[gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Chris White]

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So, wondering why people use Gentoo.  Put [dev] or something if you're an 
actual gentoo dev and [user] if you're a user.  Doesn't need to be fancy, you 
can put "community" or something if that's all you want.  All responses off 
list please.  Thanks.
-- 
Chris White
Gentoo Developer
A+ | MCSE
Mobile: 999-999-9999
Fax: 999-999-9999
Skype: 999-999-9999
Sattelite Phone: 999-999-9999
Home Phone: 999-999-9999

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[John J. Foster]

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[user]

source-based
control
documentaion


-- 
In all the millions of years dinosaurs roamed this planet, did any of
them feel the need to invent, say, nuclear weapons?           Mickeyz

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Lord Sauron]

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On Thursday 07 September 2006 17:31, Chris White wrote:
> So, wondering why people use Gentoo.  Put [dev] or something if
> you're an actual gentoo dev and [user] if you're a user.  Doesn't
> need to be fancy, you can put "community" or something if that's all
> you want.  All responses off list please.  Thanks.

[user] [dev -wannabe]

o high level of control
o smaller memory footprint (saved my laptop from destruction)
o amazingly good community
o adequate administrative tools
o it just plain old works (unless I do something to it - but that's my 
own fault)

-- 
http://lordsauronthegreat.googlepages.com/

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Statux]

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[snip]

> All responses off list please.  Thanks.

[snip]

Just pointing that one out as 2 people have missed it already :)

-Statux


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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Zac Slade]

On Thursday 07 September 2006 19:31, Chris White wrote:
> So, wondering why people use Gentoo.  Put [dev] or something if you're an
> actual gentoo dev and [user] if you're a user.  Doesn't need to be fancy,
> you can put "community" or something if that's all you want.  All responses
> off list please.  Thanks.
Please read:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
-- 
Zac Slade
krakrjak@volumehost.net
ICQ:1415282 YM:krakrjak AIM:ttyp99
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Iain Buchanan]

On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 21:40 -0400, Statux wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> > All responses off list please.  Thanks.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Just pointing that one out as 2 people have missed it already :)

what about everyone else who might be interested in the answer?
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free trip
around the Sun.

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Timothy A. Holmes]

 
> So, wondering why people use Gentoo.  Put [dev] or something if you're
an
> actual gentoo dev and [user] if you're a user.  Doesn't need to be
fancy,
> you
> can put "community" or something if that's all you want.  All
responses
> off
> list please.  Thanks.

[Timothy A. Holmes] 

[user]

I reply here because I, like others am interested in the responses as
well

Documentation
CONTROL -- configure it the way I want it
Great user support
Fun challenge



Timothy A. Holmes
IT Manager / Network Admin / Web Master / Computer Teacher
 
Medina Christian Academy
A Higher Standard...
 
Jeremiah 33:3
Jeremiah 29:11
Esther 4:14


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Rafael Barrera Oro]

[Rafael Barrera Oro] [User]

I entered the Linux world using SUSE, in time, it began to have 
humongous circular dependencies problems which drove me crazy. When i 
discover Gentoo, i found the portage system to be just what i was 
waiting for, an outstanding feature.

Also:

Love the "G" that looks like sorta like a pacman in the Gentoo logo
Lots of documentation and support

I am a user, but i sure would love to collaborate in some way in the 
future though
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Mikko Ruuska]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2006, Iain Buchanan wrote:

> On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 21:40 -0400, Statux wrote:
> > [snip]
> > 
> > > All responses off list please.  Thanks.
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > Just pointing that one out as 2 people have missed it already :)
> 
> what about everyone else who might be interested in the answer?

I should assume that Chris intends to collect the data and publish
it.  Although in my opinion he should have mentioned what he will do
with it.

Mikko

-- 
Mikko Ruuska, R & D 
Solid Information Technology -- http://www.solidtech.com
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Shawn Singh]

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[user]

Portage
Streamlined installation -- U nstall what U want, exactly what U want
...

Did I mention Portage :).

Shawn

On 9/8/06, Mikko Ruuska <mikko.ruuska@solidtech.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 08 Sep 2006, Iain Buchanan wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2006-09-07 at 21:40 -0400, Statux wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > > All responses off list please.  Thanks.
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > Just pointing that one out as 2 people have missed it already :)
> >
> > what about everyone else who might be interested in the answer?
>
> I should assume that Chris intends to collect the data and publish
> it.  Although in my opinion he should have mentioned what he will do
> with it.
>
> Mikko
>
> --
> Mikko Ruuska, R & D
> Solid Information Technology -- http://www.solidtech.com
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 

"...to raise a signal means to turn the light on; ... Responding to a
signal means turning the light off (and, under System V, hoping the
bulb won't blow when it's next turned on)..."

                        --- Dan Bernstein

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[michael]

User

I was attracted to Gentoo because it was different, and I'm attracted to
things like that.

Coming from a background of Slackware and Redhat, I fell in love with the ease
of portage

But I strongly believe one of the biggest strengths of Gentoo is this list. I
have learned more from reading this list and from implementing suggestions and
fixes from this list, than in my entire linux past.

Finally, I'm very interested in embedded Linux, and Gentoo embeds wonderfully.
I've built a robot running Gentoo out of a CF card, and the Gentoo structure
is very well suited to that.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Mike Myers]

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[user]

I use and stay with Gentoo because it is the distro that I started with.  I
was used to windows before I used Gentoo, let alone linux.  Once I got out
of the windows way of thinking, then Gentoo and linux just kind of feel a
bit natural.  I've stayed with Gentoo because I haven't seen a good reason
to switch to another one.  I like the fact that it doesn't try to appeal to
the masses, like Ubuntu, because the way things are done in those distros
makes customization more difficult for advanced users.  Also they are not as
easy to tinker with.  Gentoo worked for me when I was new, which was 6 years
ago, and it works great for me now that I'm quite familiar with it inside
and out.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Richard Fish]

BTW, if you want to share your responses on-list, great, but you might
want to be sure to CC Chris as well, as he requested responses
off-list, indicating he may not read -user.

-Richard
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Colleen Beamer]

Chris White wrote:
> So, wondering why people use Gentoo.  Put [dev] or something if you're an 
> actual gentoo dev and [user] if you're a user.  Doesn't need to be fancy, you 
> can put "community" or something if that's all you want.  All responses off 
> list please.  Thanks.

[user]

I'm not, but I *could* be a grandmother, so I guess I'm not the average
user.  I was first exposed to Gentoo when someone I know was touting the
control that it gave you.  I *hate* Gnome (sorry, don't mean to insult
any Gnome users - it's just a personal opinion).  The bloat of having to
have two desktops on my system drove me nuts when I was using Redhat and
then, Fedora.  So, like others, control is a *big* plus - I can install
only what I want!

Portage - in my opinion, it is the best package manager in Linux, bar
none.  In Redhat and Fedora, I was always in some sort of dependency
hell.  I learned how to get around most of it, but I don't have to worry
with Gentoo.  I would be royally "p*?@ed off" if was force to use a
package manager other than portage.

Growth - I never edited a configuration file before using Gentoo, nor
did I configure a kernel.  Strange as it may sound, it was a "trip" for
me to learn this stuff.  I've learned more about my system and Linux in
the year and a half of using it that I did in the 5 years that I used
Redhat/Fedora.

Documentation - Bar none, Gentoo has the best and most easily understood
online documentation.  In fact, I would rather read Gentoo documentation
that that of the LDP!

This list - I've always been able to turn to the list when I needed
help, was exposed to more patience that on any other list that I have
every been on - even those that were supposed to be for "newbies".  I've
always gotten help and the explanation was put in a way that I could
understand it (Thanks guys!)

Sorry, I know this is long, but there are just too many reasons why I
use Gentoo and why I will stick with it!  :-)

Take care,

Colleen

-- 

Registered Linux User #411143 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[John J. Foster]

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On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 06:33:40PM -0500, Colleen Beamer wrote:
> 
> I'm not, but I *could* be a grandmother, so I guess I'm not the average
> 
Well, I *couldn't* be a grandmother, because I am a grandfather who has
pretty much no clue what average is.

festus
-- 
In all the millions of years dinosaurs roamed this planet, did any of
them feel the need to invent, say, nuclear weapons?           Mickeyz

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RE: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Bob Young]

-----Original Message-----
From: Colleen Beamer [mailto:colleen.beamer@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:34 PM
To: chriswhite@gentoo.org; gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

Chris White wrote:
> So, wondering why people use Gentoo.  Put [dev] or something if you're
an 
> actual gentoo dev and [user] if you're a user.  Doesn't need to be
fancy, you 
> can put "community" or something if that's all you want.  All
responses off 
> list please.  Thanks.

[user]

I'm not, but I *could* be a grandmother, so I guess I'm not the average
user.  I was first exposed to Gentoo when someone I know was touting the
control that it gave you.  I *hate* Gnome (sorry, don't mean to insult
any Gnome users - it's just a personal opinion).  The bloat of having to
have two desktops on my system drove me nuts when I was using Redhat and
then, Fedora.  So, like others, control is a *big* plus - I can install
only what I want!

Nothing I can really disagree with. I *am* a grandfather, and have been
a hardware/firmware engineer for 15 years.

I've tried RedHat, SuSe, never could get past old Debian annoying text
scripts that just got in the way of what was really important, long live
Linux. Gentoo gets down to the technical details of actually installing
a new OS as anything in the Linux World...period.

Cheers.

-- 

BYoung_AT_Debug1.Com Dual 2.0GHz AMD Opteron...cheers (dual boot 32bit
Windows, 64bit Gentoo)

****** Quote:  *******************************************************


Portage - in my opinion, it is the best package manager in Linux, bar
none.

Documentation - Bar none, Gentoo has the best and most easily understood
online documentation

This list - I've always been able to turn to the list when I needed
help, (Thanks guys!)

Sorry, I know this is long, but there are just too many reasons why I
use Gentoo and why I will stick with it!  :-)

Take care,

Colleen


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-dev] Why you use Gentoo

[David Grant]

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On 9/7/06, Chris White <chriswhite@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> All responses off list please.


Please people, it's common sense to read emails before you reply to them.
:-)

-- 
David Grant
http://www.davidgrant.ca

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-dev] Why you use Gentoo

[Dale]

b.n. wrote:
>>
>>     All responses off list please. 
>>
>> Please people, it's common sense to read emails before you reply to
>> them. :-)
>
> It's even more common sense not to ask for off-list answers to a
> on-list post...
>
> m.

Plus some of us like to read them.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[darren kirby]

quoth the Dale:
> b.n. wrote:
> >>     All responses off list please.
> >>
> >> Please people, it's common sense to read emails before you reply to
> >> them. :-)
> >
> > It's even more common sense not to ask for off-list answers to a
> > on-list post...
> >
> > m.
>
> Plus some of us like to read them.  ;-)

Really...

I do not see a problem if folks post here as long as they understand they 
should CC the OP if they want their responses considered for whatever it is 
the OP is doing...which I might add, would be nice to know.

> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)

-d
-- 
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Dale]

darren kirby wrote:
> quoth the Dale:
>   
>> Plus some of us like to read them.  ;-)
>>     
>
> Really...
>
> I do not see a problem if folks post here as long as they understand they 
> should CC the OP if they want their responses considered for whatever it is 
> the OP is doing...which I might add, would be nice to know.
>
>   
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>     
>
> -d
>   

I would like to know the same thing.  I wonder if he is doing some king
of statistics thing or something.  Maybe he is the "G man" in disguise.  O_O

Dale

:-)  :-)
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[darren kirby]

quoth the b.n.:
> darren kirby wrote:
> > I do not see a problem if folks post here as long as they understand they
> > should CC the OP if they want their responses considered for whatever it
> > is the OP is doing...which I might add, would be nice to know.
>
> I don't want to sound unpolite, but the OP could more easily follow the
> 3d on the web.
> It's a public mailing list. I don't see why the OP could not follow
> common public ML etiquette... :)

Hey! I agree with you. But just as we demand the right to post here if we 
want, the OP can demand the right to ask for private replies....

His loss if people can't be bothered to CC or post offlist, right?

> m.

-d
-- 
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: [user] Why you use Gentoo

[reader]

Unlike many linux users I started with linux and had to learn windows
later.  In both cases I was already an `old man'.  On my fiftieth
birthday in 1996, I started with Redhat linux somewhere in the 3X
version area.

I stumbled and plunged, plunged and stumbled all the way up to now.
And here 10 yrs later am still capable of asking dead stupid
questions.

It may not show too much but I have learned hugely along the way.
I finally tired of redhat (by then it was the fedora branch) and had
tried quite a few others along the way,

Slackware, Debian were really the only two `others' for quite a
while but then I tried mandrake and suse too.

Always returning to redhat/fedora in the end for the simple fact I
knew it best.

So none of the others held enough draw for me to drop redhat/fedora.
Until I met Gentoo.  About 1 1/2 yrs ago now.

It wasn't love at first boot as many here have reported but by then I
was tired of the need to basically reinstall every few mnths or face
the dependancy hell people have mentioned that can arise in rpm
systems.  

I bounced back and forth for a few wks until I finally learned enough
to keep my gentoo system up and have some confidence I knew how to
upgrade etc.

Unlike some posters here I haven't noticed that this list is really
much different than the old redhat now fedora lists.  Only to say that
the old redhat lists seemed to have more real experts than the later
Fedora branch lists.

But both were incredibly helpfull too.  This list follows a long linux
tradition of being very helpful to new and not so new users.  Gentoo
lists may well be setting the high water mark in having a high
`real experts' ratio.

The only real breach I ever noticed in that tradition was Debian lists
which (Putting on asbestos drawers now)  are very snotty and have a
religious zealot overtone not found elsewhere.

And now finally getting to the point:  In a brief summary one might
say:

  emerge -u world

and all the emerge jobs in between when needing specific tools.  That
is, the emerge/portage system is really a well rounded, and robust
software managing tool.





-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-dev] Why you use Gentoo

[b.n.]

> 
>     All responses off list please.  
> 
> 
> Please people, it's common sense to read emails before you reply to 
> them. :-)

It's even more common sense not to ask for off-list answers to a on-list 
post...

m.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[b.n.]

darren kirby wrote:

> I do not see a problem if folks post here as long as they understand they 
> should CC the OP if they want their responses considered for whatever it is 
> the OP is doing...which I might add, would be nice to know.

I don't want to sound unpolite, but the OP could more easily follow the 
3d on the web.
It's a public mailing list. I don't see why the OP could not follow 
common public ML etiquette... :)

m.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Rodrigo Lazo]

[user]
Portage
Handbook, it dragged me out of the dull and darkness that I was living in
and because... it works!! 99% of the times it didn't work was because of me.

-- 

Rodrigo Lazo (rlazo)
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Timothy A. Holmes]

Hi folks:

In the course of learning gentoo, I managed to create several systems
using the wrong stage 3 tarballs (or something) 

They all have a CHOST setting of i386

Should I change this? What benefits will it bring me, and 

How do I do it?

As I understand it, I change the chost, and then emerge -e system &&
emerge -e world

Any input you can provide would be welcome

TIM


Timothy A. Holmes
IT Manager / Network Admin / Web Master / Computer Teacher
 
Medina Christian Academy
A Higher Standard...


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Saturday 09 September 2006 18:54, Timothy A. Holmes wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
[SNIP]

Replying to another thread and changed the subject like this is referred to as 
hijacking a thread. Please don't do that. Instead post a new email to this 
list with the new subject. New mail rather than reply...

Thanks.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[darren kirby]

quoth the Timothy A. Holmes:
> Hi folks:
>
> In the course of learning gentoo, I managed to create several systems
> using the wrong stage 3 tarballs (or something)
>
> They all have a CHOST setting of i386
>
> Should I change this? What benefits will it bring me, and

Depends on your type of processor. If you have a modern x86 you presumably 
want CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu" and you will want to change your '-march=' in 
CFLAGS to match your specific processor. This will allow gcc to take 
advantage of newer processor optimizations.

> How do I do it?

Edit /etc/make.conf. Read the comments...

> As I understand it, I change the chost, and then emerge -e system &&
> emerge -e world

I probably wouldn't bother doing a wholesale re-emerge of the system. You can 
if you want but unless you are running intensive cpu-bound processes I do not 
think the change will be overly dramatic. I would just change the settings 
and upgrade/update the individual packages when portage sees fit to do so 
through normal updates... 

> Any input you can provide would be welcome
>
> TIM

PS: please try to create a new thread rather than replying to an existing one 
with a new Q...

-d
-- 
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Richard Fish]

On 9/9/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
> As I understand it, I change the chost, and then emerge -e system &&
> emerge -e world

Hmm, same answer I gave you yesterday:

<change CHOST in make.conf>
/usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh
emerge -e system
emerge -e world

Me thinks the mail list bug has struck again.  Let me know if you
don't get this one.  ;->

-Richard
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[John J. Foster]

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On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 05:34:55PM -0700, Richard Fish wrote:
> 
> Me thinks the mail list bug has struck again.  Let me know if you
> don't get this one.  ;->
> 
Just an FYI - I didn't get your other mail.

festus
-- 
In all the millions of years dinosaurs roamed this planet, did any of
them feel the need to invent, say, nuclear weapons?           Mickeyz

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Zac Slade]

On Saturday 09 September 2006 07:49, Rodrigo Lazo wrote:
> [user]
> Portage
> Handbook, it dragged me out of the dull and darkness that I was living in
> and because... it works!! 99% of the times it didn't work was because of
> me.
Okay I've taken the bait.  This is the same reason I love Gentoo.  The bugs 
(outside of portage) are MY bugs.  Other distros might have strange 
interaction problems because of patches they add for usability or stability, 
but in Gentoo the bugs are MINE.   I own the bugs.  It's up to me to push to 
get them fixed or find workarounds, because either I'm doing something wrong 
or there is an honest to goodness bug in the app.

-- 
Zac Slade
krakrjak@volumehost.net
ICQ:1415282 YM:krakrjak AIM:ttyp99
-- 
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RE: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Timothy A. Holmes]

> -----Original Message-----
> On 9/9/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
> > As I understand it, I change the chost, and then emerge -e system &&
> > emerge -e world
> 
> Hmm, same answer I gave you yesterday:
> 
> <change CHOST in make.conf>
> /usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh
> emerge -e system
> emerge -e world
> 
> Me thinks the mail list bug has struck again.  Let me know if you
> don't get this one.  ;->
> 
> -Richard
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Richard:

I got this one - thanks, the problem is that im getting conflicting
advice from multiple sources. 

I asked again to try to clarify.

Ive received answers that range from 

You cant do that no matter what
To
You don't want to do that
To 
It wont do any good
To 
Your answer
To 
Bootstrap wont run
To 
No need for bootstrap, just change and do the emerges

Im a bit confused to be honest

Timothy A. Holmes
IT Manager / Network Admin / Web Master / Computer Teacher
 
Medina Christian Academy
A Higher Standard...


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Jean-Marc Beaune]

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Hi,

I had to change CHOST during gcc upgrade.
I did bootstrap.sh
I did emerge -e system
emerge -e world didn't work.

I struggled more than one week to make it work, now I'm reinstalling from
scratch.

My advise:
Backup all important data and excpect the fact that you could lost your
system.


On 9/10/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > On 9/9/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
> > > As I understand it, I change the chost, and then emerge -e system &&
> > > emerge -e world
> >
> > Hmm, same answer I gave you yesterday:
> >
> > <change CHOST in make.conf>
> > /usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh
> > emerge -e system
> > emerge -e world
> >
> > Me thinks the mail list bug has struck again.  Let me know if you
> > don't get this one.  ;->
> >
> > -Richard
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> Richard:
>
> I got this one - thanks, the problem is that im getting conflicting
> advice from multiple sources.
>
> I asked again to try to clarify.
>
> Ive received answers that range from
>
> You cant do that no matter what
> To
> You don't want to do that
> To
> It wont do any good
> To
> Your answer
> To
> Bootstrap wont run
> To
> No need for bootstrap, just change and do the emerges
>
> Im a bit confused to be honest
>
> Timothy A. Holmes
> IT Manager / Network Admin / Web Master / Computer Teacher
>
> Medina Christian Academy
> A Higher Standard...
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
/JM

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Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Meino Christian Cramer]

From: "Jean-Marc Beaune" <jm.beaune@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:39:07 +0200

Hi,

 I had to change CHOST also and I can only speak of my experience --
 which may be based on the wrong way to do such things, but...

 I did:

 
 Change CHOST
 Update profile (unfortunately to the wrong one, but that's my fault)
 source /etc/profile
 emerge gcc (since I had to upgrade to gcc-4.1.1
 gcc-config
 emerge -e system
 emerge -e world

 last step was interrupted several times either do to compiling
 failures or to package, whch wants other previous installed packages
 to be recompiled with other USE-flags.

 The overall result is a running system with some packages either
 installed not with all features compiled due to other packages
 missing due to compile failures or missing completly.

 This may or may be not based on the wrong profile I choose initially.
 I will chnage to the correct profile and recompile all affected
 package and will see, how far I can get then.

 The described procedure takes me four days with interuptions. The
 computer was not switched off and did its compiling task as often as
 possible (day and night when not stopped by an compile failure or
 other incidents described above. I am running an AMD 64 X2 3800+,
 "make -j 3" and 1GB of RAM. 

 Keep hacking,
 mcc

 
 
 

> Hi,
> 
> I had to change CHOST during gcc upgrade.
> I did bootstrap.sh
> I did emerge -e system
> emerge -e world didn't work.
> 
> I struggled more than one week to make it work, now I'm reinstalling from
> scratch.
> 
> My advise:
> Backup all important data and excpect the fact that you could lost your
> system.
> 
> 
> On 9/10/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > On 9/9/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
> > > > As I understand it, I change the chost, and then emerge -e system &&
> > > > emerge -e world
> > >
> > > Hmm, same answer I gave you yesterday:
> > >
> > > <change CHOST in make.conf>
> > > /usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh
> > > emerge -e system
> > > emerge -e world
> > >
> > > Me thinks the mail list bug has struck again.  Let me know if you
> > > don't get this one.  ;->
> > >
> > > -Richard
> > > --
> > > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> > Richard:
> >
> > I got this one - thanks, the problem is that im getting conflicting
> > advice from multiple sources.
> >
> > I asked again to try to clarify.
> >
> > Ive received answers that range from
> >
> > You cant do that no matter what
> > To
> > You don't want to do that
> > To
> > It wont do any good
> > To
> > Your answer
> > To
> > Bootstrap wont run
> > To
> > No need for bootstrap, just change and do the emerges
> >
> > Im a bit confused to be honest
> >
> > Timothy A. Holmes
> > IT Manager / Network Admin / Web Master / Computer Teacher
> >
> > Medina Christian Academy
> > A Higher Standard...
> >
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> /JM
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Timothy A. Holmes]

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-----Original Message-----
From: richard.j.fish@gmail.com on behalf of Richard Fish
Sent: Sun 9/10/2006 2:30 PM
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST
 
On 9/10/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
> Richard:
>
> I got this one - thanks, the problem is that im getting conflicting
> advice from multiple sources.

I think the problem with this is (and I don't mean to offend when I
say this...) that the people who would be able to figure out how to
successfully change CHOST on a live system have never have to do so,
because they set it right from the start.

So my advice is based on:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/169260

As well as forums threads such as:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-386633.html

(BTW, one has to be a bit careful on the forums, as some of those
threads have answers from people who recommend merging system and
world twice each....which is pretty much useless.)

> You cant do that no matter what

Pretty sure this isn't true.  But it would be wrong to suggest that it
is an easy thing to change, or say that there is some method that
guarantees you won't end up booting from your live CD to repair
things.

> To
> You don't want to do that

This one seems entirely up to you.  At this point in Gentoo, you
either have to change CHOST, or add ">=sys-libs/glibc-2.4" to
/etc/portage/package.mask, since 2.4 is nptl only, and that requires
better than i386.

> To
> It wont do any good

If this was the entire answer, it is simply clueless.  Using the CHOST
that matches your processor lets gcc use more effecient instructions
for newer processors.  This is what makes nptl so more efficient than
linuxthreads, because it uses processor instructions specifically
designed for multi-CPU synchronization.

Now whether the improvements are worthwhile or not is a subjective
thing, and one could argue that it isn't worth the effort.  This goes
back to the previous point.

> To
> Bootstrap wont run

Sounds like a bug.

> To
> No need for bootstrap, just change and do the emerges

Well I would have thought so too, but that hasn't worked for some
people.  Again, there is no definitive guide on changing CHOST.  The
safest option is to boot from a livecd and re-install using the new
CHOST.

But if you are willing to go that far anyway, it can't hurt to try the
bootstrap.sh ; emerge -e system ; emerge -e world sequence.
Basically, if you make it through the emerge -e system part, you have
a sane base system and anything else that breaks indicates a problem
with the change in profile or gcc versions, not the change in CHOST.

BTW, Darren's answer on this thread seems incorrect to me.  Changing
CHOST is a pretty significant thing to tweak, certainly as significant
as changing gcc versions, and you really should re-merge *everything*
to make sure your something doesn't wind up broken.

> Im a bit confused to be honest

That's ok.  It isn't an easy question to answer unfortunately.

-Richard
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list


Richard:

thanks a great deal for your answer -- it is extremely helpful.

I think i will give it a shot, the system in question right now is only my rsync mirror -- it as additional tasks planned to be installed, but that hasn't happened yet.  if i can get it to run, then it is cool, but if not, i havent lost a great deal.  I do however have a couple other production boxes that I REALLY dont want to have to rebuild that might (i havent checked yet) be built using the same stage 3 -- they are running ok, speeds and processor loads look ok, so if this breaks this box, im not going to attempt it on the other ones.

I'll let you know how it goes

TIM

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Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 09 September 2006 02:33, John J. Foster wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 06:33:40PM -0500, Colleen Beamer 
wrote:
> > I'm not, but I *could* be a grandmother, so I guess I'm not
> > the average
>
> Well, I *couldn't* be a grandmother, because I am a
> grandfather who has pretty much no clue what average is.

And I *could* be a grandfather if only I'd had kids when regular 
sane people have them, but I didn't, and now my son's only 9 so 
I get to wait another 10 years at least...

But back to topic. Colleen's answer seems to me pretty 
representative of why most folk do Gentoo, myself included. 
With one extra reason - I'm a total propellor-head and Gentoo 
lets me fiddle all day long to my heart's content; and when I 
break it, Gentoo lets me fix it.

alan
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Why you use Gentoo

[Kevin O'Gorman]

Responding to all, sorry

[user]
  control
  compiler optimizations (I run on P4 Xeon)
  it was the first distro I found whose kernels didn't mess up the
Xeon CPU throttling stuff and
    randomly start running at 10% speed
  glutton for pain (I hate worrying about all those ewarns and config
files for things I never
    even knew I had, let alone how they were configured)


-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[darren kirby]

quoth the Richard Fish:
>
> BTW, Darren's answer on this thread seems incorrect to me.  Changing
> CHOST is a pretty significant thing to tweak, certainly as significant
> as changing gcc versions, and you really should re-merge *everything*
> to make sure your something doesn't wind up broken.

Hi Richard, sorry I just noticed this (due to your help in a more recent 
thread where you linked to this). Anyway, my reasoning for my answer was that 
(although he didn't explicitly state it) Tim wanted to upgrade from i386 to 
i686 presumably. A binary built for a 386 is still able to run on a 686 
system. The cpu instructions are forward (but not backward) compatible. Thus, 
I did not think it necessary for a wholesale rebuild of the entire system on 
the spot. Indeed it seems this is not as simple as I thought. I may have been 
thinking changing CHOST was as simple as changing -march or -mcpu...

I still stand by my assertion that the speed increase will be trivial ;)

-d
-- 
darren kirby :: Part of the problem since 1976 :: http://badcomputer.org
"...the number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected..."
- Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson, June 1972
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Nagatoro]

Timothy A. Holmes wrote:
> Hi folks:
> 
> In the course of learning gentoo, I managed to create several systems
> using the wrong stage 3 tarballs (or something) 
> 
> They all have a CHOST setting of i386
> 
> Should I change this? What benefits will it bring me, and 

Since the new glibc - yes

> How do I do it?

http://dev.gentoo.org/~amne/temp/change-chost.txt

-- 
Naga
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Richard Fish]

On 9/12/06, Richard Fish <bigfish@asmallpond.org> wrote:
> On 9/12/06, darren kirby <bulliver@badcomputer.org> wrote:
> > system. The cpu instructions are forward (but not backward) compatible. Thus,
> > I did not think it necessary for a wholesale rebuild of the entire system on
> > the spot. Indeed it seems this is not as simple as I thought. I may have been
> > thinking changing CHOST was as simple as changing -march or -mcpu...
>
> Well I've brought up the issue on -dev, and it seems that something
> official is in the works on this, so we'll see what comes of that.
> Maybe your answer will turn out to be correct!

And indeed, the emerge -e world may in fact be optional.

A quite from the current draft of the guide [1]:

"""
- You may want to run
# emerge -e world
now. In theory it should not be necessary to do so, but it can not be
100% guaranteed that this is actually the case. ;-)
"""

I think I'd still like to see people run an emerge -e system
regardless...just as an extra safety step to make sure the system
packages are sane.  But my understanding of what can be affected by a
change in CHOST is definitely changed.

-Richard

[1] http://dev.gentoo.org/~amne/temp/change-chost.txt
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Timothy A. Holmes]

> On 9/12/06, Richard Fish <bigfish@asmallpond.org> wrote:
> > On 9/12/06, darren kirby <bulliver@badcomputer.org> wrote:
> > > system. The cpu instructions are forward (but not backward)
> compatible. Thus,
> > > I did not think it necessary for a wholesale rebuild of the entire
> system on
> > > the spot. Indeed it seems this is not as simple as I thought. I
may
> have been
> > > thinking changing CHOST was as simple as changing -march or
-mcpu...
> >
> > Well I've brought up the issue on -dev, and it seems that something
> > official is in the works on this, so we'll see what comes of that.
> > Maybe your answer will turn out to be correct!
> 
> And indeed, the emerge -e world may in fact be optional.
> 
> A quite from the current draft of the guide [1]:
> 
> """
> - You may want to run
> # emerge -e world
> now. In theory it should not be necessary to do so, but it can not be
> 100% guaranteed that this is actually the case. ;-)
> """
> 
> I think I'd still like to see people run an emerge -e system
> regardless...just as an extra safety step to make sure the system
> packages are sane.  But my understanding of what can be affected by a
> change in CHOST is definitely changed.
> 
> -Richard
> 
> [1] http://dev.gentoo.org/~amne/temp/change-chost.txt
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[Timothy A. Holmes] 


Hi folks -- I really appreciate all the input on this -- 

It turns out - the system borked and wouldn't let me login from ssh or
console, so I dropped in a live cd and am in the process of rebuilding
it (with the proper stage)

Thanks again for all the help -- I really appreciate it and I have
learned a great deal

TIM


Timothy A. Holmes
IT Manager / Network Admin / Web Master / Computer Teacher
 
Medina Christian Academy
A Higher Standard...
 


-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] changing CHOST

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 9/13/06, Timothy A. Holmes <tholmes@mcaschool.net> wrote:
> > On 9/12/06, Richard Fish <bigfish@asmallpond.org> wrote:
> > > On 9/12/06, darren kirby <bulliver@badcomputer.org> wrote:
> > > > system. The cpu instructions are forward (but not backward)
> > compatible. Thus,
> > > > I did not think it necessary for a wholesale rebuild of the entire
> > system on
> > > > the spot. Indeed it seems this is not as simple as I thought. I
> may
> > have been
> > > > thinking changing CHOST was as simple as changing -march or
> -mcpu...
> > >
> > > Well I've brought up the issue on -dev, and it seems that something
> > > official is in the works on this, so we'll see what comes of that.
> > > Maybe your answer will turn out to be correct!
> >
> > And indeed, the emerge -e world may in fact be optional.
> >
> > A quite from the current draft of the guide [1]:
> >
> > """
> > - You may want to run
> > # emerge -e world
> > now. In theory it should not be necessary to do so, but it can not be
> > 100% guaranteed that this is actually the case. ;-)
> > """
> >
> > I think I'd still like to see people run an emerge -e system
> > regardless...just as an extra safety step to make sure the system
> > packages are sane.  But my understanding of what can be affected by a
> > change in CHOST is definitely changed.
> >
> > -Richard
> >
> > [1] http://dev.gentoo.org/~amne/temp/change-chost.txt
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> [Timothy A. Holmes]
>
>
> Hi folks -- I really appreciate all the input on this --
>
> It turns out - the system borked and wouldn't let me login from ssh or
> console, so I dropped in a live cd and am in the process of rebuilding
> it (with the proper stage)
>
> Thanks again for all the help -- I really appreciate it and I have
> learned a great deal
>

The thread is kinda dead now that the OP borked the system and is
reinstalling, but anyway, I'll report to it for future reference. Old
threads in this list and foruns talk about this with different
ways/advices, but what ended up working for me (changind from i386 to
i686) was:


some quickpkg's (gcc, glibc, python, portage, libstdc++)
(just to be sure I would NOT need a livecd)
edit make.conf
emerge gcc
(as it compiles itself with the new compiler, ended up with i686-pc-linux-gnu)
emerge glibc python portage libstdc++
(just to make sure all tools for emerge were already compiled with the
new GCC, I don't know wich order the emerge -e system uses for
packages, it upgraded my glibc, wich was the whole point of the chost
change)
emerge -e system
(just to make sure most tools were already compiled with the new chost
before any reboot/retry)
emerge -e world
(I guess recompiling stuff with the new chost will take advantage of
features present in new processors, that's the whole point of HAVING
this flag, isnt? Anyway, its more like a "bug hunting" command, also,
broken dynamic linking that could be hanging will appear, specially
libstdc++, but I kinda ask myself if it was indeed needed.)

Up and running here...

-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
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