[gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:


thufir@localhost ~ $
thufir@localhost ~ $ whoami
thufir
thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost 119
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
thufir@localhost ~ $ ping localhost
PING hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64
time=0.090 ms
64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64
time=0.073 ms
64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64
time=0.073 ms
64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64
time=0.071 ms

--- hawat.thufir.gmail.com ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2997ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.071/0.076/0.090/0.013 ms
thufir@localhost ~ $ date
Mon Mar 27 05:56:59 IST 2006
thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet vcn.bc.ca
Trying 207.102.64.2...
Connected to vcn.bc.ca.
Escape character is '^]'.


SunOS 5.8

login:

[...]



Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?



thanks,


Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Jerry McBride]

On Sunday 26 March 2006 23:58, THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:
>
>
> thufir@localhost ~ $
> thufir@localhost ~ $ whoami
> thufir
> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost 119
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
> thufir@localhost ~ $ ping localhost
> PING hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64
> time=0.090 ms
> 64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64
> time=0.073 ms
> 64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64
> time=0.073 ms
> 64 bytes from hawat.thufir.gmail.com (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64
> time=0.071 ms
>
> --- hawat.thufir.gmail.com ping statistics ---
> 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2997ms
> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.071/0.076/0.090/0.013 ms
> thufir@localhost ~ $ date
> Mon Mar 27 05:56:59 IST 2006
> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet vcn.bc.ca
> Trying 207.102.64.2...
> Connected to vcn.bc.ca.
> Escape character is '^]'.
>
>
> SunOS 5.8
>
> login:
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Thufir

The localhost is not a service.... it's an ip.

Jerry

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Gabriel Dain]

If you really wanted to telnet to yourself (i dont see any
circumstance in which this would be useful), you'd have to set up a
telnet/ssh server:
http://freessh.org/unix.html
--
Gabriel Dain

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 27. März 2006 07:37 schrieb ext Gabriel Dain:

> If you really wanted to telnet to yourself (i dont see any
> circumstance in which this would be useful), you'd have to set up a
> telnet/ssh server:
> http://freessh.org/unix.html

Did you actually read the original mail? You don't need a telnet server to 
make a telnet connection to the NNTP server.

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Hambornerstraße 55      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40472 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 190 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 27. März 2006 06:58 schrieb ext THUFIR HAWAT:

> I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:
>
> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost 119
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused

Well, it seems leafnote is either _not_ up and running or not listening for 
connections on network interface lo.

> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused

dito for telnetd.

> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet vcn.bc.ca
> Trying 207.102.64.2...
> Connected to vcn.bc.ca.

vcn.bc.ca == localhost??

> Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?

Because the services you want to connect to are not available.

HTH...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Hambornerstraße 55      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40472 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Iain Buchanan]

On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 05:58 +0100, THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:
[snip]
> Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?

maybe your services are not listening on lo, and only on eth0?
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's
incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here."
		-- Muad'dib, "Dune"

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Gabriel Dain]

> Did you actually read the original mail? You don't need a telnet server to
> make a telnet connection to the NNTP server.
No, sorry, I thought the original mail was the one starting with
> I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:

my bad
--
Gabriel Dain

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Alexander Skwar]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:

> Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?

Is leafnode enabled? Or is it still disabled?

Check your xinetd configuration.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
People who go to conferences are the ones who shouldn't.
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Matt Richards]

> THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
>
>> Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
>
> Is leafnode enabled? Or is it still disabled?
>
> Check your xinetd configuration.
>
> Alexander Skwar
> --
> People who go to conferences are the ones who shouldn't.
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
you might want to also try a
netstat -an
and see if your computer is listerning on the nntp port
and if it is what interface(s) is it listerning on ?

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, Matt Richards <matt@mattstone.net> wrote:
> > THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> >
> >> Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
> >
> > Is leafnode enabled? Or is it still disabled?
> >
> > Check your xinetd configuration.

I think it's enabled, see below.

> > Alexander Skwar
> > --
> > People who go to conferences are the ones who shouldn't.
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
> you might want to also try a
> netstat -an
> and see if your computer is listerning on the nntp port
> and if it is what interface(s) is it listerning on ?

None, apparently--see below.

> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

thufir@localhost ~ $
thufir@localhost ~ $
thufir@localhost ~ $ cat -n /etc/hosts
     1  # /etc/hosts:  This file describes a number of hostname-to-address
     2  #              mappings for the TCP/IP subsystem.  It is mostly
     3  #              used at boot time, when no name servers are running.
     4  #              On small systems, this file can be used instead of a
     5  #              "named" name server.  Just add the names, addresses
     6  #              and any aliases to this file...
     7  # $Header: /home/cvsroot/gentoo-src/rc-scripts/etc/hosts,v 1.8
2003/08/04 20:12:25 azarah Exp $
     8  #
     9
    10  #127.0.0.1      localhost
    11  127.0.0.1       hawat.thufir.invalid arrakis localhost
    12  192.168.0.2     gravity.twi-31o2.org gravity
thufir@localhost ~ $ cat -n /etc/leafnode/config
     1  ## Unread articles will be deleted after this many days if
     2  ## you don't define special expire times. Mandatory.
     3  expire = 20
     4
     5  ## This is the NNTP server leafnode fetches its news from.
     6  ## You need read and post access to it. Mandatory.
     7  server = shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
     8
     9
    10  hostname = hawat.thufir.invalid
    11
    12  initialfetch = 5
thufir@localhost ~ $ cat -n /etc/xinetd.conf
     1  # /etc/xinetd.conf: sample configuration file for xinetd
     2
     3  defaults
     4  {
     5          only_from      = localhost
     6          instances      = 60
     7          log_type       = SYSLOG authpriv info
     8          log_on_success = HOST PID
     9          log_on_failure = HOST
    10          cps            = 25 30
    11  }
    12
    13  includedir /etc/xinetd.d
thufir@localhost ~ $ cat -n /etc/xinetd.d/leafnode-nntp
     1  # default: off
     2  # description: Leafnode - accepts connections on port 119 (NNTP)
     3
     4  service nntp
     5  {
     6          socket_type = stream
     7          protocol    = tcp
     8          wait        = no
     9          user        = news
    10          server      = /usr/sbin/leafnode
    11          disable     = no
    12  }
thufir@localhost ~ $ netstat -an | grep nntp
thufir@localhost ~ $ date
Mon Mar 27 14:59:55 IST 2006
thufir@localhost ~ $

Is it a problem with the FQDN?  On re-reading the FAQ, I changed the
hostname as I don't own gmail.com, but I *do* have an account with
gmail, so...

I also have a thread on news.softwear.readers, pardon for the
multiposting.  I was just trying to address the telnet issue here. 
Most of what's been written in reply goes over my head.


-Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, Jerry McBride <mcbrides9@comcast.net> wrote:
..
> The localhost is not a service.... it's an ip.
>
> Jerry
..

Jerry, I'm not understanding the signicance of that.  Ping is
resolving localhost to the ip, yes?


thufir@localhost ~ $
thufir@localhost ~ $
thufir@localhost ~ $ ping localhost
PING hawat.thufir.invalid (127.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from hawat.thufir.invalid (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.084 ms
64 bytes from hawat.thufir.invalid (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.072 ms
64 bytes from hawat.thufir.invalid (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.077 ms

--- hawat.thufir.invalid ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 1998ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.072/0.077/0.084/0.011 ms
thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet 127.0.0.1
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
thufir@localhost ~ $ date



thanks,

Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, Gabriel Dain <gabrieldain@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you really wanted to telnet to yourself (i dont see any
> circumstance in which this would be useful), you'd have to set up a
> telnet/ssh server:
> http://freessh.org/unix.html
> --
> Gabriel Dain
..

I emerged

netkit-telnetd
Description: Standard Linux telnet client and server

which I think is sufficient for my needs (?).



I'm going by the following (except that I'm doing xinit):


 Leafnode should run now.

Try telnet on port 119:

  $ telnet localhost 119
  Hopefully you see something like that:

  [christian@maggie ~]$ telnet localhost 119
  Trying 127.0.0.1...
  Connected to localhost.localdomain.
  Escape character is '^]'.
  200 Leafnode NNTP Daemon, version 1.9.14 running at maggie.scriptkiddie.de

<http://www-student.cs.uni-bonn.de/~kuester/html/slrn-with-leafnode-HOWTO-3.html>



thanks,

Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, Dirk Heinrichs <ext-dirk.heinrichs@nokia.com> wrote:
...
> Well, it seems leafnote is either _not_ up and running or not
> listening for
> connections on network interface lo.

Pardon, I'm not understanding what you mean by network interface.

> > thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost
> > Trying 127.0.0.1...
> > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
>
> dito for telnetd.
>
> > thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet vcn.bc.ca
> > Trying 207.102.64.2...
> > Connected to vcn.bc.ca.
>
> vcn.bc.ca == localhost??

Ah, I should've explained.  vcn.bc.ca =/= locahost, that's just a
random place to which it's possible to telnet.  I was just
demonstrating that the telnet client was working properly, that's all
:)

> > Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
>
> Because the services you want to connect to are not available.
>
> HTH...
...

Yes, it does, thank you.  How do I find out why they're not available, though?


-Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, Iain Buchanan <iaindb@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 05:58 +0100, THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> > I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:
> [snip]
> > Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
>
> maybe your services are not listening on lo, and only on eth0?
> --
> Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>
>
> Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's
> incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here."
>                 -- Muad'dib, "Dune"


Nice quote :)

Interesting, lo versus eth0.  I don't understand the question, as I
don't know what lo means, but that might be it :)

"lo" refers to an interface?


thanks,

Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Arnau Bria Ramírez]

El Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:28:20 +0100
THUFIR HAWAT dijo:

> Nice quote :)
> 
> Interesting, lo versus eth0.  I don't understand the question, as I
> don't know what lo means, but that might be it :)
> 
> "lo" refers to an interface?

# ifconfig -a
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:01:02:15:CA:1F  
          inet addr:192.168.0.222  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:39243262 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:1 frame:0
          TX packets:35306050 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:51734647 (49.3 Mb)  TX bytes:665079335 (634.2 Mb)
          Interrupt:10 Base address:0xdc00 

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:6930273 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:6930273 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:750362542 (715.6 Mb)  TX bytes:750362542 (715.6 Mb)

Very useful for internal communication.

Cheers!
-- 
Arnau Bria
http://blog.emergetux.net

Por regla general, las chicas malas suelen ser las que están más buenas.
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[kashani]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:

Wow, you got some wacky ass answers on this.

First off telneting to the port should work as long as you're on the 
same box since it's supposed to be running on 127.0.0.1 otherwise known 
as lo or the loopback address which should clear up that.

Then I'd look at logs. xinetd can be finicky about starting services if 
they aren't configured right. I'd restart xinetd and see what it drops 
in /var/log/messages about which services it's activating. It's usually 
pretty good about telling you if it's accepting a service though it may 
not tell you why it decided a service wasn't up to snuff.

As root a netstat -ptln might tell you if xinetd is holding the port, 
but since xinetd is a superdaemon of sorts it might not show it on the 
port unless there is a working connection... I'm not sure and have no 
desire to install xinetd to find out. :)

kashani
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[John Jolet]

On Mar 27, 2006, at 12:51 PM, kashani wrote:

> THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
>> I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:
>
> Wow, you got some wacky ass answers on this.
>
> First off telneting to the port should work as long as you're on  
> the same box since it's supposed to be running on 127.0.0.1  
> otherwise known as lo or the loopback address which should clear up  
> that.
>
> Then I'd look at logs. xinetd can be finicky about starting  
> services if they aren't configured right. I'd restart xinetd and  
> see what it drops in /var/log/messages about which services it's  
> activating. It's usually pretty good about telling you if it's  
> accepting a service though it may not tell you why it decided a  
> service wasn't up to snuff.
>
> As root a netstat -ptln might tell you if xinetd is holding the  
> port, but since xinetd is a superdaemon of sorts it might not show  
> it on the port unless there is a working connection... I'm not sure  
> and have no desire to install xinetd to find out. :)

as long as it's configured to not be turned off, xinetd will hold the  
port open.  I use netstat -a|grep LISTEN and it should show up....

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, kashani <kashani-list@badapple.net> wrote:
> THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> > I want to test that leafnode is up and running, so am using telnet:
>
> Wow, you got some wacky ass answers on this.
>
> First off telneting to the port should work as long as you're on the
> same box since it's supposed to be running on 127.0.0.1 otherwise known
> as lo or the loopback address which should clear up that.

Ok :)

> Then I'd look at logs. xinetd can be finicky about starting services if
> they aren't configured right. I'd restart xinetd

I've been rebooting :(
Is there a better way?

> and see what it drops
> in /var/log/messages about which services it's activating. It's usually
> pretty good about telling you if it's accepting a service though it may
> not tell you why it decided a service wasn't up to snuff.
>
> As root a netstat -ptln might tell you if xinetd is holding the port,
> but since xinetd is a superdaemon of sorts it might not show it on the
> port unless there is a working connection... I'm not sure and have no
> desire to install xinetd to find out. :)
>
> kashani
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

thufir@localhost ~ $
thufir@localhost ~ $ su -
Password:
localhost ~ # whoami
root
localhost ~ # cat -n /var/log/messages | grep nntp
  2764  Mar 26 12:59:32 localhost xinetd[485]: Reading included
configuration file: /etc/xinetd.d/leafnode-nntp
[file=/etc/xinetd.d/leafnode-nntp] [line=10]
  2776  Mar 26 12:59:32 localhost xinetd[485]: removing nntp
localhost ~ # cat -n /var/log/messages | grep leaf
  1054  Mar 22 13:40:13 localhost leafnode[19860]: cannot open
/etc/leafnode/config
  1055  Mar 22 13:40:13 localhost leafnode[19860]: 503 Unable to read
configuration file, exiting; the server's syslog should have more
information.
  1070  Mar 22 14:52:05 localhost leafnode[2613]: cannot open
/etc/leafnode/config
  1071  Mar 22 14:52:05 localhost leafnode[2613]: 503 Unable to read
configuration file, exiting; the server's syslog should have more
information.
  1074  Mar 22 15:01:38 localhost leafnode[21414]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost.localdomain". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique,
fully qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts
will not work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the
README-FQDN file for details.
  1075  Mar 22 15:03:29 localhost leafnode[29433]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost.localdomain". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique,
fully qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts
will not work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the
README-FQDN file for details.
  1076  Mar 22 15:04:40 localhost leafnode[2373]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost.localdomain". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique,
fully qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts
will not work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the
README-FQDN file for details.
  1154  Mar 22 19:40:11 localhost leafnode[21275]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost.localdomain". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique,
fully qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts
will not work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the
README-FQDN file for details.
  1907  Mar 25 00:53:59 localhost leafnode[14349]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique, fully
qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts will not
work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the README-FQDN file
for details.
  2129  Mar 25 00:55:49 localhost leafnode[9744]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique, fully
qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts will not
work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the README-FQDN file
for details.
  2137  Mar 25 00:58:00 localhost leafnode[10022]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique, fully
qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts will not
work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the README-FQDN file
for details.
  2180  Mar 25 06:18:03 localhost leafnode[10838]: config: unknown
line 9: "host = hawat.thufir.gmail.com"
  2181  Mar 25 06:18:03 localhost leafnode[10838]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique, fully
qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts will not
work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the README-FQDN file
for details.
  2197  Mar 25 06:18:39 localhost leafnode[11036]: config: unknown
line 9: "host = hawat.thufir.gmail.com"
  2198  Mar 25 06:18:39 localhost leafnode[11036]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique, fully
qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts will not
work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the README-FQDN file
for details.
  2425  Mar 25 06:20:43 localhost leafnode[9741]: config: unknown line
9: "host = hawat.thufir.gmail.com"
  2426  Mar 25 06:20:43 localhost leafnode[9741]:  Leafnode must have
a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
"localhost". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique, fully
qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts will not
work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the README-FQDN file
for details.
  2520  Mar 25 18:12:59 localhost leafnode[30182]: config: unknown
line 9: "host = hawat.thufir.gmail.com"
  2521  Mar 25 18:12:59 localhost leafnode[30182]: connect from (local
file) (no IP) to hawat.thufir.gmail.com (no IP) (my fqdn:
hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
  2522  Mar 25 18:12:59 localhost leafnode[30182]: unable to open
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo: No such file or directory
  2523  Mar 25 18:16:49 localhost leafnode[30188]: config: unknown
line 9: "host = hawat.thufir.gmail.com"
  2524  Mar 25 18:16:49 localhost leafnode[30188]: connect from (local
file) (no IP) to hawat.thufir.gmail.com (no IP) (my fqdn:
hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
  2525  Mar 25 18:16:49 localhost leafnode[30188]: unable to open
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo: No such file or directory
  2530  Mar 25 18:37:30 localhost fetchnews[30246]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 0, debugmode is 0
  2531  Mar 25 18:37:30 localhost fetchnews[30246]: unable to open
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/groupinfo: No such file or directory
  2549  Mar 25 18:58:28 localhost leafnode[30304]: config: unknown
line 9: "host = hawat.thufir.gmail.com"
  2550  Mar 25 18:58:28 localhost leafnode[30304]: connect from (local
file) (no IP) to hawat.thufir.gmail.com (no IP) (my fqdn:
hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
  2572  Mar 25 21:24:54 localhost leafnode[30753]: connect from (local
file) (no IP) to hawat.thufir.gmail.com (no IP) (my fqdn:
hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
  2573  Mar 25 21:25:24 localhost leafnode[30756]: connect from (local
file) (no IP) to hawat.thufir.gmail.com (no IP) (my fqdn:
hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
  2584  Mar 25 22:33:28 localhost leafnode[30978]: connect from (local
file) (no IP) to hawat.thufir.gmail.com (no IP) (my fqdn:
hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
  2585  Mar 25 22:33:48 localhost fetchnews[30994]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 3, debugmode is 0
  2599  Mar 25 22:34:12 localhost fetchnews[30998]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 3, debugmode is 0
  2614  Mar 25 22:45:26 localhost fetchnews[31017]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 3, debugmode is 0
  2627  Mar 25 22:45:49 localhost fetchnews[31017]:
shawnews.vc.shawcable.net: reading server info from
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
  2630  Mar 25 22:46:20 localhost fetchnews[31019]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 3, debugmode is 0
  2634  Mar 25 22:46:27 localhost fetchnews[31019]:
shawnews.vc.shawcable.net: reading server info from
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
  2638  Mar 25 22:54:24 localhost fetchnews[31054]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 3, debugmode is 0
  2642  Mar 25 22:54:31 localhost fetchnews[31054]:
shawnews.vc.shawcable.net: reading server info from
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
  2645  Mar 25 22:57:36 localhost leafnode[31057]: connect from (local
file) (no IP) to hawat.thufir.gmail.com (no IP) (my fqdn:
hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
  2764  Mar 26 12:59:32 localhost xinetd[485]: Reading included
configuration file: /etc/xinetd.d/leafnode-nntp
[file=/etc/xinetd.d/leafnode-nntp] [line=10]
  2873  Mar 27 01:39:13 localhost fetchnews[3169]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 0, debugmode is 0
  2877  Mar 27 01:39:20 localhost fetchnews[3169]:
shawnews.vc.shawcable.net: reading server info from
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
  2906  Mar 27 04:32:26 localhost fetchnews[20298]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 3, debugmode is 0
  2910  Mar 27 04:32:38 localhost fetchnews[20298]:
shawnews.vc.shawcable.net: reading server info from
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
  3153  Mar 27 05:30:36 localhost fetchnews[10070]: leafnode
1.11.3.rel: verbosity level is 3, debugmode is 0
  3165  Mar 27 05:31:25 localhost fetchnews[10070]:
shawnews.vc.shawcable.net: reading server info from
/var/spool/news/leaf.node/shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
localhost ~ # date
Mon Mar 27 21:30:44 IST 2006
localhost ~ #



thanks,

Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, John Jolet <john@jolet.net> wrote:
..
> > As root a netstat -ptln might tell you if xinetd is holding the
> > port, but since xinetd is a superdaemon of sorts it might not
> > show
> > it on the port unless there is a working connection... I'm not
> > sure
> > and have no desire to install xinetd to find out. :)
>
> as long as it's configured to not be turned off, xinetd will hold
> the
> port open.  I use netstat -a|grep LISTEN and it should show
> up....


Based on the /var/log/messages I don't think I have the FQDN correctly set.



localhost ~ #
localhost ~ # netstat -ptln
Active Internet connections (only servers)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address           Foreign Address        
State       PID/Program name
localhost ~ # netstat -a|grep LISTEN
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     12805  /dev/log
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13510  @/tmp/dbus-MfRsQwACax
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13937  /tmp/mapping-thufir
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13745  @/tmp/fam-thufir-
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13478  /tmp/.X11-unix/X0
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13516 
/tmp/ssh-Nyrxjn9813/agent.9813
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13541 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-2672-0-12dd6d02390d6
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13547 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-2655-0-79381fe856347
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13693  /tmp/.ICE-unix/9813
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13702 
/tmp/keyring-xfFTos/socket
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13714 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-267a-0-2cecba2f71d48
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13736 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-267c-0-223b7714985c4
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13781 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-2697-0-3e87c9607e27b
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13806 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-269a-0-4fbf78acead8f
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13832 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-269c-0-631b6b07a050a
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13860 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-269e-0-461554275a402
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13889 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-26a2-0-3d68ff798e2f0
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13925 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-26a8-0-74ff7027c3be2
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     13969 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-26bf-0-48e175a7e63a
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     14103 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-26ca-0-493a1c81bc014
unix  2      [ ACC ]     STREAM     LISTENING     14120 
/tmp/orbit-thufir/linc-26d1-0-415c7c152252c
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/xinetd.conf
     1  # /etc/xinetd.conf: sample configuration file for xinetd
     2
     3  defaults
     4  {
     5          only_from      = localhost
     6          instances      = 60
     7          log_type       = SYSLOG authpriv info
     8          log_on_success = HOST PID
     9          log_on_failure = HOST
    10          cps            = 25 30
    11  }
    12
    13  includedir /etc/xinetd.d
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/xinetd.d/leafnode-nntp
     1  # default: off
     2  # description: Leafnode - accepts connections on port 119 (NNTP)
     3
     4  service nntp
     5  {
     6          socket_type = stream
     7          protocol    = tcp
     8          wait        = no
     9          user        = news
    10          server      = /usr/sbin/leafnode
    11          disable     = no
    12  }
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/leafnode/config
     1  ## Unread articles will be deleted after this many days if
     2  ## you don't define special expire times. Mandatory.
     3  expire = 20
     4
     5  ## This is the NNTP server leafnode fetches its news from.
     6  ## You need read and post access to it. Mandatory.
     7  server = shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
     8
     9
    10  hostname = hawat.thufir.invalid
    11
    12  initialfetch = 5
localhost ~ # date
Mon Mar 27 21:35:53 IST 2006
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/hosts
     1  # /etc/hosts:  This file describes a number of hostname-to-address
     2  #              mappings for the TCP/IP subsystem.  It is mostly
     3  #              used at boot time, when no name servers are running.
     4  #              On small systems, this file can be used instead of a
     5  #              "named" name server.  Just add the names, addresses
     6  #              and any aliases to this file...
     7  # $Header: /home/cvsroot/gentoo-src/rc-scripts/etc/hosts,v 1.8
2003/08/04 20:12:25 azarah Exp $
     8  #
     9
    10
    11  127.0.0.1          localhost
    12  127.0.0.1          hawat.thufir.invalid hawat arrakis
localhost ~ # date
Mon Mar 27 21:38:41 IST 2006
localhost ~ #




thanks,

Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[kashani]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> I've been rebooting :(
> Is there a better way?

/etc/init.d/xinetd stop
/etc/init.d/xinetd start

or

/etc/init.d/xinetd restart


> localhost ~ # date
> Mon Mar 27 21:30:44 IST 2006
> localhost ~ #

I and many others aren't inclined to go searching through a page and 
half of logs ranging over two days especially when it appears that the 
problem has changed or been fixed.

So is it working now? It appears to be doing something.

kashani
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[THUFIR HAWAT]

On 3/27/06, kashani <kashani-list@badapple.net> wrote:
> THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> > I've been rebooting :(
> > Is there a better way?
>
> /etc/init.d/xinetd stop
> /etc/init.d/xinetd start
>
> or
>
> /etc/init.d/xinetd restart
>

Ah, thank you :)

> > localhost ~ # date
> > Mon Mar 27 21:30:44 IST 2006
> > localhost ~ #
>
> I and many others aren't inclined to go searching through a page and
> half of logs ranging over two days especially when it appears that the
> problem has changed or been fixed.
>
> So is it working now? It appears to be doing something.
>
> kashani

Thanks all, yes, the telnet is working :)

Just a few minutes ago it wasn't, but I played around with the hosts
file.  I don't understand why it's working now and not before because
I'm still using a FQDN which I was using from the beginning.  However,
I changed the arrangement of a few things:

localhost ~ #
localhost ~ # telnet localhost 119
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 Leafnode NNTP Daemon, version 1.11.3.rel running at localhost (my
fqdn: hawat.thufir.gmail.com)
^]

telnet> quit
Connection closed.
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/hosts
     1  # /etc/hosts:  This file describes a number of hostname-to-address
     2  #              mappings for the TCP/IP subsystem.  It is mostly
     3  #              used at boot time, when no name servers are running.
     4  #              On small systems, this file can be used instead of a
     5  #              "named" name server.  Just add the names, addresses
     6  #              and any aliases to this file...
     7  # $Header: /home/cvsroot/gentoo-src/rc-scripts/etc/hosts,v 1.8
2003/08/04 20:12:25 azarah Exp $
     8  #
     9
    10
    11  127.0.0.1          localhost
    12  127.0.0.1          hawat.thufir.gmail.com arrakis
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/leafnode/config
     1  ## Unread articles will be deleted after this many days if
     2  ## you don't define special expire times. Mandatory.
     3  expire = 20
     4
     5  ## This is the NNTP server leafnode fetches its news from.
     6  ## You need read and post access to it. Mandatory.
     7  server = shawnews.vc.shawcable.net
     8
     9
    10  hostname = hawat.thufir.gmail.com
    11
    12  initialfetch = 5
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/xinetd.conf
     1  # /etc/xinetd.conf: sample configuration file for xinetd
     2
     3  defaults
     4  {
     5          only_from      = localhost
     6          instances      = 60
     7          log_type       = SYSLOG authpriv info
     8          log_on_success = HOST PID
     9          log_on_failure = HOST
    10          cps            = 25 30
    11  }
    12
    13  includedir /etc/xinetd.d
localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/xinetd.d/leafnode-nntp
     1  # default: off
     2  # description: Leafnode - accepts connections on port 119 (NNTP)
     3
     4  service nntp
     5  {
     6          socket_type = stream
     7          protocol    = tcp
     8          wait        = no
     9          user        = news
    10          server      = /usr/sbin/leafnode
    11          disable     = no
    12  }
localhost ~ # date
Mon Mar 27 23:58:26 IST 2006
localhost ~ #



Thanks so much all.  Pardon if I'm a bit dense with this stuff, I do
my best to read the manual.


-Thufir

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Iain Buchanan]

On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 00:02 +0100, THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> Thanks all, yes, the telnet is working :)
> 
> Just a few minutes ago it wasn't, but I played around with the hosts
> file.  I don't understand why it's working now and not before because
> I'm still using a FQDN which I was using from the beginning.  However,
> I changed the arrangement of a few things:

[snip]

> localhost ~ # cat -n /etc/hosts

[snip]

>     11  127.0.0.1          localhost
>     12  127.0.0.1          hawat.thufir.gmail.com arrakis

typically, in your /etc/hosts file (as far as I have learnt it anyway)
you would leave the 127.0.0.1 line just with localhost.

Then put your FQDN, as well as your Shortened-domain-name on your "real
ip address" line:

$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1       localhost
172.16.0.52     orpheus orpheus.pcorp.com.au

So, looking at one of your previous posts:

    10  #127.0.0.1      localhost
    11  127.0.0.1       hawat.thufir.invalid arrakis localhost

(line 10 being ignored because it's commented) when you say "look for
localhost", what is localhost? it's not even in the hosts file, so
nobody knows how to get there!

I think this is what's happening anyway.

At least you have it working.  I am curious though, are
"hawat.thufir.gmail.com" and "arrakis" both names for your machine?

cya,
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

The major sin is the sin of being born.
		-- Samuel Beckett

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Dirk Heinrichs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1716 bytes --]

Am Montag, 27. März 2006 16:25 schrieb ext THUFIR HAWAT:
> On 3/27/06, Dirk Heinrichs <ext-dirk.heinrichs@nokia.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > Well, it seems leafnote is either _not_ up and running or not
> > listening for
> > connections on network interface lo.
>
> Pardon, I'm not understanding what you mean by network interface.

When your machine is connected to a network, it has some kind of network 
interface (usually some piece of hardware). If you try to connect to 
localhost, this happens via the (logical) network interface named lo (the 
loopback interface), while a connection to a remote machine goes through 
the (physical) network interface eth0.

> > > Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
> >
> > Because the services you want to connect to are not available.
>
> Yes, it does, thank you.  How do I find out why they're not available,
> though?

From the other mails you have written in this thread I meanwhile know that 
you're trying to start leafnode via xinetd (you should have mentioned this 
right at the beginning, BTW.). So here are some questions:

Did you actually check wether xinetd is running?
If yes, did you restart it after changing its config?
Is xinetd itself configured to listen on interface lo?
Is leafnode configure to listen on interface lo (not sure it needs to when 
xinetd already does)?

HTH...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Hambornerstraße 55      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40472 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 190 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Alexander Skwar]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> On 3/27/06, Jerry McBride <mcbrides9@comcast.net> wrote:
> ..
>> The localhost is not a service.... it's an ip.
>>
>> Jerry
> ..
> 
> Jerry, I'm not understanding the signicance of that.

You used a wrong term. That's all.

>  Ping is
> resolving localhost to the ip, yes?

Well, no. ping is sending icmp packages. And it'll also
resolve hostnames. But that's not the main purpose of
ping. For resolving hostnames, there's host or nslookup.

> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet localhost
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
> thufir@localhost ~ $ telnet 127.0.0.1
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused

Fine. Do you have a telnet server running?

Alexander Skwar
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BOFH Excuse #451:

astropneumatic oscillations in the water-cooling
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Alexander Skwar]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> On 3/27/06, Dirk Heinrichs <ext-dirk.heinrichs@nokia.com> wrote:


>> > Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
>>
>> Because the services you want to connect to are not available.

> 
> Yes, it does, thank you.  How do I find out why they're not available, though?

In the logs. Is leafnode using xinetd, or is it run
as a standalone service? Try to restart the service
(be it xinetd or leafnode) and watch the logs. Try
to connect to leafnode and watch the logs.



Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Alexander Skwar]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> On 3/27/06, Matt Richards <matt@mattstone.net> wrote:
>> > THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
>> >
>> >> Why can I not telnet to my own localhost?
>> >
>> > Is leafnode enabled? Or is it still disabled?
>> >
>> > Check your xinetd configuration.
> 
> I think it's enabled, see below.

Yes, it is, you're right. What's showing up in the logs?


> thufir@localhost ~ $ netstat -an | grep nntp

Of course not. Reading the man pages might help...

-n will not do any name resolving. So, do:

	netstat -an | grep 119

> Is it a problem with the FQDN?  On re-reading the FAQ, I changed the
> hostname as I don't own gmail.com, but I *do* have an account with
> gmail, so...

so... what? You're still not allowed to use gmail.com as the
hostname part of your MID.

> Most of what's been written in reply goes over my head.

Well, there are howtos out there. And there's professional,
paid-for help.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Alexander Skwar]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:

> Based on the /var/log/messages I don't think I have the FQDN correctly set.

What makes you think so?


> localhost ~ # netstat -a|grep LISTEN

Is xinetd running?

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Alexander Skwar]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> On 3/27/06, kashani <kashani-list@badapple.net> wrote:
>> THUFIR HAWAT wrote:

>> Then I'd look at logs. xinetd can be finicky about starting services if
>> they aren't configured right. I'd restart xinetd
> 
> I've been rebooting :(
> Is there a better way?

Ofcourse, there is. eselect rc restart xinetd or /etc/init.d/xinetd restart

>   1054  Mar 22 13:40:13 localhost leafnode[19860]: cannot open
> /etc/leafnode/config

Is that right? There's no config file?

>   1074  Mar 22 15:01:38 localhost leafnode[21414]:  Leafnode must have
> a fully-qualified and globally unique domain name, not just
> "localhost.localdomain". Edit your /etc/hosts file to add a unique,
> fully qualified domain name. "localhost.localdomain" or thereabouts
> will not work; it's qualified, but not unique. Please see the
> README-FQDN file for details.

Did you read that file?

PS: Please do NOT wrap lines of log files, it makes it very
hard to read those messages, IMO.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Andrew Frink]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1111 bytes --]

did you enable telnet in your xinetd configs?

On 3/27/06, THUFIR HAWAT <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/27/06, Gabriel Dain <gabrieldain@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you really wanted to telnet to yourself (i dont see any
> > circumstance in which this would be useful), you'd have to set up a
> > telnet/ssh server:
> > http://freessh.org/unix.html
> > --
> > Gabriel Dain
> ..
>
> I emerged
>
> netkit-telnetd
> Description: Standard Linux telnet client and server
>
> which I think is sufficient for my needs (?).
>
>
>
> I'm going by the following (except that I'm doing xinit):
>
>
> Leafnode should run now.
>
> Try telnet on port 119:
>
>   $ telnet localhost 119
>   Hopefully you see something like that:
>
>   [christian@maggie ~]$ telnet localhost 119
>   Trying 127.0.0.1...
>   Connected to localhost.localdomain.
>   Escape character is '^]'.
>   200 Leafnode NNTP Daemon, version 1.9.14 running at
> maggie.scriptkiddie.de
>
> <
> http://www-student.cs.uni-bonn.de/~kuester/html/slrn-with-leafnode-HOWTO-3.html
> >
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
> Thufir
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] telnet localhost

[Alexander Skwar]

THUFIR HAWAT wrote:
> On 3/27/06, Gabriel Dain <gabrieldain@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you really wanted to telnet to yourself (i dont see any
>> circumstance in which this would be useful), you'd have to set up a
>> telnet/ssh server:
>> http://freessh.org/unix.html
>> --
>> Gabriel Dain
> ..
> 
> I emerged
> 
> netkit-telnetd
> Description: Standard Linux telnet client and server
> 
> which I think is sufficient for my needs (?).

For what needs? Why did you now install a telnet
server? I thought you wanted to get leafnode to
run.

> I'm going by the following (except that I'm doing xinit):
> 
> 
>  Leafnode should run now?

> 
> Try telnet on port 119:
> 
>   $ telnet localhost 119
>   Hopefully you see something like that:
> 
>   [christian@maggie ~]$ telnet localhost 119
>   Trying 127.0.0.1...
>   Connected to localhost.localdomain.
>   Escape character is '^]'.
>   200 Leafnode NNTP Daemon, version 1.9.14 running at maggie.scriptkiddie.de

Your hostname is maggie.scriptkiddie.de? You are
Christian Kuester? If not, does he allow you to
use this hostname?

> <http://www-student.cs.uni-bonn.de/~kuester/html/slrn-with-leafnode-HOWTO-3.html>
                                       ^^^^^^^
Argl.

Don't stupidly copy everything you see there.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
    "Who can fathom the feminine mind?" -Calvin "I like `em anyway" -Hobbes
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