Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid

["b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com>]

Enrico Weigelt ha scritto:

> I'd prefer telling people what I (personally) believe it's good/right
> and give them the chance to either take or leave it. Both decisions
> will have their consequences, but nobody can tell which one is 
> objectively better - evryhing's subjective.
[...]
> I don't feel to defend anything against anyone. At least not in such
> technically debates. I've got my arguments and solutions. Feel free to
> either follow them or leave them alone. You also can put your own
> against, and so we can discuss.

Your problem is: you live in the delusion that if you write thing X,
people immediately understand X and either refuse it or accept it.

People do not work that way (no, you neither).

If you write thing X and X is not blatantly, utmostly trivially obvious
(and even in this case) most people will NOT understand it. For example,
I am explaining to you this concept right now, and I see you have an
hard time grasping it. You see?

So you have to explain it again and to "defend" your opinion in the
sense that you have to nail into the head of the relevant people that
you're right (or nail into yours that you are wrong).

If the world was like you think it is, it would probably be better. But
not being so, it's not surprising that you feel "refused" by it.

> Okay, this is really getting in philophical topics liek god vs. satan ;-o
> (--> getting too offtopic ?)

Yeah, but I like it. :)

 > In case of the mozilla-launcher bug, I did explain it. And I found an
> quick and dirty solution for me. Not a clean one, but it's a start.
> We had several better ideas in this thread, which should be discussed. 
> But as long as the bug is marked invalid, I have to assume that debate
> is unwelcomed and so won't invest much more resouces in that.

No, you have to assume that people upstream have not understood why the
bug is valid.
The conversation was:
enrico: hey, there's bug X in package Y when doing Z
bugwrangler: (giving just a fast glance) hmmm, doesn't look like a bug.
maybe better avoiding wasting time.
enrico: oh, don't you think it's a bug? F**K YOU MORONS ME IS WASTING TIME.

Now the RIGHT reply would be:
enrico: ehm, no. you misunderstand me, probably. it's REALLY a bug for
those reasons. i'll try to be even more clear now...blah,blah...you see
it now?
b.w.: still not convinced
enrico: (repeat until convince someone or you are forced to give up)

> Well, of course we're all conditioned on defending if we're attacked, 
> probably generic. But I really don't see I anytings to gain here 
> than maybe my honour in such an unimportant place like bgo.

That's where you are wrong, and that's why I still insist answering to
this thread. If you insist:
- you get all the community aware that there is a bug
- you could get the bug fixed
- Gentoo is better
That's why it is important. Frankly I don't care that much about your
honour :), but I care about Gentoo. It's my OS, I want it better.

> Maybe it's my fault if some people doesn't understand my bug reports.
> But it's their fault if they declare my reports as invalid w/o asking
> back, ranting against me, try to convince me to go away, etc

If they don't understand them, how can it be their fault? Garbage input
--> garbage output.

> I had to learn that bgo is clearly not the place for an open and 
> cooperative working on problems, if you're not an Gentoo cleric.

Too strange I am not a "Gentoo cleric" and I had exactly the opposite
experience.

> So I've got my conclusions and work alone. Maybe some people come
> around and say, against Gentoo, but that's not true - just beyond 
> Gentoo. (If they really believe in that, well I'll leave them with
> that - I'm not the one who wants to have anything to do with such
> religious stuff)

This, I agree. But working alone helps no one apart from you and a bunch
of guys that agree with you. Plus, sometimes you could actually be
wrong. Discussing your patches with people could always be helpful.

m.
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