From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EAB315815E for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:22:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C0617E2A31; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gw1.antarean.org (gw1.antarean.org [194.145.200.214]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A7FE2A0F for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw1.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TVHks5KQfzyW8 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antarean.org Received: from gw1.antarean.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (gw1.antarean.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R28wmyGrIptC for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailstore1.adm.antarean.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw1.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TVHk927sNzyP4 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailstore1.adm.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TVHk84gLrz1H for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at antarean.org Received: from mailstore1.adm.antarean.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailstore1.adm.antarean.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wb8YpgFDzbJj for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from iris.localnet (iris.adm.antarean.org [10.55.16.47]) by mailstore1.adm.antarean.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4TVHk81F2rz17 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 11:21:20 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=antarean.org; s=default; t=1707304880; bh=7YVvfjUPNZKdJtZU0dLZfyFfWXX6cHluI7IavHoZoxo=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=Jyu9crCqn2+eiZNxCT2JxP/HItiagB3CaDkZYuYpnEVrafqyBpqruJ6+mqBxFMu3f DX0c8sqvFbAmpW+g8H/ZhI1r4SUXb+nWasHi7JdLhbwxY4l/gNQ7x8VIJYZiS9zPpp rO5Q3T2NQLWu8wvrYJob78pSFuzQbYpcqL0/7Nj0= From: "J. Roeleveld" To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Suggestions for backup scheme? Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2024 12:21:20 +0100 Message-ID: <3287827.aeNJFYEL58@iris> In-Reply-To: References: <12384456.O9o76ZdvQC@iris> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Archives-Salt: 65e68c5c-4d4e-4637-9c96-ae61ee1fddd0 X-Archives-Hash: 87334f91e490a5f5df29c8f720e2c87c On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 6:22:34 PM CET Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2024-02-06, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 4:38:11 PM CET Grant Edwards wrote: > >> I presume that boot/root on ext4 and home on ZFS would not require an > >> initrd? > > > > Yes, that wouldn't require an initrd. But why would you limit this? > > Because I really, really dislike having to use an initrd. That's > probably just an irrational 30 year old prejudice, but over the > decades I've found live to be far simpler and more pleasant without > initrds. Maybe things have improved over the years, but way back when > I did use distros that required initrds, they seem to be a constant, > nagging source of headaches. In the past, initrd's were a nightmare. Even the current tools (dracut, genkernel) are a pain and force the user to do it their way. The only initramfs generator I use is the "bliss-initramfs" one and that is because it actually works and doesn't get in the way. And I don't build a new kernel for the server. For my desktops and laptops, I embed the initramfs into the kernel using a very simple set of files (script with the commands and a config detailing which files to include) the total size of both files is about 8K and was mostly grabbed from a howto page about 10 years ago and has stayed unchanged since then. (I added a little script to update the config when library versions change, but that is it) > > ZFS works best when given the FULL drive. > > Where do you put swap? My swap is a ZFS volume. I find using the recommended method of configuring it is safe and I have not seen any kind of lockup due to swap. Did have some due to a bug in the HBA-driver when some deranged dev decided to change sensible defaults though. But it would freeze before even getting to enabling swap. > > For my server, I use "bliss-initramfs" to generate the initramfs and > > have not had any issues with this since I started using ZFS. > > > > Especially the ease of generating snapshots also make it really easy > > to roll back an update if anything went wrong. If your > > root-partition isn't on ZFS, you can't easily roll back. > > True. However, I've never adopted the practice of backing up my root > fs (except for a few specific directories like /etc), and haven't ever > really run into situations where I wished I had. It's all stuff that > can easily be reinstalled. I did start backup up the full system as restoring from backup (especially rolling back a snapshot, but same is true when grabbing the backup from tape) is a lot faster than reinstalling all the software and making sure the config (which these days isn't just in /etc anymore) is still the same. -- Joost