[gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[gentuxx]

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Why in the world to I need Apache, php(4), and a whole host of other
packages (22 to be exact) just to install NTP?  Now, I'm assuming that
the net-misc/ntp package is actually the daemon, and not just the client.

Can anyone suggest a client *only* package?  I've got a system that
doesn't hold it's time after a reboot - all I really need is the
ability to update the system time.

- --
gentux
echo "hfouvyAdpy/ofu" | perl -pe 's/(.)/chr(ord($1)-1)/ge'

gentux's gpg fingerprint ==> 34CE 2E97 40C7 EF6E EC40  9795 2D81 924A
6996 0993
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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[Rumen Yotov]

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On Sunday 26 February 2006 12:21, gentuxx wrote:
> Why in the world to I need Apache, php(4), and a whole host of other
> packages (22 to be exact) just to install NTP?  Now, I'm assuming that
> the net-misc/ntp package is actually the daemon, and not just the client.
>
> Can anyone suggest a client *only* package?  I've got a system that
> doesn't hold it's time after a reboot - all I really need is the
> ability to update the system time.
>
> --
> gentux
> echo "hfouvyAdpy/ofu" | perl -pe 's/(.)/chr(ord($1)-1)/ge'
>
> gentux's gpg fingerprint ==> 34CE 2E97 40C7 EF6E EC40  9795 2D81 924A
> 6996 0993
Hi,
Think that some other package fetches all these deps.
Check:
# dep -l net-misc/ntp
net-misc/ntp-4.2.0.20050303-r1:
    !openntpd?      !net-misc/openntpd
                    >=sys-apps/portage-2.0.51 sys-apps/portage-2.1_pre5
                    >=sys-libs/ncurses-5.2   sys-libs/ncurses-5.5-r1
                    >=sys-libs/readline-4.1  sys-libs/readline-5.1_p2
    ssl?            dev-libs/openssl         dev-libs/openssl-0.9.7i
    !bootstrap?     sys-devel/patch          sys-devel/patch-2.5.9-r1
    kernel_linux? !nodroproot? sys-libs/libcap sys-libs/libcap-1.10-r5
...END...
As you see nothing from Apache,PHP comes here. No such flags too.
HTH.Rumen

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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Sunday 26 February 2006 04:21, gentuxx <gentuxx@gmail.com> wrote about 
'[gentoo-user] BS dependencies?':
> Why in the world to I need Apache, php(4), and a whole host of other
> packages (22 to be exact) just to install NTP?  Now, I'm assuming that
> the net-misc/ntp package is actually the daemon, and not just the
> client.

NTP is similar to many P2P protocols in that "clients" are normally also 
long running background processes, daemons (or paenguins).  There are some 
clients that use NTP messages to fetch a single time and set your clock 
using it, but then you still get network latency "noise" and other 
inaccuracies.  For daily work that's really not a big deal, but if you are 
going to use NTP I suggest you really use NTP and run a daemon.  The 
default config for both net-misc/ntp and openntpd does not listen on any 
ports by default, so it shouldn't raise many security issues.

As far an these unwanted dependencies go, could you please provide the 
output for emerge -pvt net-misc/ntp so we can see the whole dependency 
chain?

> Can anyone suggest a client *only* package?  I've got a system that
> doesn't hold it's time after a reboot - all I really need is the
> ability to update the system time.

Just use rdate then.

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
bss03@volumehost.net
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[Richard Fish]

On 2/26/06, gentuxx <gentuxx@gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Why in the world to I need Apache, php(4), and a whole host of other
> packages (22 to be exact) just to install NTP?

Probably because your USE flags are telling portage that you want all
of those dependancies.

If you don't have USE=nodroproot (which would be a bad idea, BTW), ntp
depends on sys-libs/libcap.

sys-libs/libcap depends on dev-lang/swig if you have USE=python.

dev-lang/swig depends dev-lang/php if you have USE=php.

dev-lang/php depends on apache.

...and so on.

If you want to avoid such dependancies, you should set USE=-* in
/etc/make.conf, and then set each USE flag specifically for each
package that you want it on in /etc/portage/package.use.  If you do
this, be very careful in the conversion of your system, as you can
break things easily (for example, if you have pam, and end up with
-pam.)

-Richard

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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[gentuxx]

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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>On Sunday 26 February 2006 04:21, gentuxx <gentuxx@gmail.com> wrote about
>'[gentoo-user] BS dependencies?':
>
>>Why in the world to I need Apache, php(4), and a whole host of other
>>packages (22 to be exact) just to install NTP? Now, I'm assuming that
>>the net-misc/ntp package is actually the daemon, and not just the
>>client.
>
>
>NTP is similar to many P2P protocols in that "clients" are normally also
>long running background processes, daemons (or paenguins). There are some
>clients that use NTP messages to fetch a single time and set your clock
>using it, but then you still get network latency "noise" and other
>inaccuracies. For daily work that's really not a big deal, but if you are
>going to use NTP I suggest you really use NTP and run a daemon. The
>default config for both net-misc/ntp and openntpd does not listen on any
>ports by default, so it shouldn't raise many security issues.
>
>As far an these unwanted dependencies go, could you please provide the
>output for emerge -pvt net-misc/ntp so we can see the whole dependency
>chain?
>
>>Can anyone suggest a client *only* package? I've got a system that
>>doesn't hold it's time after a reboot - all I really need is the
>>ability to update the system time.
>
>
>Just use rdate then.
>
I'm looking into `rdate'.  But here is the list of dependencies that
comes up.  I think Mr. Fish may have hit the nail on the "recursive
dependencies", as I do have 'python' and 'php' in my USE flags
(included below).

emerge -pvt net-misc/ntp

These are the packages that I would merge, in reverse order:

Calculating dependencies ...done!
[ebuild  N    ] dev-php/php-4.4.0-r4  -X +berkdb +crypt -curl -debug
- -doc (-fdftk) -firebird -flash -freetds -gd -gd-external +gdbm -gmp
- -hardenedphp -imap (-informix) -ipv6 (-java) +jpeg -kerberos -ldap
- -mcal -memlimit -mssql -mysql +ncurses +nls (-oci8) -odbc +pam +png
- -postgres +readline -snmp +spell +ssl -tiff +truetype +xml2 -yaz 4,339 kB
[ebuild  N    ] net-misc/ntp-4.2.0.20040617-r3  -debug -ipv6
- -logrotate -nodroproot -openntpd -parse-clocks (-selinux) +ssl 2,403 kB
[ebuild  N    ]  sys-libs/libcap-1.10-r5  -nocxx +python -static 38 kB
[ebuild  N    ]   dev-lang/swig-1.3.21  -X -doc -guile (-java) +perl
+php +python -ruby -tcltk 1,975 kB
[ebuild  N    ]    dev-php/mod_php-4.4.0-r9  -X +apache2 +berkdb
+crypt -curl -debug -doc (-fdftk) -firebird -flash -freetds -gd
- -gd-external +gdbm -gmp -hardenedphp -imap (-informix) -ipv6 (-java)
+jpeg -kerberos -ldap -mcal -memlimit -mssql -mysql +nls (-oci8) -odbc
+pam +png -postgres -snmp +spell +ssl -tiff +truetype +xml2 -yaz 0 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     media-libs/t1lib-5.0.2  -X -doc 1,657 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     media-libs/freetype-1.3.1-r4  +nls -tetex 1,919 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     media-libs/libpng-1.2.8  -doc 0 kB
[ebuild  NS   ]     sys-libs/db-1.85-r2  279 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     app-text/sablotron-1.0.1  -doc +perl 474 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     media-libs/jpeg-6b-r5  0 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     net-www/apache-2.0.55-r1  +apache2 -debug -doc
- -ldap -mpm-leader (-mpm-peruser) -mpm-prefork -mpm-threadpool
- -mpm-worker -no-suexec (-selinux) +ssl -static-modules +threads 4,684 kB
[ebuild  N    ]      dev-libs/apr-util-0.9.7  +berkdb +gdbm -ldap 724 kB
[ebuild  N    ]      app-misc/mime-types-4  7 kB
[ebuild  N    ]      dev-libs/apr-0.9.7  -ipv6 -urandom 1,020 kB
[ebuild  N    ]      net-www/gentoo-webroot-default-0.2  -no-htdocs 64 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.15  +crypt -debug +python
- -static 1,780 kB
[ebuild  N    ]      dev-libs/libxml2-2.6.23  -debug -doc -ipv6
+python +readline 3,338 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     dev-libs/libmcrypt-2.5.7  511 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     media-libs/freetype-2.1.9-r1  -bindist -doc +zlib 0 kB
[ebuild  N    ]     app-text/aspell-0.50.5-r4  -gpm 992 kB

USE flags from `emerge --info':

USE="sparc apache2 arts avi berkdb bitmap-fonts bzip2 cdb crypt cups
dlloader eds encode esd expat fastcgi fbcon foomaticdb fortran gcc64
gdbm gif gstreamer gtk2 iconv imlib javascript jpeg libwww mad mbox
mhash mikmod milter mime motif mpeg ncurses nls nptl ogg opengl oss
pam pcre pdflib perl php png python readline sdl socketstcpd spell ssl
symlink tcpd threads tidy truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts udev
vhosts vorbis xml xml2 xmlrpc xmms xsl xv zlib userland_GNU
kernel_linux elibc_glibc"

(NOTE:  This differs from what is actuall in my '/etc/make.conf'):
USE="-X -kde -qt -gnome -gtk perl php python ssl apache2 fastcgi iconv
java javascript libwww mime milter mbox ncurses pcre socketstcpd spell
threads tidy vhosts xml xml2 xmlrpc xsl zlib symlink"



- --
gentux
echo "hfouvyAdpy/ofu" | perl -pe 's/(.)/chr(ord($1)-1)/ge'

gentux's gpg fingerprint ==> 34CE 2E97 40C7 EF6E EC40  9795 2D81 924A
6996 0993
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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[Richard Fish]

On 2/26/06, gentuxx <gentuxx@gmail.com> wrote:
> (NOTE:  This differs from what is actuall in my '/etc/make.conf'):

This is because the profile contains some USE flags that are on by default.

-Richard

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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[gentuxx]

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Hash: SHA1

Richard Fish wrote:

>On 2/26/06, gentuxx <gentuxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>Why in the world to I need Apache, php(4), and a whole host of other
>>packages (22 to be exact) just to install NTP?
>
>
>Probably because your USE flags are telling portage that you want all
>of those dependancies.
>
>If you don't have USE=nodroproot (which would be a bad idea, BTW), ntp
>depends on sys-libs/libcap.
>
>sys-libs/libcap depends on dev-lang/swig if you have USE=python.
>
>dev-lang/swig depends dev-lang/php if you have USE=php.
>
>dev-lang/php depends on apache.
>
>...and so on.
>
>If you want to avoid such dependancies, you should set USE=-* in
>/etc/make.conf, and then set each USE flag specifically for each
>package that you want it on in /etc/portage/package.use. If you do
>this, be very careful in the conversion of your system, as you can
>break things easily (for example, if you have pam, and end up with
>-pam.)
>
>-Richard
>
rdate doesn't give me the functionality that I'm looking for as it
expects to connect to the (x)?inetd 'time' subdaemon, instead of an
ntpd server.  But, removing some of the "heavier" USE flags (php,
apache2, etc.) brought me down to net-misc/ntp and 2 other
dependencies (libcap and swig), which I thought were acceptable.

- --
gentux
echo "hfouvyAdpy/ofu" | perl -pe 's/(.)/chr(ord($1)-1)/ge'

gentux's gpg fingerprint ==> 34CE 2E97 40C7 EF6E EC40  9795 2D81 924A
6996 0993
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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[Iain Buchanan]

IMHO, I'd try and find and fix the reason that it's not keeping time,
rather than patch it with ntpdate.  Unless you know the reason already,
and it can't be fixed, then I'll just shut up :)
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iain at netspace dot net dot au>

It is Fortune, not Wisdom, that rules man's life.

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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Sunday 26 February 2006 16:20, gentuxx <gentuxx@gmail.com> wrote about 
'Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?':
> rdate doesn't give me the functionality that I'm looking for as it
> expects to connect to the (x)?inetd 'time' subdaemon, instead of an
> ntpd server.  But, removing some of the "heavier" USE flags (php,
> apache2, etc.) brought me down to net-misc/ntp and 2 other
> dependencies (libcap and swig), which I thought were acceptable.

You could also try openntpd.  It seems to be lacking some features (ntpq 
doesn't work against it, for example) but it will connect to an ntp server 
and set your time.

Of course with net-misc/ntp you get the ntpdate binary and startup script 
that are pure clients, to completely avoid running a daemon at all.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh
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Re: [gentoo-user] BS dependencies?

[gentuxx]

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Iain Buchanan wrote:

>IMHO, I'd try and find and fix the reason that it's not keeping time,
>rather than patch it with ntpdate. Unless you know the reason already,
>and it can't be fixed, then I'll just shut up :)

Well, that *would* be the ideal way to go.  However, usually problems
like this are related to CMOS batteries, and their eventual death.
I'm not quite as familiar with SPARC hardware as with x86 hardware,
but I suspect the problem to be similar.  I got these systems rather
cheaply from eBay, and as they are 10+ years old, I don't know how
much replacement hardware will be floating around.  ;-)

Be that as it may, I've managed to get the net-misc/ntp package
installed and configured.  It isn't so much the extra overhead of
running the ntpd that I was concerned about.  I just didn't want to
install apache2, php, and the slew of other "heavyweight" applications
that it was wanting to install.

- --
gentux
echo "hfouvyAdpy/ofu" | perl -pe 's/(.)/chr(ord($1)-1)/ge'

gentux's gpg fingerprint ==> 34CE 2E97 40C7 EF6E EC40  9795 2D81 924A
6996 0993
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