From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9665158164 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:32:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 95752E0D12; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:32:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DAB4E0AE5 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2024 02:32:15 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <279404c9-3715-4776-8842-a524f48e6584@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2024 12:32:10 +1000 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate hard drives with dual actuators. To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Matt Jolly Autocrypt: addr=kangie@gentoo.org; keydata= xsFNBF6BjksBEAC1QaqF3zKOgdunRhkt9nXkdlsL1sriTBk3WSy4De6wYLjiSofGRJY5pAiH EnlD/oW+sxDQ1DQQ3jNW/xlLUKFKYRnWhmkUv7iy0VDFrdj3mZic1pWr5a+sFX9DZNdYxLaa RIVgkstsLbf0ks5EvIqk5d7Ty8B48CgZZL7RXpAP7xrOgmat+JXNovX4djPW7HyNfblcAbzj tsLcQf7/4Q0LfK7wW3MVJmpmNK7dSKKaWgSXY7IICird0tNMF41vuMRJIta0NtIARq+AjCxV 0iEb5odYIbrbamCpzhupJM8M5LPZkbQERIF+OTzGiXhlGVloxlB+vpTzv2oY+fQkLBSSL+NS P2Pv01exA+ezA+5r+KUClA7qUnC8UriwixjJuWfoe03sYRPb91z4nlBKiCP6+jcJpS4+KsgT +//r2PdHBQDC4kVimjWDfbfXoVUhtxbQ3t/Y1vro5WQvOsgNl53hWcuHd1O+zPS1d7x5xj7a otyLJbDwtNDtApHxNYld/w/uj0QpIlz1hj9QX/NthYe6nHYgPVtEmAXjqtdIxrlS6Qx/Gaqf xVhaxtLJVDWqba4GsVA1xlFuQKJ+RTT9OXGhpQNkLPo7rt5FP3C/SUVJa3YewE3x8vmHvfoK PoKGA/wnBCVO68yQw5K3opb5DC4Z9tngrwGXyfhZzE9Uqk+wswARAQABzR5NYXR0IEpvbGx5 IDxrYW5naWVAZ2VudG9vLm9yZz7CwZQEEwEKAD4WIQTdt8K8F88DrbOPnBZQ7FSNUuBRwAUC ZccI4wIbAwUJC5i9UAULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAwIBAAIeBQIXgAAKCRBQ7FSNUuBRwCNuEACi 1C6XSSPWfFh/14Tn3TqseLvX0554tmsW7FoxEu1jGQIEA2f6rtmn6P2ZKCTmqxzUC0sb17TL 8/8sP7ignGJ3nuPgEczv/VeNQziMOmfxjf2VLk8pQ0seQbAwNMvrgjgcRhCdqwIlQKHURlzj qUbNvp7czV8FVd2qV3iLcf3i8VNbqfBffsTxeyhV88ks9FmbT8VcO2bV1Snl6LsG8u3QKme/ kCxg438w1IozYIGP/2M/rl7SUPhuat66mptm9009g8xnXgJBiwI39ZsDhJ8x8sSN2tF3prsG 2SvInhROv8FBmN/DbjfCda2I3hSoSLp5Q/+FeYNJflcBcuWmEU77KhqSBFJrdPZg6+aleQsL vI2WPvwKWZzveUMwbn1ahnwrfLIW2Ue0JMIR/nRXUy7d7ngx111P27si27n/XNrtzCqWQnj9 MpcZ+8GO670H5MR1iV0FEG4rz1iEcw/fNgFFrF0HRgHXrUzSx/aKQDjvDrnZBmslnLXQ8uJS pYUCCluOE7xX6D4R2+K4u7KsEWFlCqhTGAeOMZLY5avjhiQF9ZKtsDcVY3fZwrih+uWvvpPF zAKy3hiY+uC3HQqvJYQofogm1Ls/5WYZ9syBjKPdFnpsj33NTTmDDAz+yl+Y1Unp4iU/SnyR JXB2usTR8b1rMywp4YI9B8OBd+RkBOVIGc7BTQRegY5LARAAs/Hifx+R6ItN95PhwcsGr8/V q8dOqTbPd72/BppY8yeJZFRTl0n24ZVWXBJKBSnIfe8uFmNO/f58yY/MJ2ADF5Sqyn8V76Nb t2JS+dqxlnKxkjsXiKJhZiJ0Mp2+oGO1mBbJpjqWGWiVDBp0P0O4DX+ELWI/MfGiavLO8BXl vL2/qlT8we4obExgStAClKqjM9eIKFL93xPrgS8sFmAGSHC4e0wD9YjjxX4AkIdoJ1F2m47y 2QgGKj9w16sqZswt0XOa+TLNIMEgXH24m66kQHUxE1JZfFDWX5HmC2BRFEfIjaQHsDLYBTYJ 8vkIUR0uZm9I/TUnAQMrN20/y2cbFIUynsNKArg03ZpzCxegOxJSPIv6j97Hy4byDyu/Ybj4 Z8d9/buGHHjzwRLkszyKEYcSSRVvk7Z1kSsfya7OmO7RMJoRwLH/CSZUR23q4X/w8oUSUXl/ S8+avuji3eDGk1Fyr+UjRabXqRL63wghBS895JWYAQRGcDL0d2x/cJi+JACT5Mezchgj393n 43yOvVeVotHvbk0ez+YOJ/pUDBFVzD0FPBeS2YTKrWJXRlxtRTei4B6LzbMFddMYclFDjVqq WcW+1d9Ck0H3pIB9BkAOcyZ7OLMH4GFxwPmR0xILBTt8ZnBbKrKDHikVMJoP1f9oEJ2HuQHe 51/w75JFpUkAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQoAJgIbDBYhBN23wrwXzwOts4+cFlDsVI1S4FHABQJld9e9 BQkLmM9yAAoJEFDsVI1S4FHApS8P/2Dovmb516e0PcmYvVoN835cEBgUEQc0lnQAYuNRIPgI CMfNfeZTRdANzyPYYdp+VQCzj95mUt4qlY0PkEGOR1b+2bjeyqp/zAHQShft7FHpsgeRObaW lKE6q9xwUGsOoOcBsWZiwd4xvalIaBG6uczlTrSGJycTF21c35pP6o/eiQs2d/qIVBUMdAtw kefO+pYds1YoyNW2YxGLThWAqNYoThGFsfOqrvLR2HWOcFeneR+PXx2loGdrHE/D6QXpVXxk qRNPig8E68gAVX7q8eRr5+bkJBrG2QvVsc0opiW6AljCJC0gJt5nuHKOObDAmoGx2PuRppT4 +wGd1yCElUZ602Opuf2gqS2nxSypf568EIcoSMEzbJFLrAoy3MReTMoltAJVJU8sA9OXYSOg AjHg7aU/nmO8KFHIZMiW24XJ577iU48UV+u8Rpmv4y16uAhp8AI4wvkk6xa5tNcCWU1Ati6Y yrdk2hf9dD29ePUkHKKSfbewr+qZ9dRL1dUXsaGa64oOXmUALxGNNzj7V828PbWa16x3JbYi gwBNqcgATaAZgDrXMV9ynB4aU1eSNNs/1R0Ic6B7c9yWaI568V7XKldus1QclpELQ4Lu+r/F H065qJMw4LqNs4gEDgd3JzNiNC0Jy+I8mD73YSeo87mE1KOCY0f9DNaBJ+v32E+Z In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 28df3e1c-f90d-4707-829e-5e59ef26afbf X-Archives-Hash: 27584cc7bf64d7f443675e4f30e44d15 Hi, > LTO is pretty much the only sensible choice these days as I understand > it. That's really the case, for bulk storage of any type you need to be able to tier a lot of it offsite/offline. I'm responsible for a tape library with a robot arm and about 13 drives raging from LTO7 through to LTO9. > I've looked into it for backup but you need to store a LOT of > data for it to make sense. The issue is that the drives are just > super-expensive. You can get much older generation drives used for > reasonable prices, but then the tapes have a very low capacity but > they aren't that cheap, so your cost per TB is pretty high, and of > course you have the inconvenience of long backup times and lots of > tape changes. The 7s are on their way out atm, so I'd expect to start seeing more pop up for sale secondhand. If you're doing tape though, 3:2:1 still applies, and you also (ideally) want two different manufacturer drives writing to two different manufacturer tapes to mitigate against issues like 'oh I got a firmware update and my tape drive started writing garbage'. > The newer generation drives are very reasonable in > terms of cost per TB, but the drives themselves cost thousands of > dollars. Unless you're archiving hundreds of TB it is cheaper to just > buy lots of USB3 hard drives at $15/TB, and then you get the random IO > performance as a bonus. ... but you have to swap out hundreds of USB drives which, especially on the cheap side, are likely to be significantly less robust than tape carts over time. > The main downside to HDD at smaller scales is > that the drives themselves are more fragile, but that is mostly if > you're dropping them - in terms of storage conditions tape needs > better care than many appreciate for it to remain reliable. It's really all downsides at the home scale. Your best bet is often ensuring that you have an offsite (s3 + restic can be decent) backup of your essential data and otherwise assuming that everything else could be lost at any time and just not caring about it. Anecdotally rsync (or s3...) to a cheap Hetzner VPS can be cost effective for smaller datasets / backups. My 100T server at home though? If it dies I lose everything non-critical on it! Cheers, Matt