[gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Jorge Almeida]

I would like to know how the current USE variables are set.
I know that "emerge --info" displays a list of all of them, but it doesn't
discriminate where they come from. I couldn't find clear documentation
about it, but of course I may have missed something. 
In the same line, I find /etc/make.profile/make.defaults _very strange_.
"perl"? Sure. "fortran"? Well, who knows... But "emboss"?!
(In case it doesn't ring a bell immediately: emboss - Adds support for
the European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)
Could this be a joke?
I'm writing "-*" at the beginning of the USE declaration in
/etc/make.conf, but I can't avoid the feeling that this may be a Bad
Thing.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Holly Bostick]

Jorge Almeida schreef:
> I would like to know how the current USE variables are set.

Afaik, they are set by /etc/make/profile/make.defaults, and
overridden/added to
globally by /etc/make.conf, and individually by /etc/portage/package.use.

> I know that "emerge --info" displays a list of all of them, but it
> doesn't discriminate where they come from. I couldn't find clear
> documentation about it, but of course I may have missed something. In
> the same line, I find /etc/make.profile/make.defaults _very strange_.
>  "perl"? Sure. "fortran"? Well, who knows... But "emboss"?! (In case
> it doesn't ring a bell immediately: emboss - Adds support for the
> European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite) Could this be a joke?
> 
Ah, home users, always thinking the universe revolves around them :-).

Linux is quite popular in the scientific community, you know-- I'm sure
the admins at (oh, I dunno, let's just make up something) at Berkely
(where the Seti @Home project is based) or any random lab at MIT feels
the same way when they see +kde as a default USE flag.

The default USE flags represent 'sane defaults' for the broadest range
of the Gentoo userbase (which I assume the devs know more about than you
or I-- certainly I, at least).

So if they feel that a significant enough portion of that userbase
values the emboss flag, who am I to argue? The whole point of Gentoo is
customization, so half of the default USE flags that do apply to me I
disable, and then add another quarter-set of ones that aren't in the
defaults at all-- I spend an hour or two, when installing, just going
through USE flags and setting them up to my personal tastes.

I admit, I've never disabled emboss, because I don't use any programs
that require that USE flag, so I'm happy to let it be.

> I'm writing "-*" at the beginning of the USE declaration in 
> /etc/make.conf, but I can't avoid the feeling that this may be a Bad 
> Thing.

Some say it is, some say it's the only way to go. Never done it myself,
so I don't know one way or another. I eventually have to set my USE
flags anyway (going through them to see what they are if I don't know),
so I don't really see the point in not just getting that over with, but
it's possible that I've missed some hidden benefit of this procedure.

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Holly Bostick wrote:
> Afaik, they are set by /etc/make/profile/make.defaults, and
> overridden/added to
> globally by /etc/make.conf, and individually by /etc/portage/package.use.
> 
The handbook
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2&chap=2
says they come from base, default-linux, default-linux/x86 and
default-linux/x86/2004.3 (as an example). default-linux is empty (which
is not confusing, as it may not be empty in the future) but USE settings
in default-linux/x86 are identical with
/usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2005.1/ (meaning the file
make.defaults in both directories). But are they identical _always_? The
latter directory is the target of the symlink
/etc/make/profile, but what about the former?
> Ah, home users, always thinking the universe revolves around them :-).
> 
> Linux is quite popular in the scientific community, you know-- I'm sure
> the admins at (oh, I dunno, let's just make up something) at Berkely
> (where the Seti @Home project is based) or any random lab at MIT feels
> the same way when they see +kde as a default USE flag.
kde or gnome are DE's. I'm sure every member of the scientific community
needs at least one, be it "bloated" or "minimalistic", and so putting
both of the major ones as default may be an user friendly attitude. 
> 
> The default USE flags represent 'sane defaults' for the broadest range
> of the Gentoo userbase (which I assume the devs know more about than you
> or I-- certainly I, at least).
> 
> So if they feel that a significant enough portion of that userbase
> values the emboss flag, who am I to argue? The whole point of Gentoo is
> customization, so half of the default USE flags that do apply to me I
> disable, and then add another quarter-set of ones that aren't in the
> defaults at all-- I spend an hour or two, when installing, just going
> through USE flags and setting them up to my personal tastes.
Well, I certainly don't know whether a molecular biologist is more
computer savvy than, say, a physicist or an engineer, but anyway I'd
like to believe they're into Linux rather than Windows.

Of course the thing is harmless, but adds a bit to the confusion. And I
still can't help feeling that this is somewhat similar to a desktop
world map showing major cities and a small town that happens to be the
author's hometown. :)
> 

 
Jorge 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Matan Peled]

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Hash: SHA1

Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Holly Bostick wrote:
> 
>>Afaik, they are set by /etc/make/profile/make.defaults, and
>>overridden/added to
>>globally by /etc/make.conf, and individually by /etc/portage/package.use.
>>
> 
> The handbook
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2&chap=2
> says they come from base, default-linux, default-linux/x86 and
> default-linux/x86/2004.3 (as an example). default-linux is empty (which
> is not confusing, as it may not be empty in the future) but USE settings
> in default-linux/x86 are identical with
> /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2005.1/ (meaning the file
> make.defaults in both directories). But are they identical _always_? The
> latter directory is the target of the symlink
> /etc/make/profile, but what about the former?

They are cascading.

AFAIK, if your symlink points to default-linux/x86/2005.1, you'll also pull in
everything in default-linux/x86 and default-linux.

So why are they identical ... ? Good question.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Alexander Skwar]

Jorge Almeida schrieb:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Holly Bostick wrote:

> kde or gnome are DE's. I'm sure every member of the scientific community
> needs at least one,

What would they need that for? And what's the use of the USE
flag? It would make sense, if those *packages* were installed.

> and so putting
> both of the major ones as default may be an user friendly attitude. 

"User Friendly"... Well... That's not correct. *USER* *FRIENDLY*
would be, if *everything* was turned on (as long as it doesn't
conflict). This would be user friendly, as a lot of stuff would
work faster - but it would also lead to *WAY* too fat systems,
which, some might say, isn't user friendly at all.

But, you're quite right, I also can't see why something
as arcane as emboss is in hte default set of USE flags.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:52:00 +0200 Alexander Skwar
<listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
| But, you're quite right, I also can't see why something
| as arcane as emboss is in hte default set of USE flags.

Dead easy. For applications which have optional emboss support, the
most sensible behaviour is to enable it by default.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Alexander Skwar]

Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:52:00 +0200 Alexander Skwar
> <listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
> | But, you're quite right, I also can't see why something
> | as arcane as emboss is in hte default set of USE flags.
> 
> Dead easy. For applications which have optional emboss support, the
> most sensible behaviour is to enable it by default.

Why is 3dfx not enabled by default for xorg? Why are
ANY USE flags disabled? Applying the same logic, it
seems that every (non conflicting) USE flag should be
enabled.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:29:12 +0200 Alexander Skwar
<listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
| > Dead easy. For applications which have optional emboss support, the
| > most sensible behaviour is to enable it by default.
| 
| Why is 3dfx not enabled by default for xorg?

Because most people who use applications which have a 3dfx USE flag do
not require 3dfx support.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Alexander Skwar]

Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:29:12 +0200 Alexander Skwar
> <listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
> | > Dead easy. For applications which have optional emboss support, the
> | > most sensible behaviour is to enable it by default.
> | 
> | Why is 3dfx not enabled by default for xorg?
> 
> Because most people who use applications which have a 3dfx USE flag do
> not require 3dfx support.

Why is ipv6 in make.defaults? Most people don't (yet) use
ipv6 and compiling in ipv6 support may make some applications
be overly bloat.


Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:28:22 +0200 Alexander Skwar
<listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
| Why is ipv6 in make.defaults? Most people don't (yet) use
| ipv6 and compiling in ipv6 support may make some applications
| be overly bloat.

It's part of a vast Gentoo conspiracy to covertly switch everyone over
to ipv6 and kidnap all the world's goats.

-- 
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Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Daniel Vrcic]

* Alexander Skwar <listen@alexander.skwar.name> [05-10-18 14:05]:
> Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:29:12 +0200 Alexander Skwar
> > <listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
> > | Why is 3dfx not enabled by default for xorg?
> > Because most people who use applications which have a 3dfx USE flag do
> > not require 3dfx support.
> Why is ipv6 in make.defaults? Most people don't (yet) use
> ipv6 and compiling in ipv6 support may make some applications
> be overly bloat.

Exactly. 

I've noticed that fetchmail has some long delays when it's compiled with
ipv6. In that case it's probably doing ipv6 lookup first then waiting
for timeout and then finally doing ipv4 lookup. As a result I've been
downloading ~80 mails for half an hour.
 
It's very annoying especially when you know that ipv6 support hasn't
been enabled by you.

-- 
Daniel Vrcic
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:29:39 +0100 (WEST) Jorge Almeida
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
| I would like to know how the current USE variables are set.
| I know that "emerge --info" displays a list of all of them, but it
| doesn't discriminate where they come from. I couldn't find clear
| documentation about it, but of course I may have missed something. 
| In the same line, I find /etc/make.profile/make.defaults _very
| strange_. "perl"? Sure. "fortran"? Well, who knows... But "emboss"?!
| (In case it doesn't ring a bell immediately: emboss - Adds support for
| the European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)
| Could this be a joke?

Uh, no. USE flags do not control whether packages get installed. They
control whether something which has **optional** support will use it.
So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the emboss
support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if you're
installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if you're not
installing science apps you'll never see it anyway.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[John Jolet]

On Oct 14, 2005, at 2:13 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:29:39 +0100 (WEST) Jorge Almeida
> <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> | I would like to know how the current USE variables are set.
> | I know that "emerge --info" displays a list of all of them, but it
> | doesn't discriminate where they come from. I couldn't find clear
> | documentation about it, but of course I may have missed something.
> | In the same line, I find /etc/make.profile/make.defaults _very
> | strange_. "perl"? Sure. "fortran"? Well, who knows... But "emboss"?!
> | (In case it doesn't ring a bell immediately: emboss - Adds  
> support for
> | the European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite)
> | Could this be a joke?
>
> Uh, no. USE flags do not control whether packages get installed. They
> control whether something which has **optional** support will use it.
> So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the emboss
> support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if you're
> installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if you're not
> installing science apps you'll never see it anyway.
>
but if a program has optional support for a package that CAN be a  
prerequisite, based on USE flags, emerge will install that  
prerequisite or not.  In that way, they DO control whether packages  
get installed.
> -- 
> Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
> Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
> Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Holly Bostick]

John Jolet schreef:
> 
> On Oct 14, 2005, at 2:13 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:29:39 +0100 (WEST) Jorge Almeida 
>> <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote: | I would like to know how the 
>> current USE variables are set. | I know that "emerge --info" 
>> displays a list of all of them, but it | doesn't discriminate where
>>  they come from. I couldn't find clear | documentation about it, 
>> but of course I may have missed something. | In the same line, I 
>> find /etc/make.profile/make.defaults _very | strange_. "perl"? 
>> Sure. "fortran"? Well, who knows... But "emboss"?! | (In case it 
>> doesn't ring a bell immediately: emboss - Adds  support for | the 
>> European Molecular Biology Open Software Suite) | Could this be a 
>> joke?
>> 
>> Uh, no. USE flags do not control whether packages get installed. 
>> They control whether something which has **optional** support will 
>> use it. So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the
>> emboss support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if 
>> you're installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if 
>> you're not installing science apps you'll never see it anyway.
>> 
> but if a program has optional support for a package that CAN be a 
> prerequisite, based on USE flags, emerge will install that 
> prerequisite or not.  In that way, they DO control whether packages 
> get installed.
> 

Well, that's true... and I'll even leave aside the fact that USE flags
are the lesser of whatever evils in terms of dragging in "unwanted"
additional applications or libraries, since at least with USE flags you
can control it, but with hard dependencies, you of course can't.

But given that /etc/make.conf (and /etc/portage/package.use)
trumps everything, and given that you can easily see what flags are in
use with emerge info and emerge --verbose, I don't see what the big deal
is as to what the defaults are and where they are set in the first place.

If a USE flag does something you don't want, unset it. Defaults are not
the be-all and end-all of existence; the very presence of 'defaults'
means that the user can control them (if something has a 'default'
setting, that necessarily means that other settings are possible).

It's not as if knowing that the default USE flags are set in
/etc/make.profile (plus other cascaded locations) makes the first hairy
bit of difference, since the user will never be able to control the
contents of that file, but only override their contents manually in the
aforementioned /etc/make.conf and /etc/portage/package.use.

You could edit /etc/make.profile if you liked, I suppose, but Portage
will update it at one or more various points anyway, and then where are you?

Sorry, just a bit cranky this evening.

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Manuel McLure]

Holly Bostick wrote:
> You could edit /etc/make.profile if you liked, I suppose, but Portage
> will update it at one or more various points anyway, and then where are you?

One question for those with more USE flag-fu than I have - does the 
default set of USE flags depend on the packages that have been installed 
into world? It seems to me that at some point I have installed a package 
(for example postgresql) and suddenly found that the next "emerge 
--newuse world" spits out a list of packages it will rebuild with a new 
flag.

-- 
Manuel A. McLure KE6TAW <manuel@mclure.org> <http://www.mclure.org>
...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
no man may kill a cat.                       -- H.P. Lovecraft
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Paul Varner]

On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 13:15 -0700, Manuel McLure wrote:
> One question for those with more USE flag-fu than I have - does the 
> default set of USE flags depend on the packages that have been installed 
> into world? It seems to me that at some point I have installed a package 
> (for example postgresql) and suddenly found that the next "emerge 
> --newuse world" spits out a list of packages it will rebuild with a new 
> flag.

That would be use.defaults, which I personally think is evil. The idea
behind it is if you install a package, then you want to turn on the
corresponding USE flag. All of the current definitions can be found in
$PORTDIR/profiles/base/use.defaults  It contains a list of USE flags
followed by the package that automatically turns that flag on.

Regards,
Paul
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Daniel da Veiga]

I keep control of my USE flags, lets say, "manually". Of course, at
install time you get a couple of defaults just to make sure you don't
miss anything crucial. After that, every package goes trough an emerge
-pv, its USE flags set at packages.use, I compile it. Of course, its
tedious, its slow, but it gives me full control over my system, and I
feel good with all the customized settings.

Eventually a good flag goes to make.conf, but that's rare, most of
them are specific for some packages.

On 10/14/05, Manuel McLure <manuel@mclure.org> wrote:
> Holly Bostick wrote:
> > You could edit /etc/make.profile if you liked, I suppose, but Portage
> > will update it at one or more various points anyway, and then where are you?
>
> One question for those with more USE flag-fu than I have - does the
> default set of USE flags depend on the packages that have been installed
> into world? It seems to me that at some point I have installed a package
> (for example postgresql) and suddenly found that the next "emerge
> --newuse world" spits out a list of packages it will rebuild with a new
> flag.
>
> --
> Manuel A. McLure KE6TAW <manuel@mclure.org> <http://www.mclure.org>
> ...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
> no man may kill a cat.                       -- H.P. Lovecraft
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
>


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:15:17 -0700 Manuel McLure <manuel@mclure.org>
wrote:
| One question for those with more USE flag-fu than I have - does the 
| default set of USE flags depend on the packages that have been
| installed into world? It seems to me that at some point I have
| installed a package (for example postgresql) and suddenly found that
| the next "emerge --newuse world" spits out a list of packages it will
| rebuild with a new flag.

Currently, yes. In future portage releases, no.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Jorge Almeida]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> 
> Uh, no. USE flags do not control whether packages get installed. They
> control whether something which has **optional** support will use it.
Yes, I just think it would be more usefull for beginners to have a set
of defaults they could use as a suggestion, to be more or less adapted
to their real usage. Including something alien to most may convey a
message like " don't touch this or else start from zero".
> So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the emboss
> support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if you're
> installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if you're not
I probably won't, unless I'm a biologist, and a molecular one.
OTH, I'll probably want tetex, which is not in the default list.
> 
> 
Regards,

Jorge Almeida
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:03:44 +0100 (WEST) Jorge Almeida
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
| On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the emboss
| > support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if you're
| > installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if you're not
|
| I probably won't, unless I'm a biologist, and a molecular one.

If you're not a molecular biologist you probably won't be installing
packages which have optional support for a molecular biology library...

| OTH, I'll probably want tetex, which is not in the default list.

*shrug* then add it. Enabling tetex by default wouldn't be a good idea,
it's one of the biggest downloads in the tree.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Alexander Skwar]

Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:

> So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the emboss
> support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if you're
> installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if you're not
> installing science apps you'll never see it anyway.

No, that doesn't make sense. A simple question: Why is 3dfx
not in the default set of USE flags? If you install a graphics
software, like xorg, 3dfx users probably want it. And if you're
not a 3dfx user, it won't do harm.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:54:58 +0200 Alexander Skwar
<listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
| Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
| > So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the emboss
| > support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if you're
| > installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if you're not
| > installing science apps you'll never see it anyway.
| 
| No, that doesn't make sense. A simple question: Why is 3dfx
| not in the default set of USE flags? If you install a graphics
| software, like xorg, 3dfx users probably want it. And if you're
| not a 3dfx user, it won't do harm.

Bloat.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Alexander Skwar]

Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:54:58 +0200 Alexander Skwar
> <listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
> | Ciaran McCreesh schrieb:
> | > So, for things with optional emboss support, by default the emboss
> | > support will be enabled. Which makes sense, because if you're
> | > installing science apps, you'll probably want it, and if you're not
> | > installing science apps you'll never see it anyway.
> | 
> | No, that doesn't make sense. A simple question: Why is 3dfx
> | not in the default set of USE flags? If you install a graphics
> | software, like xorg, 3dfx users probably want it. And if you're
> | not a 3dfx user, it won't do harm.
> 
> Bloat.

Yep. Same as enabling the optional emboss support. If
you're arguing, that some settings lead to bloated
systems, then /NO/ USE flag at all should be enabled. If
you're arguing, that "most sensible behaviour is to enable
it by default", then /EVERY/ USE flag should be enabled
by default.

Alexander Skwar
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:31:45 +0200 Alexander Skwar
<listen@alexander.skwar.name> wrote:
| Yep. Same as enabling the optional emboss support. If
| you're arguing, that some settings lead to bloated
| systems, then /NO/ USE flag at all should be enabled. If
| you're arguing, that "most sensible behaviour is to enable
| it by default", then /EVERY/ USE flag should be enabled
| by default.

Not at all. It's a question of numbers. Of all of the people who use
applications which have emboss in IUSE, most will want it enabled. Of
all of the people who use applications which have, say, 3dfx enabled,
most will not want it.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Holly Bostick]

Alexander Skwar schreef:
> No, that doesn't make sense. A simple question: Why is 3dfx not in 
> the default set of USE flags? If you install a graphics software, 
> like xorg, 3dfx users probably want it. And if you're not a 3dfx 
> user, it won't do harm.

For something like 3dfx, this is not necessarily true. I've certainly
had packages (mplayer, kernel) fail because *hardware* support was
enabled for things I couldn't use (and even things I should be able to
use but can't for this package-- I generally have to compile mplayer
-mmx and -sse or it won't compile, even though my AMD CPU supports both
instruction sets).

In general, I've found both the kernel and individual packages to be
quite sensitive when compiling optional support for hardware that is not
present.

So in that example, it likely *can* do harm.

Optional *software* support is a different matter entirely.

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Walter Dnes]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 04:29:39PM +0100, Jorge Almeida wrote
> I would like to know how the current USE variables are set.
> I know that "emerge --info" displays a list of all of them, but it doesn't
> discriminate where they come from. I couldn't find clear documentation
> about it, but of course I may have missed something. 
> In the same line, I find /etc/make.profile/make.defaults _very strange_.
> "perl"? Sure. "fortran"? Well, who knows... But "emboss"?!

  Actually, "fortran" is a gcc flag that seems to have some other uses.
You *DO* need it.  "perl" is for enabling optional perl support in
various programs, which I try to do without.

> I'm writing "-*" at the beginning of the USE declaration in
> /etc/make.conf, but I can't avoid the feeling that this may be a Bad
> Thing.

  Actually, I do it too, and I've only been bitten twice.  Here's mine.
It fits my equipment and my mix of applications.  Your needs may be
different.

USE="-* 3dnow X a52 aac alsa bzip2 cdr dga dio divx4linux dri dvd dvdr dvdread encode exif ffmpeg flac fortran gb gif gtk2 imlib jpeg maildir mikmod mime mmap mmx mng mp3 mpeg ncurses nptl nptlonly nsplugin offensive ogg opengl plotutils png posix quicktime readline sdl sharedmem slang sockets sse theora threads tiff truetype vcd vorbis win32codecs wmf xpm xv zlib"

  Remember also /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc and
/etc/portage/package.use.  My package.use contains...

# begin ======================

app-misc/mc -X
app-office/openoffice-bin java
app-text/xpdf motif
media-gfx/gimp doc
media-libs/win32codecs real
media-video/mplayer custom-cflags i8x0 real sse2 3dnowext mmxext
net-misc/wget ssl
net-nntp/slrn uudeview
sys-libs/glibc userlocales
www-client/links svga

x11-base/xorg-x11 bitmap-fonts font-server truetype-fonts type1-fonts

# If it's going to be a rescue package, it damn well better work
# standalone when libraries get deleted.
sys-apps/busybox static

# end ========================

  The 2 times I've been bitten are...
  1) xpdf *MUST* have motif support enabled.  If not, the xpdf libraries
     get built, but not the executable... oops.
  2) wget without ssl retrieves "http://" URLs fine, but does *NOT*
     retrieve "https://" URLs

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will
eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure,
and has a lower TCO, than linux.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Collecting USE variables

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:06:26 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:

>   Actually, "fortran" is a gcc flag that seems to have some other uses.
> You *DO* need it.

What for? I have -fortran on several computers and have never suffered
for its lack.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

MS-DOS: if you believe in a flat Earth, this is the OS for you.

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