[gentoo-user] Bon Echo (why?)

[gentoo-user] Bon Echo (why?)

[Gyuszk]

Dear gentoo users,

As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?
Is really development version of Firefox in Portage, or what?

Thanks a lot
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[gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Grant Edwards]

On 2007-02-24, Gyuszk <hangcsapda@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear gentoo users,
>
> As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
> emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
> box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?

Some licensing BS or other.

> Is really development version of Firefox in Portage, or what?

If you want it to call itself "Firefox" add mozbranding to your
USE flags.

-- 
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                                  at               73 pigeons, some LIVE ammo,
                               visi.com            and a FROZEN DAQUIRI!!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Thomas Rösner]

Grant Edwards schrieb:
> On 2007-02-24, Gyuszk <hangcsapda@gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Dear gentoo users,
>>
>> As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
>> emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
>> box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?
>>     
>
> Some licensing BS or other.
>   

Trademark Law, to be exact, and Mozilla.com's policy of not allowing 
patched Firefoxes to wear their brand badge. Debian calls it Iceweasel. 
(Ubuntu too?).

Regards,
    T.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Gyuszk]

Thomas Rösner írta:
> Grant Edwards schrieb:
>> On 2007-02-24, Gyuszk <hangcsapda@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  
>>> Dear gentoo users,
>>>
>>> As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
>>> emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
>>> box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?
>>>     
>>
>> Some licensing BS or other.
>>   
>
> Trademark Law, to be exact, and Mozilla.com's policy of not allowing
> patched Firefoxes to wear their brand badge. Debian calls it
> Iceweasel. (Ubuntu too?).
>
> Regards,
>    T.
>
>
No, Ubuntu has made deal with Mozilla. They can use Firefox and
Thunderbird brands.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Gyuszk]

Grant Edwards írta:
> On 2007-02-24, Gyuszk <hangcsapda@gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Dear gentoo users,
>>
>> As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
>> emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
>> box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?
>>     
>
> Some licensing BS or other.
>
>   
>> Is really development version of Firefox in Portage, or what?
>>     
>
> If you want it to call itself "Firefox" add mozbranding to your
> USE flags.
>
>   
Thanks. I think it is not a good idea to call Firefox (for some branding
issue) its development codename. Maybe Gentoo should use Debian's
Iceweasel name.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Grant]

> >> As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
> >> emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
> >> box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?
> >>
> >
> > Some licensing BS or other.
> >
> >
> >> Is really development version of Firefox in Portage, or what?
> >>
> >
> > If you want it to call itself "Firefox" add mozbranding to your
> > USE flags.
> >
> >
> Thanks. I think it is not a good idea to call Firefox (for some branding
> issue) its development codename. Maybe Gentoo should use Debian's
> Iceweasel name.

I agree.  It's confusing that the brand-less name is the same as the
development name.

- Grant
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[gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[»Q«]

In <news:49bf44f10702241819q687bdda1le058ab7c27c60b77@mail.gmail.com>,
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Thanks. I think it is not a good idea to call Firefox (for some
> > branding issue) its development codename. Maybe Gentoo should use
> > Debian's Iceweasel name.  
> 
> I agree.  It's confusing that the brand-less name is the same as the
> development name.

I don't seen anything about it at bugs.gentoo.org;  you could file a
bug.  I'm not sure anyone would be motivated to patch it, though.  As
it is now, (well, AIUI) the USE flag just controls the
--enable-official-branding switch for compiling and the "Bon Echo" you
see is just an artifact of the way Mozilla ships its source code.

I think something other than "Iceweasel" would be preferable,
since Debian and GNU both have Iceweasel projects.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Dan Farrell]

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 21:29:24 -0600
»Q« <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote:

> In <news:49bf44f10702241819q687bdda1le058ab7c27c60b77@mail.gmail.com>,
> Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Thanks. I think it is not a good idea to call Firefox (for some
> > > branding issue) its development codename. Maybe Gentoo should use
> > > Debian's Iceweasel name.  
> > 
> > I agree.  It's confusing that the brand-less name is the same as the
> > development name.
> 
> I don't seen anything about it at bugs.gentoo.org;  you could file a
> bug.  I'm not sure anyone would be motivated to patch it, though.  As
> it is now, (well, AIUI) the USE flag just controls the
> --enable-official-branding switch for compiling and the "Bon Echo" you
> see is just an artifact of the way Mozilla ships its source code.
> 
> I think something other than "Iceweasel" would be preferable,
> since Debian and GNU both have Iceweasel projects.
> 
but 'IceWeasel' is ugly.  Bon Echo is such a nice name.  
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Joe Menola]

On Sunday 25 February 2007 12:55 pm, Dan Farrell wrote:
> but 'IceWeasel' is ugly.  Bon Echo is such a nice name.  

I'd prefer firefox_alt or something similar. Something that tells me what it 
is....

-jm
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[gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Grant Edwards]

On 2007-02-25, Joe Menola <menola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Sunday 25 February 2007 12:55 pm, Dan Farrell wrote:
>> but 'IceWeasel' is ugly.  Bon Echo is such a nice name.  
>
> I'd prefer firefox_alt or something similar. Something that tells me what it 
> is....

Um, if you're not allowed to use the trademarked name
"firefox", then calling it "firefox_alt" is also going to be a
trademark violation.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Do I hear th'
                                  at               SPINNING of various
                               visi.com            WHIRRING, ROUND, and WARM
                                                   WHIRLOMATICS?!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Korthrun]

On 2/25/07, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:
> On 2007-02-25, Joe Menola <menola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 February 2007 12:55 pm, Dan Farrell wrote:
> >> but 'IceWeasel' is ugly. Bon Echo is such a nice name.
> >
> > I'd prefer firefox_alt or something similar. Something that tells me what it
> > is....
>
> Um, if you're not allowed to use the trademarked name
> "firefox", then calling it "firefox_alt" is also going to be a
> trademark violation.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Do I hear th'
>                                   at               SPINNING of various
>                                visi.com            WHIRRING, ROUND, and WARM
>                                                    WHIRLOMATICS?!
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
Iceweasel for life.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Willie Wong]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 01:35:33PM -0700, Penguin Lover Korthrun squawked:
> Iceweasel for life.

Getting a bit off topic here...

But IceWeasel to me means something like "Distant third cousin with
some contradictory philosophy" to FireFox, like, say, Galeon or
Kazehakase. 

I prefer something like FlameCanid that more properly expresses the
fact that "ours" is almost-exactly-but-not-quite-perfectly-the-same. 

:)

W
-- 
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Sortir en Pantoufles: up 79 days, 20:28
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[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Christian Marie]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 05:15:14PM -0500, Willie Wong wrote:
> I prefer something like FlameCanid that more properly expresses the
> fact that "ours" is almost-exactly-but-not-quite-perfectly-the-same. 

We use Bon Echo as it's upstreams default unbranded name. Many other
distros are using Bon Echo and changing it to something else would
require a reasonably painful amount of patching and maintenance.

You are allowed to build Firefox with branding, you can't distribute any
binaries you build though. We're currently considering enabling branding
by default with USE=bindist however it's a complicated issue.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Monday 26 February 2007 00:06:55 Christian Marie wrote:
> You are allowed to build Firefox with branding, you can't distribute any
> binaries you build though. We're currently considering enabling branding
> by default with USE=bindist however it's a complicated issue.

I assume you meant when USE=bindist is disabled.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Iain Buchanan]

On Sun, 2007-02-25 at 17:15 -0500, Willie Wong wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 01:35:33PM -0700, Penguin Lover Korthrun squawked:
> > Iceweasel for life.
> 
> Getting a bit off topic here...

what is a topic for, if not for getting "off"?!

> But IceWeasel to me means something like "Distant third cousin with
> some contradictory philosophy" to FireFox, like, say, Galeon or
> Kazehakase. 

I agree.  What the hell is Bon Echo to someone who barely knows what
firefox is?!

> I prefer something like FlameCanid that more properly expresses the
> fact that "ours" is almost-exactly-but-not-quite-perfectly-the-same. 

or Flamefox? or Hotfox, or Earthcat or Plasmadonkey, or Iceweasel... oh,
we ruled out that one...

but something that won't change with new firefox releases is a good
idea.

cya,
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

In Seattle, Washington, it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon that
is over six feet in length.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Dan Farrell]

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:27:17 +0000 (UTC)
Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:

> On 2007-02-25, Joe Menola <menola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 February 2007 12:55 pm, Dan Farrell wrote:
> >> but 'IceWeasel' is ugly.  Bon Echo is such a nice name.  
> >
> > I'd prefer firefox_alt or something similar. Something that tells
> > me what it is....
> 
> Um, if you're not allowed to use the trademarked name
> "firefox", then calling it "firefox_alt" is also going to be a
> trademark violation.
> 
This reminds me of when it was called "FireBird", and then they had to
change the name becuase of trademark violations or something of the
sort.  I laughed at the time, thinking how this little fledgling
browser was irritating the supergiants.  Now it's firefox that won't
'share' it's name, even with what is obstensiably the same thing.  It's
amusing.  And wasn't there even another , pre'Firefox' name for the
browser?  
I like the idea of calling it a blatant (but legal) ripoff, like
'FlameVixen' or something.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Monday 26 February 2007, Dan Farrell <dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote about 'Re: 
[gentoo-user]  Re: Bon Echo (why?)':
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:27:17 +0000 (UTC)
> Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:
> > On 2007-02-25, Joe Menola <menola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > > On Sunday 25 February 2007 12:55 pm, Dan Farrell wrote:
> > >> but 'IceWeasel' is ugly.  Bon Echo is such a nice name.  
> > >
> > > I'd prefer firefox_alt or something similar. Something that tells
> > > me what it is....
> >
> > Um, if you're not allowed to use the trademarked name
> > "firefox", then calling it "firefox_alt" is also going to be a
> > trademark violation.
>
> This reminds me of when it was called "FireBird", and then they had to
> change the name becuase of trademark violations or something of the
> sort.

It was actually much less serious.  Firebird is an open-source database 
that's been around (although not that popular) for longer than the mozilla 
project.  The browser graciously decided, after notification (no posturing 
or threatening) by the database team not to overlap the names presumably 
to avoid confusing users.

Now, that decision may have been made for a different reason.  The company 
behind firefox probably wanted to be able to use the name as a 
trademark/brand at some point in the future and the pre-existing project 
may have undermind that.

IIRC, there was also a similar issue with the name "Pheonix".

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Jürgen Geuter]

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On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 18:51 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

> IIRC, there was also a similar issue with the name "Pheonix".

I always thought that it could not be called Phoenix anymore because of
the BIOS manufacturer (http://phoenix.com)?

regards

Jürgen
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Bon Echo (why?)

[Mark Kirkwood]

Grant Edwards wrote:

> 
> If you want it to call itself "Firefox" add mozbranding to your
> USE flags.
> 

Thanks for bringing this up! My mother has been a little confused about 
  this "Bon Echo" thing - and (re) emerging with USE="mozbranding" got 
Firefox "back" for her, along with its expected icon.

Cheers

Mark
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Re: [gentoo-user] Bon Echo (why?)

[Jakob Buchgraber]

Gyuszk wrote:
> Dear gentoo users,
>
> As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
> emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
> box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?
> Is really development version of Firefox in Portage, or what?
>
> Thanks a lot
>   
Check out the article about Bon Echo on Wikipedia: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox#Trademark_and_logo_issues

Cheers,
Jay

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Re: [gentoo-user] Bon Echo (why?)

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Saturday 24 February 2007 20:50:37 Gyuszk wrote:
> As you all know, Firefox 2.0.0.2 is stable on x86 in Portage. When one
> emerges it, Gnome menu call, and the software calls itself (in about
> box) Bon Echo (the codename of Firefox 2 development tree). Why?
> Is really development version of Firefox in Portage, or what?

http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/faq.html

-- 
Bo Andresen

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