[gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Terry Eck]

I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
using gentoo before I install it.

Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.

Terry Eck

-- 
SUSE LINUX 10.0 (i586) -- 2.6.13-15.12-default  --  Sun 10/01/06
   1:00pm  up  16:53,  3 users,  load average: 0.79, 0.54, 0.37

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Mark Knecht]

On 10/1/06, Terry Eck <terry_eck@comcast.net> wrote:
> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.
>
> Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.
>
> Terry Eck
>

Hi Terry,
   I'm a non-developer, non-sysadmin, Linux-user type. I was pretty
scared of Gentoo when I started a few years ago. (2002 or 2003?)
Actually, it turned out to not be that difficult once you got into the
swing of things. One thing I think you'll appreciate once you get used
to it is the quality of the Gentoo documentation. It's really great
stuff and seldom leads you astray. Read it carefully and you'll
usually get things right pretty quickly.

   As for installing Gentoo, since you are building most everything
from scratch it does take a few days the first time you do it to get
to a usable desktop with applications installed and running. It gets
faster over time but my machines always take me a day at least before
I'm running a browser inside of Gnome. Read and follow the Quick
Install guide and it will work. Use a test machine if you have one for
your first install.

   Once converted to Gentoo you'll love that you never really do
upgrades. Just updates. Portage is really nice at keeping things up to
date.

   Run stable packages (i.e. - not ~x86 or ~amd64) unless you need a
specific package, at least to start. In my mind there is little value
to running a testing package unless you have a specific problem or
need a specific new feature. Testing packages become stable package
pretty quickly so you'll have it in a few weeks anyway.

   I must say that EVERYTHING I learned about Gentoo that mattered
came from the generous folks on this list. Read the docs and then feel
free to ask questions. Answers here seem to be the least
confrontational, most informative of pretty much any Linux list I've
ever subscribed to.

   Get GMail or some email client that is good at threading
conversation. Email traffic on this list gets a bit high at time.
GMail makes it work well for me.

   Keep in mind that if dummies like me can make Gentoo work, and I
have - my wife, my son, my 78 year old father and 77 year old mother
all run Gentoo now - then I'm sure you'll have no trouble at all.

Hope this helps,
Mark
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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Sunday 01 October 2006 20:08, Terry Eck wrote:
> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.
>
> Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.
>

well, read the documentation on gentoo.org. Handbook, installation 
instructions.

If it seems to complicated to you, don't do the switch. But if you 
think 'well, I might be able to do it', try it. Backup your suse forst, of 
course.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[David Grant]

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On 10/1/06, Hemmann, Volker Armin <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
wrote:
>
> On Sunday 01 October 2006 20:08, Terry Eck wrote:
> > I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> > I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> > from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> > weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> > on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> > using gentoo before I install it.
> >
> > Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.
> >
>
> well, read the documentation on gentoo.org. Handbook, installation
> instructions.
>
> If it seems to complicated to you, don't do the switch. But if you
> think 'well, I might be able to do it', try it. Backup your suse forst, of
> course.


I agree, just read the handbook over the course of a few days or however
long it takes you. If you understand most of it (or if you didn't understand
it before reading the handbook but you do afterwards) and you think it
sounds easy to you, then everything else should be easy.

-- 
David Grant
http://www.davidgrant.ca

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Daniel Iliev]

Terry Eck wrote:
> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.
>
> Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.
>
> Terry Eck
>


Just one word: PRAY!

..I'm joking ;-)

I would say you should be filled with patience - compiling the packets
on your machine takes a lot of time and may be it is annoying for one
who is used to just get the binaries and decompress them. The initial
installation is the hardest part in this respect because it takes a long
time  before the GUI is ready. After this point compiling is not an
issue - you may do whatever you please while emerge does its job.

Everything else is just like on every modern distro. Most of the time it
is OK but there are also problems now and then. The first time I tried
Gentoo and didn't burn my bridges to turn back: I left my Slackware
alone and installed Gentoo on a different HDD. A few months later the
Slackware was gone. Now I won't change Gentoo for any other distro. Go
forward and give a try!


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel


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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Lord Sauron]

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On Sunday 01 October 2006 11:08, Terry Eck wrote:
> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.
>
> Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.
>
> Terry Eck
>
> --
> SUSE LINUX 10.0 (i586) -- 2.6.13-15.12-default  --  Sun 10/01/06
>    1:00pm  up  16:53,  3 users,  load average: 0.79, 0.54, 0.37

For your first time I'd highly suggest the graphical installer.  It'll 
save you some time, and while a lot of people correctly point out that 
it robs you of a great learning experience, it was the only thing that 
enabled a complete newbie (me) to successfully install gentoo.

Once you've got Gentoo installed though...  it's almost invulnerable.  
I've done some really dumb things to my installation, and I've always 
been able (with a great deal of help from this list) to restore my 
machine to working order.

I also have to say that your memory footprint will get smaller with 
gentoo.  The stuff you compile is much more suited to your setup if you 
spend the time to tweak your system.

It has some excellent tools for administering your system, and I haven't 
had a stability problem yet (Kubuntu is more error-prone than Gentoo - 
no joke.)

If you're up to the challenge, Gentoo is wonderful.  I love it so much I 
installed it on my server.

Also, for a threaded mail client, KMail*, Thunderbird, and even MS 
Outlook Express have threaded features.  If you're interested in GMail, 
I'd be happy to send you an invite.

*Coming from a happy and satisfied (even spoiled) KMail user.  Worth a 
try if nothing else.

-- 
http://lordsauronthegreat.googlepages.com/

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Ryan Tandy]

Lord Sauron wrote:
> For your first time I'd highly suggest the graphical installer.  It'll 
> save you some time, and while a lot of people correctly point out that 
> it robs you of a great learning experience, it was the only thing that 
> enabled a complete newbie (me) to successfully install gentoo.

I have to go the complete opposite direction from this.  I'd stay away 
from the graphical installer at least for a releases yet - IMO it isn't 
a very stable product yet (no offense installer team, just needs more 
time) and is known to break things on a regular basis.  Put in the time, 
do it by hand, and do it properly, configuring your own kernel and such. 
  It'll be worth it, because by the time you first boot your Gentoo, 
you'll already know exactly what's in it.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sun, 1 Oct 2006, Terry Eck wrote:

> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.
One suggestion: get a KNOPPIX CD and install from that
(http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml)
This way you will have a GUI (KDE) right from the start.

While you have several years of experience with linux, I had a few
months with RH7.3, and only  Apple  (MacOS 8.6) before that. So, if I
could do it...
There was no genkernel then and no graphical installer. Didn't miss any.
The major problem was to configure the kernel from scratch, but I
managed it somehow. 
Good luck.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Chris Walters]

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Hello Terry,

Well, the way I learned it, when I switched from Debian to Gentoo, was
that I used the "Minimal Install CD".  I also used the Gentoo Handbook
(not the "Installation Docs" for the current version.  The CD will
detect ethernet links to the Internet, so you will be able to use:
"links http://www.gentoo.org/" (without quotes, of course)  links is a
console-based web browser.

That will give you access to the Gentoo site and the Handbook.

Doing it the way I've done it requires that you be familiar, or become
familiar with the console.  You pretty much follow the instructions from
the Handbook, and you will learn what makes Gentoo tick.  There is
information and are links to information in the Handbook, that help.

Oh, and a couple of other things regarding links: 1. When you want to
download something, do not click on it - instead, use the arrow keys to
navigate to the file and use the 'd' key - this will bring up a dialog.
 You can append a path to the beginning, by moving your cursor there and
entering the path - I recommend '/mnt/gentoo/' if you are going to use
the standard path for Gentoo.  2.  You can navigate to pages you've been
to before by using the left arrow key (the equivalent of the back
button), or the right arrow key (the equivalent of the forward button).
 3. It is better to navigate on a page by using page up and page down.

The only other advice I have is, make sure you back everything up, in
case you want to go back, read the handbook carefully, and don't forget
to set your password.

Regards,
Chris

Terry Eck wrote:
> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.
> 
> Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.
> 
> Terry Eck
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=SC3m
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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[benedikt]

my first linux system was suse, then i switched to fedora...after a
while i changed to debian then ubuntu....

then after a few conversations i switched to gentoo, but i had a lot of
help from personen who worked very long ;) with gentoo.

gentoo love it or had it ;)

Am Sonntag, den 01.10.2006, 15:18 -0400 schrieb Chris Walters:

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user (the way I learnt it)

[HXC]

Hey welcome onboard!  :-)

I printed the handbookfor easy reference. With the handbook in my hand 
doing a manual install was pretty easy. Good luck!

benedikt wrote:
> my first linux system was suse, then i switched to fedora...after a
> while i changed to debian then ubuntu....
>
> then after a few conversations i switched to gentoo, but i had a lot of
> help from personen who worked very long ;) with gentoo.
>
> gentoo love it or had it ;)
>
> Am Sonntag, den 01.10.2006, 15:18 -0400 schrieb Chris Walters:
>
>   

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 13:08:25 -0500, Terry Eck wrote:

> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.

I take it you'll be installing Gentoo alongside SUSE to start with. This
is the best way, it lets you take your time over the installation while
still having a running system to fall back on.

The default method is a Stage 3 installation nowadays, which uses mainly
pre-compiled packages to get you going. If you also download the packages
CD, you'll also be able to install a full desktop from there, so you'll
have less waiting around. The last full Gentoo install I did took just
over an hour, from fdisk to running KDE. However, for your first attempt
allow plenty of time, at least half a day, preferably a full day.

I would avoid the graphical installer because the manual install teaches
you more about how Gentoo works and makes life easier for you in the long
run, mainly because it ensures you read and understand the handbook.

Follow the handbook religiously, if you think there is a quicker way to
do something, forget it, the people writing the handbook know their
stuff. Don't start improvising until you have three successful installs
behind you.

Most importantly, there is plenty of help available here and in the
forums, but read the handbook first - then ask.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"You want us to do WHAT?" - Ancient Chinese wall engineer.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Colleen Beamer]

Terry Eck wrote:
> I've been a SuSE user for several years now currently running 10.0.
> I'm interested in giving gentoo a try with the object of converting
> from SuSE to gentoo. I've been looking at this list for a couple of
> weeks and have determined that there may be a steep learning curve
> on my part converting. Any words of advice on getting up to speed
> using gentoo before I install it.
> 
> Thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.

I pretty much think that if I can install and run Gentoo then, anyone
willing to give it an honest try can do it. I *do not* have a technical
educational background.

I writing this to retiterate what all other responses have said - read
the Handbook and any other HowTo documents on the Gentoo site.  Books
have been written for other Linux distros, but no one has written one
for Gentoo - it's not needed.  Gentoo documentation is superlative and
exceptionally easy to follow!

If the something in the documentation needs clarification, or you run
into a snag, the people on this list are always ready to lend a helping
hand and in my experience you'll always be steered in the right direction.

Good luck!  At the risk of sounding biased, Gentoo is the best distro of
any!  I've used Redhat/Fedora Core, Mandrake (before it became
Mandriva), Mepis, and Ubuntu/Kubuntu and you couldn't pay me to go back
to any of those!

Regards,

Colleen

-- 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Terry Eck]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post. I will give gentoo
a try to see how it goes. I remember my first attempt at switching
from redhat 5.1 to SuSE 6.2 many years ago. Although linux is linux,
the different distributions implement and configure the software in
their own manner.

Terry

BTW: Not that it matters but my first experience with linux was
around 1994 using Slackware 1.2.0. Back then it was common to
configure and compile the kernel for sound. Linux has come a long
ways and in a way I'm looking forward to "getting my hands dirty"
like in the old days.

-- 
SUSE LINUX 10.0 (i586) -- 2.6.13-15.12-default  --  Sun 10/01/06
   8:00pm  up  23:53,  4 users,  load average: 0.35, 0.28, 0.27

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Re: [gentoo-user] Possible new gentoo user

[Philip Webb]

061001 Terry Eck wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who responded to my post.
> I will give gentoo a try to see how it goes.
> my first experience with linux was around 1994 using Slackware 1.2.0.
> Back then it was common to configure and compile the kernel for sound.

You really should have no problem with Gentoo with that experience !
You've had a lot of generally sensible advice while I've been asleep (smile).

I installed Gentoo exactly 3 yrs ago & have never had regrets or problems.
Read the installation guide & the manual carefully before you start,
have printed copies at hand & follow to the letter what they say.
Avoid the GUI installer, which is not a finished product yet.
I did a Stage-3 GRP install, which gives you binaries to get started.

After that, it's upto you how often you update packages:
I do 'eix-sync' every Sat to get the list of what's available,
check the nice colored list of what's changed during the week,
then 'emerge' those which seem to be worthwhile.
There are 3 levels of reliability: 'x86' (or whatever your platform is)
has become something like Debian 'stable', ie rather conservative;
'~x86' sb useable, but perhaps not for basic system items when new;
'hard-masked' is only for people willing to test buggy stuff.

My compiling get done on a separate KDE desktop, while I do other things:
Open Office takes 6 hr (overnight), but there is a binary, if you want it;
a middle-sized set of KDE pkgs takes perhaps 3,5 hr ;
otherwise, the longest compiles are c 1 hr (my CPU is an AMD 2500+).

Gentoo is for people who want to manage their own boxes:
you will need to edit configure files, but they're very well annotated.
You should have a reasonably fast CPU , >= 512 MB memory & broadband,
tho' some hardy people seem to run Gentoo with smaller resources.

Let us all know what happens !

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========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
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