From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A761415800A for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:46:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FB1CE0D5D; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:46:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.kusoneko.moe (mail.kusoneko.moe [IPv6:2001:19f0:b001:957:5400:4ff:fe66:4b54]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A9DCE0CB7 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 18:46:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kusoneko.moe; s=20230417; t=1690829187; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=/LaZc/9Z6DuEavtAiyBAs9SBZ5YtyBSAWhxQBMbSsnA=; b=FjFcZQRD1mE6BbymHOX83HmRKPbpBFs6S/41rM2Zj8jlpjxnH/Eyph7Fmv+hwO09ZNKNph ZAvN0Ah4EDzMHyj8PSAxrbVMOrtJRDtW/odNtLh9st7yJXuQyaNhxJLSRZJOcWEmiXNWmy q9WSZM+j3dWwCE5P618t48+kTcPiMu/KyQCgPjLG8NUjF+0sfnBKBQJb3rwMSExul305/S g6qH/1VtnHhEgAEbqHLHQWo9iYPcS+vIQcpFPc1wb3cvC2p1nYWfHBj1E43mT21zw4iEVV cA8n6n/eYmszVcs8uhLUqCZdcxCF5FSzANvB/1f8qEi0gaWfQl/+3DdgVvbKLw== Received: from dummy.faircode.eu (modemcable064.85-176-173.mc.videotron.ca [173.176.85.64]) by mail.kusoneko.moe (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 57c9e370 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 14:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Kusoneko To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <398d0098-9f37-41d3-99ac-6350aa4b414d@kusoneko.moe> In-Reply-To: References: <2313990.ElGaqSPkdT@wstn> <5ae103ff53770b6d9eff69468422bad306e7f326.camel@connell.tech> <13319002.uLZWGnKmhe@wstn> <66c296da3982620ef69abcd588b8377f8a588450.camel@connell.tech> <9e07b48f50e29a4d260f88297f9f0d386075a97a.camel@connell.tech> <1eb06d73-13d4-4f6e-8de7-791afd547c0b@kusoneko.moe> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Email clients Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Correlation-ID: <398d0098-9f37-41d3-99ac-6350aa4b414d@kusoneko.moe> X-Archives-Salt: 7145962e-75a1-4078-9b11-c7e74667712f X-Archives-Hash: 10c0085084d3729805379c3974580ad1 Jul 31, 2023 13:52:25 Grant Edwards : > On 2023-07-31, Kusoneko wrote: >> >>> Don't get me wrong, I'm "team plaintext" all day every day but I'm not >>> going to make my life more difficult on principles.=C2=A0 There are hil= ls >>> worth dying on but this isn't mine. >> >> Iirc, you can setup mutt to open html emails either in a web browser >> or with something like w3m. > > Wait -- those are web engines. I thought the argument was that mutt > didn't need a web engine. If that was the case, then you would have no > need to set up mutt to use them to display HTML email. Why would you want a mail client to also be a web browser when you already = have a web browser to do that job? I will never understand the mindset of t= rying to include web browsers into everything. Web browsers are massive pie= ces of software, including one in everything massively increases the compil= e time and resource usage of the software it's added into. >> There's no need for a web engine in a mail client when you have a >> perfectly workable web engine in the browser. > > Composing HTML also e-mails requires a web-engine. Sure, you can do > that using emacs, markdown mode, a web browser for previewing, and so > on. It's a lot of work. I don't get the point of composing HTML emails. Let's be honest here, unles= s you're writing emails as part of a company with complicated messes of htm= l signatures or marketing emails, the only difference between composing a p= lain text email and a html email for most people is unnoticeable. At most t= hey might use a specific font, text color, font size and maybe include an i= mage or 2 which will land in the attachments anyways. Displaying the text w= ith those unnecessary stylistic changes that only really pleases the eye of= the writer makes the whole thing pointless. You could just as easily strip= all the HTML from the email and leave only the text and attachments and yo= u'd get a much better experience on the receiving end. >> You can easily reply to html mail in plain text either way, > > Some other MUAs handle plain text acceptably, some don't.=C2=A0 After I s= aw > how badly Outlook displayed my plaintext e-mails, I tried using > markdown to auto-magically send mixed-mode text/html emails (see > muttdown). That worked OK, but was a hassle. > > I eventually gave up and switched to Thunderbird. If a MUA can't handle plain text, that's technically not your problem but t= he MUA's dev's problem. >> and most html mail are marketing or newsletter emails from companies >> where replying isn't needed anyways. > > Most of the HTML mail that lands in my inbox is from friends, family > and colleagues. Like I said earlier, for friends and family, most are likely plain text wit= h extra steps, with perhaps a few attachments. The colleagues one is likely= mostly the same except for a few exceptions and the signatures. They also = usually get Google Suite or Office365 for their email stuff, which essentia= lly means that for them specifically you can just go with the... ugh... web= mail client they offer.