[gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Ryan Viljoen]

[quote]
Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux.

Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use
a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere
and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell
others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux.
[/quote]

http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml

-- 
"When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices...
that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows"

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Chris Cox]

On Wednesday 03 August 2005 06:20 pm, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> [quote]
> Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux.
>
> Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use
> a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere
> and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell
> others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux.
> [/quote]
>
> http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml
>

Are you nuts?  There are already floods of n00bs trying out Gentoo that 
haven't ever even used Linux. 

If we all did what you suggest we'd have even more showing up, logging on the 
irc using superuser root and asking stupid questions thats covered in the 
install guide.

-- 
Chris
Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 
 08:39:18 up 1 day, 13:46,  6 users,  load average: 0.25, 0.16, 0.18
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Ryan Viljoen]

Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
You never asked a stupid question?
No I thought not.
Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...

*sigh*

On 8/4/05, Chris Cox <yeahsowhat@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 August 2005 06:20 pm, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> > [quote]
> > Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux.
> >
> > Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use
> > a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere
> > and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell
> > others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux.
> > [/quote]
> >
> > http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml
> >
> 
> Are you nuts?  There are already floods of n00bs trying out Gentoo that
> haven't ever even used Linux.
> 
> If we all did what you suggest we'd have even more showing up, logging on the
> irc using superuser root and asking stupid questions thats covered in the
> install guide.
> 
> --
> Chris
> Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP
>  08:39:18 up 1 day, 13:46,  6 users,  load average: 0.25, 0.16, 0.18
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
"When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices...
that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows"

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Chris Cox]

On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
> You never asked a stupid question?
> No I thought not.
> Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
>
> *sigh*

I was of course just kidding.  I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right 
choice for everyone.  Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and 
fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses.

DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux 
should turn to?
-- 
Chris
Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 
 09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07,  6 users,  load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Eddie Mihalow Jr]

Daniel da Veiga wrote:
> The facts are:
> 
> - Internet is powerful.
> - Gentoo and internet talk like friends.
> - If you can read and surf the web, you can use almost any program
> with a fair documentation and bit of geekness.
> - Gentoo is widely documented.
> - There's always us to point newbies to RTFM and/or search at Google
> :) at the second mail they'll think better and search twice before
> asking another question and try everything before asking us again.
> 
> In no time, you'll get a power user answering questions instead of
> asking. That's evolution baby!
> 
> On 8/4/05, Willie Wong <wwong@princeton.edu> wrote:
> 
>>On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 10:50:17AM -0400, Michael Crute wrote:
>>
>>>At the expense of sounding like an "Elitist Chowderhead" I kind of agree
>>>with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora
>>>and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off
>>>far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend
>>>Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see
>>>normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo
>>>when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed
>>>off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze.
>>>Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.
>>>
>>>-Mike
>>>
>>
>>I disagree. I think we should pit people first against OpenBSD, then
>>FreeBSD, then Gentoo Linux, then Debian, then SuSE, then
>>Fedora/Mandrake... which ever one they manage to install on the first
>>try (of course, following a manual) should be they one they start
>>from.....
>>
>>Of course, a sadistic bastard like myself (and since I am speaking
>>from experience, probably also masochistic) should have no say in this
>>matters. q=
>>
>>I kid of course. I have had at least UserLand experience with RedHat
>>and Solaris before I installed a *nix system on my own computer. With
>>a manual in hand, even the BSDs were quite easy to set up.
>>Unfortunately a BIOS bug in my IBM Thinkpad means that openbsd killed
>>it for good (or at least until a complete system wipe).
>>
>>But seriously, I don't see really problems with n00bs using Gentoo as
>>a starter distro, so long as the said n00bs knows the power of
>>google...
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>W
>>--
>>Once you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall.
>>Sortir en Pantoufles: up 3 days, 23:45
>>--
>>gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
I agree 100%. Does any other distro have better forums and/or mailing 
lists? I think not.
So many times I "emerge -uD world" and have something break. But guess 
what? The	
answer is only the Gentoo Forum away, cause some poor rascal or 
rascalette has had the same
problem and usually has the solution. Gentooists Untie! er Unite
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Michael Sullivan]

Refer to the "Elitest Chowderheads" thread on fedora-list@redhat.com...

On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 15:50 +0200, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
> You never asked a stupid question?
> No I thought not.
> Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> On 8/4/05, Chris Cox <yeahsowhat@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday 03 August 2005 06:20 pm, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> > > [quote]
> > > Let the world know that you run on Gentoo Linux.
> > >
> > > Put a Powered by Gentoo image on your Gentoo powered web sites or use
> > > a Gentoo Badge on your web page, blog, forum signature or elsewhere
> > > and link back to http://www.gentoo.org - help us spread the word! Tell
> > > others how happy you are with Gentoo Linux.
> > > [/quote]
> > >
> > > http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/graphics.xml
> > >
> > 
> > Are you nuts?  There are already floods of n00bs trying out Gentoo that
> > haven't ever even used Linux.
> > 
> > If we all did what you suggest we'd have even more showing up, logging on the
> > irc using superuser root and asking stupid questions thats covered in the
> > install guide.
> > 
> > --
> > Chris
> > Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP
> >  08:39:18 up 1 day, 13:46,  6 users,  load average: 0.25, 0.16, 0.18
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices...
> that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows"
> 

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Michael Sullivan]

On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote:
> On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> > Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
> > You never asked a stupid question?
> > No I thought not.
> > Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
> >
> > *sigh*
> 
> I was of course just kidding.  I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right 
> choice for everyone.  Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and 
> fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses.
> 
> DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux 
> should turn to?
> -- 
> Chris
> Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 
>  09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07,  6 users,  load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19

My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0.  I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core
1.  I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used
Linux before.  I certainly wouldn't have understood it.  Think of it as
a test of the strong:  Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all
kinds of problems and ask stupid questions.  Most will get frustrated
and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly
distrobution.  The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to
the community.  When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid
questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know
that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it.  The newbies like
that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from
those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no
matter how hard you try.  Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's
what MSWindows is for.)  If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and
stick to it then they are worthy of our time...

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Daniel da Veiga]

Agreed in all terms!!!

On 8/4/05, Michael Sullivan <michael@espersunited.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote:
> > On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> > > Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
> > > You never asked a stupid question?
> > > No I thought not.
> > > Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
> > >
> > > *sigh*
> >
> > I was of course just kidding.  I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right
> > choice for everyone.  Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and
> > fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses.
> >
> > DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux
> > should turn to?
> > --
> > Chris
> > Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP
> >  09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07,  6 users,  load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19
> 
> My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0.  I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core
> 1.  I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used
> Linux before.  I certainly wouldn't have understood it.  Think of it as
> a test of the strong:  Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all
> kinds of problems and ask stupid questions.  Most will get frustrated
> and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly
> distrobution.  The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to
> the community.  When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid
> questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know
> that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it.  The newbies like
> that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from
> those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no
> matter how hard you try.  Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's
> what MSWindows is for.)  If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and
> stick to it then they are worthy of our time...
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Ryan Viljoen]

Gentoo was my first serious distribution, I first tried Red Hat and
got completely put off. I was than introduced to Gentoo and have been
there ever since. Putting a Gentoo Badge in your sig or on your forum
will attract both n00bs yes and other linux users alike. Does it
really mean that the end of the world? Each to their own I guess.


On 8/4/05, Michael Sullivan <michael@espersunited.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote:
> > On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> > > Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
> > > You never asked a stupid question?
> > > No I thought not.
> > > Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
> > >
> > > *sigh*
> >
> > I was of course just kidding.  I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right
> > choice for everyone.  Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and
> > fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses.
> >
> > DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux
> > should turn to?
> > --
> > Chris
> > Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP
> >  09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07,  6 users,  load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19
> 
> My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0.  I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core
> 1.  I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used
> Linux before.  I certainly wouldn't have understood it.  Think of it as
> a test of the strong:  Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all
> kinds of problems and ask stupid questions.  Most will get frustrated
> and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly
> distrobution.  The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to
> the community.  When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid
> questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know
> that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it.  The newbies like
> that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from
> those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no
> matter how hard you try.  Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's
> what MSWindows is for.)  If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and
> stick to it then they are worthy of our time...
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
"When you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic Voices...
that's nothing - when you play it forward it installs Windows"

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Michael Crute]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3388 bytes --]

At the expense of sounding like an "Elitist Chowderhead" I kind of agree 
with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora 
and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off 
far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend 
Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see 
normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo 
when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed 
off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze. 
Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.

-Mike

On 8/4/05, Daniel da Veiga <danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Agreed in all terms!!!
> 
> On 8/4/05, Michael Sullivan <michael@espersunited.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 09:03 -0500, Chris Cox wrote:
> > > On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
> > > > Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
> > > > You never asked a stupid question?
> > > > No I thought not.
> > > > Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
> > > >
> > > > *sigh*
> > >
> > > I was of course just kidding. I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the 
> right
> > > choice for everyone. Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding 
> and
> > > fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the 
> masses.
> > >
> > > DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to 
> Linux
> > > should turn to?
> > > --
> > > Chris
> > > Linux 2.6.12-gentoo-r6 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP
> > > 09:00:21 up 1 day, 14:07, 6 users, load average: 0.33, 0.23, 0.19
> >
> > My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0. I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora Core
> > 1. I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has never used
> > Linux before. I certainly wouldn't have understood it. Think of it as
> > a test of the strong: Newbies might choose Gentoo and run into all
> > kinds of problems and ask stupid questions. Most will get frustrated
> > and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more user-friendly
> > distrobution. The ones who stick around are the ones worth adding to
> > the community. When I first came to Gentoo I asked a lot of stupid
> > questions (still do) and I get frustrated with it sometimes but I know
> > that this is what I want and so I'll stick with it. The newbies like
> > that will stick around and they will ask stupid questions and learn from
> > those stupid questions and you will not be able to get rid of them no
> > matter how hard you try. Linux is not for the faint of heart (that's
> > what MSWindows is for.) If someone wants to learn Linux (Gentoo) and
> > stick to it then they are worthy of our time...
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Daniel da Veiga
> Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
> PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4222 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Willie Wong]

On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 10:50:17AM -0400, Michael Crute wrote:
> At the expense of sounding like an "Elitist Chowderhead" I kind of agree 
> with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora 
> and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off 
> far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend 
> Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see 
> normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo 
> when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed 
> off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze. 
> Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.
> 
> -Mike
> 

I disagree. I think we should pit people first against OpenBSD, then
FreeBSD, then Gentoo Linux, then Debian, then SuSE, then
Fedora/Mandrake... which ever one they manage to install on the first
try (of course, following a manual) should be they one they start
from.....

Of course, a sadistic bastard like myself (and since I am speaking
from experience, probably also masochistic) should have no say in this
matters. q=

I kid of course. I have had at least UserLand experience with RedHat
and Solaris before I installed a *nix system on my own computer. With
a manual in hand, even the BSDs were quite easy to set up.
Unfortunately a BIOS bug in my IBM Thinkpad means that openbsd killed
it for good (or at least until a complete system wipe). 

But seriously, I don't see really problems with n00bs using Gentoo as
a starter distro, so long as the said n00bs knows the power of
google...

Best, 

W
-- 
Once you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall.
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 3 days, 23:45
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Daniel da Veiga]

The facts are:

- Internet is powerful.
- Gentoo and internet talk like friends.
- If you can read and surf the web, you can use almost any program
with a fair documentation and bit of geekness.
- Gentoo is widely documented.
- There's always us to point newbies to RTFM and/or search at Google
:) at the second mail they'll think better and search twice before
asking another question and try everything before asking us again.

In no time, you'll get a power user answering questions instead of
asking. That's evolution baby!

On 8/4/05, Willie Wong <wwong@princeton.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 10:50:17AM -0400, Michael Crute wrote:
> > At the expense of sounding like an "Elitist Chowderhead" I kind of agree
> > with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora
> > and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off
> > far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend
> > Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see
> > normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gentoo
> > when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pissed
> > off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze.
> > Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> 
> I disagree. I think we should pit people first against OpenBSD, then
> FreeBSD, then Gentoo Linux, then Debian, then SuSE, then
> Fedora/Mandrake... which ever one they manage to install on the first
> try (of course, following a manual) should be they one they start
> from.....
> 
> Of course, a sadistic bastard like myself (and since I am speaking
> from experience, probably also masochistic) should have no say in this
> matters. q=
> 
> I kid of course. I have had at least UserLand experience with RedHat
> and Solaris before I installed a *nix system on my own computer. With
> a manual in hand, even the BSDs were quite easy to set up.
> Unfortunately a BIOS bug in my IBM Thinkpad means that openbsd killed
> it for good (or at least until a complete system wipe).
> 
> But seriously, I don't see really problems with n00bs using Gentoo as
> a starter distro, so long as the said n00bs knows the power of
> google...
> 
> Best,
> 
> W
> --
> Once you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall.
> Sortir en Pantoufles: up 3 days, 23:45
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Bryan Green]

I put Gentoo on my mom's computer.  I got tired of her asking me questions 
about her computer concerning the Windows OS, so I installed an OS *I* could 
help her maintain, and not feel disgusted with.  Just wanted to share that...

Has anyone else out there put Gentoo on their parents computers?
 
-bryan

> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 10:50:17 -0400
> From: Michael Crute <mcrute@gmail.com>

> 
> At the expense of sounding like an "Elitist Chowderhead" I kind of agree=20
> with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora=
> =20
> and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off=
> =20
> far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend=20
> Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see=
> =20
> normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gento=
> o=20
> when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pisse=
> d=20
> off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze.=
> =20
> Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.
> 
> -Mike


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Philip Webb]

050804 Chris Cox wrote:
> On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen sighed:
>> Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
>> You never asked a stupid question?
>> No I thought not.
>> Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
> I was of course just kidding.
> I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right choice for everyone.
> Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and fancy GUI installers
> that other Distros have a seem to cater to the masses.
> DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro
> people new to Linux should turn to?

It's not whether they're new to Linux,
but whether they're new to system administration.
A good sysadmin who's known only Solaris or even M$
should be able to install Gentoo & quickly make it useful;
grannie, who's been using the Mandriva Linux her grandson installed for her,
should be very kindly encouraged to go back to his personal support.

Gentoo is for people who want to manage their own machine in their own way
& the real bouncer at the door is the DIY installation test.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Luke Albers]

On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 10:22 -0700, Bryan Green wrote:
> I put Gentoo on my mom's computer.  I got tired of her asking me questions 
> about her computer concerning the Windows OS, so I installed an OS *I* could 
> help her maintain, and not feel disgusted with.  Just wanted to share that...
> 
> Has anyone else out there put Gentoo on their parents computers?
>  
> -bryan

> 

I just bought my parents a new computer and am going to put gentoo on it
and vmware with windows for the occasion where they really do need
windows.  I can fix their problems better with linux, and my mom and
sister like to browse all kinds of crappy websites and end up with
spyware all over the place with windows.

I would reccommend gentoo to a noob any time.  Once you get past the
installation and get gnome running, anyone can use it.  I also think
that it is easier to install new software with gentoo than with other
distros.  One of my friends who doesnt know sh!t about computers
installed fedora, and almost every day he needs help figuring out how to
install some program.  I wish I had told him to go with gentoo, because
then he could just emerge pretty much anything he needs.

The people who would be confused with more advanced
configuration/administration/whatever are the same people who probably
dont need to do any of that stuff.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Craig Zeigler]

Chris Cox wrote:

>On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
>  
>
>>Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
>>You never asked a stupid question?
>>No I thought not.
>>Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
>>
>>*sigh*
>>    
>>
>
>I was of course just kidding.  I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the right 
>choice for everyone.  Some people I'm sure would prefer hand holding and 
>fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to cator to the masses.
>
>DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to Linux 
>should turn to?
>  
>
In one word... YES!. If you're going to learn your way around Linux 
well, why not start with something that doesn't teach you rely on GUIs 
and crap like that. When it all goes south, you're left iwth a command 
line. I guess I'm from the school that started wtih computer back where 
there was no GUI. The closest thing I had to a GUI was an ncurses like 
system, that really didn't work all that well.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Jonathan Nichols]

I'm not sure what's worse.. the elitist chowderheads, or you bloody top 
posters that don't trim replies!!

:P

Solve the top posting problem. If you see a co-worker top posting, club 
them with a shoe.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[kashani]

Philip Webb wrote:
> Gentoo is for people who want to manage their own machine in their own way
> & the real bouncer at the door is the DIY installation test.
> 

This thread is a bit more rational, so no Elitist Chowderhead subject 
this time. However...

	Does this mean now that I've been admining *nix for 9+ years and 
multiple Gentoo boxes for 3+ years that my decoder ring is in the mail? 
You know the one that gives me access to the auto installer where I edit 
a page of text around midnight, run the script/push the button, and wake 
up to a fresh Gentoo system?

	Or maybe it'll give me access to a catalyst tool (though I haven't 
tried out the latest one) that doesn't require virgin sacrifices to make 
me a fat and happy stage4 install?

	Gentoo might not be for everyone, but I don't see any point in making 
getting started any harder than it needs to be. It's not like any Linux 
system is complete nirvana once you start admining it. I'd rather users 
leave Gentoo because they don't like/need/want portage than never trying 
it because the install was or seemed onerous.

As for newbie questions, a simpler install is as likely to decrease 
overall questions as it is to increase them IMO.

kashani
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Ryan Viljoen]

The original point of this was to promote Gentoo. You guys and gals
are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves. When a mate
asks me what OS I am running I say Gentoo Linux. If he or she wants a
copy I gladly give it to them and help them out cause someone awhile
back took the time to answer my noob questions. If he or she doesnt
have such great knowledge of computers than yeah I hand them a Ubuntu
Linux CD, no harm done. The fact remains, why not be proud of Gentoo,
I fail to see what is so bad about putting a small 80x15 or 80x50
image either in your signiture our on your site?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Daniel da Veiga]

Yeah, I think its great! I would buy the t-shirts if I wasn't so far away!

Once you get it well configured, its nice, its fast, its Gentoo!!!
I've been "migrating" a lot of users after showing my own box to them,
and most say the same, Gentoo is a learning experience, people start
installing it and end up knowing a LOT about Linux.
I don't mind answering noob questions, even if the answer would be a
RTFM or point them to a web search, as long as people use it, have fun
and learn with it. Most of them will come back and their experiences
will help others. Add the fact that the most different
hardware/software combinations we get, the most people will have an
answer when asking the list, because someone out there had some
similar issue long ago and fixed it somehow.

On 8/4/05, Ryan Viljoen <ravilj@gmail.com> wrote:
> The original point of this was to promote Gentoo. You guys and gals
> are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves. When a mate
> asks me what OS I am running I say Gentoo Linux. If he or she wants a
> copy I gladly give it to them and help them out cause someone awhile
> back took the time to answer my noob questions. If he or she doesnt
> have such great knowledge of computers than yeah I hand them a Ubuntu
> Linux CD, no harm done. The fact remains, why not be proud of Gentoo,
> I fail to see what is so bad about putting a small 80x15 or 80x50
> image either in your signiture our on your site?
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Paul Kain]

nice signature Ryan

http://chill.vault9.net/forums/Ravilj-m2166.html

email me that image please?

thanks :D


On 8/4/05, Ryan Viljoen <ravilj@gmail.com> wrote:
> The original point of this was to promote Gentoo. You guys and gals
> are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves. When a mate
> asks me what OS I am running I say Gentoo Linux. If he or she wants a
> copy I gladly give it to them and help them out cause someone awhile
> back took the time to answer my noob questions. If he or she doesnt
> have such great knowledge of computers than yeah I hand them a Ubuntu
> Linux CD, no harm done. The fact remains, why not be proud of Gentoo,
> I fail to see what is so bad about putting a small 80x15 or 80x50
> image either in your signiture our on your site?
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
>

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[George Roberts]

Craig Zeigler wrote:

> Chris Cox wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 04 August 2005 08:50 am, Ryan Viljoen wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Yeah so you just skipped n00b status?
>>> You never asked a stupid question?
>>> No I thought not.
>>> Thats the spirit lets keep Gentoo to ourselves so it can grow...
>>>
>>> *sigh*
>>>   
>>
>>
>> I was of course just kidding.  I do like Gentoo but hey, it isn't the 
>> right choice for everyone.  Some people I'm sure would prefer hand 
>> holding and fancy GUI installers that other Distros have a seem to 
>> cator to the masses.
>>
>> DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to 
>> Linux should turn to?
>>  
>>
> In one word... YES!. If you're going to learn your way around Linux 
> well, why not start with something that doesn't teach you rely on GUIs 
> and crap like that. When it all goes south, you're left iwth a command 
> line. I guess I'm from the school that started wtih computer back 
> where there was no GUI. The closest thing I had to a GUI was an 
> ncurses like system, that really didn't work all that well.

I agree with Craig.  But in a broader sense, if anybody is to learn 
their way around a computer, start them out by building "their own 
computer".  Start them out with a box of parts and an install cd.  Give 
them diagram how the parts go and a Phillips head screwdriver (less 
tools required than assembling a swing set).  Teach them "fear not the 
black screen with the white letters".  Watch their joy as the learn that 
their new born computer can now stand on it's own by  installing the 
base layout.  Hear them brag that their child can walk because it has 
learned X windows server.  Suffer through the screen shots once it has 
grown to a full desktop. 
Never more will these persons quiver at the very thought of tearing  the 
sacred plastic that contains the mystical restore cd.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Paul Kain]

My girlfriend, who has never used windows properley before, let alone
linux, uses my server to irc with using irssi

no gui, all command line, hardc0re girlfriend... not really but damn I wish...

On 8/4/05, Bryan Green <bgreen@nas.nasa.gov> wrote:
> 
> I put Gentoo on my mom's computer.  I got tired of her asking me questions
> about her computer concerning the Windows OS, so I installed an OS *I* could
> help her maintain, and not feel disgusted with.  Just wanted to share that...
> 
> Has anyone else out there put Gentoo on their parents computers?
> 
> -bryan
> 
> > Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 10:50:17 -0400
> > From: Michael Crute <mcrute@gmail.com>
> 
> >
> > At the expense of sounding like an "Elitist Chowderhead" I kind of agree=20
> > with Chris. I'm fairly new to Gentoo (but not to Linux). I came from Fedora=
> > =20
> > and must say that personally Gentoo makes way more sense and pisses me off=
> > =20
> > far less than any RedHat distro. But that said I would never recommend=20
> > Gentoo to a noob unless they where just as geeky as I. I would rather see=
> > =20
> > normal people use distros like Mandriva and Linspire then graduate to Gento=
> > o=20
> > when and if they are ready than to have them start at Gentoo then get pisse=
> > d=20
> > off at their own inability to make the thing work and go back to Windoze.=
> > =20
> > Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.
> >
> > -Mike
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 724 bytes --]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:53:38 -0400 Craig Zeigler <craig@cfrscca.net>
wrote:
| >DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to
| >Linux  should turn to?
| >  
| >
| In one word... YES!. If you're going to learn your way around Linux 
| well, why not start with something that doesn't teach you rely on GUIs
| and crap like that.

If you're going to learn Linux, why not start with a distribution which
caters for newbies when making design decisions, rather than one which
assumes that its users know what they're doing?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Jamie Dobbs]

> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:53:38 -0400 Craig Zeigler <craig@cfrscca.net>
> wrote:
> | >DO you really think Gentoo should be the first Distro people new to
> | >Linux  should turn to?
> | >
> | >
> | In one word... YES!. If you're going to learn your way around Linux
> | well, why not start with something that doesn't teach you rely on GUIs
> | and crap like that.
>
> If you're going to learn Linux, why not start with a distribution which
> caters for newbies when making design decisions, rather than one which
> assumes that its users know what they're doing?

The reason I went to Gentoo above all other distros it is superior
package/dependancy management and the wealth of software available for it.
In my view all other distros pale in comparison and the various nightmares
with package management and the small choice of available software may
make hte users "introduction" enough to put the off.
Another fantastic thing about Gentoo is the level of documentation and the
support structures (such as this mailing list) where newbies can (should?)
be able to get all of the help that they need.... or do we need another
mailing list "Gentoo Newbie" specifically for that?

Cheers

Jamie

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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Willie Wong]

On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 01:41:03AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> If you're going to learn Linux, why not start with a distribution which
> caters for newbies when making design decisions, rather than one which
> assumes that its users know what they're doing?
> 
I partially agree. 

In my mind, learning linux is about two things: 
  1) getting familiarized with the user interface and userland tools
  to be productive in everyday tasks.

  2) system administration. 
And I happen to believe that it would be unfair to force 2 on someone
who is not familiar with 1. If I were to set out on a crusade
converting people to linux, I would first give out Knoppix CDs for
them to try out the environment. A little hand holding should allow
them to get over the fear of the CLI. After building up their
confidence and some basic skills (understanding the directory
structure, basic bash bulletins; simple things), then depending on
their level of commitment, I will give them one of Gentoo, Debian, or
Mandrake. 

One of the things I wished someone explained to me when I first
installed gentoo is choosing the various tools for system
administration. The pros/cons of different cron daemons, different
MTAs, different logging utilities. My choice of vixie-cron + metalog +
logrotate + postfix is arbitrary and contrived, and sometimes I wonder
whether I would be better off running syslog + qmail. But I do not
feel like completely rebuilding my system from sketch to redo those
design decisions. Heck, if people come to me for advice, I would
probably just tell them to install ssmtp...

Anyway, my point is that it is only harmful if an individual relies
too much on a gui for system administration. People should be forced
to learn the joy of administrating by hand editing the config files in
/etc. But for someone who just want to try out "this lie knocks
thingie" or for someone looking for open alternatives of userland
tools, a pretty/easy to use GUI might probably be a better and gentler
introduction to free software. 

W

-- 
   YAAH! DEATH TO OATMEAL!
		  -- Calvin
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 4 days,  8:30
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Holly Bostick]

Ryan Viljoen schreef:
> You guys and gals  are all so proud of it but want to keep it to yourselves.

And what is pride, and when does one feel proud?

When one has done something that is hard for oneself to accomplish,
successfully.

You felt proud when you first tied your own shoes, after weeks/months of
trying (and failing). Your parents felt proud of you when you spoke your
first understandable word, after months/years of trying (and failing). I
felt proud when I got five Linux distros and two versions of Windows
multibooting on the same box, because when I 'decided' that's what I
needed/wanted to do, I had no idea how to do it and make it work to the
specifications needed to solve the problem I perceived at the time.

Now I'm proud that I have enough Linux knowledge (and patience) to
compute totally without Windows (the OS; I still use several Windows
programs and have no ethical issue with that, as the Windows OS and
applications designed to run under that OS are separate entities, imo,
and therefore separately judged), and enough Linux confidence that there
is no currently-known impetus that will 'force' me to install it (though
I recognize that there are still areas that I don't know enough about
that could compel me to do so in an 'emergency'). I am also proud to
have enough confidence in my knowledge of Gentoo to say that this is
"my" distro, which I will stick with, and even when I break it, I can
fix it (or I will reinstall it if necessary); I no longer feel that
breakages are unsolveable, or that the possible necessity for a
reinstall means that it's Gentoo's "fault", that Gentoo is really
"shit", or that I'm a failure at Linux in general, or Gentoo in
particular (and I should get Ubuntu or something, which btw, I really
didn't like at all).

You're damn right I'm proud of myself-- it's taken me some 3 years to
build this confidence, and some 1.5 to build this trust in Gentoo (and
myself using Gentoo).

The point is:

1. Linux itself is "hard" (especially for migrators from Windows)

2. Gentoo is a "hard" version of Linux (especially for Linspire-type users).

I have nothing against "promoting" Gentoo, per se (though I don't
particularly see why it's necessary to "promote" anything)-- I certainly
have no particular desire to "keep it to myself" in some 'elitist
chowderhead' sense.

But I have kindness in my heart, and I am not going to randomly
"encourage" complete strangers to do something double-difficult just
because I like it a lot and think they might too, any more than I would
drag someone I was dating out bungee-jumping on our second date. They
might like it, but most people have a lot of fears that they would need
to overcome in order to do so, and I don't know them well enough to
judge whether they are in a position to begin that process.

Kindness in my heart, because pride is something one earns, earning
takes work, and kind people don't ask others to do extra work to earn a
reward that the other may not value (and without knowledge of the
individual, I cannot know if the other will value the pride earned by
learning Gentoo, as opposed to a Linux that doesn't require so much work
to reward one in a lesser way).

Anyway, that's my two Eurocents; this isn't worth actually "fighting"
about, as if one wants to use the logos, one can, if not, one won't.

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Walter Dnes]

On Thu, Aug 04, 2005 at 09:27:58AM -0500, Michael Sullivan wrote

> My first Linux was Red Hat 8.0.  I then went to RH 9.0 and Fedora
> Core 1.  I for one would not recommend Gentoo to a person who has
> never used Linux before.  I certainly wouldn't have understood it.

  What he said.  Around 1997 spam started getting really bad and my ISP
offered users a spam filter.  The user interface was actually a
front-end to a procmail configurator.  I dove in and started manually
configuring procmail from the commandline.  I had always been a
command-line-commando in DOS, and I picked up the unix commandline
reasonably quickly.  In September 1999, I bought a Dell with Win98SE
with 128 megs RAM and 450 mhz cpu (that's my current emergency backup
machine).  That left me with the old Pentium-Pro 120 mhz machine with 32
megs of RAM that originally came with Win95.

  My experimenting with procmail was eating into my 30 hours per month
dialup account.  People on the procmail mailing list mentioned that they
were running procmail on linux.  I picked up a remaindered copy of a
Redhat linux 5.2 book with CDs (6.2 was released April 2000) and
installed it on my old clunker.  Initially, I used it for screwing
around with procmail filters, but I also discovered linux had Netscape
4, and various email and news readers, plus primitive word processing
and spreadsheets.  I got another machine (433 mhz, 128 megs RAM white
box) strictly for linux, and went online with Redhat 6.2 or 6.3.  I
slowly spent more and more time with the linux machine and less with the
Windows machine, until I eventually decided to reformat the Windows
machine and install Redhat linux on it as well.

  I played around with a few other distros, but always went back to
Redhat.  I did try CRUX, where I first learned "make menuconfig" and
chrooting for install, etc.  About that time, I found Mozilla 0.95
painfully slow on my old 433 and 450 mhz machines.  That's when I first
experimented with custom builds from tarballs.  "-O2 -march=i686"
speeded up Mozilla.  I also found out "the hard way" that -O3 and
various extra unrolling options were "not a good thing".

  Redhat 7.3 was probably the best end-user distro of its time.  Redhat
announced they were dropping support as of end of 2003.  I switched to
Debian in fall of 2003, where I stayed until summer of 2004.  I had
grown tired of Redhat's constant upgrade treadmill, so at first I loved
Debian's lack thereof.  However, it bit me in the late summer of 2004
when the latest Firefox and Realplayer versions refused to install, due
to Debian's ancient gtk libs, or whatever.  I switched back to CRUX,
which was more uptodate, and also assumed "-O2 -march=i686" rather than
i386.

  Because my old Dell needed all the help it could get, I was always
asking about more optimization.  People suggested that if I really
wanted more optimization, I should switch to Gentoo.  Approx the end of
2004 I did exactly that.

  Even with that background, my transition to Gentoo wasn't 100% smooth.
If I had tried jumping from Windows direct to Gentoo, without 4+ years
of linux usage, I would've been lost.

> Think of it as a test of the strong:  Newbies might choose Gentoo and
> run into all kinds of problems and ask stupid questions.  Most will
> get frustrated and either leave Linux altogether or seek out a more
> user-friendly distrobution.  The ones who stick around are the
> ones worth adding to the community.

  There's a concept in emergency medical battlefield treatment called
triage.  Divide the wounded into 3 groups...

  1) Slight injuries; will recover fully even if you don't treat them.
  2) Moderate injuries; can recover fully, but only if you treat them.
  3) Mortally wounded; will die regardless of how much effort you put
     into treating them.

  The best use of resources is with the second group.  Similarly, we
might want to set up new-user list to help those people who come close
to being able to get going with Gentoo on their own, but have one or two
"showstopper" problems that are easily solvable by experienced users.
Maybe even some sort of "level 1 helpdesk" concept.  A mailing list
works only if you have internet connectivity and email both functioning.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca
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RE: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Daevid Vincent]

Does "Alice" really consitute a girlfriend?  ;^p

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Kain [mailto:paul.kain@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:20 PM
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges
> 
> no gui, all command line, hardc0re girlfriend... not really 
> but damn I wish...

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RE: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Badges

[Tibdixious, Daiajo]

Walter Dnes [mailto:waltdnes@waltdnes.org] Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005
11:41 PM
>  Even with that background, my transition to Gentoo wasn't 100%
smooth.
>If I had tried jumping from Windows direct to Gentoo, without 4+ years
>of linux usage, I would've been lost.

I think you are assuming that a Gentoo user would leap right in
to use all of Gentoo's features, which is not necessarily the case.

I've worked on VMS for 20 years (so the command line is not unusual),
and done a few years of C programming on Tru64 Unix, and some trivial
user admin (before even the shadow idea came along), and all this was
more than 10 years ago. I've been on windows for the last 5 years,
telneting to a VMS box to do work.

I followed the AMD64 installation guide carefully, and the only thing
that I fell over on was that the live CD makes the drive it is in
the main drive, while after you boot off the hard drive, the CD
drives may be in a different order. I thought my drive was broken,
and had to manually frig with fstab, which I would have preferred
not to do.

The guide also implies that if you use genkernel, it will be just
like the live CD boot, and either I stuffed that up or its lying.

Anyway, at the moment I'm just playing KDE games.

I also put the "power ride" badge on my Windows desktop at work.

Oh, I also had SUSE briefly on the system, nice graphical installation,
reiserfs kept failing fsck spuriously, finally booted,
changed the root password, would not boot again, would not let
me logon as root. Anyway, did not learn anything. During the Gentoo
install I learned heaps.

P.S. Setting up GRUB was by far the easiest part.
--
daiajo@acslink.net.au Contra Valere

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