[gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Amar Cosic]

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Actually hell.. Dont know what to do. I am tryng to setup Gentoo on this
server all the day and whatever I try there is no luck. I used genkernel
andd Lilo and whenever I try to boot from HD I got:

Block device /dev/sda3 is not valid root device...
Could not find the root block device in.


Anyone knows at all any solution to this ? :/

Thanks

-- 
Amar Ćosić
amar.cosic@gmail.com
amar@amar.co.ba
+38761240095
http://www.amar.co.ba

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Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 10 April 2008, Amar Cosic wrote:
> Actually hell.. Dont know what to do. I am tryng to setup Gentoo on
> this server all the day and whatever I try there is no luck. I used
> genkernel andd Lilo and whenever I try to boot from HD I got:
>
> Block device /dev/sda3 is not valid root device...
> Could not find the root block device in.

You have not compiled all the needed drivers into the kernel. You'll 
need drivers for your chipset, the scsi stuff and libata.

Try google, this has been asked and answered hundreds of times this year 
alone.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Amar Cosic]

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Alan

I tried everything, tor on all scsi stuff,almost all ata/sata stuff, but
still no luck :/ .Do you know exactly where to look for libata in kernel
menu ?

Thanks

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thursday 10 April 2008, Amar Cosic wrote:
> > Actually hell.. Dont know what to do. I am tryng to setup Gentoo on
> > this server all the day and whatever I try there is no luck. I used
> > genkernel andd Lilo and whenever I try to boot from HD I got:
> >
> > Block device /dev/sda3 is not valid root device...
> > Could not find the root block device in.
>
> You have not compiled all the needed drivers into the kernel. You'll
> need drivers for your chipset, the scsi stuff and libata.
>
> Try google, this has been asked and answered hundreds of times this year
> alone.
>
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
> --
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
Amar Ćosić
amar.cosic@gmail.com
amar@amar.co.ba
+38761240095
http://www.amar.co.ba

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Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 10 April 2008, Amar Cosic wrote:
> Alan
>
> I tried everything, tor on all scsi stuff,almost all ata/sata stuff,
> but still no luck :/ .Do you know exactly where to look for libata in
> kernel menu ?

What disk hardware do you have?


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Amar Cosic]

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>
>
> What disk hardware do you have?
>
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
> --
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

http://pastebin.ca/979686

http://pastebin.ca/979691

DOnt know actualy how to get full disk info. Hope this can help

Thanks

-- 
Amar Ćosić
amar.cosic@gmail.com
amar@amar.co.ba
+38761240095
http://www.amar.co.ba

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[gentoo-user] %LDAP sudoers

[Mario Ignacio Rodríguez Cortés]

Hi list:

I have a problem at the moment that i try to execute a command as a sudo
user, quikly, I have two machines, the first is my LDAP server and the
second is my client on LDAP, the authentication whit any user that is in
the LDAP data base is succesful, but when i execute the sudo command i
get the following lines in the /var/log/messages:

nss_ldap: reconnecting to LDAP server (sleeping 1 seconds)...
nss_ldap: reconnecting to LDAP server (sleeping 2 seconds)...
nss_ldap: reconnecting to LDAP server (sleeping 4 seconds)...
nss_ldap: reconnecting to LDAP server (sleeping 8 seconds)...
nss_ldap: could not search LDAP server - Server is unavailable
uid 1050 does not exist in the passwd file! ; TTY=pts/9 ; PWD=unknown ;
USER=root ; COMMAND=vim
Unable to locate mail
Cannot open mail:25


I follow the guide sudo README.LDAP
(http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/readme_ldap.html) and i made all the steps in
this guide but the messages are still displayed, the guide say in
certain point that the sudoers file can be disabled putting in
the /etc/sudoers the line "Defaults ignore_local_sudoers", I did this
too but the same messages.

I don't understand why continues seek the user in the /etc/passwd file,
any idea?

Thanks to all.
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Stroller]

On 10 Apr 2008, at 16:29, Mario Ignacio Rodríguez Cortés wrote:
> ...
> I have a problem at the moment that i try to execute a command as a  
> sudo
> user, quikly, I have two machines, the first is my LDAP server and the
> second is my client on LDAP ...

Please don't hijack threads like this:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_hijacking
   http://groups.google.com/group/linux.gentoo.user/msg/ 
8a540add45e7e9b8?

   "It is irritating for people using thread-aware e-mail clients...
   In case you didn't know, it happens when you use "reply" for sending
   a new question instead of composing a "new" message."

Stroller.
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Stroller]

On 10 Apr 2008, at 15:46, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thursday 10 April 2008, Amar Cosic wrote:
>> ... whenever I try to boot from HD I got:
>>
>> Block device /dev/sda3 is not valid root device...
>> Could not find the root block device in.
>
> You have not compiled all the needed drivers into the kernel. You'll
> need drivers for your chipset, the scsi stuff and libata.

And for the filesystem of the root fs.

Stroller.
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Amar Cosic]

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This is hell! I have all SATA stuff, all SCSI stuff ,almost all ATA stuf,
all Intel stuff, all Linux FS stuff and still same errorr for 24 hours :((




On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:43 AM, Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> On 10 Apr 2008, at 15:46, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday 10 April 2008, Amar Cosic wrote:
> >
> > > ... whenever I try to boot from HD I got:
> > >
> > > Block device /dev/sda3 is not valid root device...
> > > Could not find the root block device in.
> > >
> >
> > You have not compiled all the needed drivers into the kernel. You'll
> > need drivers for your chipset, the scsi stuff and libata.
> >
>
> And for the filesystem of the root fs.
>
> Stroller.
>
> --
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
Amar Ćosić
amar.cosic@gmail.com
amar@amar.co.ba
+38761240095
http://www.amar.co.ba

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Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Iain Buchanan]

On Fri, 2008-04-11 at 09:07 +0200, Amar Cosic wrote:
> This is hell! I have all SATA stuff, all SCSI stuff ,almost all ATA
> stuf, all Intel stuff, all Linux FS stuff and still same errorr for 24
> hours :((

with my Poweredge 2900, the live cd shows a different device to the
kernel, eg livecd shows my disks as sda, but the kernel shows the as
hda, or vice versa.  You might want to try all (h|s)da3 combinations...

HTH,
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

FIVE DAYS IS NOT TOO LONG TO WAIT FOR A GUN

	Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 1F20

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday 10 April 2008 15:04:56 Amar Cosic wrote:

> Block device /dev/sda3 is not valid root device...
> Could not find the root block device in.

Is AHCI set up correctly in your BIOS? Try toggling it and see if that 
helps.

-- 
Rgds
Peter
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Hal Martin]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Thursday 10 April 2008 15:04:56 Amar Cosic wrote:
>
>   
>> Block device /dev/sda3 is not valid root device...
>> Could not find the root block device in.
>>     
>
> Is AHCI set up correctly in your BIOS? Try toggling it and see if that 
> helps.
>
>   
On these lines, what CPU does this thing use? AFAIK Lilo has some issues
with newer (specifically AMD64 and 64-bit systems) hardware. I'm aware
that this server is equipped with an Intel CPU, but could it be that
Lilo simply doesn't support your hardware?

Unfortunately, it is proving harder than I expected to find a list of
Lilo supported hardware.

-Hal
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Amar Cosic]

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Well I just make a "progres" , I got kernel panic :). Then I could see
available devices listed by kernel and it says drives are hdc1-3 :/. On live
cd I see sda1-3. Now Lilo returns erorrs when trying to install it becouse
on Live Cd there is no hdc. Any idea how to solve this and install Lilo to
look at root=/dev/hdc3 ?

Thanks


On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Hal Martin <hal.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On these lines, what CPU does this thing use? AFAIK Lilo has some issues
> with newer (specifically AMD64 and 64-bit systems) hardware. I'm aware
> that this server is equipped with an Intel CPU, but could it be that
> Lilo simply doesn't support your hardware?
>
> Unfortunately, it is proving harder than I expected to find a list of
> Lilo supported hardware.
>
> -Hal
> --
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
Amar Ćosić
amar.cosic@gmail.com
amar@amar.co.ba
+38761240095
http://www.amar.co.ba

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Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[Amar Cosic]

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Done!

Switched back to genkernel but now with hdc3 as root and it booted Ok. Thank
God ,and offcourse you guys for trying to help :)

Amar



2008/4/11 Amar Cosic <amar.cosic@gmail.com>:

>
> Well I just make a "progres" , I got kernel panic :). Then I could see
> available devices listed by kernel and it says drives are hdc1-3 :/. On live
> cd I see sda1-3. Now Lilo returns erorrs when trying to install it becouse
> on Live Cd there is no hdc. Any idea how to solve this and install Lilo to
> look at root=/dev/hdc3 ?
>
>
>
> amar.cosic@gmail.com
> amar@amar.co.ba
> +38761240095
> http://www.amar.co.ba
>



-- 
Amar Ćosić
amar.cosic@gmail.com
amar@amar.co.ba
+38761240095
http://www.amar.co.ba

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Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[dirk.heinrichs.ext]

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Am Freitag, den 11.04.2008, 13:13 +0200 schrieb ext Amar Cosic:

> Well I just make a "progres" , I got kernel panic :). Then I could see
> available devices listed by kernel and it says drives are hdc1-3 :/.
> On live cd I see sda1-3. Now Lilo returns erorrs when trying to
> install it becouse on Live Cd there is no hdc. Any idea how to solve
> this and install Lilo to look at root=/dev/hdc3 ?

When the kernel says your disk is hd*, then it is a PATA disk. When it
says it's sd*, it could be pretty much everything: PATA (with new libata
driver), SATA, SCSI, USB,...

So I would guess that the LiveCD uses the new libata, while you're using
the old driver. Make sure you compile in the needed PATA drivers for
your chipset (maybe CONFIG_SATA_AHCI works).

What does lspci report?

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net

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Re: [gentoo-user] Dell PowerEdge 750 problem

[dirk.heinrichs.ext]

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Am Freitag, den 11.04.2008, 17:12 +0930 schrieb ext Iain Buchanan:
> On Fri, 2008-04-11 at 09:07 +0200, Amar Cosic wrote:
> > This is hell! I have all SATA stuff, all SCSI stuff ,almost all ATA
> > stuf, all Intel stuff, all Linux FS stuff and still same errorr for 24
> > hours :((
> 
> with my Poweredge 2900, the live cd shows a different device to the
> kernel, eg livecd shows my disks as sda, but the kernel shows the as
> hda, or vice versa.  You might want to try all (h|s)da3 combinations...

Because the LiveCD uses the new driver for PATA disks, which is makes
them look like SCSI disks, as is true for SATA.

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net

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[gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Stroller]

On 10 Jun 2008, at 21:55, Thomas Pedersen wrote:
> Was thinking of buying the Western Digital' My Book® Home Edition™,
> specially because of the eSATA connection...
> I heard they have an internal USB-hub for making the capacity gauge  
> working.



Please don't hijack threads like this.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_hijacking
   http://groups.google.com/group/linux.gentoo.user/msg/ 
8a540add45e7e9b8?

   "It is irritating for people using thread-aware e-mail clients...
   In case you didn't know, it happens when you use "reply" for sending
   a new question instead of composing a "new" message."

Stroller.--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Hal Martin]

Stroller wrote:
> On 10 Jun 2008, at 21:55, Thomas Pedersen wrote:
>> Was thinking of buying the Western Digital' My Book® Home Edition™,
>> specially because of the eSATA connection...
>> I heard they have an internal USB-hub for making the capacity gauge 
>> working.
>
I'm sorry, but I fail to see why the above example mentioned qualifies 
as Thread Hijacking. He started a new thread to pose his question, and, 
if anything, was only being indirect in asking it.
>
>
> Please don't hijack threads like this.
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_hijacking
>   http://groups.google.com/group/linux.gentoo.user/msg/8a540add45e7e9b8?
>
>   "It is irritating for people using thread-aware e-mail clients...
>   In case you didn't know, it happens when you use "reply" for sending
>   a new question instead of composing a "new" message."
He *did* compose a new message, there is no Re: in the header and no 
other content in the message.
>
> Stroller.--gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
-Hal
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[felix]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 05:54:35PM +0100, Stroller wrote:

> Please don't hijack threads like this.

Even if that were an example of thread hijacking, are you perfect?
Have you never made a mistake?

If someone does it over and over, then complain.  Otherwise buy
yourself a glass house.

-- 
            ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
     Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:

[snip]

> I'm sorry, but I fail to see why the above example mentioned
> qualifies as Thread Hijacking. He started a new thread to pose his
> question, and, if anything, was only being indirect in asking it.

No, he did not start a new thread. Other wise why does his mail have 
this header;

In-Reply-To: 
<49bf44f10806101229y255520fbna1a6cfd59ae56008@mail.gmail.com>

[snip]

> He *did* compose a new message, there is no Re: in the header and no
> other content in the message.

That's not how you determine if a thread has been hijacked. The Re: is 
simply a subject line and can be edited. Deleting all content from a 
previous post is also not it, as thread-aware mail clients use extended 
headers to do it, specifically In-Reply-To and References


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Thomas Pedersen]

Two points:

1) Yeah you're right about not living in a glass house, and make a big 
deal out of nothing ;)

2) Thanks for letting us know about the differences about clicking reply 
and compose new ... I'm actually sure not all of us was aware about this 
difference

Just a comment...

Thomas
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Justin]

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Thomas Pedersen schrieb:
> Two points:
>
> 1) Yeah you're right about not living in a glass house, and make a big 
> deal out of nothing ;)
>
> 2) Thanks for letting us know about the differences about clicking 
> reply and compose new ... I'm actually sure not all of us was aware 
> about this difference
>
> Just a comment...
>
> Thomas
Yeah thats the right point of view!!



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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Hal Martin]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>   
>> I'm sorry, but I fail to see why the above example mentioned
>> qualifies as Thread Hijacking. He started a new thread to pose his
>> question, and, if anything, was only being indirect in asking it.
>>     
>
> No, he did not start a new thread. Other wise why does his mail have 
> this header;
>
> In-Reply-To: 
> <49bf44f10806101229y255520fbna1a6cfd59ae56008@mail.gmail.com>
>
> [snip]
>   
Quite right, my mistake for looking into it further.
>   
>> He *did* compose a new message, there is no Re: in the header and no
>> other content in the message.
>>     
>
> That's not how you determine if a thread has been hijacked. The Re: is 
> simply a subject line and can be edited. Deleting all content from a 
> previous post is also not it, as thread-aware mail clients use extended 
> headers to do it, specifically In-Reply-To and References
>
>   
Using Thunderbird it appeared to be a new thread, the same applies to 
the GMail web interface. However, on closer inspection of the message 
header, it does appear to be a case of thread hijacking. My mistake, and 
I would retract my previous comments regarding the matter. I instead 
wish to resubmit my response on thread hijacking:

Thread Hijacking is bad, don't do it.

-Hal

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[deface]

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 761 bytes --]




On Jun 11, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Stroller wrote:

> On 10 Jun 2008, at 21:55, Thomas Pedersen wrote:
>> Was thinking of buying the Western Digital' My Book® Home Edition™,
>> specially because of the eSATA connection...
>> I heard they have an internal USB-hub for making the capacity gauge  
>> working.
>
>
>
> Please don't hijack threads like this.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_hijacking
> http://groups.google.com/group/linux.gentoo.user/msg/8a540add45e7e9b8?
>
> "It is irritating for people using thread-aware e-mail clients...
> In case you didn't know, it happens when you use "reply" for sending
> a new question instead of composing a "new" message."
>
> Stroller.--
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>

Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:42:32 -0700, felix@crowfix.com wrote:

> > Please don't hijack threads like this.  
> 
> Even if that were an example of thread hijacking, are you perfect?
> Have you never made a mistake?

What is the relevance of that. We all make mistakes, some learn fro them
and help others learn too.

> If someone does it over and over, then complain.  Otherwise buy
> yourself a glass house.

On the other hard, a polite request at the outset saves the person the
potential embarrassment of making the mistake several times over. Most
thread hijacking is unintentional, so why not inform someone of the
correct approach at the first opportunity?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"getting performance from Windows is like getting blood from a stone -
after banging my head against the stone several times I got some blood"
    Author of Lightwave 3D

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:
> Using Thunderbird it appeared to be a new thread, the same applies to
> the GMail web interface.

Interesting. I wonder what mechanism those clients use to determine 
threads then (I use neither myself)?


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Mittwoch, 11. Juni 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:
> > Using Thunderbird it appeared to be a new thread, the same applies to
> > the GMail web interface.
>
> Interesting. I wonder what mechanism those clients use to determine
> threads then (I use neither myself)?

possibly the (wrong) subject method (which is easily broken).
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Aaron Clark]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:
>> Using Thunderbird it appeared to be a new thread, the same applies to
>> the GMail web interface.
> 
> Interesting. I wonder what mechanism those clients use to determine 
> threads then (I use neither myself)?
> 

Actually, in threaded mode on my work box (Fedora 7, Thunderbird 
2.0.0.14 (20080501)), it didn't appear in a new thread but showed up as 
a reply to another completely unrelated thread as the initial poster said.

Aaron
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Chris Walters]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hal Martin wrote:
| Alan McKinnon wrote:
|> On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:
[snip]
|> No, he did not start a new thread. Other wise why does his mail have
|> this header;
|>
|> In-Reply-To:
|> <49bf44f10806101229y255520fbna1a6cfd59ae56008@mail.gmail.com>
[snip]
| Quite right, my mistake for looking into it further.
|>
[snip]
|> That's not how you determine if a thread has been hijacked. The Re: is
|> simply a subject line and can be edited. Deleting all content from a
|> previous post is also not it, as thread-aware mail clients use
|> extended headers to do it, specifically In-Reply-To and References
|>
|>
| Using Thunderbird it appeared to be a new thread, the same applies to
| the GMail web interface. However, on closer inspection of the message
| header, it does appear to be a case of thread hijacking. My mistake, and
| I would retract my previous comments regarding the matter. I instead
| wish to resubmit my response on thread hijacking:
|
| Thread Hijacking is bad, don't do it.
|
| -Hal

Just a small point here.  Mozilla Thunderbird has a threaded view option that
allows you to view entire threads, without regard to the subject line, so it is
thread aware - you just have to set the right options.  Viewing it that way, it
is clear to see that the message in question, was a case of thread hijacking.
Is it the crime of the century?  No.  Is it something people want to see on a
mailing list like this?  No.

Everyone makes mistakes, and it is can be good to point them out, though I do
think this thread is a bit of overkill - a private message to the person who
made the mistake is usually enough.

Just my $0.020000000000001

Regards,
Chris
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[William Kenworthy]

at one time I had a couple of people have a go at me over thread
hi-jacking.  Turned out to be a bug in THEIR version of KMail.  I did
enjoy sticking the boot in as one of them was most ungracious about it.

Moral: make sure you are right then be nice and polite - or accept the
VERY PUBLIC consequences of being a well known ... :)

BillK

On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 21:17 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:
> > Using Thunderbird it appeared to be a new thread, the same applies to
> > the GMail web interface.
> 
> Interesting. I wonder what mechanism those clients use to determine 
> threads then (I use neither myself)?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alan McKinnon
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
> 
-- 
William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>
Home in Perth!
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[William Kenworthy]

Alan, on rereading this it might look like I am having a poke at you but
this is not the case - its just the message I replied to to enter the
thread.

Being publicly sorry for stuffing up :)
BillK


On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 10:52 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote:
> at one time I had a couple of people have a go at me over thread
> hi-jacking.  Turned out to be a bug in THEIR version of KMail.  I did
> enjoy sticking the boot in as one of them was most ungracious about it.
> 
> Moral: make sure you are right then be nice and polite - or accept the
> VERY PUBLIC consequences of being a well known ... :)
> 
> BillK
> 
> On Wed, 2008-06-11 at 21:17 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Hal Martin wrote:
> > > Using Thunderbird it appeared to be a new thread, the same applies to
> > > the GMail web interface.
> > 
> > Interesting. I wonder what mechanism those clients use to determine 
> > threads then (I use neither myself)?
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Alan McKinnon
> > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
> > 
> -- 
> William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>
> Home in Perth!
-- 
William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>
Home in Perth!
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Donnerstag, 12. Juni 2008, William Kenworthy wrote:
> at one time I had a couple of people have a go at me over thread
> hi-jacking.  Turned out to be a bug in THEIR version of KMail.  I did
> enjoy sticking the boot in as one of them was most ungracious about it.
>
> Moral: make sure you are right then be nice and polite - or accept the
> VERY PUBLIC consequences of being a well known ... :)

so when will you stop top posting?
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[William Kenworthy]

too old to stop now ... been at it since the 90's when I first started
using email ...

:)

BillK
On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 05:25 +0200, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote:

> so when will you stop top posting?

too old to stop now ... been at it since the 90's when I first started
using email ...

:)

BillK

* Just so everyone is covered 

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Donnerstag, 12. Juni 2008, William Kenworthy wrote:
> too old to stop now ... been at it since the 90's when I first started
> using email ...

I am sure even back then people told you to stop it. Or did you only mail 
AOlusers ;P
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[PaulNM]

Chris Walters wrote:

> 
> Everyone makes mistakes, and it is can be good to point them out, though 
> I do
> think this thread is a bit of overkill - a private message to the person 
> who
> made the mistake is usually enough.
> 
I agree the thread is overkill, the first message was not.
Stroller's message was polite and included links to educate people.  I 
don't think a private message is the way to go in these cases because:

1: Most people learn about proper threading from these kind of messages. 
Few ever see full headers or have even heard of "In-Reply-To:".

2: Private-only messages can actually make the situation worse, as 
anyone looking over archives sees repeated instances of a "bad habit" 
from different people, but no feedback that it's frowned upon.

> Just my $0.020000000000001

                    ^
                   / \
                    |
Pentium fdiv bug?  |

> 
> Regards,
> Chris


PaulNM
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Stroller]

On 12 Jun 2008, at 02:41, Chris Walters wrote:
> ...
> Everyone makes mistakes, and it is can be good to point them out,  
> though I do
> think this thread is a bit of overkill - a private message to the  
> person who
> made the mistake is usually enough.

The problem with pointing it out privately is that that doesn't  
educate anyone else - thus it's more work to point it out privately  
to the next person, and the next, and one has to continue suffering  
hijacked threads in the meantime.

I think this thread appears "overkill" because I used ALL-CAPS in the  
subject, which has propagated to the replies. I won't do that again  
in the future, and apologise if this has led some of you to believe I  
was having a go at the original hjacker. I was perhaps terse in my  
request, but did not intend to be rude.

Stroller.

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Thomas Pedersen]

Stroller skrev:
>
> On 12 Jun 2008, at 02:41, Chris Walters wrote:
>> ...
>> Everyone makes mistakes, and it is can be good to point them out, 
>> though I do
>> think this thread is a bit of overkill - a private message to the 
>> person who
>> made the mistake is usually enough.
>
> The problem with pointing it out privately is that that doesn't 
> educate anyone else - thus it's more work to point it out privately to 
> the next person, and the next, and one has to continue suffering 
> hijacked threads in the meantime.
>
> I think this thread appears "overkill" because I used ALL-CAPS in the 
> subject, which has propagated to the replies. I won't do that again in 
> the future, and apologise if this has led some of you to believe I was 
> having a go at the original hjacker. I was perhaps terse in my 
> request, but did not intend to be rude.
>
> Stroller.
>
To be honest I never had a look at if I was the orignal hjacker or not 
... think I was, or at least have done it in the past
But anyways, never thought anyone has a go on me, just glad I know a bit 
more about how to compose new messages, to make everyone happy :-)

(Just to take this further; you good argue that the mail clients is 
using a wrong method of detecting these threads, cause it depends on the 
users' habits. I guess most of us choose the reply-button, cause it' 
easier than having to look-up the email address. But yeah things are 
like they are, and I'll use the compose button from now on, so everyone 
is happy :), hope others is following my lead...)

Thomas
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Stroller]

On 12 Jun 2008, at 18:07, Thomas Pedersen wrote:
> ...
> (Just to take this further; you good argue that the mail clients is  
> using a wrong method of detecting these threads, cause it depends  
> on the users' habits.

No, I'd disagree with this.

If the topic starts off as "ALSA Mixer problems" and then the  
discussion branches off to "Volume control applets for the system  
tray" then the messages should still be threaded correctly. This is  
impossible without threading on the "In-Reply-To:" and "References:"  
headers, and is indistinguishable from your habit. I say this not to  
denigrate your (former) habit, just to state the fact.

> I guess most of us choose the reply-button, cause it' easier than  
> having to look-up the email address.

My email client allows me to right-click on a recipient of an  
existing message and choose "new message", creating an empty message  
that does not hijack the thread. Alternatively I can make a new  
message and start typing "gentoo" and an autocomplete option of  
"gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org" will be provided.

Either of these methods is, IMO, less hassle than highlighting and  
deleting a lot of text.

Stroller.



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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 725 bytes --]

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:26:29 +0100, Stroller wrote:

> > I guess most of us choose the reply-button, cause it' easier than  
> > having to look-up the email address.  
> 
> My email client allows me to right-click on a recipient of an  
> existing message and choose "new message", creating an empty message  
> that does not hijack the thread.

Claws Mail also allows you to reply in the hijacky way, then select
"Remove references" from the Compose window's menu, turning it into a new
mail.

Actually, the name of the Reply button is a dead giveaway, using it for
anything other than a reply is clearly abuse of its function :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

DANGER! DANGER! Computer store ahead...hide wallet.

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Iain Buchanan]

On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 21:11 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:26:29 +0100, Stroller wrote:
> 
> > > I guess most of us choose the reply-button, cause it' easier than  
> > > having to look-up the email address.  
> > 
> > My email client allows me to right-click on a recipient of an  
> > existing message and choose "new message", creating an empty message  
> > that does not hijack the thread.
> 
> Claws Mail also allows you to reply in the hijacky way, then select
> "Remove references" from the Compose window's menu, turning it into a new
> mail.
> 
> Actually, the name of the Reply button is a dead giveaway, using it for
> anything other than a reply is clearly abuse of its function :)

And for a third way, I've done a comparison between reply-to, and new:

1. find email from list
2. click reply button
3. delete text
4. change subject
5. write email
6. send

or

1. find email from list
2. click email address in "to" field (new email to that recipient is
created)
3. write subject
4. write email
5. send

woohoo! one step shorter and closer to:

6. ???
7. Profit!
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

"Life is a garment we continuously alter, but which never seems to fit."
-- David McCord

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Chris Walters]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

PaulNM wrote:
| Chris Walters wrote:
|
|>
|> Everyone makes mistakes, and it is can be good to point them out,
|> though I do
|> think this thread is a bit of overkill - a private message to the
|> person who
|> made the mistake is usually enough.
|>
| I agree the thread is overkill, the first message was not.
| Stroller's message was polite and included links to educate people.  I
| don't think a private message is the way to go in these cases because:
|
| 1: Most people learn about proper threading from these kind of messages.
| Few ever see full headers or have even heard of "In-Reply-To:".
|
| 2: Private-only messages can actually make the situation worse, as
| anyone looking over archives sees repeated instances of a "bad habit"
| from different people, but no feedback that it's frowned upon.

Actually, I agree with you - the messages about breaches of the list etiquette
should be posted to the list.  I don't know what I was thinking when I composed
that reply...  I had actually been thinking that a mailing list FAQ sent to new
members and posted every so often, outlining the etiquette of the list would be
a good idea.  I do somewhat object to the idea that only certain mail clients
should be used on this list (not saying you did, but I have seen it), as the
hijacking of threads may be accomplished with *any* email client - and so can
private email, reply to list, and compose new message.

|> Just my $0.020000000000001
|
|                    ^
|                   / \
|                    |
| Pentium fdiv bug?  |

LOL!  You caught me.  Someone from another list shared something with me, and
in the spirit of GNU, I will share it here, and add to it...

We are Pentium of Borg.  You will be approximated.  Resistance may or may not
be futile, except on every other Tuesday when it is a definite maybe.

[snip]
|
| PaulNM

Since this is normally where my reply would go, I think I must say something.
What happens when a thread about how bad hijacking threads is gets hijacked...

Regards,
Chris
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gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Chris Walters]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Stroller wrote:
|
| On 12 Jun 2008, at 02:41, Chris Walters wrote:
[snip my mumbo jumbo]
|
| The problem with pointing it out privately is that that doesn't educate
| anyone else - thus it's more work to point it out privately to the next
| person, and the next, and one has to continue suffering hijacked threads
| in the meantime.
|
| I think this thread appears "overkill" because I used ALL-CAPS in the
| subject, which has propagated to the replies. I won't do that again in
| the future, and apologise if this has led some of you to believe I was
| having a go at the original hjacker. I was perhaps terse in my request,
| but did not intend to be rude.
|
| Stroller.

Actually, I agree with you - my original reply must have been the result of an
approximation.  I don't believe you were rude at all, or that you were having a
go at the original hijacker.  I apologize if I gave that impression.

As I said in my reply to PaulNM, I feel that this list should have an FAQ that
elucidates the etiquette of this mailing list, sent to new subscribers, and
posted periodically to the list.  It could cover a large number of things - not
just thread hijacking, and would help to prevent such things, in the future.

Regards,
Chris
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Dirk Heinrichs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 862 bytes --]

Am Freitag, 13. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Iain Buchanan:

> 1. find email from list
> 2. click email address in "to" field (new email to that recipient is
> created)
> 3. write subject
> 4. write email
> 5. send

or (in KMail, given that one uses its mailing list functions):

1a. hit <ctrl>-<shift>-n in the folder where the recipient list is stored, 
or
1b. right-click on the folder name, select "new message to mailing list"
2. write subject
3. write email
4. send

Who has a shorter way? ;-)

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: wwwkeys.pgp.net

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 221 bytes --]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:16:11 +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:

> Who has a shorter way? ;-)

In Claws Mail, hit New while in the ML folder :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Dirk Heinrichs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 603 bytes --]

Am Freitag, 13. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Neil Bothwick:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:16:11 +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> > Who has a shorter way? ;-)
>
> In Claws Mail, hit New while in the ML folder :)

That would be as short, but not shorter, right?

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: wwwkeys.pgp.net

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 294 bytes --]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:12:53 +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:

> > In Claws Mail, hit New while in the ML folder :)  
> 
> That would be as short, but not shorter, right?

It would if you wrote a shorter email :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Random access is the optimum of the mass storages.

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Freitag, 13. Juni 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:16:11 +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> > Who has a shorter way? ;-)
>
> In Claws Mail, hit New while in the ML folder :)

what if I am in a ml folder but don't want to send a mail to that ml? Removing 
adress again?
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 462 bytes --]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:25:18 +0200, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote:

> > In Claws Mail, hit New while in the ML folder :)  
> 
> what if I am in a ml folder but don't want to send a mail to that ml?
> Removing adress again?

Yes, unless you habitually write mails to other addresses while in
mailing list folders, in which case you would not use this feature.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh as his Mercedes smashed into the tunnel support.

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[luis jure]

El Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:40:34 +0100
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> escribió:


> In Claws Mail, hit New while in the ML folder :)

wow, years using claws mail, and i wasn't aware of this feature...
thanks. 

(i also discovered other features, like default account, spell
dictionary, etc)
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Conway S. Smith]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:40:34 +0100
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> In Claws Mail, hit New while in the ML folder :)
> 

In my version of Claws, this only works for News folders, not
for regular mail folders.  Am I missing something?  Are you using
Gmane or some such mail/news proxy?  Is this a new feature in 3.4?


Thanks,
Conway S. Smith
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[luis jure]

El Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:17:42 -0600
"Conway S. Smith" <beolach@xmission.com> escribió:

> In my version of Claws, this only works for News folders, not
> for regular mail folders.  Am I missing something?  Are you using
> Gmane or some such mail/news proxy?  Is this a new feature in 3.4?

i'm using (old?) 3.0.2. you just have to select any mail folder, and
click "properties". you can choose to trim the subject line, select
default To: field and primary account for new mails, as well as default
spelling dictionary, u.s.w.

i became aware of these features thanks to this thread. btw, are we
hijacking it? :-)
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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Iain Buchanan]

On Sun, 2008-06-15 at 00:58 -0300, luis jure wrote:
> El Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:17:42 -0600
> "Conway S. Smith" <beolach@xmission.com> escribió:
> 
> > In my version of Claws, this only works for News folders, not
> > for regular mail folders.  Am I missing something?  Are you using
> > Gmane or some such mail/news proxy?  Is this a new feature in 3.4?
> 
> i'm using (old?) 3.0.2. you just have to select any mail folder, and
> click "properties". you can choose to trim the subject line, select
> default To: field and primary account for new mails, as well as default
> spelling dictionary, u.s.w.

Let me get this striaght:  Claws will change your "from" account
depending on what mail folder you're in when you hit "new"?  If so, I
switching to claws!

> i became aware of these features thanks to this thread. btw, are we
> hijacking it? :-)

no, the discussion has progressed along related topics, as Stroller
pointed out before this is fine, and the threading should be continued
even if the subject changes.  Some people like to add (was: HIJACKING
THREADS) to the end of the subject if they change it this way.

R,
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

"Never face facts; if you do, you'll never get up in the morning."
-- Marlo Thomas

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Iain Buchanan]

On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 08:16 +0200, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Freitag, 13. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Iain Buchanan:
> 
> > 1. find email from list
> > 2. click email address in "to" field (new email to that recipient is
> > created)
> > 3. write subject
> > 4. write email
> > 5. send
> 
> or (in KMail, given that one uses its mailing list functions):
> 
> 1a. hit <ctrl>-<shift>-n in the folder where the recipient list is stored, 
> or
> 1b. right-click on the folder name, select "new message to mailing list"
> 2. write subject
> 3. write email
> 4. send
> 
> Who has a shorter way? ;-)

It wasn't a competition.  I was trying to show the OP that it _wasn't_
quicker to hijack the thread.  I was assuming the OP uses evolution - I
can't remember if that's right or not...

Who uses KDE nowadays anyway ;)
-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing...
		-- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:38:34 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote:

> Let me get this striaght:  Claws will change your "from" account
> depending on what mail folder you're in when you hit "new"?  If so, I
> switching to claws!

From: and To: if you want, signatures too.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Madness takes its toll. Exact change, please.

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Montag, 16. Juni 2008 schrieb ext Iain Buchanan:
> Who uses KDE nowadays anyway ;)

/me does. Whenever I tried Gnome or XFCE in the past, they have been 
deinstalled again faster than I could spell their names :-)

If I need something slim and fast, I take FVWM. :-)

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: wwwkeys.pgp.net

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Re: [gentoo-user] HIJACKING THREADS

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:42:49 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote:

> Who uses KDE nowadays anyway ;)

Linus :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Feminism: the radical notion that women are people.

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[gentoo-user] Hijacking threads

[Stroller]

On 28 Aug 2008, at 07:40, Suman Chakrabarty wrote:
>
> References: 	<48B4D7E5.9020307@daveoxley.co.uk>
> In-Reply-To: 	<48B4D7E5.9020307@daveoxley.co.uk>
>>
>
> After successful installation of Gentoo 2008 on an old Compaq  
> Pressario
> notebook, I was trying to emerge kde-meta on it, but was not  
> successful. :(


Please don't hijack threads like this:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_hijacking
   http://groups.google.com/group/linux.gentoo.user/msg/ 
8a540add45e7e9b8?

   "It is irritating for people using thread-aware e-mail clients...
   In case you didn't know, it happens when you use "reply" for sending
   a new question instead of composing a "new" message."

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Hijacking threads

[Suman Chakrabarty]

Stroller wrote:
>
> On 28 Aug 2008, at 07:40, Suman Chakrabarty wrote:
>>
>> References:     <48B4D7E5.9020307@daveoxley.co.uk>
>> In-Reply-To:     <48B4D7E5.9020307@daveoxley.co.uk>
>>>
>>
>> After successful installation of Gentoo 2008 on an old Compaq Pressario
>> notebook, I was trying to emerge kde-meta on it, but was not
>> successful. :(
>
>
> Please don't hijack threads like this:
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_hijacking
>   http://groups.google.com/group/linux.gentoo.user/msg/8a540add45e7e9b8?
>
>   "It is irritating for people using thread-aware e-mail clients...
>   In case you didn't know, it happens when you use "reply" for sending
>   a new question instead of composing a "new" message."
>


I am really sorry for the trouble. I did not know my email client
(Thunderbird) was that "intelligent"! I was not sure whether the list
e-mail address was present in my address book and hence I took the easy
way out of responding to a list message with modifying the subject line.
I was not aware of the underlying "thread-awareness". I'll not repeat it
next time. Thanks for pointing out.


Regards,
Suman Chakrabarty.