[gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Alexander Kapshuk]

Howdy,

Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
some other package?

openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.

The list's advice would be much appreciated.

Re: [gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Dale]

Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
> some other package?
>
> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
>
> The list's advice would be much appreciated.
>
>
>

I have used ntp before, seen others recommend openntps.  At some point I
had trouble getting ntp and opentnpd to work so I started using chrony. 
It worked.  So, if you have trouble with the ntp options, give chrony a
try. 

My preference tho, ntp.  Both seems to be relatively active so flip a
coin and see which works.  :-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Alexander Kapshuk]

On 07/26/2014 03:18 PM, Dale wrote:
> Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
>> some other package?
>>
>> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
>>
>> The list's advice would be much appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
> I have used ntp before, seen others recommend openntps.  At some point I
> had trouble getting ntp and opentnpd to work so I started using chrony. 
> It worked.  So, if you have trouble with the ntp options, give chrony a
> try. 
>
> My preference tho, ntp.  Both seems to be relatively active so flip a
> coin and see which works.  :-)
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
Understood. Thanks.

[gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Holger Hoffstätte]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:05:23 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:

> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
> some other package?

chrony - no competition, even for servers. ntpd is way overrated,
unnecessarily hard to setup correctly, fragile and contrary to
popular belief not even that accurate, unless you use external
HW clocks. Chrony is maintained by Red Hat in cooperation with the
timekeeping code in the kernel.

> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.

Many many years ago I helped port openntpd to Linux. It was OK-ish at
the time and easier/less hassle than ntpd, but the portable version for
Linux stopped working reliably many years ago due to kernel changes.
IMHO it really should no longer be in the tree since it gives a false
sense of accuracy.

just my 0.01€..

-h

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Alexander Kapshuk]

On 07/26/2014 03:31 PM, Holger Hoffstätte wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:05:23 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
>
>> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
>> some other package?
> chrony - no competition, even for servers. ntpd is way overrated,
> unnecessarily hard to setup correctly, fragile and contrary to
> popular belief not even that accurate, unless you use external
> HW clocks. Chrony is maintained by Red Hat in cooperation with the
> timekeeping code in the kernel.
>
>> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
> Many many years ago I helped port openntpd to Linux. It was OK-ish at
> the time and easier/less hassle than ntpd, but the portable version for
> Linux stopped working reliably many years ago due to kernel changes.
> IMHO it really should no longer be in the tree since it gives a false
> sense of accuracy.
>
> just my 0.01€..
>
> -h
>
>
Thanks. That sounds interesting.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Alexander Kapshuk]

On 07/26/2014 03:31 PM, Holger Hoffstätte wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:05:23 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
>
>> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
>> some other package?
> chrony - no competition, even for servers. ntpd is way overrated,
> unnecessarily hard to setup correctly, fragile and contrary to
> popular belief not even that accurate, unless you use external
> HW clocks. Chrony is maintained by Red Hat in cooperation with the
> timekeeping code in the kernel.
>
>> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
> Many many years ago I helped port openntpd to Linux. It was OK-ish at
> the time and easier/less hassle than ntpd, but the portable version for
> Linux stopped working reliably many years ago due to kernel changes.
> IMHO it really should no longer be in the tree since it gives a false
> sense of accuracy.
>
> just my 0.01€..
>
> -h
>
>
Is this gentoo wiki article still relevant when it comes to configuring
chrony on gentoo?
http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Chrony

Or should I stick to the instructions given here:
/usr/share/doc/chrony-1.29.1/chrony.txt.bz2

Thanks.

[gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Holger Hoffstätte]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:14:04 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:

> Is this gentoo wiki article still relevant when it comes to configuring
> chrony on gentoo?
> http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Chrony
> 
> Or should I stick to the instructions given here:
> /usr/share/doc/chrony-1.29.1/chrony.txt.bz2

The wiki article is from 2008 and doesn't seem "too wrong",
but the current ebuilds are a bit more up to date wrt.
default config and init script. The current template config also
contains very detailed instructions and is probably the best way
to get started. How much you need to set up depends on your specific
use case - pure client, steady/interrupted connectivity, server for
other machines on the LAN..

If you only want to be a client just add one or multiple servers
to the config and you are good to go; chrony works well pretty much
out of the box.

-h

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 26 July 2014 12:31:55 Holger Hoffstätte wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:05:23 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
> > Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
> > some other package?
> 
> chrony - no competition, even for servers. ntpd is way overrated,
> unnecessarily hard to setup correctly, fragile and contrary to
> popular belief not even that accurate, unless you use external
> HW clocks. Chrony is maintained by Red Hat in cooperation with the
> timekeeping code in the kernel.

I too have been using chrony since before I can remember, when ntpd could only 
step the clock. Chrony just works - I haven't even bothered to look round for 
an alternative. As the docs say (somewhere or other), if you run any kind of 
mail service, you certainly don't want your clock to step backwards suddenly.

I didn't know Red Hat had taken over its maintenance - thanks for the info.

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Alexander Kapshuk]

On 07/26/2014 09:38 PM, Holger Hoffstätte wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:14:04 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
>
>> Is this gentoo wiki article still relevant when it comes to configuring
>> chrony on gentoo?
>> http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Chrony
>>
>> Or should I stick to the instructions given here:
>> /usr/share/doc/chrony-1.29.1/chrony.txt.bz2
> The wiki article is from 2008 and doesn't seem "too wrong",
> but the current ebuilds are a bit more up to date wrt.
> default config and init script. The current template config also
> contains very detailed instructions and is probably the best way
> to get started. How much you need to set up depends on your specific
> use case - pure client, steady/interrupted connectivity, server for
> other machines on the LAN..
>
> If you only want to be a client just add one or multiple servers
> to the config and you are good to go; chrony works well pretty much
> out of the box.
>
> -h
>
>
Understood. Thanks.

For the time being, I just want to be a client.These are the options
I've got enabled in the config:
grep '^[a-z][a-z]*' /etc/chrony/chrony.conf
server 0.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 1.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 2.pool.ntp.org iburst
maxupdateskew 5
driftfile /var/lib/chrony/drift
keyfile /etc/chrony/chrony.keys
commandkey 1
logdir /var/log/chrony
log measurements statistics tracking

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Dale]

Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
> On 07/26/2014 03:31 PM, Holger Hoffstätte wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:05:23 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
>>
>>> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
>>> some other package?
>> chrony - no competition, even for servers. ntpd is way overrated,
>> unnecessarily hard to setup correctly, fragile and contrary to
>> popular belief not even that accurate, unless you use external
>> HW clocks. Chrony is maintained by Red Hat in cooperation with the
>> timekeeping code in the kernel.
>>
>>> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
>> Many many years ago I helped port openntpd to Linux. It was OK-ish at
>> the time and easier/less hassle than ntpd, but the portable version for
>> Linux stopped working reliably many years ago due to kernel changes.
>> IMHO it really should no longer be in the tree since it gives a false
>> sense of accuracy.
>>
>> just my 0.01€..
>>
>> -h
>>
>>
> Is this gentoo wiki article still relevant when it comes to configuring
> chrony on gentoo?
> http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Chrony
>
> Or should I stick to the instructions given here:
> /usr/share/doc/chrony-1.29.1/chrony.txt.bz2
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>


This is my chrony.conf without all the commented out parts. 

server  64.6.144.6
server  67.159.5.90
server  67.59.168.233
server  204.62.14.98

server  69.50.219.51
server  209.114.111.1

driftfile /etc/chrony.drift

keyfile /etc/chrony/chrony.keys

commandkey 1

logdir /var/log/chrony
log measurements statistics tracking rtc


The last two lines are optional.  Use those if you like to be nosy and
watch it do its thing.  I still have ntpdate installed and use it to
check and see how close it is on occasion.  This is what I get from the
test:

root@fireball / # ntpdate -b -u -q pool.ntp.org
server 198.144.194.12, stratum 2, offset -0.003320, delay 0.10658
server 173.44.32.10, stratum 2, offset -0.003313, delay 0.07515
server 70.60.65.40, stratum 2, offset -0.003059, delay 0.09262
server 38.229.71.1, stratum 2, offset -0.001002, delay 0.09563
26 Jul 15:16:00 ntpdate[10232]: step time server 173.44.32.10 offset
-0.003313 sec
root@fireball / # 

I did a fair sized upgrade the other day and went to the boot runlevel
afterwards to restart the services that were updated.  I'm pretty sure
it has been doing its thing since then without me doing anything to it. 
I think you can use mirrorselect to find the best mirrors for your
area.  I can't recall the command but I bet a search of the Gentoo
forums would find it fairly quick. 

Looking at the howto, the only thing I do different is put it in the
default runlevel.  Unless I am in the default runlevel, there is no
internet access available anyway.  No internet access, no way to set the
clock anyway.  ;-)

Hope that helps.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 450 bytes --]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 20:10:12 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > Chrony is maintained by Red Hat in cooperation with the
> > timekeeping code in the kernel.  
> 
> I didn't know Red Hat had taken over its maintenance - thanks for the
> info.

So the stories about Red Hat trying to force everyone to use systemd and
its components aren't true after all?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Bury a lawyer 12 feet under, because deep down they're nice.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 181 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: re: which NTPd package to use?

[Alexander Kapshuk]

On 07/26/2014 11:25 PM, Dale wrote:
> Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
>> On 07/26/2014 03:31 PM, Holger Hoffstätte wrote:
>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:05:23 +0300, Alexander Kapshuk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
>>>> some other package?
>>> chrony - no competition, even for servers. ntpd is way overrated,
>>> unnecessarily hard to setup correctly, fragile and contrary to
>>> popular belief not even that accurate, unless you use external
>>> HW clocks. Chrony is maintained by Red Hat in cooperation with the
>>> timekeeping code in the kernel.
>>>
>>>> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
>>> Many many years ago I helped port openntpd to Linux. It was OK-ish at
>>> the time and easier/less hassle than ntpd, but the portable version for
>>> Linux stopped working reliably many years ago due to kernel changes.
>>> IMHO it really should no longer be in the tree since it gives a false
>>> sense of accuracy.
>>>
>>> just my 0.01€..
>>>
>>> -h
>>>
>>>
>> Is this gentoo wiki article still relevant when it comes to configuring
>> chrony on gentoo?
>> http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Chrony
>>
>> Or should I stick to the instructions given here:
>> /usr/share/doc/chrony-1.29.1/chrony.txt.bz2
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>
> This is my chrony.conf without all the commented out parts. 
>
> server  64.6.144.6
> server  67.159.5.90
> server  67.59.168.233
> server  204.62.14.98
>
> server  69.50.219.51
> server  209.114.111.1
>
> driftfile /etc/chrony.drift
>
> keyfile /etc/chrony/chrony.keys
>
> commandkey 1
>
> logdir /var/log/chrony
> log measurements statistics tracking rtc
>
>
> The last two lines are optional.  Use those if you like to be nosy and
> watch it do its thing.  I still have ntpdate installed and use it to
> check and see how close it is on occasion.  This is what I get from the
> test:
>
> root@fireball / # ntpdate -b -u -q pool.ntp.org
> server 198.144.194.12, stratum 2, offset -0.003320, delay 0.10658
> server 173.44.32.10, stratum 2, offset -0.003313, delay 0.07515
> server 70.60.65.40, stratum 2, offset -0.003059, delay 0.09262
> server 38.229.71.1, stratum 2, offset -0.001002, delay 0.09563
> 26 Jul 15:16:00 ntpdate[10232]: step time server 173.44.32.10 offset
> -0.003313 sec
> root@fireball / # 
>
> I did a fair sized upgrade the other day and went to the boot runlevel
> afterwards to restart the services that were updated.  I'm pretty sure
> it has been doing its thing since then without me doing anything to it. 
> I think you can use mirrorselect to find the best mirrors for your
> area.  I can't recall the command but I bet a search of the Gentoo
> forums would find it fairly quick. 
>
> Looking at the howto, the only thing I do different is put it in the
> default runlevel.  Unless I am in the default runlevel, there is no
> internet access available anyway.  No internet access, no way to set the
> clock anyway.  ;-)
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>
Terrific. Thanks.

Re: [gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Douglas J Hunley]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 619 bytes --]

On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 5:05 AM, Alexander Kapshuk <
alexander.kapshuk@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
> some other package?
>
> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
>
> The list's advice would be much appreciated.


This is going to be very unpopular with the list, but if you've already
jumped to the systemd camp, it has one built in...

/me ducks


-- 
Douglas J Hunley (doug.hunley@gmail.com)
Twitter: @hunleyd                                               Web:
about.me/douglas_hunley
G+: http://google.com/+DouglasHunley

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1338 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Douglas J Hunley
<doug.hunley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 5:05 AM, Alexander Kapshuk
> <alexander.kapshuk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Which NTPd package would the list recommend using, ntp, openntpd, or
>> some other package?
>>
>> openntpd seems to be easier to set up according to wiki.gentoo.org.
>>
>> The list's advice would be much appreciated.
>
>
> This is going to be very unpopular with the list, but if you've already
> jumped to the systemd camp, it has one built in...

Anybody have a decent comparison of timedated vs ntpd or anything else
for that matter?

Running ntpd isn't hard at all, so I'm not really sure why I'd want to
switch.  At the very least I'd want to ensure that the replacement
covers the basics.

I am running networkd and I'm very happy with it.  Setting it up for
dhcp-only is brain-dead simple, and I have it serving up a bridge for
containers/kvm with fairly little trouble as well.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 28.07.2014 18:47, schrieb Rich Freeman:

> Anybody have a decent comparison of timedated vs ntpd or anything else
> for that matter?
> 
> Running ntpd isn't hard at all, so I'm not really sure why I'd want to
> switch.  At the very least I'd want to ensure that the replacement
> covers the basics.
> 
> I am running networkd and I'm very happy with it.  Setting it up for
> dhcp-only is brain-dead simple, and I have it serving up a bridge for
> containers/kvm with fairly little trouble as well.


AFAI understand it the systemd-timedated.service helps setting clock and
time-related settings ... and if you use it to enable NTP syncing,
systemd-timesyncd.service will actually take over the part of syncing
with ntp servers.

I also preferred chrony over ntp for the last year or so. Better with
laptops etc. and quicker to correct time when there is large offset.

What I haven't yet fully understood:

daemons like chrony bring a specific settings file for
systemd-environments, in this case:

/usr/lib/systemd/ntp-units.d/50-chrony.list (saying "chronyd.service")

In the same directory I see 90-systemd.list (saying
"systemd-timesyncd.service").

As far as I understand this:

if other ntp-software is installed, systemd-timedated.service uses the
ntp-unit with higher priority (in my current case chronyd.service) for
ntp-syncing.

So you may use the systemd-timedated.service to do your settings and in
the same setup let it use another ntp-daemon to actually do the syncing
behind the curtains.

Generalized interface with choice --- nice, isn't it?

;-)

but maybe I misunderstand.

Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 28.07.2014 23:20, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

>> I am running networkd and I'm very happy with it.  Setting it up for
>> dhcp-only is brain-dead simple, and I have it serving up a bridge for
>> containers/kvm with fairly little trouble as well.

shameless pointer to an older blog entry:

http://www.oops.co.at/en/publications/systemd-networkd-network-configuration-for-a-kvm-server

S

Re: [gentoo-user] re: which NTPd package to use?

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 28.07.2014 23:20, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

> As far as I understand this:
> 
> if other ntp-software is installed, systemd-timedated.service uses the
> ntp-unit with higher priority (in my current case chronyd.service) for
> ntp-syncing.
> 
> So you may use the systemd-timedated.service to do your settings and in
> the same setup let it use another ntp-daemon to actually do the syncing
> behind the curtains.

My tests show:

If I manually disable chronyd.service and then do "timedatectl set-ntp
yes" this enables and starts chronyd.service (in my case the higher
priority ntp.unit as mentioned before).

I might additionally emerge net-misc/ntp and see what happens ->

this adds

/usr/lib/systemd/ntp-units.d/60-ntpd.list

with "ntpd.service" inside ... so this would trigger ntpd.service if
chrony would not be installed?

And there is still /etc/systemd/ntp-units.d/ where you can override the
given priorities (if more than one ntp-capable package is installed).

-

I am quite happy with systemd controlling and using chrony here ... just
interesting how things are implemented here.

enough for today: 0:20am here, ntp-synced.

Stefan