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Sat, 08 Mar 2025 14:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.8] ([212.102.44.87]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 46e09a7af769-72a2dac3956sm1341982a34.8.2025.03.08.14.48.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 08 Mar 2025 14:48:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: problem formatting new 256 GB USB stick : glances at gparted To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <3140915.CbtlEUcBR6@rogueboard> <2658421.Lt9SDvczpP@rogueboard> From: Dale Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <35c4444d-446e-d9ca-7ead-8129c0d77595@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 16:48:29 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:128.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/128.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.20 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------256994D0D60DFAE722542A9D" X-Archives-Salt: a824a2c9-5e53-4150-af96-81e8f0ca17e3 X-Archives-Hash: bc8c629f37a38d7ab4ac7b5600c32c63 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------256994D0D60DFAE722542A9D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 11:40:48PM +0100 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger: > >> Another thing to consider: don’t put it into the safe for a year without >> powering it up. As was explained in a previous mail, QLC uses sixteen >> different levels of charge inside one single flash cell. The chance of a bit >> flip increases the longer the SSD is powerless and charge slowly (very >> slowly) dissipates. It’s hard to find exact numbers, and it’s more of a >> statistical question. Could be a research topic for a slow Sunday. ;-) >> Also, don’t you live in a hot area? > I knew I’ve seen this data in the past, but couldn’t remeber where and in > what context. I just stumbled upon the relevant info again. > > If you search for "jedec temperature and data retention" you find this PDF: > https://www.jedec.org/sites/default/files/Alvin_Cox%20%5BCompatibility%20Mode%5D_0.pdf > > It contains establised standard values for flash durability. On slide 28 it > says: > Client-class SSDs should retain their data w/o power for 1 year if used > 8 hours/day at 40 °C and kept at or below 30 °C when off. > There is also a table for other temperatures; the time is cut in half for > 5 degrees more. > > Mind you, that PDF is 15 years old, TLS had just been released to the public > one year earlier according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_cell#Triple-level_cell > > -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ Please do not share anything > from, with or about me on any social network. Some are so convinced, > they don’t even know anymore of what. That is confusing.  Data should be OK for one year without power but only if powered 8 hours per day.  Me scratches my head.  Maybe it means should be OK for a year without power and not sure what to think about rest.  I suspect that things have changed a lot in that time frame despite the confusion.  They may have improved things significantly since then.  Still, if the one year part, less the other part, is accurate then but better now, then my powering up even once a month should be OK.  I only need to worry about if something happens to me and no one touches it for many months, a year or longer.  I think some maker somewhere needs to repeat these tests and see how things stand now.  Then again, maybe the tech is changing so fast, they can't keep up.  Time to update my backups again.  :/  Dale :-)  :-)  --------------256994D0D60DFAE722542A9D Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
Am Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 11:40:48PM +0100 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:


Another thing to consider: don’t put it into the safe for a year without 
powering it up. As was explained in a previous mail, QLC uses sixteen 
different levels of charge inside one single flash cell. The chance of a bit 
flip increases the longer the SSD is powerless and charge slowly (very 
slowly) dissipates. It’s hard to find exact numbers, and it’s more of a 
statistical question. Could be a research topic for a slow Sunday. ;-) 
Also, don’t you live in a hot area?

I knew I’ve seen this data in the past, but couldn’t remeber where and in 
what context. I just stumbled upon the relevant info again.

If you search for "jedec temperature and data retention" you find this PDF:
https://www.jedec.org/sites/default/files/Alvin_Cox%20%5BCompatibility%20Mode%5D_0.pdf

It contains establised standard values for flash durability. On slide 28 it 
says:
Client-class SSDs should retain their data w/o power for 1 year if used
8 hours/day at 40 °C and kept at or below 30 °C when off.
There is also a table for other temperatures; the time is cut in half for
5 degrees more.

Mind you, that PDF is 15 years old, TLS had just been released to the public 
one year earlier according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_cell#Triple-level_cell


-- 
Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

Some are so convinced, they don’t even know anymore of what.


That is confusing.  Data should be OK for one year without power but only if powered 8 hours per day.  Me scratches my head.  Maybe it means should be OK for a year without power and not sure what to think about rest. 

I suspect that things have changed a lot in that time frame despite the confusion.  They may have improved things significantly since then.  Still, if the one year part, less the other part, is accurate then but better now, then my powering up even once a month should be OK.  I only need to worry about if something happens to me and no one touches it for many months, a year or longer. 

I think some maker somewhere needs to repeat these tests and see how things stand now.  Then again, maybe the tech is changing so fast, they can't keep up. 

Time to update my backups again.  :/ 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
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