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From: "J. Roeleveld" <joost@antarean.org>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] akonadi ... don't you just love it?
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:38:11 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3173296.k7lA9hJYeK@andromeda> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <53EA691B.2040306@gmail.com>

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 09:20:59 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 12/08/2014 21:00, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On 12 August 2014 20:21:03 CEST, Volker Armin Hemmann 
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> Am 12.08.2014 um 16:10 schrieb J. Roeleveld:
> >>> On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 03:38:15 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >>>> On 12/08/2014 15:28, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>>>> On 12 August 2014 14:06:07 CEST, Alan McKinnon
> >> 
> >> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>
> >> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12/08/2014 11:10, Mick wrote:
> >>>>>>> I recall the devs explicitly stating early enough in the KDE4
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> development that
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> sqlite is not man enough for the job and advising everyone to
> >> 
> >> move
> >> 
> >>>>>> over to
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> mysql.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Someone was looking at postgresql as an alternative to mysql, but
> >> 
> >> I'm
> >> 
> >>>>>> not sure
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> that this would bring any benefit.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> pg is a fine database, but for this use will always be a 2nd class
> >>>>>> citizen. Most users will already have mysql installed, or will be
> >>>>>> willing to install it.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> The number of folks with pg and without mysql will probably be
> >> 
> >> small
> >> 
> >>>>> Not necessarily.
> >>>>> People who care about databases actually supporting SQL properly
> >> 
> >> and
> >> 
> >>>>> performing properly will prefer PostgreSQL.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I don't like to be forced to run a MySQL instance as well. It's
> >> 
> >> often the
> >> 
> >>>>> laziness of developers that causes the difficulty of supporting a
> >>>>> different database when they started with MySQL. If you start with
> >> 
> >> a
> >> 
> >>>>> different one, like PostgrSQL, supporting different database
> >> 
> >> engines is
> >> 
> >>>>> very simple.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I don't think you read what I said.
> >>> 
> >>> Sorry, didn't read the below in what you put.
> >>> 
> >>>> I didn't say postgresql shouldn't be supported, I said it would
> >> 
> >> always
> >> 
> >>>> end up being a second class citizen as the number of people who'd be
> >>>> happy with mysql will vastly outnumber the number of people who
> >> 
> >> highly
> >> 
> >>>> desire postgresql. So, logically, a postgresql driver in this case
> >> 
> >> will
> >> 
> >>>> probably just bitrot away. Whihc nicely explains the likely reason
> >> 
> >> why
> >> 
> >>>> that driver is not there.
> >>> 
> >>> It wouldn't bitrot away as there would be people willing to keep it
> >> 
> >> working,
> >> 
> >>> provided it wouldn't require a MySQL -> SQL translator to be kept
> >> 
> >> up-to-date.
> >> 
> >>>> People like yourself who care about databases are very much in the
> >>>> minority of users, even on Linux. Most users across the boards just
> >>>> don't give a shit. Them's the breaks.
> >>> 
> >>> Users never care about what they install. I just wish the majority of
> >>> 
> >>> developers would actually be willing to follow some simple guidelines
> >> 
> >> to make
> >> 
> >>> it actually possible to others to write and maintain the drivers to
> >> 
> >> connect to
> >> 
> >>> different databases.
> >>> 
> >>> Several attempts have been made by people to add support for
> >> 
> >> different
> >> 
> >>> databases to various projects. I've tried to do it myself on
> >> 
> >> occasion, but
> >> 
> >>> even when patches are accepted by upstream, they get broken by
> >> 
> >> upstream at a
> >> 
> >>> future release again because of the bad design that is often employed
> >> 
> >> by lazy
> >> 
> >>> developers.
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> Joost
> >> 
> >> wasn't qtsql once supposed to that?
> > 
> > If a framework like qtsql is used, swapping the database is easy.
> > 
> > Most developers seem to prefer to reinvent the wheel and often come up
> > with something that vaguely resembles a circle and is held together with
> > a mixture of glue and duck tape.
> I blame php and others of it's ilk.

My point exactly.

> The good thing about php is that everyone and their dog can knock out
> running code.
> The bad thing about php is that they do.

Not PHP's fault, lazy developers' fault.

> Substitute mysql and bash if you will and tweak the content to suit - it
> all works out the same.
>
> Sensible languages (like, oh I dunno - python maybe?) have this trick
> about them - you have to work hard to write awful code. You also have to
> work hard to write awesome code, but if you just follow the book you
> usually end up with acceptable code.

I agree, to a fashion. I've seen some really bad examples of Python code 
though.

> I will refrain from commenting on perl.

I'm surprised noone came up with a Desktop Environment (like KDE and Gnome) 
written as a perl one-liner yet. ;)

--
Joost


  reply	other threads:[~2014-08-13  6:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 29+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-08-09 20:00 [gentoo-user] akonadi ... don't you just love it? Mick
2014-08-10  9:34 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-08-12  7:05   ` Mick
2014-08-11 18:01 ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2014-08-11 21:45   ` Mick
2014-08-12  5:36     ` J. Roeleveld
2014-08-12  6:42       ` Alan McKinnon
2014-08-12  9:10         ` Mick
2014-08-12 12:06           ` Alan McKinnon
2014-08-12 13:28             ` J. Roeleveld
2014-08-12 13:38               ` Alan McKinnon
2014-08-12 14:10                 ` J. Roeleveld
2014-08-12 18:21                   ` Volker Armin Hemmann
2014-08-12 19:00                     ` J. Roeleveld
2014-08-12 19:20                       ` Alan McKinnon
2014-08-13  6:38                         ` J. Roeleveld [this message]
2014-08-13  7:10                           ` Alan McKinnon
2014-08-13 12:18                             ` Alec Ten Harmsel
2014-08-13 12:26                               ` Alan McKinnon
2014-08-11 19:05 ` [gentoo-user] " Mick
2014-08-11 22:21   ` Neil Bothwick
2014-08-12  0:38     ` Rich Freeman
2014-08-12  7:31       ` Neil Bothwick
2014-08-12  8:08         ` Peter Humphrey
2014-08-12 14:38         ` Daniel Frey
2014-08-12 17:54           ` Rich Freeman
2014-08-12  1:00     ` Dale
2014-08-12  7:57       ` Walter Dnes
2014-08-12  8:19         ` Alan McKinnon

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