Re: default stage3 (was : [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo still on the right path?)

[Holly Bostick <motub@planet.nl>]

Hemmann, Volker Armin schreef:
> On Monday 21 November 2005 13:33, Steve B wrote:
> 
>> WTF.. I'm getting ready to rebuild my gentoo box. I have always did
>>  a stage 1 install. i was under the impression that if u used a 
>> stage 3 u couldn't muck with your CFLAGS or what not. If I'm forced
>>  to use canned binaries I might as well go with FC or Debian.. I've
>>  never listened to the "Gentoo is dead" comments.. but now who 
>> knows.. this is just crazy.. who came up with this stupid idea? 
>> from the sounds of it certianly not the Gentoo Community!
>> 
> 
> 
> well, it was made, because the idiots are too dumb to read and follow
>  the stage1 instructions.
> 
> And gentoo needs more idiots, right?
> 
> Up until now, the installation was a nice filter - but that has 
> weakend now, too.

 I don't actually agree... the impression I'm getting is that Gentoo has
now matured/evolved into a state where filters are no longer necessary
(or as necessary as previously).

Before now, the Gentoo install was rather fragmented, because all the
tools necessary to install Gentoo did not all work, or did not all work
as well as they needed to, or did not all work as well as they needed to
in combination with each other. In practical market terms, you wouldn't
want just everybody installing it-- in order to ensure a good and
successful experience for the largest number of people, you would not
want to encourage those who were untrained or refused training, since
the state of the backend required training for successful use. Those who
were turned off by the amount or complexity of the documentation (and/or
the length of time the install entailed) would tend naturally to fall away.

But once Gentoo is actually installed, it's just as easy to use as
anything else. Maybe you have to learn "emerge -whatever" instead of
"apt-get whatever", but one is not particularly "harder" than the other.
It was always the install that was hard, not the usage.

The evolution/maturation of Gentoo and its associated tools means that
in order to install Gentoo you no longer have to carefully pick your way
across a minefield (stage 1), but can with confidence stride across a
beautiful grassy plain (stage 3). If you then want to turn around and
"customize" that field-- plant some flowers, for example-- you can do
that (emerge -e world), or you don't have to. But the point is that if
you want to interrupt your journey to whatever was on the other side of
that field (use your PC for whatever you planned to do with the system,
instead of suffering to install the system in the first place) you now
have a choice about whether to do that or not. You are not essentially
forced to do so by the fact that the minefield was not clear and passage
to the other side was not easy or safe and required a great deal of
attention.

Unbelievable that people are complaining about an improvement in
ease-of-use (or in this case, installation). I'd also wonder why Steve
B. is installing (again) anyway; one of Gentoo's hallmarks is that you
basically install it once and you (almost) never have to do it again.

That is of course Steve's business..... although if he's going to
reinstall, again I must wonder why he would complain that such a
reinstall is now likely to be much easier, and lead to a functioning
system (from which he can emerge -e world to his heart's content) much
faster.

But maybe I just have a strange point of view.

Holly



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