[gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Andrew Lowe]

Hi all,
	A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who seem to know 
their shells back to front so here goes.

	I have set up a Win32 based development environment, 
bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to learn 
C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the & at the 
end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them, it's major 
angst.

	The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off the top of my 
head I tried:

	alias "npp=npp %1 &"

npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the best/easiest 
way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or is there a better 
way?

	Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,

		Andrew

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Nico Verrijdt]

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Hi Andrew,

2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au>:

> Hi all,
>         A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who seem to
> know their shells back to front so here goes.
>
>         I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
> bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to learn C
> on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the & at the end of
> the command when I fire up the editor but for them, it's major angst.
>
>         The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off the top
> of my head I tried:
>
>         alias "npp=npp %1 &"
>

Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?


> npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the best/easiest
> way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or is there a better
> way?
>
>         Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
>
>                 Andrew
>
>
Hope this helps,
Nico

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Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Alan McKinnon]

On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au
> <mailto:agl@wht.com.au>>:
>
>     Hi all,
>              A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
>     seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.
>
>              I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
>     bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
>     learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the &
>     at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
>     it's major angst.
>
>              The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
>     the top of my head I tried:
>
>              alias "npp=npp %1 &"
>
> Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?
>
>
>     npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
>     best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
>     is there a better way?
>
>              Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
>
>                      Andrew
>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Nico


Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?

Or look at it this way:

It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any 
other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the 
problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?

Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people 
who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Andrew Lowe]

On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au
>> <mailto:agl@wht.com.au>>:
>>
>>     Hi all,
>>              A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
>>     seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.
>>
>>              I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
>>     bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
>>     learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the &
>>     at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
>>     it's major angst.
>>
>>              The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
>>     the top of my head I tried:
>>
>>              alias "npp=npp %1 &"
>>
>> Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?
>>
>>
>>     npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
>>     best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
>>     is there a better way?
>>
>>              Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
>>
>>                      Andrew
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Nico
>
>
> Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
> With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?
>
> Or look at it this way:
>
> It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
> other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
> problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?
>
> Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
> who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...
>
	Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of an 
Engineering degree. These are people who will become 
Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire 
to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is 
their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary, 
but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to 
think about.

	In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell 
them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and 
reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken, 
it won't do as I want...."

	Andrew

p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.

	

[SOLVED]Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Andrew Lowe]

On 06/12/16 23:07, Andrew Lowe wrote:
> On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>> 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au
>>> <mailto:agl@wht.com.au>>:
>>>
>>>     Hi all,
>>>              A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
>>>     seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.
>>>
>>>              I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
>>>     bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
>>>     learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the &
>>>     at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
>>>     it's major angst.
>>>
>>>              The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
>>>     the top of my head I tried:
>>>
>>>              alias "npp=npp %1 &"
>>>
>>> Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?
>>>
>>>
>>>     npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
>>>     best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
>>>     is there a better way?
>>>
>>>              Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
>>>
>>>                      Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Nico
>>
>>
>> Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
>> With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?
>>
>> Or look at it this way:
>>
>> It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
>> other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
>> problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?
>>
>> Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
>> who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...
>>
>     Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of
> an Engineering degree. These are people who will become
> Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire
> to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is
> their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary,
> but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to
> think about.
>
>     In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell
> them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and
> reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken,
> it won't do as I want...."
>
>     Andrew
>
> p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.
>

	Simple answer to this which a single google search found. You CAN'T 
pass parameters to an alias under Bash. You need to do a function. A 
simple function of:

npp()
{
     npp $1 &
}

was all I needed.

	Andrew

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Peter Humphrey]

Oi! I'm missing e-mails!

On Sunday 12 Jun 2016 23:07:09 Andrew Lowe wrote:
> On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:

I haven't received Alan's e-mail.

> > On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
> >> Hi Andrew,
> >> 
> >> 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au
> >> 
> >> <mailto:agl@wht.com.au>>:
> >>     Hi all,
> >>     
> >>              A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
> >>     
> >>     seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.
> >>     
> >>              I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
> >>     
> >>     bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
> >>     learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put the
> >>     &
> >>     at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
> >>     it's major angst.
> >>     
> >>              The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
> >>     
> >>     the top of my head I tried:
> >>              alias "npp=npp %1 &"
> >> 
> >> Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?
> >> 
> >>     npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
> >>     best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
> >>     is there a better way?
> >>     
> >>              Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
> >>              
> >>                      Andrew
> >> 
> >> Hope this helps,
> >> Nico
> > 
> > Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
> > With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?
> > 
> > Or look at it this way:
> > 
> > It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
> > other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
> > problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?
> > 
> > Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
> > who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...
> 
> 	Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of an
> Engineering degree. These are people who will become
> Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire
> to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is
> their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary,
> but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to
> think about.
> 
> 	In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell
> them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and
> reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken,
> it won't do as I want...."
> 
> 	Andrew
> 
> p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.

Now that's a classic debug case - where are these messages being dropped?

It's the second time I've noticed it in this list today.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Mick]

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On Sunday 12 Jun 2016 18:04:39 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Oi! I'm missing e-mails!

I occasionally miss the odd email here and there too.  Sometimes I find (only 
some of) them in Gmail's Spam folder.  Other messages totally disappear and I 
surmise I missed parts of a thread by subsequent messages in the list, which I 
receive as expected.  Tis a mystery!  O_o

[snip ...]
> Now that's a classic debug case - where are these messages being dropped?
> 
> It's the second time I've noticed it in this list today.

Gmail is more reliable than other mail ISPs I have used over the years and it 
is free (at the point of use), so I live with it.  I don't know if missing 
messages are caused by Gmail, or by gentoo's M/L smtp server.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: [SOLVED]Re: [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Jonathan Callen]

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On 06/12/2016 11:54 AM, Andrew Lowe wrote:
> On 06/12/16 23:07, Andrew Lowe wrote:
>> On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
>>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au
>>>> <mailto:agl@wht.com.au>>:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi all,
>>>>              A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
>>>>     seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.
>>>>
>>>>              I have set up a Win32 based development environment,
>>>>     bash/cc/ls/etc/etc, for 1st year Engineering students who have to
>>>>     learn C on a command line. It's fine for me to remember to put
>>>> the &
>>>>     at the end of the command when I fire up the editor but for them,
>>>>     it's major angst.
>>>>
>>>>              The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off
>>>>     the top of my head I tried:
>>>>
>>>>              alias "npp=npp %1 &"
>>>>
>>>> Shouldn't this be: alias npp="npp %1 &"  ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the
>>>>     best/easiest way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or
>>>>     is there a better way?
>>>>
>>>>              Any thoughts, greatly appreciated,
>>>>
>>>>                      Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> Nico
>>>
>>>
>>> Or just tell them to remember to add the & at the end.
>>> With an alias what will they do when they don't want it?
>>>
>>> Or look at it this way:
>>>
>>> It's syntax, it's important. C is probably more syntax-critical than any
>>> other language around (binds to the right, anyone?) so what's the
>>> problem with requiring correct syntax on the command line as well?
>>>
>>> Obligatory disclaimer: I've recently had a bellyache full of dumb people
>>> who insist I put code when a human (themselves) belongs...
>>>
>>     Yes, I agree BUT, this is a "half subject" in a common first year of
>> an Engineering degree. These are people who will become
>> Civil/Mechanical/Electrical/Chemical Engineers and they have no desire
>> to learn programming. To put it bluntly, all they are interested in is
>> their car, getting drunk and trying to get a root - the order may vary,
>> but that is the top three priorities. Anything else is just too much to
>> think about.
>>
>>     In reality, I'm doing this to make my life easier. As much as I tell
>> them to do something, write up documents that tell them what to do and
>> reiterate what they have to do, I still get the question "It's broken,
>> it won't do as I want...."
>>
>>     Andrew
>>
>> p.s. Nico's point was a typo on my part in the email.
>>
> 
>     Simple answer to this which a single google search found. You CAN'T
> pass parameters to an alias under Bash. You need to do a function. A
> simple function of:
> 
> npp()
> {
>     npp $1 &
> }
> 
> was all I needed.
> 
>     Andrew
> 
> 

A better function for the same (that also doesn't loop forever because
the function might be calling itself):

npp() {
    command npp "$@" &
}

This allows any number of arguments to be passed, instead of "exactly
one" and allows filenames containing spaces, etc. to be passed correctly.

-- 
Jonathan Callen



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[gentoo-user] [SOLVED]Re: [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Andrew Lowe]

On 06/13/16 03:06, Jonathan Callen wrote:
> On 06/12/2016 11:54 AM, Andrew Lowe wrote:
>> On 06/12/16 23:07, Andrew Lowe wrote:
>>> On 06/12/16 22:43, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>> On 12/06/2016 16:33, Nico Verrijdt wrote:
>>>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-06-12 16:26 GMT+02:00 Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au
>>>>> <mailto:agl@wht.com.au>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Hi all,
>>>>>              A bit off topic here, but there are plenty of people who
>>>>>     seem to know their shells back to front so here goes.

[snip]
...
...
[snip]

>
> A better function for the same (that also doesn't loop forever because
> the function might be calling itself):
>
> npp() {
>     command npp "$@" &
> }
>
> This allows any number of arguments to be passed, instead of "exactly
> one" and allows filenames containing spaces, etc. to be passed correctly.
>

Thanks, that's a nice little tweak.

	Andrew

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 12 Jun 2016 19:07:45 Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 12 Jun 2016 18:04:39 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Oi! I'm missing e-mails!
> 
> I occasionally miss the odd email here and there too.  Sometimes I find
> (only some of) them in Gmail's Spam folder.  Other messages totally
> disappear and I surmise I missed parts of a thread by subsequent messages
> in the list, which I receive as expected.  Tis a mystery!  O_o

--->8

> Gmail is more reliable than other mail ISPs I have used over the years and
> it is free (at the point of use), so I live with it.  I don't know if
> missing messages are caused by Gmail, or by gentoo's M/L smtp server.

Well I don't use GMail, so that rules that out. Oh, and I'm also subscribed 
to kdepim-users@kde.org, which (also?) uses mailman. I see hardly any traffic 
there but occasionally a message comes through showing that I've missed lots 
of others. Even if I post there myself I don't see my message.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Joerg Schilling]

Andrew Lowe <agl@wht.com.au> wrote:

> 	The first thing that comes to mind is an alias. Just off the top of my 
> head I tried:
>
> 	alias "npp=npp %1 &"
>
> npp being the editor, but that didn't work. Is an alias the best/easiest 
> way to do this and if so, what would the syntax be, or is there a better 
> way?

Looks like something that will not work as %1 is not understood except by the 
jobcontrol commands.

It may be an attempt to write a parameterizable alias....

AFAIK, bash does not support parameterized macros.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.net                    (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.org/private/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/schilytools/files/'

Re: [gentoo-user] [A bit off-topic] Bash alias and &

[Adam Carter]

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Another option is to suspend the foreground process (ctrl-Z) then you can
background it by typing bg, which will resume running and put it in the
background.

 # sleep 10
^Z
[1]+  Stopped                 sleep 10
m # bg
[1]+ sleep 10 &
#

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