[gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Ralph Seichter]

It seems strange to me as I write it, but since I updated one of my
virtual servers from Kernel version 4.9.34 to 4.12.5, the server (Gentoo
Linux running as a KVM guest) is experiencing timeouts when trying to
connect to DNS resolvers. For the Kernel update, I followed the same
steps I used for years, like

  cd /usr/src/linux
  zcat /proc/config.gz >.config
  make silentoldconfig (answering "no" whereever possible)
  make ...

After booting with Kernel 4.12, commands like "dig +trace www.ibm.com"
work just fine for a while, duration depending on server load, but after
some threshold is passed, all further attempts to contact resolvers fail
due to timeouts.

I have tried running a local, caching resolver (BIND 9) on the server,
like I usually do, and also tried using the hoster's dedicated resolvers.
With Kernel 4.12, I see timeouts in both cases. These problems do not
occur when I boot with the 4.9 Kernel which I have been using for the
past two months.

It is also worth noting that I updated two other servers to Kernel 4.12
without any issues, but these are "real" servers, not VMs. At this point
I am searching for ways to debug the issue, vaguely suspecting some KVM
magic behind it (without any proof). I know that Kernel 4.11 introduced
several KVM related changes, but that's about it.

I appreciate all pointers.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Craig MacKinder]

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It sounds like this vmxnet3 bug causing intermittent interface problems
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191201
Try adding this to the VMware guest advanced settings.
vmxnet3.rev.30 = FALSE
And restart the guests.

--
Craig

On Aug 19, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Ralph Seichter <m16+gentoo@monksofcool.net<mailto:m16+gentoo@monksofcool.net>> wrote:

It seems strange to me as I write it, but since I updated one of my
virtual servers from Kernel version 4.9.34 to 4.12.5, the server (Gentoo
Linux running as a KVM guest) is experiencing timeouts when trying to
connect to DNS resolvers. For the Kernel update, I followed the same
steps I used for years, like

 cd /usr/src/linux
 zcat /proc/config.gz >.config
 make silentoldconfig (answering "no" whereever possible)
 make ...

After booting with Kernel 4.12, commands like "dig +trace www.ibm.com<http://www.ibm.com>"
work just fine for a while, duration depending on server load, but after
some threshold is passed, all further attempts to contact resolvers fail
due to timeouts.

I have tried running a local, caching resolver (BIND 9) on the server,
like I usually do, and also tried using the hoster's dedicated resolvers.
With Kernel 4.12, I see timeouts in both cases. These problems do not
occur when I boot with the 4.9 Kernel which I have been using for the
past two months.

It is also worth noting that I updated two other servers to Kernel 4.12
without any issues, but these are "real" servers, not VMs. At this point
I am searching for ways to debug the issue, vaguely suspecting some KVM
magic behind it (without any proof). I know that Kernel 4.11 introduced
several KVM related changes, but that's about it.

I appreciate all pointers.

-Ralph


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Re: [gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Ralph Seichter]

On 20.08.17 00:15, Craig MacKinder wrote:

> It sounds like this vmxnet3 bug causing intermittent interface problems
> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191201
> Try adding this to the VMware guest advanced settings.
> vmxnet3.rev.30 = FALSE
> And restart the guests.

Interesting idea. However, the host server is running KVM, not VMware.
If I am not mistaken, the bug you mentioned is specific to VMware? I
also don't have the option to define VM host server settings beyond the
choice of network adapter type, as the host is run by a third party.

I have included support for both Intel E1000 and VirtIO networking in my
Linux kernels, with the hosting company recommending VirtIO. Choosing
one over the other does not seem to affect the nameserver timeout
problem.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Neil Bothwick]

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I'd try again with a clean kernel tree but using make oldconfig. It's possible the automagic stuff answered n somewhere where you need a y. 

On 19 August 2017 21:28:05 EEST, Ralph Seichter <m16+gentoo@monksofcool.net> wrote:
>It seems strange to me as I write it, but since I updated one of my
>virtual servers from Kernel version 4.9.34 to 4.12.5, the server
>(Gentoo
>Linux running as a KVM guest) is experiencing timeouts when trying to
>connect to DNS resolvers. For the Kernel update, I followed the same
>steps I used for years, like
>
>  cd /usr/src/linux
>  zcat /proc/config.gz >.config
>  make silentoldconfig (answering "no" whereever possible)
>  make ...
>
>After booting with Kernel 4.12, commands like "dig +trace www.ibm.com"
>work just fine for a while, duration depending on server load, but
>after
>some threshold is passed, all further attempts to contact resolvers
>fail
>due to timeouts.
>
>I have tried running a local, caching resolver (BIND 9) on the server,
>like I usually do, and also tried using the hoster's dedicated
>resolvers.
>With Kernel 4.12, I see timeouts in both cases. These problems do not
>occur when I boot with the 4.9 Kernel which I have been using for the
>past two months.
>
>It is also worth noting that I updated two other servers to Kernel 4.12
>without any issues, but these are "real" servers, not VMs. At this
>point
>I am searching for ways to debug the issue, vaguely suspecting some KVM
>magic behind it (without any proof). I know that Kernel 4.11 introduced
>several KVM related changes, but that's about it.
>
>I appreciate all pointers.
>
>-Ralph

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Ralph Seichter]

On 20.08.2017 08:17, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> I'd try again with a clean kernel tree but using make oldconfig. It's
> possible the automagic stuff answered n somewhere where you need a y.

As https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade/en#make_silentoldconfig
describes, "make silentoldconfig" (which I used) asks for a decision for
all newly introduced kernel options.

Most default to "no" anyway, but I have painstakingly read each of the
new descriptions to figure out if I might need the options. I've done it
several times, and I still cannot figure out if I missed anything. Here
is a subset of the options I have configured, perhaps you can spot if
something is amiss? Of course, grep VIRT is not exactly the most precise
approach...

  ### Server 1 (high volume traffic)
  $ grep VIRT .config | sort
  CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_DEBUG_VIRTUAL=y
  CONFIG_BLK_MQ_VIRTIO=y
  # CONFIG_DEBUG_VIRTUAL is not set
  # CONFIG_DMA_VIRT_OPS is not set
  CONFIG_DMA_VIRTUAL_CHANNELS=y
  # CONFIG_DRM_VIRTIO_GPU is not set
  # CONFIG_FB_VIRTUAL is not set
  CONFIG_HAVE_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN=y
  CONFIG_HW_RANDOM_VIRTIO=y
  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_CLOCK=y
  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_DEBUG is not set
  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_SPINLOCKS=y
  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_TIME_ACCOUNTING is not set
  CONFIG_PARAVIRT=y
  CONFIG_SCSI_VIRTIO=y
  # CONFIG_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN is not set
  # CONFIG_VIRT_DRIVERS is not set
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BALLOON=m
  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK_SCSI is not set
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_CONSOLE=y
  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_INPUT is not set
  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_MMIO is not set
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_NET=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI_LEGACY=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO=y
  CONFIG_VIRT_TO_BUS=y
  # CONFIG_VIRTUALIZATION is not set

I have since updated a second virtual Gentoo server to Kernel 4.12. This
server sees a lot less network traffic, but after a couple of hours it
runs into the same timeouts when attempting to contact resolvers. Kernel
settings include:

  ### Server 2 (low volume traffic)
  $ grep VIRT .config | sort
  CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_DEBUG_VIRTUAL=y
  CONFIG_BLK_MQ_VIRTIO=y
  # CONFIG_DEBUG_VIRTUAL is not set
  # CONFIG_DMA_VIRT_OPS is not set
  CONFIG_DMA_VIRTUAL_CHANNELS=y
  # CONFIG_DRM_VIRTIO_GPU is not set
  # CONFIG_FB_VIRTUAL is not set
  CONFIG_HAVE_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN=y
  CONFIG_HW_RANDOM_VIRTIO=y
  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_CLOCK=y
  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_DEBUG is not set
  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_SPINLOCKS=y
  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_TIME_ACCOUNTING is not set
  CONFIG_PARAVIRT=y
  CONFIG_SCSI_VIRTIO=y
  # CONFIG_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN is not set
  # CONFIG_VIRT_DRIVERS is not set
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BALLOON=m
  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK_SCSI is not set
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_CONSOLE=y
  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_INPUT is not set
  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_MMIO is not set
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_NET=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI_LEGACY=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI=y
  CONFIG_VIRTIO=y
  CONFIG_VIRT_TO_BUS=y
  CONFIG_VIRTUALIZATION=y

As you can see, I used CONFIG_VIRTUALIZATION=y in this case, even though
I believe this only affects running as a VM host. I carried this option
over from the previous 4.9 kernel.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Neil Bothwick]

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Ah, so silentoldconfig is effectively the same as old config. I've not use it before and must have been confusing it with olddefconfig. Sorry for the noise. 

Does your old kernel still work ad before? Just wondering if another update could have caused this. 

On 20 August 2017 15:25:56 EEST, Ralph Seichter <m16+gentoo@monksofcool.net> wrote:
>On 20.08.2017 08:17, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
>> I'd try again with a clean kernel tree but using make oldconfig. It's
>> possible the automagic stuff answered n somewhere where you need a y.
>
>As https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade/en#make_silentoldconfig
>describes, "make silentoldconfig" (which I used) asks for a decision
>for
>all newly introduced kernel options.
>
>Most default to "no" anyway, but I have painstakingly read each of the
>new descriptions to figure out if I might need the options. I've done
>it
>several times, and I still cannot figure out if I missed anything. Here
>is a subset of the options I have configured, perhaps you can spot if
>something is amiss? Of course, grep VIRT is not exactly the most
>precise
>approach...
>
>  ### Server 1 (high volume traffic)
>  $ grep VIRT .config | sort
>  CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_DEBUG_VIRTUAL=y
>  CONFIG_BLK_MQ_VIRTIO=y
>  # CONFIG_DEBUG_VIRTUAL is not set
>  # CONFIG_DMA_VIRT_OPS is not set
>  CONFIG_DMA_VIRTUAL_CHANNELS=y
>  # CONFIG_DRM_VIRTIO_GPU is not set
>  # CONFIG_FB_VIRTUAL is not set
>  CONFIG_HAVE_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN=y
>  CONFIG_HW_RANDOM_VIRTIO=y
>  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_CLOCK=y
>  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_DEBUG is not set
>  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_SPINLOCKS=y
>  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_TIME_ACCOUNTING is not set
>  CONFIG_PARAVIRT=y
>  CONFIG_SCSI_VIRTIO=y
>  # CONFIG_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN is not set
>  # CONFIG_VIRT_DRIVERS is not set
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BALLOON=m
>  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK_SCSI is not set
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_CONSOLE=y
>  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_INPUT is not set
>  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_MMIO is not set
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_NET=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI_LEGACY=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO=y
>  CONFIG_VIRT_TO_BUS=y
>  # CONFIG_VIRTUALIZATION is not set
>
>I have since updated a second virtual Gentoo server to Kernel 4.12.
>This
>server sees a lot less network traffic, but after a couple of hours it
>runs into the same timeouts when attempting to contact resolvers.
>Kernel
>settings include:
>
>  ### Server 2 (low volume traffic)
>  $ grep VIRT .config | sort
>  CONFIG_ARCH_HAS_DEBUG_VIRTUAL=y
>  CONFIG_BLK_MQ_VIRTIO=y
>  # CONFIG_DEBUG_VIRTUAL is not set
>  # CONFIG_DMA_VIRT_OPS is not set
>  CONFIG_DMA_VIRTUAL_CHANNELS=y
>  # CONFIG_DRM_VIRTIO_GPU is not set
>  # CONFIG_FB_VIRTUAL is not set
>  CONFIG_HAVE_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN=y
>  CONFIG_HW_RANDOM_VIRTIO=y
>  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_CLOCK=y
>  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_DEBUG is not set
>  CONFIG_PARAVIRT_SPINLOCKS=y
>  # CONFIG_PARAVIRT_TIME_ACCOUNTING is not set
>  CONFIG_PARAVIRT=y
>  CONFIG_SCSI_VIRTIO=y
>  # CONFIG_VIRT_CPU_ACCOUNTING_GEN is not set
>  # CONFIG_VIRT_DRIVERS is not set
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BALLOON=m
>  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK_SCSI is not set
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_BLK=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_CONSOLE=y
>  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_INPUT is not set
>  # CONFIG_VIRTIO_MMIO is not set
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_NET=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI_LEGACY=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO_PCI=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTIO=y
>  CONFIG_VIRT_TO_BUS=y
>  CONFIG_VIRTUALIZATION=y
>
>As you can see, I used CONFIG_VIRTUALIZATION=y in this case, even
>though
>I believe this only affects running as a VM host. I carried this option
>over from the previous 4.9 kernel.
>
>-Ralph

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Ralph Seichter]

On 21.08.2017 08:08, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> Ah, so silentoldconfig is effectively the same as old config.

Silentoldconfig is quite a useful make target, since it only asks about
newly introduced kernel options.

> Does your old kernel still work ad before? Just wondering if another
> update could have caused this.

Both affected virtual servers run fine when I boot kernel 4.9.34 while
leaving everything else unchanged. I'm currently comparing .config files
for kernel versions 4.9.34 and 4.12.5 again, but nothing catches my eye.

As for the symptoms, I wonder: Outbound nameserver access is seizing up
completely, while I can still access the servers via SSH at the same
time. Could it be something that kills UDP after the servers are active
for a while, but leaves TCP alive?

-Ralph

[gentoo-user] install under centos606

[mad.scientist.at.large]

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Any likely problems if i install the stage3 tarball etc. under centos6.6?  tried the live dvd but it has problems with my current graphics card (framebuffer driver).  

I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could really use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts you don't need to and the "flow" is rather lost.  It's an extremely verbose document which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install procedure.  it's not a bad document, merely poorly organized.  I do appreciate the work that went into it, and it's good to have the detail available, but a more hierarchical procedure would be more readable and understandable.  i'm fairly experienced at linux and it's hard for me to follow, most newbies would  be helplessly confused.  Once i'm more familiar with gentoo i'd be happy to take a stab at it, but not until i'm far more familiar.  Thank you for what is likely the best distro for me and for being transparent, this is meant as purely constructive criticism, and i know no documentation can please all.  no flames please, i've given up on other distro's who's mail list are full of flamers, something that doesn't help anyone.

/OT
yes, i'm dysgraphic, but i try to be concise and use good grammar, and all of my sentences go somewhere.  I also don't expect non-native speakers to be perfect, i know english is a somewhat ugly language in many cases (like spelling), but that's because like gentoo, pieces have been borrowed from all over.  that eclectic nature can be very useful but tends to slightly complicate things and webster didn't do us any favors.  i'm 54 and learned to write cursive/script at least 4 times, it never stuck.  my brain works differently than most but that's often a good thing (i tend to notice things many people miss, and often miss what is obvious to others to some degree).  so bear with me and you might learn something, or ignore my posts and the insight in them but please don't think you can help more than an army of educators has.  if you try to shame me the fault is your's.  i am dyslexic, there are worse things.  i do pay special attention to abbreviations where capitalisation can really matter, it is alot more of an effort for me than for most./OTOFF

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Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Ralph Seichter]

On 21.08.2017 13:49, mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:

> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could
> really use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts
> you don't need to and the "flow" is rather lost. It's an extremely
> verbose document which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install
> procedure. it's not a bad document, merely poorly organized. [...]

I completely disagree. I consider the Gentoo installation documentation
well structured, easy to follow and precise, and I don't know what your
statements like "most newbies would be helplessly confused" are supposed
to be based on. Please don't try to pass on your personal opinions as
facts without providing any proof. Show us a control group of newbies,
most of them helplessly confused, if you can. ;-)

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Zhu Sha Zang]

Nice cross posting "fairly experienced at linux" guy...


Regards


On 08/21/2017 07:49 AM, mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:
> fairly experienced at linux

Re: [gentoo-user] Nameserver lookups fail on virtual server after Kernel upgrade from version 4.9 to 4.12

[Mick]

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On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:35:44 BST Ralph Seichter wrote:
> On 21.08.2017 08:08, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > Ah, so silentoldconfig is effectively the same as old config.
> 
> Silentoldconfig is quite a useful make target, since it only asks about
> newly introduced kernel options.

... and it also takes account of dependencies without asking.  The difference 
between the two is that silentoldconfig does not display any other modules on 
the screen other than those new entries for which user input is required.

I prefer oldconfig because it helps me orientate myself down the kernel tree, 
by looking at modules preceding the new entries.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Mick]

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On Monday, 21 August 2017 12:49:27 BST mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com 
wrote:
> Any likely problems if i install the stage3 tarball etc. under centos6.6? 
> tried the live dvd but it has problems with my current graphics card
> (framebuffer driver). 

I haven't tried out installing Gentoo using a CentOS LiveCD, but I have 
installed it using Knoppix and more recently I have been exclusively using 
systemrescueCD.  I recommend you give it a spin.


> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could really
> use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts you don't
> need to and the "flow" is rather lost.

I think the flow is not bad, for my needs at least.  For example this page 
offers a chapter at a time:

 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64

which walks you through the installation in a structured manner.  You can skip 
the section you are familiar with or have processed already.


> It's an extremely verbose document
> which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install procedure.

Well you can't cover all edge use cases in a document which has to introduce 
new users to this meta-distro, but it should get any willing participant to a 
boot prompt after some diligent application of keyboard effort.


> it's
> not a bad document, merely poorly organized.  I do appreciate the work that
> went into it, and it's good to have the detail available, but a more
> hierarchical procedure would be more readable and understandable.  i'm
> fairly experienced at linux and it's hard for me to follow, most newbies
> would  be helplessly confused.  Once i'm more familiar with gentoo i'd be
> happy to take a stab at it, but not until i'm far more familiar.  Thank you
> for what is likely the best distro for me and for being transparent, this
> is meant as purely constructive criticism, and i know no documentation can
> please all.  no flames please, i've given up on other distro's who's mail
> list are full of flamers, something that doesn't help anyone.
> 
> /OT
> yes, i'm dysgraphic, but i try to be concise and use good grammar, and all
> of my sentences go somewhere.  I also don't expect non-native speakers to
> be perfect, i know english is a somewhat ugly language in many cases (like
> spelling), but that's because like gentoo, pieces have been borrowed from
> all over.  that eclectic nature can be very useful but tends to slightly
> complicate things and webster didn't do us any favors.  i'm 54 and learned
> to write cursive/script at least 4 times, it never stuck.  my brain works
> differently than most but that's often a good thing (i tend to notice
> things many people miss, and often miss what is obvious to others to some
> degree).  so bear with me and you might learn something, or ignore my posts
> and the insight in them but please don't think you can help more than an
> army of educators has.  if you try to shame me the fault is your's.  i am
> dyslexic, there are worse things.  i do pay special attention to
> abbreviations where capitalisation can really matter, it is alot more of an
> effort for me than for most./OTOFF

For someone who is dysgraphic/dyslexic I think you are managing extremely 
well, so this won't stop you trying out Gentoo, even if the handbook appears 
awkward at times.  I seem to recall a shorter guide for more advanced users 
but I can't find it at present.  Others may have a URL for it.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Stroller]

> On 21 Aug 2017, at 12:49, mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:
> 
> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could really use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts you don't need to and the "flow" is rather lost.  It's an extremely verbose document which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install procedure.  it's not a bad document, merely poorly organised.

I always use the quick install guide, although I don't know if it's as well maintained.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=gentoo+quick+install

Stroller


PS: Could I ask you to set your mailer to use plain text when posting to the list, please?

Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[R0b0t1]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Ralph Seichter
<m16+gentoo@monksofcool.net> wrote:
> On 21.08.2017 13:49, mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:
>
>> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could
>> really use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts
>> you don't need to and the "flow" is rather lost. It's an extremely
>> verbose document which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install
>> procedure. it's not a bad document, merely poorly organized. [...]
>
> I completely disagree. I consider the Gentoo installation documentation
> well structured, easy to follow and precise, and I don't know what your
> statements like "most newbies would be helplessly confused" are supposed
> to be based on. Please don't try to pass on your personal opinions as
> facts without providing any proof. Show us a control group of newbies,
> most of them helplessly confused, if you can. ;-)
>

I think most of the problem is all the handbook does is give you a
working system in the technical sense. Everything else is up to you to
discover, which can be very hard if you are lacking terminology or
very specific experience.

A good example of a more fully featured guide is Sakaki's EFI
Installation Guide
(https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Sakaki's_EFI_Install_Guide). I have
proposed the handbook be updated, at least on an architecture-specific
basis, to reflect common installation options (as was it seems was
originally intended). However, the Handbook team seems very
conservative and hard to contact.

Among my suggestions were transferring the Handbook to Gollum, so the
pages could be managed from Git. Porting the whole Wiki to Gollum
might make it hard for normal users to contribute, but I suspect only
particularly adept users would have good contributions to the
Handbook.

R0b0t1.

Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[R0b0t1]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:49 AM,  <mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com> wrote:
> Any likely problems if i install the stage3 tarball etc. under centos6.6?
> tried the live dvd but it has problems with my current graphics card
> (framebuffer driver).

Sir, I would be extremely careful with that release: both the major
and minor version are the number of the beast. If anything goes wrong
I do not doubt it is possible to spend time troubleshooting it, but in
general I would chalk the existence of most problems up to Satan's
involvement.

I will be sure to pray for you so that you might get Gentoo installed.
I have found my Gentoo usership to be a very rewarding experience.

Respectfully,
     R0b0t1