From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAC071581D3 for ; Thu, 16 May 2024 12:56:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1510A2BC022; Thu, 16 May 2024 12:56:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cornsilk.ash.relay.mailchannels.net (cornsilk.ash.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.222.40]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BBDA2BC015 for ; Thu, 16 May 2024 12:56:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: thundermail|x-authsender|confabulate@kintzios.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2A7762D00 for ; Thu, 16 May 2024 12:56:40 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1715864199; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fz1nYLNZTH/2RLOYeI96is0AMHiYasuFKVXdaTgidExD64qy3ZbgRi9t9Xv2VqFJP2gn7Z HkJMpL5qYjyYVTyxU3ZCemBRgwpbBclfXW4CHV9GbUWR2hPfioc+Nuvxj3f/OmbmJdTrk9 x13P6lGvuNaAw+ZdIkm8IuR1pItEXOOrASbkM6Sl5dJCoOkvtxHidOicHoNU1+5U8qJfia ZEkSsbpIr9FPj0G/cs4AtSd1KVgXKUlqFKUf4S5WCiUNiAour5yxKd/GYGK5nOxtfU4dPL 5go5a3J5AOlI7ggV/uJZhXOroZaWHDeaUBXjCoWmtRIif9nwuaA4isg+hFf2dQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1715864199; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references; bh=FskN0M0GCsuEcQ1lITD6z4PFS+/1s8Qja2OnHUq3Uak=; b=aXOQKYUFN1JfxuvLHbVzbeucnTrri4Gs+0P4WI7rF1jQD2vPO4GPzaY+h2/GcEL3HFy1kh YJadybarbBmNPajpFaSgs9d0E6p98tWnQenOwjGSjEJS8J0/h9qIWiRhO0PFXOORCfCVoR 0wseFc2fSsByseFRVxuGuaMRuq2q/Em4LmoUN9Xng1Ttbc1nzzrzQwYt5RTXzMzAJiwP2s Y4BpHsJZlU1C+/rwpPp5gP6giJBOaJxp79YPabhcOQ77S/L/kVtffcgJVkS1i9bWKvIbwc 35ZugXewZIFWw8nTnpJB5+wie9xkbmUEc+hARUuAPZjzsrDsZME3hImioyKbuA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-68bbddc7f5-92qg2; auth=pass smtp.auth=thundermail smtp.mailfrom=confabulate@kintzios.com X-Sender-Id: thundermail|x-authsender|confabulate@kintzios.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: thundermail|x-authsender|confabulate@kintzios.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: thundermail X-Little-Thread: 0c2e140953a5fa21_1715864200000_2355392154 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1715864200000:3558590122 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1715864200000 Received: from mailclean11.thundermail.uk (mailclean11.thundermail.uk [149.255.60.66]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.124.51.246 (trex/6.9.2); Thu, 16 May 2024 12:56:39 +0000 Received: from cloud238.thundercloud.uk (cloud238.thundercloud.uk [149.255.62.116]) by mailclean11.thundermail.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE9D91E0019 for ; Thu, 16 May 2024 13:56:33 +0100 (BST) Authentication-Results: cloud238.thundercloud.uk; spf=pass (sender IP is 217.169.3.230) smtp.mailfrom=confabulate@kintzios.com smtp.helo=rogueboard.localnet Received-SPF: pass (cloud238.thundercloud.uk: connection is authenticated) From: Michael To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling. Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 13:56:19 +0100 Message-ID: <46380121.fMDQidcC6G@rogueboard> In-Reply-To: References: <2215573.Icojqenx9y@rogueboard> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2196811.Icojqenx9y"; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-PPP-Message-ID: <171586419320.781769.3620655728187403029@cloud238.thundercloud.uk> X-PPP-Vhost: kintzios.com X-Rspamd-Server: mailclean11 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.61 / 999.00]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+mx]; FUZZY_BLOCKED(0.00)[rspamd.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34931, ipnet:149.255.60.0/22, country:GB]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM(-0.00)[-0.960]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[kintzios.com,none]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[confabulate@kintzios.com] X-Rspamd-Action: no action X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BE9D91E0019 X-Archives-Salt: ed736d18-3fef-439c-989b-faa098fcb57e X-Archives-Hash: 322676e9a9d37abec88857932502e9e7 --nextPart2196811.Icojqenx9y Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Michael To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-To: confabulate@kintzios.com Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 13:56:19 +0100 Message-ID: <46380121.fMDQidcC6G@rogueboard> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Thursday, 16 May 2024 11:13:31 BST Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Wed, May 15, 2024 at 07:08:11PM +0100 schrieb Michael: > > Hi Alan, > >=20 > > On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 15:23:47 BST Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > > Hello, Gentoo. > > > [=E2=80=A6] > > > So I'm looking at getting an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X processor, and using i= ts > > > inbuilt graphics rather than buying a distinct graphics card. > >=20 > > [=E2=80=A6] > >=20 > > > As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting wat= er > > > cooling in my new machine? In particular, to reduce the noise it giv= es > > > off while building large packages such as clang and rust? Or is water > > > cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers? > > >=20 > > > Thanks for the upcoming answers! > >=20 > > WC will be quieter and more expensive than an after market air cooler. >=20 > Are you sure about the noise? First there is the water pump and second, > the heat from the air cycle needs to get somewhere, which is donw with fa= ns. > So unless you get a big radiator with several fans, you just relocate the > fan noise inside the case. Unless faulty a WC pump is inaudible. A radiator with two 140mm fans will= =20 just tick over, even under heavy load and overclocked, while I've see AC fa= ns=20 spin above 1200 RPM. Either way, I think there's more noise coming out of= =20 case fans than the CPU's AC, which is in the guts of the case. Another way to think about it, the liquid cooling medium can absorb more he= at=20 until it is saturated enough to start spinning higher the 2 or 3 radiator=20 fans, which are typically larger than AC fan(s). There's also a question of just buying an AIO cooler, or some custom oversi= zed=20 build which will be on a different level of performance (and cost). > I have a 10 years old i5 with a TDP of I think 84 W. On that sits a normal > (not even high-performance) tower cooler with a single 120 mm fan. At full > load the CPU draws around 50 W, maybe even less unless you do prime95. So= my > cooler is basically overkill. But this allows the fan to never leave the > minimum RPM range of ~500=E2=80=A6600 1/min and is unaudible even at full= load. Yes, at these RPMs it will be very quiet, but I expect your new CPU will sp= in=20 its AC faster when under load. > However =E2=80=A6 >=20 > > You could invest the money toward more RAM, (more/bigger) case fans, a > > better PSU, monitor, speakers, a new car, etc. :-) > >=20 > > https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-specs/amd-7700x-tdp/ > >=20 > > Cranking up 16 threads to 5.4 GHz will produce some heat, but compiles > > will > > complete sooner too. >=20 > =E2=80=A6 the 7000X are hotheads, because they operate way above the effi= ciency > sweetspot just to get the longest bar in benchmark diagrams. If you reduce > the power target=C2=B9 in the BIOS, you lose a few percent in performance= , but > get a disproportionately bigger reduction in energy consumption. >=20 > =C2=B9 The TDP of a 7700X is 105 W. The maximum permanent power draw is T= DP * 1.4 > (ish, can=E2=80=99t remember the exact details right now). So if you redu= ce the > target to 84 W, you draw a little over 100 W. That=E2=80=99s easy-peasy f= or a > mormal 120 mm tower cooler. One additional advantage of an air cooler is > that it also blows air over your mainboard and its power stages. That=E2= =80=99s > something you don=E2=80=99t get with a water loop and need an extra case = fan for=E2=80=94IF > you keep the CPU on high load all the time which causes more heat buildup > in the VRMs. As you say, an AC can also draw air at close proximity over the RAM modules= =20 and VRMs compared to the more diffused airflow of case fan(s), which is an= =20 additional benefit. If you will tune down the CPU, as opposed to O/C it, t= hen=20 I think an air cooler will be more than adequate and represent more bang fo= r=20 your buck. I came across this video, but more detailed reviews and tests should be=20 available for your specific CPU in the interwebs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dlxf4ZXJTNpI --nextPart2196811.Icojqenx9y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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