruPyTtaiahjeTY8W83mZY=
=oC3h
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Chris Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH28bX8hUIAnGfls4RAvPaAJ9iVi3RdAD798CYdMQJC0AsGuNjIQCgiRD/
/WHaJPY2UjnYra6iiPC9yHQ=
=CWDr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Dale]

Chris Brennan wrote:
> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?

We got this one.  I saw one other one too. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Chris Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



Dale wrote:
| Chris Brennan wrote:
|> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
|
| We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
| Dale
|
| :-)  :-)

Ya but you didn't answer my question :D
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH28wO8hUIAnGfls4RArQ+AJ9DrM5N04BiAqd7M6IidiRviZ3YiwCfQb6N
vYPdYR9en8+OVJ5h0mRY+Qs=
=kxiB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Dale]

Chris Brennan wrote:
>
>
> Dale wrote:
> | Chris Brennan wrote:
> |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
> |
> | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
> | Dale
> |
> | :-)  :-)
>
> Ya but you didn't answer my question :D

Sometimes the mail server filters them out.  I read that ?gmail? and a 
few others do that.  Not sure why or how to over come it tho.  Somewhat 
common from my reading. 

Dale

:-)  :-)
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Norberto Bensa]

Chris Brennan wrote:
> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?

You seem to be using google for mx... ;-)



-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 15 March 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
> Dale wrote:
> | Chris Brennan wrote:
> |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
> |
> | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
> | Dale
> |
> | :-)  :-)
>
> Ya but you didn't answer my question :D

The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same address 
as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any list run by a 
non-idiot (like this one)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Ric de France]

On 16/03/2008, Dale <dalek1967@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Sometimes the mail server filters them out.  I read that ?gmail? and a
>  few others do that.  Not sure why or how to over come it tho.  Somewhat
>  common from my reading.

I concur with that... gmail seems to filter out duplicates from all my
mail lists...

...Ric
-- 
Ric de France
Ph: +61412945554 (international) or 0412945554 (Australia)
 ==> Do you, uh... Gentoo? Gentoooo-hooo!! <==
==> http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml <==
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Chris Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



Norberto Bensa wrote:
| Chris Brennan wrote:
|> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
|
| You seem to be using google for mx... ;-)
|
|
|

Indeed I am, appeears to be the only reliable free mail service I have
access to at the moment .... so now I will pop off and bug them about it.

/me sticks out his thumb for Barnard's Star.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH29LP8hUIAnGfls4RAlEfAJ9PohL0sSmLAzMWYSL+v3EhK5PODgCeOxoT
RCFoG7ZKsGEXvCf4YfpD1Hg=
=oz0L
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Chris Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



Alan McKinnon wrote:
| On Saturday 15 March 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
|> Dale wrote:
|> | Chris Brennan wrote:
|> |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
|> |
|> | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
|> | Dale
|> |
|> | :-)  :-)
|>
|> Ya but you didn't answer my question :D
|
| The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same address
| as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any list run by a
| non-idiot (like this one)
|

ahh well now that explains it all
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH29Lr8hUIAnGfls4RAlkAAJ9DJhB6m2FD34g3YMxrkT6GxNabBQCgiSFO
Jl08qrlNmdndZQrjRMXJF34=
=+SFk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Gustavo Campos]

I believe that is true.

In gmail we usually see our own posts because it composes the
conversations not only with the received messages, but also with the
sent ones (in the sent messages label)

On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
>  > Dale wrote:
>  > | Chris Brennan wrote:
>  > |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
>  > |
>  > | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
>  > | Dale
>  > |
>  > | :-)  :-)
>  >
>  > Ya but you didn't answer my question :D
>
>  The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same address
>  as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any list run by a
>  non-idiot (like this one)
>
>  --
>  Alan McKinnon
>  alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
>
>
>  --
>  gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>



-- 
Gustavo Campos

Ciência da Computação / Computer Science - UFMG
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:53:43 -0400
Chris Brennan <xaero@xaerolimit.net> wrote:


> 
> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
>

/* offtopic

Please, don't hijack threads. It is irritating for people using
thread-aware e-mail clients. Even more it is offending to the original
poster, because they get answers to your question instead of theirs. In
case you didn't know, it happens when you use "reply" for sending a new
question instead of composing a "new" message.

*/

On the subject.
My guess is you can't see your own messages because your server filters
them. It is known to happen with Gmail accounts. As a workaround you
could register two accounts - one for reading and one for sending
messages as described in the documentation:

http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml


"...Mailing List Mini-FAQ

I subscribed to a list using my home email address, but I can't post to
the list from work. What do I do to fix this?

To reduce spam, all of our lists are configured to only allow posts
from official subscriber email addresses. Fortunately, mlmmj supports
"nomail" subscriptions, allowing you to register alternate email
addresses that can be used only for posting to the list. Here's an
example of how this works. Let's say you subscribed to the gentoo-dev
list as jim@home.com, but you'd also like to post to the list using
your james@work.com email address. To do this, send a message (as
james@work.com) to gentoo-dev+subscribe-nomail@gentoo.org You should
then be allowed to post to gentoo-dev using both your home and work
email addresses...."


-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:35:32 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
> > Dale wrote:
> > | Chris Brennan wrote:
> > |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
> > |
> > | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
> > | Dale
> > |
> > | :-)  :-)
> >
> > Ya but you didn't answer my question :D
> 
> The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same
> address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any list
> run by a non-idiot (like this one)
> 

Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get their
original messages back?

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 15 March 2008, Daniel Iliev wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:35:32 +0200
>
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday 15 March 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
> > > Dale wrote:
> > > | Chris Brennan wrote:
> > > |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
> > > |
> > > | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
> > > | Dale
> > > |
> > > | :-)  :-)
> > >
> > > Ya but you didn't answer my question :D
> >
> > The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same
> > address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any
> > list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
>
> Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get their
> original messages back?

There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say 
kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 15 March 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > > The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the
> > > > same address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour
> > > > for any list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
> > >
> > > Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get
> > > their original messages back?
> >
> > There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say
> > kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.
>
> What does this have to do with what the list server does?

OK, lets go back to step 1, and try to think it through this time.

- a user sends a mail from account X to list Y
- same user is also subscribed to list Y from account X
- if list Y sends a copy of the mail to the user at account X, then the 
user has a duplicate because by definition *he already has the 
original*
- it is completely reasonable to give the list admin the option to 
enable or disable this behaviour

Sometimes the user does want a copy of the post to come back as a 
verification that the message was indeed fully processed by the list 
server. That would be an issue between the user and the list admin.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Florian Philipp]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1393 bytes --]


On Sat, 2008-03-15 at 16:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Daniel Iliev wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:35:32 +0200
> >
> > Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday 15 March 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
> > > > Dale wrote:
> > > > | Chris Brennan wrote:
> > > > |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
> > > > |
> > > > | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
> > > > | Dale
> > > > |
> > > > | :-)  :-)
> > > >
> > > > Ya but you didn't answer my question :D
> > >
> > > The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same
> > > address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any
> > > list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
> >
> > Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get their
> > original messages back?
> 
> There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say 
> kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.
> 
> -- 
> Alan McKinnon
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
> 

I doubt it works that way. I always get mails back from the list, I can
forward one to you, the headers should be proof enough. Of course it's
possible to place a copy of your sent message in your inbox (and I know,
kmail's got an option for that) but that's not standard behavior. It's
merely a workaround for broken filters like gmail's.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Alan Milnes]

On 15/03/2008, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same address
>  as what sent it.

That's unfortunate as it screws up GMail's conversation feature - also
the list email serves as confirmation that your message has got
through.

Can this setting be changed please?

Thanks

Alan
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Chris Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



Alan McKinnon wrote:
| On Saturday 15 March 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
|> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
|>>>> The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the
|>>>> same address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour
|>>>> for any list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
|>>> Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get
|>>> their original messages back?
|>> There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say
|>> kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.
|> What does this have to do with what the list server does?
|
| OK, lets go back to step 1, and try to think it through this time.
|
| - a user sends a mail from account X to list Y
| - same user is also subscribed to list Y from account X
| - if list Y sends a copy of the mail to the user at account X, then the
| user has a duplicate because by definition *he already has the
| original*
| - it is completely reasonable to give the list admin the option to
| enable or disable this behaviour
|
| Sometimes the user does want a copy of the post to come back as a
| verification that the message was indeed fully processed by the list
| server. That would be an issue between the user and the list admin.
|
|

So do the lists at gentoo provide such an option?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH2+U18hUIAnGfls4RAsulAJ9P7Bf3ec5/B92373CLaQvHTWCysgCfWPCH
rhB4aelLVyBWNH5jqr07bS8=
=yXbQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Saturday 15 March 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > > The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same
> > > address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any
> > > list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
> >
> > Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get their
> > original messages back?
>
> There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say
> kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.

What does this have to do with what the list server does?
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Chris Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Yes well, I am using thunderbird and my mail is stored on a remote
server on my lan, so I can check my mail from any machine in my house.
So yes, I am using Google Apps to host my e-mail, it's convenient for me
and meets me needs and requirements. But the question remains, is there
an options for my to enable to be sent a copy of my own posts to the
lists(s) that I belong to, as a verification *and* for Thunderbird to
properly sort the conversation. TB does infact differenciate somethings,
like when a threads *was* infact hijacked, but after the user got his
answer. I can then sort just that part and isolate it. But because TB
doesn't know where I posted first, it lumps then all together and things
jump around.


Alan McKinnon wrote:
| On Saturday 15 March 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
|> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
|>>>> The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the
|>>>> same address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour
|>>>> for any list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
|>>> Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get
|>>> their original messages back?
|>> There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say
|>> kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.
|> What does this have to do with what the list server does?
|
| OK, lets go back to step 1, and try to think it through this time.
|
| - a user sends a mail from account X to list Y
| - same user is also subscribed to list Y from account X
| - if list Y sends a copy of the mail to the user at account X, then the
| user has a duplicate because by definition *he already has the
| original*
| - it is completely reasonable to give the list admin the option to
| enable or disable this behaviour
|
| Sometimes the user does want a copy of the post to come back as a
| verification that the message was indeed fully processed by the list
| server. That would be an issue between the user and the list admin.
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH2+Z08hUIAnGfls4RAhOnAJ9X8FN+q64o8bxlaDTIUzAbaeE9GwCfTLX8
x5j6lBglymdwQhsgABjwZMk=
=5/8c
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:31:53 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Daniel Iliev wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:35:32 +0200
> >
> > Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday 15 March 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
> > > > Dale wrote:
> > > > | Chris Brennan wrote:
> > > > |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
> > > > |
> > > > | We got this one.  I saw one other one too.
> > > > | Dale
> > > > |
> > > > | :-)  :-)
> > > >
> > > > Ya but you didn't answer my question :D
> > >
> > > The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same
> > > address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour for any
> > > list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
> >
> > Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get their
> > original messages back?
> 
> There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say 
> kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.
> 


I don't think so. The ML software sends (bounces) every message to all
subscribers (except those who had chosen the "no-mail" option). It is up
to the subscribers' server or client to decide what to do with a given
message when/if they catch this message has already been there.

Anyone, please, correct me if I'm wrong.

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Saturday 15 March 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> OK, lets go back to step 1, and try to think it through this time.
>
> - a user sends a mail from account X to list Y
> - same user is also subscribed to list Y from account X
> - if list Y sends a copy of the mail to the user at account X, then
> the user has a duplicate because by definition *he already has the
> original*
> - it is completely reasonable to give the list admin the option to
> enable or disable this behaviour

Agreed. However, Gentoo lists do send back the messages to the senders, 
and this is unrelated to the broken way gmail handles list messages.
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Markus Schönhaber]

Alan McKinnon schrieb:

> The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same address 
> as what sent it.

Of course it does.
That you don't see it doesn't mean the list server doesn't send it.

> This is pretty usual behaviour for any list run by a 
> non-idiot (like this one)

No it isn't.

Regards
  mks
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Samstag, 15. März 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Saturday 15 March 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> > On Saturday 15 March 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > > > The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the
> > > > > same address as what sent it. This is pretty usual behaviour
> > > > > for any list run by a non-idiot (like this one)
> > > >
> > > > Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get
> > > > their original messages back?
> > >
> > > There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say
> > > kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.
> >
> > What does this have to do with what the list server does?
>
> OK, lets go back to step 1, and try to think it through this time.
>
> - a user sends a mail from account X to list Y
> - same user is also subscribed to list Y from account X
> - if list Y sends a copy of the mail to the user at account X, then the
> user has a duplicate because by definition *he already has the
> original*
> - it is completely reasonable to give the list admin the option to
> enable or disable this behaviour


but you are wrong.

You get your email back from the list.

GMAIL just does not show it.
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Samstag, 15. März 2008, Alan Milnes wrote:
> On 15/03/2008, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same address
> >  as what sent it.
>
> That's unfortunate as it screws up GMail's conversation feature - also
> the list email serves as confirmation that your message has got
> through.
>
> Can this setting be changed please?

there is no such setting. The ml sends all mails to all subscribers. So you DO 
get your mail back.

gmail does not show such mails, because it is broken. Google for it, it has 
been discussed in the past.
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Samstag, 15. März 2008, Chris Brennan wrote:
> Norberto Bensa wrote:
> | Chris Brennan wrote:
> |> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
> |
> | You seem to be using google for mx... ;-)
>
> Indeed I am, appeears to be the only reliable free mail service I have
> access to at the moment .... so now I will pop off and bug them about it.
>
> /me sticks out his thumb for Barnard's Star.


this broken behaviour angers people from the beginning. They won't change it.

gmx is a nice, free service that always works.
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Samstag, 15. März 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>   
>> OK, lets go back to step 1, and try to think it through this time.
>>
>> - a user sends a mail from account X to list Y
>> - same user is also subscribed to list Y from account X
>> - if list Y sends a copy of the mail to the user at account X, then the
>> user has a duplicate because by definition *he already has the
>> original*
>> - it is completely reasonable to give the list admin the option to
>> enable or disable this behaviour
>>     
>
>
> but you are wrong.
>
> You get your email back from the list.
>
> GMAIL just does not show it.
>   

That is the way I understand it too.  It's not the list mail server that 
stops it, it's the mail server on the users end.  I'll have a copy of 
this email in my sent folder but I'll also get a copy back in my inbox 
folder in a little bit too.  I also sort mine by threads so it is neat 
or the threading will be . . . confusing.  I have enough confusion 
already. 

Dale

:-)  :-)
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Stroller]

On 15 Mar 2008, at 13:35, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> ...
> The list software doesn't send a copy of a mail back to the same  
> address
> as what sent it.

It does here.

> This is pretty usual behaviour for any list run by a
> non-idiot (like this one)

Usually it's a user-configurable option, obviously with a default  
setting that the admin can set.

Stroller.
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Stroller]

On 15 Mar 2008, at 13:27, Norberto Bensa wrote:

> Chris Brennan wrote:
>> How come I don't see my own posts to this list?
>
> You seem to be using google for mx... ;-)

And to expand on that, this is an FAQ for Gmail users.

http://tinyurl.com/32h53h
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/166636/

Stroller 
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Randomly dumb questions

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 572 bytes --]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:31:53 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Is that so? Then will you, please, explain how do people get their
> > original messages back?  
> 
> There's a copy already in their outbox? And a sane mailer (like say 
> kmail) will have put the sent copy there already.

The original goes in the outbox, the copy from the listserv is filtered
into this folder. I certainly wouldn't want my own messages filtered out
by the server, what if I send from another computer or a webmail server?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Nice computers don't go down.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]