[gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Hi.  Well, I thought I was making progress with systemd, but my gnome
session kept saying "oh no something has gone wrong" and would not
work.  Also, after such a thing has happened, all my consoles would keep
using the last line to put every line and so I had to keep rebooting.
And when I would reboot systemd would not behave the same way, sometimes
it would hang at certain places, and sometimes it would go all the way
through, but things would not start properly -- maybe a concurrency
problem, but its hard to say what was going on.  What a mess, but I
guess I have a setup which systemd does not like, too much parallellism
and no way to get things to start in the order I want them -- or at
least none I could figure out!

I am open to suggestions here, and I have a log segment I can put
somewhere to illustrage the "oh no" problem, but I am getting tired of
the mess and if I can find something which works with orca I will do
that instead.

Any suggestions appreciated.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Walter Dnes]

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 03:50:04PM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote
> Hi.  Well, I thought I was making progress with systemd, but my gnome
> session kept saying "oh no something has gone wrong" and would not
> work.

  Heads-up... Lennart has the ears of the Gnome developers.  Recent
Gnome will not work without systemd... period... end of story.  If you
stay away from systemd, you'll have to stay away from Gnome.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

[gentoo-user] Re: about to give up on systemd and gnome

[walt]

On 05/23/2014 12:50 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Hi.  Well, I thought I was making progress with systemd, but my gnome
> session kept saying "oh no something has gone wrong" and would not
> work.  Also, after such a thing has happened, all my consoles would keep
> using the last line to put every line and so I had to keep rebooting.
> And when I would reboot systemd would not behave the same way, sometimes
> it would hang at certain places, and sometimes it would go all the way
> through, but things would not start properly -- maybe a concurrency
> problem, but its hard to say what was going on.  What a mess, but I
> guess I have a setup which systemd does not like, too much parallellism
> and no way to get things to start in the order I want them -- or at
> least none I could figure out!
> 
> I am open to suggestions here, and I have a log segment I can put
> somewhere to illustrage the "oh no" problem, but I am getting tired of
> the mess and if I can find something which works with orca I will do
> that instead.

I've spent many frustrating days fighting the "oh no" syndrome and I
found two very annoying workarounds before I gave up on gnome3.

First, the file ~/.gnomerc-errors may give you some good hints. Many
of my "oh no" moments were caused by broken xorg 3D rendering support,
i.e. broken video drivers, etc, etc.

Second, many other "oh no" moments were caused by $SOME_MYSTERIOUS
item in ~/.config or ~/.local suddenly rendered erroneous by a gnome3
update.

I found some of those problem items by renaming those two directories
and starting with a completely blank gnome3 slate.

If gnome-shell starts okay with the new tabla rasa then you can copy
the old .local and .config subdirectories one by one into the new gnome
environment until you can reproduce the original breakage.  Repeat as
needed.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 05/23/2014 12:50 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Hi.  Well, I thought I was making progress with systemd, but my gnome
> > session kept saying "oh no something has gone wrong" and would not
> > work.  Also, after such a thing has happened, all my consoles would keep
> > using the last line to put every line and so I had to keep rebooting.
> > And when I would reboot systemd would not behave the same way, sometimes
> > it would hang at certain places, and sometimes it would go all the way
> > through, but things would not start properly -- maybe a concurrency
> > problem, but its hard to say what was going on.  What a mess, but I
> > guess I have a setup which systemd does not like, too much parallellism
> > and no way to get things to start in the order I want them -- or at
> > least none I could figure out!
> > 
> > I am open to suggestions here, and I have a log segment I can put
> > somewhere to illustrage the "oh no" problem, but I am getting tired of
> > the mess and if I can find something which works with orca I will do
> > that instead.
> 
> I've spent many frustrating days fighting the "oh no" syndrome and I
> found two very annoying workarounds before I gave up on gnome3.
> 
> First, the file ~/.gnomerc-errors may give you some good hints. Many
> of my "oh no" moments were caused by broken xorg 3D rendering support,
> i.e. broken video drivers, etc, etc.
> 
> Second, many other "oh no" moments were caused by $SOME_MYSTERIOUS
> item in ~/.config or ~/.local suddenly rendered erroneous by a gnome3
> update.
> 
> I found some of those problem items by renaming those two directories
> and starting with a completely blank gnome3 slate.
> 
> If gnome-shell starts okay with the new tabla rasa then you can copy
> the old .local and .config subdirectories one by one into the new gnome
> environment until you can reproduce the original breakage.  Repeat as
> needed.

Thanks for the hint --I have no ~/.gnomerc-errors -- I have a
.Xsession-errors, but it never told me anything useful.

I may try your other suggestion next time I have the courage to boot
into systemd.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Tom Wijsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 429 bytes --]

On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400
covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> Any suggestions appreciated. 

Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`?

(-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot)

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > Any suggestions appreciated. 
> 
> Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`?
> 
> (-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot)

I have a segment from the regular logs not in reverse order, but I think
it will go from start to end of gdm service.  I will put it somewhere
and update the thread a bit later today.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > Any suggestions appreciated. 
> 
> Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`?
> 
> (-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot)

OK, here is the link to the log excerpt:

https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a656


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Edward M]

On 5/23/2014 10:52 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400
>> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
>>
>>> Any suggestions appreciated.
>> Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`?
>>
>> (-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot)
> OK, here is the link to the log excerpt:
>
> https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a656
>
        i get a blue screen with owncloud and a message saying "this link does not seem to work anymore"
        with a few possible causes, item was removed, link removed, sharing is disabled

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Edward M <edwardmartinez@openmailbox.org> wrote:

> 
> On 5/23/2014 10:52 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400
> >> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Any suggestions appreciated.
> >> Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`?
> >>
> >> (-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot)
> > OK, here is the link to the log excerpt:
> >
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a656
> >
>        i get a blue screen with owncloud and a message saying "this link does not seem to work anymore"
>        with a few possible causes, item was removed, link removed, sharing is disabled
https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a65

Try that instead, sorry about that.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Edward M <edwardmartinez@openmailbox.org> wrote:

> 
> On 5/23/2014 10:52 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400
> >> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Any suggestions appreciated.
> >> Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`?
> >>
> >> (-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot)
> > OK, here is the link to the log excerpt:
> >
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a656
> >
>        i get a blue screen with owncloud and a message saying "this link does not seem to work anymore"
>        with a few possible causes, item was removed, link removed, sharing is disabled

Sorry, that one was wrong as well, here is the correct one which I have
tested myself!
https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a665


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[EdwardM]

On 05/24/14 06:19, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Edward M <edwardmartinez@openmailbox.org> wrote:
>
>> On 5/23/2014 10:52 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
>>> Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400
>>>> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions appreciated.
>>>> Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`?
>>>>
>>>> (-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot)
>>> OK, here is the link to the log excerpt:
>>>
>>> https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a656
>>>
>>         i get a blue screen with owncloud and a message saying "this link does not seem to work anymore"
>>         with a few possible causes, item was removed, link removed, sharing is disabled
> Sorry, that one was wrong as well, here is the correct one which I have
> tested myself!
> https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a665
>
>
        Yes, this works.

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Tom Wijsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2782 bytes --]

On Sat, 24 May 2014 02:19:19 -0400
covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> Sorry, that one was wrong as well, here is the correct one which I
> have tested myself!
> https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a665

(TL;DR: Enable the COMPOSITE extension in your Xorg configuration.)

Which version of GNOME is this? I run GNOME 3.12; if you still run
a much older version of GNOME, you might want to consider an upgrade.

Did a diff against mine.

First bit where it goes wrong:

    gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
    GetAll() when retrieving properties
    for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled
    gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
    GetAll() when retrieving properties
    for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled

Second bit where it goes wrong:

    /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
    composite extension.
    /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
    Helper exited with code 256
    /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
    composite extension.
    /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
    Helper exited with code 256
    /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: ** (process:14093): WARNING **:
    software acceleration check failed: Child process exited with code
    1

The first one is accountsservice; here you can check if you have the
last version (or try a different version), as well as see if the
systemd USE flag on it is set. Though, don't worry too much; given that
it goes further past this point, this might be a false positive. But it
might be relevant might you experience another problem later on...

The second one is way more interesting, it is a process that exits with
code 1 and definitely is a failure; the lack of presence of a composite
extension means that there is something wrong with your Xorg
configuration or detection, maybe you have explicitly disabling it or
have set it up in a way that it breaks.

Alternatively consider to remove the existing Xorg configuration files,
try again; if it still breaks, you can generate one with nvidia-xconfig.

In my case I get ...

    gdm-Xorg-:0[2680]: Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE

... which doesn't appear in your log.

A similar forum topic seems to suggest it happens in such case:

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-977526-start-0.html

Thus can you try enabling that extension? 

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 24 May 2014 02:19:19 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > Sorry, that one was wrong as well, here is the correct one which I
> > have tested myself!
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a665
> 
> (TL;DR: Enable the COMPOSITE extension in your Xorg configuration.)
> 
> Which version of GNOME is this? I run GNOME 3.12; if you still run
> a much older version of GNOME, you might want to consider an upgrade.
> 
> Did a diff against mine.
> 
> First bit where it goes wrong:
> 
>     gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
>     GetAll() when retrieving properties
>     for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled
>     gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
>     GetAll() when retrieving properties
>     for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled
> 
> Second bit where it goes wrong:
> 
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
>     composite extension.
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
>     Helper exited with code 256
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
>     composite extension.
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
>     Helper exited with code 256
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: ** (process:14093): WARNING **:
>     software acceleration check failed: Child process exited with code
>     1
> 
> The first one is accountsservice; here you can check if you have the
> last version (or try a different version), as well as see if the
> systemd USE flag on it is set. Though, don't worry too much; given that
> it goes further past this point, this might be a false positive. But it
> might be relevant might you experience another problem later on...
> 
> The second one is way more interesting, it is a process that exits with
> code 1 and definitely is a failure; the lack of presence of a composite
> extension means that there is something wrong with your Xorg
> configuration or detection, maybe you have explicitly disabling it or
> have set it up in a way that it breaks.
> 
> Alternatively consider to remove the existing Xorg configuration files,
> try again; if it still breaks, you can generate one with nvidia-xconfig.
> 
> In my case I get ...
> 
>     gdm-Xorg-:0[2680]: Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE
> 
> ... which doesn't appear in your log.
> 
> A similar forum topic seems to suggest it happens in such case:
> 
> https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-977526-start-0.html
> 
> Thus can you try enabling that extension? 

OK, how do I enable that extension?  I have it disabled, I wonder if
I looked in xorg.conf and discovered it is disabled, but I can no longer
remember why it was disabled, but I can certainly enable it and try
again.

Now if I could only get systemd to behave!

Thanks so much for looking.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Tom Wijsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 419 bytes --]

On Sat, 24 May 2014 05:40:37 -0400
covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> OK, how do I enable that extension?

Change it from false to true; alternatively, just remove the line
and/or the surrounding section.



-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 24 May 2014 02:19:19 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > Sorry, that one was wrong as well, here is the correct one which I
> > have tested myself!
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a665
> 
> (TL;DR: Enable the COMPOSITE extension in your Xorg configuration.)
> 
> Which version of GNOME is this? I run GNOME 3.12; if you still run
> a much older version of GNOME, you might want to consider an upgrade.
> 
> Did a diff against mine.
> 
> First bit where it goes wrong:
> 
>     gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
>     GetAll() when retrieving properties
>     for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled
>     gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
>     GetAll() when retrieving properties
>     for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled
> 
> Second bit where it goes wrong:
> 
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
>     composite extension.
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
>     Helper exited with code 256
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
>     composite extension.
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
>     Helper exited with code 256
>     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: ** (process:14093): WARNING **:
>     software acceleration check failed: Child process exited with code
>     1
> 
> The first one is accountsservice; here you can check if you have the
> last version (or try a different version), as well as see if the
> systemd USE flag on it is set. Though, don't worry too much; given that
> it goes further past this point, this might be a false positive. But it
> might be relevant might you experience another problem later on...
> 
> The second one is way more interesting, it is a process that exits with
> code 1 and definitely is a failure; the lack of presence of a composite
> extension means that there is something wrong with your Xorg
> configuration or detection, maybe you have explicitly disabling it or
> have set it up in a way that it breaks.
> 
> Alternatively consider to remove the existing Xorg configuration files,
> try again; if it still breaks, you can generate one with nvidia-xconfig.
> 
> In my case I get ...
> 
>     gdm-Xorg-:0[2680]: Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE
> 
> ... which doesn't appear in your log.
> 
> A similar forum topic seems to suggest it happens in such case:
> 
> https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-977526-start-0.html
> 
> Thus can you try enabling that extension? 

OK, well that fixed a lot, if I do a startx, I can get a gnome session
(I even tried it under openrc) and it did come up.  I wonder if I could
get along that way?  So, I rebooted under systemd, but gdm still is not
working, but I am not sure what the message is, since I am using a
screen reader and  the gnome session is not saying anything, but I will
have more information later on today.  So we are in much better shape
than before.
Thanks much.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 24 May 2014 02:19:19 -0400
> > covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry, that one was wrong as well, here is the correct one which I
> > > have tested myself!
> > > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a665
> > 
> > (TL;DR: Enable the COMPOSITE extension in your Xorg configuration.)
> > 
> > Which version of GNOME is this? I run GNOME 3.12; if you still run
> > a much older version of GNOME, you might want to consider an upgrade.
> > 
> > Did a diff against mine.
> > 
> > First bit where it goes wrong:
> > 
> >     gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
> >     GetAll() when retrieving properties
> >     for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled
> >     gdm-session-worker[14085]: <7>AccountsService: Error calling
> >     GetAll() when retrieving properties
> >     for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled
> > 
> > Second bit where it goes wrong:
> > 
> >     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
> >     composite extension.
> >     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
> >     Helper exited with code 256
> >     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No
> >     composite extension.
> >     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated:
> >     Helper exited with code 256
> >     /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: ** (process:14093): WARNING **:
> >     software acceleration check failed: Child process exited with code
> >     1
> > 
> > The first one is accountsservice; here you can check if you have the
> > last version (or try a different version), as well as see if the
> > systemd USE flag on it is set. Though, don't worry too much; given that
> > it goes further past this point, this might be a false positive. But it
> > might be relevant might you experience another problem later on...
> > 
> > The second one is way more interesting, it is a process that exits with
> > code 1 and definitely is a failure; the lack of presence of a composite
> > extension means that there is something wrong with your Xorg
> > configuration or detection, maybe you have explicitly disabling it or
> > have set it up in a way that it breaks.
> > 
> > Alternatively consider to remove the existing Xorg configuration files,
> > try again; if it still breaks, you can generate one with nvidia-xconfig.
> > 
> > In my case I get ...
> > 
> >     gdm-Xorg-:0[2680]: Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE
> > 
> > ... which doesn't appear in your log.
> > 
> > A similar forum topic seems to suggest it happens in such case:
> > 
> > https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-977526-start-0.html
> > 
> > Thus can you try enabling that extension? 
> 
> OK, well that fixed a lot, if I do a startx, I can get a gnome session
> (I even tried it under openrc) and it did come up.  I wonder if I could
> get along that way?  So, I rebooted under systemd, but gdm still is not
> working, but I am not sure what the message is, since I am using a
> screen reader and  the gnome session is not saying anything, but I will
> have more information later on today.  So we are in much better shape
> than before.
> Thanks much.

OK, here is what is happening -- if I do a startx & in any console where
I am logged in, I get a gnome session on that tty (wish it was on the
unused one), and I seem to be good  to go.  However when I try to use
gdm, I no longer get the oh no stuff, but it seems I get a list of some
of my userids, but I can't do anything, I can up arrow to one of them,
but hitting enter does nothing.  Also, tab does nothing, nor do
left/right arrow keys and strangely enough, my name is not among the
listed ids.

Here is a log segment from start to stop of gdm.

https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=3bae607fe4d5043b325b6339e3672c84

I hope someone can make sense of this because after this happened my
regular ttys won't scroll once they get to the last line and the only
way to solve this problem is to reboot the system.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

[gentoo-user] Re: about to give up on systemd and gnome

[walt]

On 05/24/2014 12:29 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> if I do a startx & in any console where
> I am logged in, I get a gnome session on that tty (wish it was on the
> unused one),

Canek gave me this clue a few weeks ago:

$startx -- vt1

You can use any other vt you want, of course.  I use vt1 so that
systemd-logind will allow me to mount local drives, shutdown or reboot
as a normal user, etc.  All the stuff that consolekit did in the past.

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Tom Wijsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3002 bytes --]

On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:29:34 -0400
covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> OK, here is what is happening -- if I do a startx & in any console
> where I am logged in, I get a gnome session on that tty (wish it was
> on the unused one), and I seem to be good  to go.  However when I try
> to use gdm, I no longer get the oh no stuff, but it seems I get a
> list of some of my userids, but I can't do anything, I can up arrow
> to one of them, but hitting enter does nothing.  Also, tab does
> nothing, nor do left/right arrow keys and strangely enough, my name
> is not among the listed ids.
> 
> Here is a log segment from start to stop of gdm.
> 
> https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=3bae607fe4d5043b325b6339e3672c84
> 
> I hope someone can make sense of this because after this happened my
> regular ttys won't scroll once they get to the last line and the only
> way to solve this problem is to reboot the system.

This might be PAM related:

    gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: initializing PAM;
    service=gdm-password username=krnotley seat=seat0
    gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: Set PAM environment
    variable: 'XDG_SEAT=seat0'
    gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: 1 new messages
    received from PAM
    gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: received pam message
    of type 1 with payload 'Password: '
    gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): conversation
    failed
    gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): auth could
    not identify password for [krnotley]
    gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user
    gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user
    gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: PAM conversation
    returning 19: Conversation error
    gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: uninitializing PAM

A failing conversation here looks odd to me; so, maybe this krontley
user is bugged (preventing others from being listed?) or PAM itself
isn't working properly at all?

Check the following link which can be a possible solution to this:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd#systemd-logind_.26_pam_systemd

Other than that I see gnome-settings-daemon failing as it exits with
code 1, but with no clear warning or error; from experience with that,
that could be a reason to display or usage problems. A way to debug
this could be to restart it in the shell to catch more output, if any;
but I'm more suspicious about PAM so try to get PAM fixed first.

It could just as well be failing because you shutdown GDM; it might be
more clear if you capture a log where you don't shutdown GDM, as then
the last messages would be much more related to the problem at hand.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:29:34 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > OK, here is what is happening -- if I do a startx & in any console
> > where I am logged in, I get a gnome session on that tty (wish it was
> > on the unused one), and I seem to be good  to go.  However when I try
> > to use gdm, I no longer get the oh no stuff, but it seems I get a
> > list of some of my userids, but I can't do anything, I can up arrow
> > to one of them, but hitting enter does nothing.  Also, tab does
> > nothing, nor do left/right arrow keys and strangely enough, my name
> > is not among the listed ids.
> > 
> > Here is a log segment from start to stop of gdm.
> > 
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=3bae607fe4d5043b325b6339e3672c84
> > 
> > I hope someone can make sense of this because after this happened my
> > regular ttys won't scroll once they get to the last line and the only
> > way to solve this problem is to reboot the system.
> 
> This might be PAM related:
> 
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: initializing PAM;
>     service=gdm-password username=krnotley seat=seat0
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: Set PAM environment
>     variable: 'XDG_SEAT=seat0'
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: 1 new messages
>     received from PAM
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: received pam message
>     of type 1 with payload 'Password: '
>     gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): conversation
>     failed
>     gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): auth could
>     not identify password for [krnotley]
>     gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user
>     gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: PAM conversation
>     returning 19: Conversation error
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: uninitializing PAM
> 
> A failing conversation here looks odd to me; so, maybe this krontley
> user is bugged (preventing others from being listed?) or PAM itself
> isn't working properly at all?
> 
> Check the following link which can be a possible solution to this:
> 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd#systemd-logind_.26_pam_systemd
> 
> Other than that I see gnome-settings-daemon failing as it exits with
> code 1, but with no clear warning or error; from experience with that,
> that could be a reason to display or usage problems. A way to debug
> this could be to restart it in the shell to catch more output, if any;
> but I'm more suspicious about PAM so try to get PAM fixed first.
> 
> It could just as well be failing because you shutdown GDM; it might be
> more clear if you capture a log where you don't shutdown GDM, as then
> the last messages would be much more related to the problem at hand.

OK, it looks like I have the recomended item in the system-auth in
/etc/pam.d.  

But c because I am not very familiar with gdm, can you give me a key
sequence after gdm is launched to emter my user id and password?  I saw
no place to do this at all, just this strange list of some of my ids.
What I can do is to start gdm, not hit any keys and then send you the
log segment for that and see if it looks OK to you and then we can go
further.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Tom Wijsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 598 bytes --]

On Sun, 25 May 2014 05:26:26 -0400
covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> But c because I am not very familiar with gdm, can you give me a key
> sequence after gdm is launched to emter my user id and password?

Key sequence: [SHIFT+TAB][ENTER]username[ENTER]password[ENTER]

The first part selects "Not listed here?"; then it'll prompt for
username, after which it'll prompt for password.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 May 2014 05:26:26 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > But c because I am not very familiar with gdm, can you give me a key
> > sequence after gdm is launched to emter my user id and password?
> 
> Key sequence: [SHIFT+TAB][ENTER]username[ENTER]password[ENTER]
> 
> The first part selects "Not listed here?"; then it'll prompt for
> username, after which it'll prompt for password.

Thanks so much!


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:29:34 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > OK, here is what is happening -- if I do a startx & in any console
> > where I am logged in, I get a gnome session on that tty (wish it was
> > on the unused one), and I seem to be good  to go.  However when I try
> > to use gdm, I no longer get the oh no stuff, but it seems I get a
> > list of some of my userids, but I can't do anything, I can up arrow
> > to one of them, but hitting enter does nothing.  Also, tab does
> > nothing, nor do left/right arrow keys and strangely enough, my name
> > is not among the listed ids.
> > 
> > Here is a log segment from start to stop of gdm.
> > 
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=3bae607fe4d5043b325b6339e3672c84
> > 
> > I hope someone can make sense of this because after this happened my
> > regular ttys won't scroll once they get to the last line and the only
> > way to solve this problem is to reboot the system.
> 
> This might be PAM related:
> 
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: initializing PAM;
>     service=gdm-password username=krnotley seat=seat0
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: Set PAM environment
>     variable: 'XDG_SEAT=seat0'
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: 1 new messages
>     received from PAM
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: received pam message
>     of type 1 with payload 'Password: '
>     gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): conversation
>     failed
>     gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): auth could
>     not identify password for [krnotley]
>     gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user
>     gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: PAM conversation
>     returning 19: Conversation error
>     gdm-session-worker[4972]: <7>GdmSessionWorker: uninitializing PAM
> 
> A failing conversation here looks odd to me; so, maybe this krontley
> user is bugged (preventing others from being listed?) or PAM itself
> isn't working properly at all?
> 
> Check the following link which can be a possible solution to this:
> 
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd#systemd-logind_.26_pam_systemd
> 
> Other than that I see gnome-settings-daemon failing as it exits with
> code 1, but with no clear warning or error; from experience with that,
> that could be a reason to display or usage problems. A way to debug
> this could be to restart it in the shell to catch more output, if any;
> but I'm more suspicious about PAM so try to get PAM fixed first.
> 
> It could just as well be failing because you shutdown GDM; it might be
> more clear if you capture a log where you don't shutdown GDM, as then
> the last messages would be much more related to the problem at hand.
OK, here is a link to the messages without me doing anything in gdm at
all, just starting it.

https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=85cffe78261eacc915379ff5d5449d18

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Tom Wijsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1969 bytes --]

On Sun, 25 May 2014 05:38:08 -0400
covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> OK, here is a link to the messages without me doing anything in gdm at
> all, just starting it.
> 
> https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=85cffe78261eacc915379ff5d5449d18

There are some warnings and errors in this one, but I'm not quite sure
which one could be the problem; you can get them with a grep:

    grep -i '\(warning\|error\)' gnome-3.12.1-error2.txt | grep -v Xorg

1. The GetAll() and ServiceUnknown erros are often not problematic.

2. "Unable to register client with session manager" I get too; so, not a
problem.

3. There is "Gvc-WARNING **: Failed to connect context: OK" but that is
GNOME volume control if I understood correctly; so, also not a problem.

4. The Polkit Error "No permission to trigger offline updates" might be
more concerning; though, it should just affect the update part.

5. "JS ERROR: could not get remote objects for service
org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Smartcard" I think is due to a missing USE
flag option for the gnome-settings-daemon package; I think that's
supposed to work, so, I also don't see this as a problem.

6. "Unit dbus-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service failed to load" is
also something non-fatal; so, also not a problem.

TL;DR: One of these could be it, or not at all; I think the problem
you're having right now doesn't manifest itself as a warning or error,
but instead as an input / graphical problem.

Can you try a different version of GNOME? A newer might have fixed it.

If you need instructions on how to switch between specific version,
feel free to let me know. I'll try to figure out the sequence to switch
between users later today, when I can reboot my system.

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 May 2014 05:38:08 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > OK, here is a link to the messages without me doing anything in gdm at
> > all, just starting it.
> > 
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=85cffe78261eacc915379ff5d5449d18
> 
> There are some warnings and errors in this one, but I'm not quite sure
> which one could be the problem; you can get them with a grep:
> 
>     grep -i '\(warning\|error\)' gnome-3.12.1-error2.txt | grep -v Xorg
> 
> 1. The GetAll() and ServiceUnknown erros are often not problematic.
> 
> 2. "Unable to register client with session manager" I get too; so, not a
> problem.
> 
> 3. There is "Gvc-WARNING **: Failed to connect context: OK" but that is
> GNOME volume control if I understood correctly; so, also not a problem.
> 
> 4. The Polkit Error "No permission to trigger offline updates" might be
> more concerning; though, it should just affect the update part.
> 
> 5. "JS ERROR: could not get remote objects for service
> org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Smartcard" I think is due to a missing USE
> flag option for the gnome-settings-daemon package; I think that's
> supposed to work, so, I also don't see this as a problem.
> 
> 6. "Unit dbus-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service failed to load" is
> also something non-fatal; so, also not a problem.
> 
> TL;DR: One of these could be it, or not at all; I think the problem
> you're having right now doesn't manifest itself as a warning or error,
> but instead as an input / graphical problem.
> 
> Can you try a different version of GNOME? A newer might have fixed it.
> 
> If you need instructions on how to switch between specific version,
> feel free to let me know. I'll try to figure out the sequence to switch
> between users later today, when I can reboot my system.

You have been a big help -- I think I do have something running here, if
I could get orca to talk I would probably be good to go, but the
recomended keystroke super-alt-s does not work.    hmmm, I was just
poking and indeed orca is starting from gdm, but it seems not to have
the correct options.  The only thing I see is
/usr/share/gdm/greeter/autostart/orca-autostart.desktop but that one
does have the correct options, but orca  definitely has no speech, so I
think my problem will be solved if I can get orca to start talking
correctly.  Now once I login orca does start talking, so its only with
the gdm that it does not work, so we are very nearly there.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 May 2014 05:38:08 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > OK, here is a link to the messages without me doing anything in gdm at
> > all, just starting it.
> > 
> > https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=85cffe78261eacc915379ff5d5449d18
> 
> There are some warnings and errors in this one, but I'm not quite sure
> which one could be the problem; you can get them with a grep:
> 
>     grep -i '\(warning\|error\)' gnome-3.12.1-error2.txt | grep -v Xorg
> 
> 1. The GetAll() and ServiceUnknown erros are often not problematic.
> 
> 2. "Unable to register client with session manager" I get too; so, not a
> problem.
> 
> 3. There is "Gvc-WARNING **: Failed to connect context: OK" but that is
> GNOME volume control if I understood correctly; so, also not a problem.
> 
> 4. The Polkit Error "No permission to trigger offline updates" might be
> more concerning; though, it should just affect the update part.
> 
> 5. "JS ERROR: could not get remote objects for service
> org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Smartcard" I think is due to a missing USE
> flag option for the gnome-settings-daemon package; I think that's
> supposed to work, so, I also don't see this as a problem.
> 
> 6. "Unit dbus-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service failed to load" is
> also something non-fatal; so, also not a problem.
> 
> TL;DR: One of these could be it, or not at all; I think the problem
> you're having right now doesn't manifest itself as a warning or error,
> but instead as an input / graphical problem.
> 
> Can you try a different version of GNOME? A newer might have fixed it.
> 
> If you need instructions on how to switch between specific version,
> feel free to let me know. I'll try to figure out the sequence to switch
> between users later today, when I can reboot my system.
> 
> -- 
> With kind regards,
> 
> Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
> Gentoo Developer
> 
> E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org

More information, I am not sure if the autostart stuff works at all for
orca, but definitely if I hit super-alt-s it does start, but speech is
not there, but I can see the process, but I will play some more.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Tom Wijsman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 890 bytes --]

On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:02:49 -0400
covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> More information, I am not sure if the autostart stuff works at all
> for orca, but definitely if I hit super-alt-s it does start, but
> speech is not there, but I can see the process, but I will play some
> more.

Not sure if it needs it; but you might need app-accessibility/festival
for this to work, as well as set up the daemon (systemctl start/enable).

IIRC there are segfaults about that in your log; they are there by
default, since festival is an optional run-time dependency, but GNOME
tries to initialize it regardless of whether you have it or not.

(Festival is a Text to Speech engine)

-- 
With kind regards,

Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer

E-mail address  : TomWij@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key  : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2  ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[covici]

Tom Wijsman <TomWij@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:02:49 -0400
> covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > More information, I am not sure if the autostart stuff works at all
> > for orca, but definitely if I hit super-alt-s it does start, but
> > speech is not there, but I can see the process, but I will play some
> > more.
> 
> Not sure if it needs it; but you might need app-accessibility/festival
> for this to work, as well as set up the daemon (systemctl start/enable).
> 
> IIRC there are segfaults about that in your log; they are there by
> default, since festival is an optional run-time dependency, but GNOME
> tries to initialize it regardless of whether you have it or not.
> 
> (Festival is a Text to Speech engine)

Orca no longer uses festival, it uses speech-dispatcher.  I may have
festival installed, but it may be old or something.  My problem seems to
be that  orca speech does not work while starting from gdm, but works
from a regular gnome session using my regular user.  I think we are down
to something like that now.  I will check on the orca list and see if
they can tell me anything as well.



-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome

[Marc Stürmer]

Am 23.05.2014 21:50, schrieb covici@ccs.covici.com:

> I am open to suggestions here, and I have a log segment I can put
> somewhere to illustrage the "oh no" problem, but I am getting tired of
> the mess and if I can find something which works with orca I will do
> that instead.

Gentoo is all about havinge the freedom of choice, Larry the cow said.

If GNOME and systemd is not going to work for you at all, you can still 
switch back to OpenRC and e.g. try the MATE desktop environment instead, 
which is init-system agnostic and does not depend on systemd. It works 
fine with and without it.