Re: [gentoo-user] root password gremlin

[Holly Bostick <motub@planet.nl>]

Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman schreef:

> and, *on the other hand*, the whole point of using free, open source 
> software, is usually to get hands-on software on a lower level than 
> in windows like platforms.
> 
> That's what I wanted to say. Most gnu/linux/oss users like screwing 
> up their systems :P
> 

I understand your point, Arturo, but (list-- save this mail, becaue this
is likely the only time you'll ever hear me play devil's advocate on
this issue, and you'll want the proof if you ever want to throw it up in
my face) you're just .... not right.

What you're basically saying is that Linux is for geeks and aspiring
geeks (who enjoy and have time to "screw up their systems" and "get
hands-on software on a lower level than in Windows-like platforms"), and
even if this 1) was historically true; 2) is in some respects still
philosophically true, it is not *functionally* true at this time, and it
will become less functionally true as time goes on.

The general thrust of the OSS/GNU/Linux movement at this time is
distinctly towards attaining some kind of comfort zone for former
Windows users, and former/current Windows users do not care to get
hands-on software, they do not care to screw up their systems (since
that means a reformat and reinstall most of the time), and they are
paralyzed like a deer in the headlights of an oncoming semi at the very
mention of CLI or ($DEITY forfend) man pages (that must be read via the
CLI). These are people who cannot conceive that breaking X does not mean
you can't use your system (because under their previous OS, the GUI
*was* the OS, not like here where X is just another program).

To increase our userbase, the users must come from the proprietary
OSes-- it's not like there's a whole herd of "loose" first-time users
just roaming the plains. These are "owned" users, some of whom have
realized that the barn is burning down around them and have the good
sense to run.

That doesn't mean that they are capable of coping "in the wild", just
because they have been forced out into it, and it doesn't mean that they
ran out into the wild because they "wanted to be free".

I admit the reason I first dual-booted was because I personally never
liked Windows, and hated the inability to understand what my system was
doing. But the reason I've stayed with Linux is not because I "like
screwing up my system"; it's because I really really hate Microsoft's
policies and I refuse to submit to them, and I'm willing to take a
h-e-double-hockey-sticks of a lot of pain (and it has been painful at
times, and-- at many fewer times-- it still is) to back my own refusal.

I admit I enjoy the triumph of overcoming the many obstacles I've
encountered in this journey, but I'm just weird (very hardheaded. That
doesn't mean I ram my head into walls for *fun*, though). Most "average"
users have no interest in overcoming obstacles just to .... I dunno, rip a
DVD (you don't want to know how painful it was learning how to use
transcode, or how long it took), or to play Morrowind or Need for Speed
Most Wanted. And I can't and don't blame them for that, nor do I expect
them to be like me.

They are going to have to change to some extent if they want to switch,
that's true. There's no other way, and it's unfortunate that most
"average" users are completely unaware of the gravity of changing their
OS before they do it. But that's not the same as expecting them to
magically *be* different than what they were, and have different
expectations than what they've had their entire computing life, just
because they switched to Linux, for reasons that are their own, not
yours or mine.

Tolerance is difficult too, but the first step is recognizing that
different people are actually different-- and then finding a way to live
with that.

We're still working on that second part. SuSE has one way, Ubuntu has
another, Linspire has a third direction, and Gentoo yet a fourth. But
it's very much not as if a SuSE user wants to get "hands-on with their
system" (you really hardly can do that with SuSE). Surely a Linspire
user is not prepared in any way to do so (the Linspire target market is
most definitively not the geekish), and even Gentoo users complain(ed)
about the complexities and length of installation, despite the
extraordinarily copious documentation (perhaps no longer so much needed
with the recent switch to Stage 3 default).

So no, I do wish I could agree with you (it would certainly be a more
comfortable environment for me than what we actually have in terms of
geek-friendliness), but I just cannot.

Holly
--

Then anyone who leaves behind him a written manual, and likewise anyone
who receives it, in the belief that such writing will be clear and
certain, must be exceedingly simple-minded. (Plato)
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