Re: [gentoo-user] Again: Critical bugs considered invalid

["b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com>]

felix@crowfix.com ha scritto:
> Complaining TWICE worked.  

Is it so bad? I'd say complaining ten times would be bad, but twice
seems a reasonable number of attempts.

> The problem I complained about shouldn't
> have happened in the first place; someonex fixed something that wasn't
> broken and made it broken.

Bugs! What an awkward occurrence in the world of programming! And, even
more unusual, people who should improve programs... introduce new bugs
too! Alas! They even have a word for these "incredibly rare" kind of
bugs: regressions. They are as common as shit, my friend. I just
discovered two of them, today, in the data analysis software I code in
my lab :)

Probably someone fixed something that WAS broken but, doing that, also
unfixed something else. In programming, often, tightening a string
somewhere looses it somewhere else. Bug fixing is harder than
programming itself.

> Your response is absolutely typical of my problem with the gentoo dev
> community.  You misstate a complaint, overreact to it, and apparently
> feel pretty smug about your accomplishment. 

Where did I misstate (?) a complaint?
Where did I overreact?
And where did I feel smug about it?

You had perfectly legit complaints. I (we) just told you what the
correct procedure to get solved is. Note:maybe it won't get them solved,
I agree. But ranting is not a way either. All you can logically do is
try again to follow the procedure, or fix them yourself. There's nothing
else you can do. Really.

> No one will admit to the
> two screwups (first breaking a working ebuild, second incorrectly
> closing a bug on it).  Instead you lash out at those who point out
> problems.

I fully, completely admit the screwups!
What you fail to understand is that they're common everyday problems
that will always occur on a large project like an operating system
distribution, and that there are methods to fix them most of the time.

> Yes, I had the wrong program when I compalined about the color
> problem.  But the gentoo community response then as now was to lash
> out, scream and shout, not to actually investigate.

What there was to "investigate"?
First, we are NOT the community that must "investigate", since we're
users, not devels. Ask devels to "investigate".
Second, your problem was not something like, say, "X freezing, no error
messages, where could I look?", but more like "colours ugly as hell, wtf
why don't they change them". What is there to investigate about that?
Everyone not colour-blind on this list knows what colours has emerge:
investigation finished.
Third, you actually already did all the investigation possible. You, IIRC:
-looked at emerge code
-didn't like that (probably rightly so)
-told yourself they're too dumb to even understand a complain (not
rightly so, IMHO)
-rant on gentoo-users

Really, what should have we done? It is not a rhetoric question: I just
don't understand. If you can tell me an example of what should we have
done, I'm really and sincerely happy to hear it.

>  And when I
> finally left the thread alone, you geniuses were still ranting about
> it three days later when I next checked.

That's a good point. We can't resist flamebaits, that's all. :) But so,
what has it to do with the problem?

> You folks may think you have a cool system, and it is in some ways and
> could be in many others.  But I know many people who tried gentoo and
> bailed precisely because of the shoot the messenger mentality so
> pervasive here; the self-selected sample you see is meaningless.

Well, I tell you a secret: even with all its quirks and defects, Gentoo
has one of the more friendly and helpful communities in the OSS world.
Try have a look at the Debian, OpenBSD or Slackware forums/ml/IRC
channels, and you'll understand.

> Go ahead, have another three days' fun.  Maybe I'll spark some more
> tinders in a month or two.  I wouldn't want to deprive you of your
> fun.

I can't understand your sarcasm. It's you that put flamebaits in the
forests -how can you blame us for the fire? :)

m.
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