[gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Jude DaShiell]

Has the links browser crashed other computers when used with speakup?  If
it turns out I'm not unique maybe a safer browser choice ought to go on
the next minimal iso.

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 8:14 AM Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote:
>
> Has the links browser crashed other computers when used with speakup?  If
> it turns out I'm not unique maybe a safer browser choice ought to go on
> the next minimal iso.
>
>

To start, as you mention speakup, if you are yourself blind I acknowledge
at the outset my suggestions below may not be the most practical.

I'd start by doing everything I could to ensure the underlying motherboard
and memory are stable:

1) Disconnect all external devices other than your keyboard
2) Disconnect all internal drives other than the one you need to install to
3) Remove all memory except for 1 stick
4) If the machine has a motherboard VGA AND you have a card-based
GPU then remove that card
5) Leave wired ethernet connected if the machine and your network
support it.

At that point run memtest86 from USB or a DVD. If it's stable then
start adding back memory. Double check that all memory is the
same spec. I bought a used MB recently with 6 sticks but 2 of them
weren't the same as the other 4.

If all of that works I'd install some very light distro - probably
Ubuntu Server but you're free to choose - with the goal to
get a Linux kernel running. At that point I'm probably going to
install something like btop and watch temperatures.

If all that worked then you've made forward progress. If it
doesn't you've also made forward progress.

Good luck,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Jude DaShiell]

Yes, I am blind and can disassemble computers okay but never could learn
to assemble them since the equipment to test memory external to computers
has been and will remain inaccessible.  This if it's done will have to be
done by a repair shop and likely will cost more to repair this machine
than replace it if that much work is involved.


On Sun, 17 Apr 2022, Mark Knecht wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 8:14 AM Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > Has the links browser crashed other computers when used with speakup?  If
> > it turns out I'm not unique maybe a safer browser choice ought to go on
> > the next minimal iso.
> >
> >
>
> To start, as you mention speakup, if you are yourself blind I acknowledge
> at the outset my suggestions below may not be the most practical.
>
> I'd start by doing everything I could to ensure the underlying motherboard
> and memory are stable:
>
> 1) Disconnect all external devices other than your keyboard
> 2) Disconnect all internal drives other than the one you need to install to
> 3) Remove all memory except for 1 stick
> 4) If the machine has a motherboard VGA AND you have a card-based
> GPU then remove that card
> 5) Leave wired ethernet connected if the machine and your network
> support it.
>
> At that point run memtest86 from USB or a DVD. If it's stable then
> start adding back memory. Double check that all memory is the
> same spec. I bought a used MB recently with 6 sticks but 2 of them
> weren't the same as the other 4.
>
> If all of that works I'd install some very light distro - probably
> Ubuntu Server but you're free to choose - with the goal to
> get a Linux kernel running. At that point I'm probably going to
> install something like btop and watch temperatures.
>
> If all that worked then you've made forward progress. If it
> doesn't you've also made forward progress.
>
> Good luck,
> Mark
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Jack]

I think many on this list would be willing to help with this, if the 
location were close enough.  You might hunt for a local linux users 
group, or other group of folks likely to be interested and willing to 
tinker with hardware.  You might also see if there is a local high 
school or technical school with relevant classes, to ask if there is a 
student willing to help you.

The actual work in removing and replacing heat sink and fan is not that 
great - but if it is not near definite that is the cause of your 
problem, then it might be a wasted effort.

On 4/17/22 12:53, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Yes, I am blind and can disassemble computers okay but never could learn
> to assemble them since the equipment to test memory external to computers
> has been and will remain inaccessible.  This if it's done will have to be
> done by a repair shop and likely will cost more to repair this machine
> than replace it if that much work is involved.
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 8:14 AM Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote:
>>> Has the links browser crashed other computers when used with speakup?  If
>>> it turns out I'm not unique maybe a safer browser choice ought to go on
>>> the next minimal iso.
>>>
>>>
>> To start, as you mention speakup, if you are yourself blind I acknowledge
>> at the outset my suggestions below may not be the most practical.
>>
>> I'd start by doing everything I could to ensure the underlying motherboard
>> and memory are stable:
>>
>> 1) Disconnect all external devices other than your keyboard
>> 2) Disconnect all internal drives other than the one you need to install to
>> 3) Remove all memory except for 1 stick
>> 4) If the machine has a motherboard VGA AND you have a card-based
>> GPU then remove that card
>> 5) Leave wired ethernet connected if the machine and your network
>> support it.
>>
>> At that point run memtest86 from USB or a DVD. If it's stable then
>> start adding back memory. Double check that all memory is the
>> same spec. I bought a used MB recently with 6 sticks but 2 of them
>> weren't the same as the other 4.
>>
>> If all of that works I'd install some very light distro - probably
>> Ubuntu Server but you're free to choose - with the goal to
>> get a Linux kernel running. At that point I'm probably going to
>> install something like btop and watch temperatures.
>>
>> If all that worked then you've made forward progress. If it
>> doesn't you've also made forward progress.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Mark
>>
>>

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 9:53 AM Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, I am blind and can disassemble computers okay but never could learn
> to assemble them since the equipment to test memory external to computers
> has been and will remain inaccessible.  This if it's done will have to be
> done by a repair shop and likely will cost more to repair this machine
> than replace it if that much work is involved.
>

I was curious about speakup as I had not heard about it so I attempted
an install on my Ubuntu desktop but it's not in the default repositories.

Reading the Ubuntu docs they say speakup is applied as a kernel
patch to 2.4 & 2.6 level kernels and that to use it with a modern
version the patches would have to be ported. It appears that all
the docs on speakup I found quickly stalled out in 2008-2010.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/doc/Speakup

Do you know of newer work?

I'm curious about the program from a persona point of
view. When I started at National Semiconductor in 1978
we had a cantankerous old guy working on text-to-speach
synthesizers so I had a little bit of exposure.

There are old Ubuntu releases here:

https://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/

If I can figure out what kernels they were running I could
possibly try creating a VM and see where it leads me.

Echoing Jack's comment, I'm not sure this is a heat
sink problem. Misoperation at the time of letting
go of the reset button prior to POST. If the machine is
starting cold a processor wouldn't overheat that fast but
I haven't yet read all of your thread.

I think there's also an opportunity here to do some sort
of remote debug with you if we can find anything that does
boot.

Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Jude DaShiell]

I'm checking on a lower bucks user group to see if it's still active.
They do all manner of operating systems including linux in that group.


On Sun, 17 Apr 2022, Jack wrote:

> I think many on this list would be willing to help with this, if the location
> were close enough.  You might hunt for a local linux users group, or other
> group of folks likely to be interested and willing to tinker with hardware. 
> You might also see if there is a local high school or technical school with
> relevant classes, to ask if there is a student willing to help you.
>
> The actual work in removing and replacing heat sink and fan is not that great
> - but if it is not near definite that is the cause of your problem, then it
> might be a wasted effort.
>
> On 4/17/22 12:53, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Yes, I am blind and can disassemble computers okay but never could learn
> > to assemble them since the equipment to test memory external to computers
> > has been and will remain inaccessible.  This if it's done will have to be
> > done by a repair shop and likely will cost more to repair this machine
> > than replace it if that much work is involved.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 17 Apr 2022, Mark Knecht wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 8:14 AM Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote:
> >>> Has the links browser crashed other computers when used with speakup?  If
> >>> it turns out I'm not unique maybe a safer browser choice ought to go on
> >>> the next minimal iso.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> To start, as you mention speakup, if you are yourself blind I acknowledge
> >> at the outset my suggestions below may not be the most practical.
> >>
> >> I'd start by doing everything I could to ensure the underlying motherboard
> >> and memory are stable:
> >>
> >> 1) Disconnect all external devices other than your keyboard
> >> 2) Disconnect all internal drives other than the one you need to install to
> >> 3) Remove all memory except for 1 stick
> >> 4) If the machine has a motherboard VGA AND you have a card-based
> >> GPU then remove that card
> >> 5) Leave wired ethernet connected if the machine and your network
> >> support it.
> >>
> >> At that point run memtest86 from USB or a DVD. If it's stable then
> >> start adding back memory. Double check that all memory is the
> >> same spec. I bought a used MB recently with 6 sticks but 2 of them
> >> weren't the same as the other 4.
> >>
> >> If all of that works I'd install some very light distro - probably
> >> Ubuntu Server but you're free to choose - with the goal to
> >> get a Linux kernel running. At that point I'm probably going to
> >> install something like btop and watch temperatures.
> >>
> >> If all that worked then you've made forward progress. If it
> >> doesn't you've also made forward progress.
> >>
> >> Good luck,
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:42 AM Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote:
>
> I'm checking on a lower bucks user group to see if it's still active.
> They do all manner of operating systems including linux in that group.
>
>
<SNIP>

I was able to set up an Ubuntu 10.04.4 Lucid VM here in under 15
minutes. It came up running the 2.6.32 kernel which I think
should be patchable with speakup.

Will continue to investigate.

Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[John Covici]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:28:50 -0400,
Mark Knecht wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 9:53 AM Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I am blind and can disassemble computers okay but never could learn
> > to assemble them since the equipment to test memory external to computers
> > has been and will remain inaccessible.  This if it's done will have to be
> > done by a repair shop and likely will cost more to repair this machine
> > than replace it if that much work is involved.
> >
> 
> I was curious about speakup as I had not heard about it so I attempted
> an install on my Ubuntu desktop but it's not in the default repositories.
> 
> Reading the Ubuntu docs they say speakup is applied as a kernel
> patch to 2.4 & 2.6 level kernels and that to use it with a modern
> version the patches would have to be ported. It appears that all
> the docs on speakup I found quickly stalled out in 2008-2010.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/doc/Speakup
> 
> Do you know of newer work?
> 
> I'm curious about the program from a persona point of
> view. When I started at National Semiconductor in 1978
> we had a cantankerous old guy working on text-to-speach
> synthesizers so I had a little bit of exposure.
> 
> There are old Ubuntu releases here:
> 
> https://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/
> 
> If I can figure out what kernels they were running I could
> possibly try creating a VM and see where it leads me.
> 
> Echoing Jack's comment, I'm not sure this is a heat
> sink problem. Misoperation at the time of letting
> go of the reset button prior to POST. If the machine is
> starting cold a processor wouldn't overheat that fast but
> I haven't yet read all of your thread.
> 
> I think there's also an opportunity here to do some sort
> of remote debug with you if we can find anything that does
> boot.

Speakup works in most recent kernels, 5.10.x and it is now in the
mainstream kernel, but I forget what release it got in there.  There
are two types of synthesizers, hardware and software.  Most people use
software synthesizers these days, I still use a hardware synthesizer.
  You might need the espeakup package to make it work, or speechdup
  and speech-dispatcher.
  I am pretty sure speakup is even in the net install of gentoo.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 11:57 AM John Covici <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> Speakup works in most recent kernels, 5.10.x and it is now in the
> mainstream kernel, but I forget what release it got in there.  There
> are two types of synthesizers, hardware and software.  Most people use
> software synthesizers these days, I still use a hardware synthesizer.
>   You might need the espeakup package to make it work, or speechdup
>   and speech-dispatcher.
>   I am pretty sure speakup is even in the net install of gentoo.
>

John,
   Great info. Thanks. On my Kubuntu system a simple terminal command

espeak "hello"

worked without much trouble. Initially it went to a USB device but I
reconfigured in pulseaudio and now hear audio. I was also able to type a
few sentences and it properly put some extra delay in at the periods.

   This suggests (to me) that if Jude gets stuck on the Gentoo part
of this he could fall back to something like Kubuntu as a test of his
hard issues at least.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] for the speakup users on the list

[Wols Lists]

On 17/04/2022 18:28, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Echoing Jack's comment, I'm not sure this is a heat
> sink problem. Misoperation at the time of letting
> go of the reset button prior to POST. If the machine is
> starting cold a processor wouldn't overheat that fast but
> I haven't yet read all of your thread.
> 
> I think there's also an opportunity here to do some sort
> of remote debug with you if we can find anything that does
> boot.

On quite a few occasions I've had machines that won't boot. Memory is 
notorious for causing a black screen on boot, no beeps, no nothing.

My first PC (Cyrix 686) eventually cured itself after I'd reseated the 
memory 3 or 4 times. This machine, I nicked its 2x8GB for another 
machine and replaced it with 2x16GB - that took several reseats before 
it eventually worked. I'm sure I've had others ...

Okay, if Jude is blind he wouldn't see if the problem is "nothing 
happening", but on any machine that won't do anything that is the first 
suspect...

The other thing is, if the mobo and processor aren't bought as a 
"matched pair" you could get hit like I did with the first incarnation 
of this machine - the mobo and cpu were allegedly compatible, but the 
bios wasn't - I had to RMA the mobo, they upgraded the bios, and then 
everything allegedly was hunky dory. I still haven't rebuilt that mobo 
though ...

Cheers,
Wol