[gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Peter Humphrey]

Afternoon all,

I masked the latest version of plasma-meta, 5.18.5, when it appeared last 
week, because it insisted on installing network-manager, which I neither need 
nor want. Now I'm running an emerge -e @world, and portage insists on plasma-
meta-5.18.5. (Why?) If I unmask it, network-manager insists on wifi ( wext ? 
Wifi ) even though there's no such hardware on this machine.

For the moment I've excluded plasma-meta from the -e @world, which seems to be 
doing the job.

Is this going to be policy in future? Bloat the machine up with bells and 
whistles that are unwanted, and even actively disliked. Already I've been 
obliged to install encryption and LVM, neither of which I want; where is it 
going to end?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[tastytea]

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On 2020-05-30 18:44+0100 Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> Afternoon all,
> 
> I masked the latest version of plasma-meta, 5.18.5, when it appeared
> last week, because it insisted on installing network-manager, which I
> neither need nor want. Now I'm running an emerge -e @world, and
> portage insists on plasma- meta-5.18.5. (Why?) If I unmask it,
> network-manager insists on wifi ( wext ? Wifi ) even though there's
> no such hardware on this machine.

You need to explicitly disable wext too, it is on by default.

Kind regards, tastytea

-- 
Get my PGP key with `gpg --locate-keys tastytea@tastytea.de` or at
<https://tastytea.de/tastytea.asc>.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 30 May 2020 18:44:02 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I masked the latest version of plasma-meta, 5.18.5, when it appeared
> last week, because it insisted on installing network-manager, which I
> neither need nor want. Now I'm running an emerge -e @world, and portage
> insists on plasma- meta-5.18.5. (Why?) If I unmask it, network-manager
> insists on wifi ( wext ? Wifi ) even though there's no such hardware on
> this machine.
> 
> For the moment I've excluded plasma-meta from the -e @world, which
> seems to be doing the job.

The point of meta packages is that they install a whole set of stuff, in
this case " Merge this to pull in all Plasma 5 packages". If you don't
want the kitchen sink, don't use meta packages. I have a kde set in
/etc/portage/sets that includes just what I want. As a result I have a
decent KDE desktop but without needing networkmanager, or any of the PIM
stuff.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Hey, where are you going?

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[gentoo-user] Re: Have I to install wifi now?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2020-05-30, Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> I masked the latest version of plasma-meta, 5.18.5, [...]

> Is this going to be policy in future? Bloat the machine up with bells and 
> whistles that are unwanted, and even actively disliked. Already I've been 
> obliged to install encryption and LVM, neither of which I want; where is it 
> going to end?

Running Openbox instead of Plasma?

I had a hard enough time preventing XFCE from installing tons of stuff
I didn't wan't.  Gnome and KDE desktops are so far beyond the pale it
takes OTH radar to find them.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Have I to install wifi now?

[Mark Knecht]

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On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:21 AM Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On 2020-05-30, Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I masked the latest version of plasma-meta, 5.18.5, [...]
>
> > Is this going to be policy in future? Bloat the machine up with bells
and
> > whistles that are unwanted, and even actively disliked. Already I've
been
> > obliged to install encryption and LVM, neither of which I want; where
is it
> > going to end?
>
> Running Openbox instead of Plasma?
>
> I had a hard enough time preventing XFCE from installing tons of stuff
> I didn't wan't.  Gnome and KDE desktops are so far beyond the pale it
> takes OTH radar to find them.
>
> --
> Grant

And yet a week ago this guy put out a small test of XFCE vs KDE resource
usage and KDE came out fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrvJOXypAbk

Just a different POV,
Mark

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Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday, 30 May 2020 19:08:13 BST Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 30 May 2020 18:44:02 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > I masked the latest version of plasma-meta, 5.18.5, when it appeared
> > last week, because it insisted on installing network-manager, which I
> > neither need nor want. Now I'm running an emerge -e @world, and portage
> > insists on plasma- meta-5.18.5. (Why?) If I unmask it, network-manager
> > insists on wifi ( wext ? Wifi ) even though there's no such hardware on
> > this machine.
> > 
> > For the moment I've excluded plasma-meta from the -e @world, which
> > seems to be doing the job.
> 
> The point of meta packages is that they install a whole set of stuff, in
> this case "Merge this to pull in all Plasma 5 packages". If you don't want
> the kitchen sink, don't use meta packages. I have a kde set in /etc/
> portage/sets that includes just what I want. As a result I have a decent KDE
> desktop but without needing networkmanager, or any of the PIM stuff.

I tried doing that some time ago. I got so heavily bogged down in a dependency 
mire that I gave up. You wouldn't like to show your set, would you? Please? :)

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 30 May 2020 22:46:18 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > The point of meta packages is that they install a whole set of stuff,
> > in this case "Merge this to pull in all Plasma 5 packages". If you
> > don't want the kitchen sink, don't use meta packages. I have a kde
> > set in /etc/ portage/sets that includes just what I want. As a result
> > I have a decent KDE desktop but without needing networkmanager, or
> > any of the PIM stuff.  
> 
> I tried doing that some time ago. I got so heavily bogged down in a
> dependency mire that I gave up. You wouldn't like to show your set,
> would you? Please? :)
> 
Here you go. I make no claims as to its suitability, or even uptodatedness

kde-plasma/khotkeys
kde-apps/ark
kde-apps/dolphin
kde-apps/filelight
kde-apps/kamera
kde-apps/kate
kde-apps/kcalc
kde-apps/kdenetwork-filesharing
kde-apps/kdialog
kde-apps/kgpg
kde-apps/kmix
kde-apps/kpat
kde-apps/krdc
kde-apps/krfb
kde-apps/spectacle
sci-astronomy/kstars
kde-apps/ksudoku
kde-apps/ksystemlog
kde-apps/kteatime
kde-apps/kwalletmanager
kde-apps/okular
kde-apps/print-manager
kde-plasma/kinfocenter
kde-plasma/kmenuedit
kde-plasma/powerdevil
kde-apps/yakuake
kde-plasma/kdeplasma-addons
x11-misc/sddm
kde-plasma/plasma-desktop
kde-plasma/systemsettings
kde-plasma/sddm-kcm
kde-plasma/kde-gtk-config
kde-apps/konsole:5
kde-plasma/kscreen
kde-misc/krusader
kde-apps/keditbookmarks
media-sound/pavucontrol-qt



-- 
Neil Bothwick

Master of all I survey (at the moment, empty pizza boxes)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday, 30 May 2020 23:16:56 BST Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 30 May 2020 22:46:18 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > The point of meta packages is that they install a whole set of stuff,
> > > in this case "Merge this to pull in all Plasma 5 packages". If you
> > > don't want the kitchen sink, don't use meta packages. I have a kde
> > > set in /etc/ portage/sets that includes just what I want. As a result
> > > I have a decent KDE desktop but without needing networkmanager, or
> > > any of the PIM stuff.
> > 
> > I tried doing that some time ago. I got so heavily bogged down in a
> > dependency mire that I gave up. You wouldn't like to show your set,
> > would you? Please? :)
> 
> Here you go. I make no claims as to its suitability, or even uptodatedness

---8>

Many thanks. After writing that I had another go using a different approach, 
and it just fell into place. Combining your set and mine ought to give me a 
working system.

With such a complex, reticulated (I think that's the word) system as plasma, 
it's easier to subtract from a whole set than to build up from nothing.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Michael]

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On Saturday, 30 May 2020 23:34:30 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday, 30 May 2020 23:16:56 BST Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 May 2020 22:46:18 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > > The point of meta packages is that they install a whole set of stuff,
> > > > in this case "Merge this to pull in all Plasma 5 packages". If you
> > > > don't want the kitchen sink, don't use meta packages. I have a kde
> > > > set in /etc/ portage/sets that includes just what I want. As a result
> > > > I have a decent KDE desktop but without needing networkmanager, or
> > > > any of the PIM stuff.
> > > 
> > > I tried doing that some time ago. I got so heavily bogged down in a
> > > dependency mire that I gave up. You wouldn't like to show your set,
> > > would you? Please? :)
> > 
> > Here you go. I make no claims as to its suitability, or even uptodatedness
> 
> ---8>
> 
> Many thanks. After writing that I had another go using a different approach,
> and it just fell into place. Combining your set and mine ought to give me a
> working system.
> 
> With such a complex, reticulated (I think that's the word) system as plasma,
> it's easier to subtract from a whole set than to build up from nothing.

In a previous installation I used a similar approach, which soon became 
somewhat tiresome.  One package was retired, some other took its place and 
more than once I would end up tying up myself in knots, trying to change the 
list of individual packages and associated USE flags to allow portage to 
update my desktop without dragging in all sort of unpleasants.

In a more recent installation I followed a different route.  I installed 
selected meta-packages from the list at the bottom of this page:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE

but first I disabled some USE flags to avoid networkmanager:

kde-plasma/plasma-meta -networkmanager
kde-plasma/powerdevil -wireless

This is the plasma-meta flags I use now:

[I] kde-plasma/plasma-meta
     Available versions:  
     (5)
            5.18.5	[bluetooth +browser-integration crypt +desktop-portal 
discover +display-manager elogind grub gtk +handbook +kwallet +legacy-systray 
+networkmanager plymouth pulseaudio qrcode +sddm sdk systemd thunderbolt 
+wallpapers]	["?? ( elogind systemd )"]
     Installed versions:  5.18.5(5)(19:51:01 21/05/20)(bluetooth browser-
integration crypt desktop-portal display-manager elogind handbook kwallet 
legacy-systray sddm wallpapers -discover -grub -gtk -networkmanager -plymouth 
-pulseaudio -qrcode -sdk -systemd -thunderbolt)

Admittedly, like you I have also installed LVM which I don't want/need on its 
own.  It is pulled in by sys-fs/cryptsetup, needed by pmount, which I use and 
may want to use with encrypted filesystems in the future.  I'm not sure if 
ext4 fs encryption is mature enough presently and what it requires.  A project 
for a rainy day.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Saturday, 30 May 2020 23:34:30 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> On Saturday, 30 May 2020 23:16:56 BST Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 May 2020 22:46:18 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>>>> The point of meta packages is that they install a whole set of stuff,
>>>>> in this case "Merge this to pull in all Plasma 5 packages". If you
>>>>> don't want the kitchen sink, don't use meta packages. I have a kde
>>>>> set in /etc/ portage/sets that includes just what I want. As a result
>>>>> I have a decent KDE desktop but without needing networkmanager, or
>>>>> any of the PIM stuff.
>>>> I tried doing that some time ago. I got so heavily bogged down in a
>>>> dependency mire that I gave up. You wouldn't like to show your set,
>>>> would you? Please? :)
>>> Here you go. I make no claims as to its suitability, or even uptodatedness
>> ---8>
>>
>> Many thanks. After writing that I had another go using a different approach,
>> and it just fell into place. Combining your set and mine ought to give me a
>> working system.
>>
>> With such a complex, reticulated (I think that's the word) system as plasma,
>> it's easier to subtract from a whole set than to build up from nothing.
> In a previous installation I used a similar approach, which soon became 
> somewhat tiresome.  One package was retired, some other took its place and 
> more than once I would end up tying up myself in knots, trying to change the 
> list of individual packages and associated USE flags to allow portage to 
> update my desktop without dragging in all sort of unpleasants.
>
> In a more recent installation I followed a different route.  I installed 
> selected meta-packages from the list at the bottom of this page:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE
>
> but first I disabled some USE flags to avoid networkmanager:
>
> kde-plasma/plasma-meta -networkmanager
> kde-plasma/powerdevil -wireless
>
> This is the plasma-meta flags I use now:
>
> [I] kde-plasma/plasma-meta
>      Available versions:  
>      (5)
>             5.18.5	[bluetooth +browser-integration crypt +desktop-portal 
> discover +display-manager elogind grub gtk +handbook +kwallet +legacy-systray 
> +networkmanager plymouth pulseaudio qrcode +sddm sdk systemd thunderbolt 
> +wallpapers]	["?? ( elogind systemd )"]
>      Installed versions:  5.18.5(5)(19:51:01 21/05/20)(bluetooth browser-
> integration crypt desktop-portal display-manager elogind handbook kwallet 
> legacy-systray sddm wallpapers -discover -grub -gtk -networkmanager -plymouth 
> -pulseaudio -qrcode -sdk -systemd -thunderbolt)
>
> Admittedly, like you I have also installed LVM which I don't want/need on its 
> own.  It is pulled in by sys-fs/cryptsetup, needed by pmount, which I use and 
> may want to use with encrypted filesystems in the future.  I'm not sure if 
> ext4 fs encryption is mature enough presently and what it requires.  A project 
> for a rainy day.


I mostly use the meta packages but there was one that I only needed a
couple programs from.  I removed the meta package and installed the
programs I wanted.  It worked fine but it could be that I just picked a
couple packages that are easy.  Before that, I tried not using any meta
packages. That was a disaster.  Given my usage, I don't think the
benefit of not using meta packages would have saved me much if
anything.  It results in a larger world file, dependency problems when
upgrading plus having more packages to keep up with manually since I run
unstable on KDE plus a few other GUI programs. 

It would seem logical that not using meta package would result in a
leaner and easier to update system.  Thing is, in reality it isn't that
way.  Depending on what packages you pick to use but not part of the
meta package, it could create more work than it's worth. 

I to noticed the wireless package coming in.  I have a wireless router
but everything except my printer and cell phone is hard wired. My puter
itself has nothing wireless about it.  Still, it's easier to just
install it and let it sit there than it is to fight to keep it off. It
doesn't do anything, it isn't in my way or popping up annoying messages
or anything either.  I just let it go.  I guess I could disable some USE
flags but I doubt that would help reduce anything either. 

Basically, pick battles that are worth winning. ;-)  Sometimes even when
you win, you don't get anything for the win.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S. Video comparing KDE to other desktop was interesting.  Maybe KDE
is getting back to like it was when KDE3 was around.  I sorta miss those
days.  Neat desktop.  KDE4 sure had some growing pains. 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 31 May 2020 00:19:21 BST Michael wrote:

--->8

> Admittedly, like you I have also installed LVM which I don't want/need on
> its own.  It is pulled in by sys-fs/cryptsetup, needed by pmount, which I
> use and may want to use with encrypted filesystems in the future.  I'm not
> sure if ext4 fs encryption is mature enough presently and what it requires.
>  A project for a rainy day.

Cryptsetup is required by libblockdev here, and udisks in turn. Some time last 
year the blockdev devs found they could no longer do without a hard dependency 
on cryptsetup. I didn't dig into the detail; perhaps it was a fight like what 
Dale describes. We just have to accept it now, anyway.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[tastytea]

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On 2020-05-30 18:44+0100 Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> Afternoon all,
> 
> I masked the latest version of plasma-meta, 5.18.5, when it appeared
> last week, because it insisted on installing network-manager, […]

Setting USE="-networkmanager -wireless" in /etc/portage/make.conf should
fix that. Adding -wifi is probably a good idea too.

If it still is pulled in, please post the output of 
emerge --tree --pretend --verbose kde-plasma/plasma-meta

Kind regards, tastytea

-- 
Get my PGP key with `gpg --locate-keys tastytea@tastytea.de` or at
<https://tastytea.de/tastytea.asc>.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 31 May 2020 09:43:54 BST tastytea wrote:

> Setting USE="-networkmanager -wireless" in /etc/portage/make.conf should
> fix that. Adding -wifi is probably a good idea too.

I already had -wifi -wireless. I didn't know about a networkmanager USE flag - 
it doesn't appear in use.desc. Setting it as you say did the trick - thanks.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Ashley Dixon]

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On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 10:29:10AM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> I already had -wifi -wireless. I didn't know about a networkmanager USE flag - 
> it doesn't appear in use.desc. Setting it as you say did the trick - thanks.

Are you sure it doesn't appear in use.desc ? It does on my system; are you
looking in use.local.desc by mistake ?

        /var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles $ grep networkmanager use.desc
        networkmanager - Enable net-misc/networkmanager support

https://devmanual.gentoo.org/profiles/use.desc/index.html

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
DA96 D18A
8A7B B0D2
A30E BF25
F290 A8AA


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Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 31 May 2020 10:37:55 BST Ashley Dixon wrote:
> On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 10:29:10AM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > I already had -wifi -wireless. I didn't know about a networkmanager USE
> > flag - it doesn't appear in use.desc. Setting it as you say did the trick
> > - thanks.
> Are you sure it doesn't appear in use.desc ? It does on my system; are you
> looking in use.local.desc by mistake ?
> 
>         /var/db/repos/gentoo/profiles $ grep networkmanager use.desc
>         networkmanager - Enable net-misc/networkmanager support

You're right. My apologies; I'd omitted to update my short-cut script.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Have I to install wifi now?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 30 May 2020 23:34:30 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > Here you go. I make no claims as to its suitability, or even
> > uptodatedness  
> 
> ---8>  
> 
> Many thanks. After writing that I had another go using a different
> approach, and it just fell into place. Combining your set and mine
> ought to give me a working system.
> 
> With such a complex, reticulated (I think that's the word) system as
> plasma, it's easier to subtract from a whole set than to build up from
> nothing.

That's pretty much what I did, removed the meta pacjkages from @world,
ran a depclean -p, added what I needed to the set, rinse and repeat. Then
let rip with a real depclean.

Despite Michael's comment, I have found this requires minimal
intervention between releases.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

It is impossible to fully enjoy procrastination
unless one has plenty of work to do.

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