[gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Dale]

Howdy,

I'm curious.  I'm sure there are some older folks on here that have eyes
that are not in the best of shape.  Mine are not real good even with
glasses.  My question is, what font is the easiest to read for folks
with bad eyes?  In other words, for you folks who can't see good, what
font do you use? 

I'm just curious.  Just reply and let me know what you use.  I think I
need to change mine to something better. 

Thanks

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Sat, 17 May 2014, Dale wrote:
>I'm curious.  I'm sure there are some older folks on here that have eyes
>that are not in the best of shape.  Mine are not real good even with
>glasses.  My question is, what font is the easiest to read for folks
>with bad eyes?  In other words, for you folks who can't see good, what
>font do you use? 

Even though I can see well with glasses on (I'm quite nearsighted,
R:-5.0dpt, L:-6.5dpt) and I'm not even 40 yet ... (Font-) Readbility
on- and off-screen is some sort of a hobby and of concern of mine.

On screen or on paper? On screen, I use misc-fixed (gnu-unifont?) and
Verdana almost exclusively except for Window-Titles and the WMaker
App-menu (where I use Helvetica i.e. apparently LiberationSans (I
thought it was the URW variant Nimbus Sans(?))) as it runs less wide.

Misc-fixed has wonderfully unambiguous letter shapes, Verdana is
pretty good in that respect too.

The Linux text-console font is also very good.

Adjust font-sizes to your ability (might get tedious), though
experimenting with the screen's "DPI" might be a shortcut. Be wary of
anti-aliasing and sub-pixel-hinting. Test both _after_ you've chosen a
good font without them, if they help, esp. when tweaking
non-screen-optimized layouts, activate them, if the do not, leave them
off.

Do NOT use normal serif-fonts for on-screen reading (like Times,
Garamond etc.). Nor normal sans-serif ones (like Arial). Use those
fonts optimized for the screen. If you need to set something in a
specific font for printing, use misc-fixed/verdana for the typing (and
use styles/formats in e.g. oowriter), and change the font as late as
possible for final layout tweaks only.

Oh, and _very_ importantly: get a _GOOD_ matt monitor if you haven't
yet. You don't need a glaring shaving mirror on your desk ;) Any
reflection, even a matt one, distracts and "hurts" the eye, and clear
reflections like from glaring panels like the Apple ones are esp.
exhausting.

I've had the chance to use three 17" TFT side-by-side in twos

a) an el-cheapo LG TN (yikes! I got headachey after ~30min)
b) an not-quite-cheapo Samsung Syncmaster TN (weeeelll, endurable for
   a few hours, lots better than the LG)
c) an about twice as expensive EIZO S1721 PVA. I use that without
   ever getting headachey for as much as 36h. current uptime is
   ~22h :)

Also: always adjust the brightness to ambient light! And adjust the
ambient light at night[1]!

And with non-matt panels, you may have to turn up the brightness way
too far to be comfortable, to still be able to see anything on screen.

I'm using that EIZO now since early Apr. 2010, and still 35%-40%
brightness suffices (as my window a bit right of the monitor is facing
north, but there's a light-yellow colored house with a bright white
picket fence, so depending, a _lot_ of light is reflected, so much so
that it is blinding even when I'm not at the PC. It's esp. bugging,
when there are quick changes on a, say, typical april day (mid-lats of
the northern Hemisphere), one minute, the (reflected) sun glares at
you, the next a dark cloud makes it seem like dusk. And no, the "light
sensor" sadly does not seem to work.

On paper, I very much prefer classic serif-fonts, esp. Garamond and I
like the TeX fonts (Computer Modern/Latin Modern) quite much.

-dnh

[1] usually, I have a lamp at the side, barely lighting the table,
    but when I'm watching videos, I move the lamp lower, so it's only
    lighting the floor/low wall and gives a low ambient light. Very
    nice when watching "darkish" videos. Nicer than turning up the
    monitor brightness (even if I turn that up to 45% or even a bit
    more ;)

-- 
Idiot, n.:
        A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human
affairs has always been dominant and controlling.
                -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Philip Webb]

140517 Dale wrote:
> I'm sure there are some older folks on here that have eyes
> that are not in the best of shape. Mine are not real good even with glasses.
> What font is the easiest to read for folks with bad eyes?

New Century Schoolbook was designed for small children c 1910 :
my eyes are good enough with glasses, but its shapes are my favorite.
Perhaps it's what I learned to read with (I don't remember learning to read).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 17 May 2014 02:17:17 Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I'm curious.  I'm sure there are some older folks on here that have eyes
> that are not in the best of shape.  Mine are not real good even with
> glasses.  My question is, what font is the easiest to read for folks
> with bad eyes?  In other words, for you folks who can't see good, what
> font do you use?
> 
> I'm just curious.  Just reply and let me know what you use.  I think I
> need to change mine to something better.

I'm glad you asked, Dale. I've been meaning to go a-searching fonts for some 
time and now you've prompted me into it.

So far I've found these to be acceptable:

	Liberation Sans
	Bitstream Vera Sans
	Clockopia
	DejaVu Sans
	Droid Sans
	Free Sans
	Trebuchet MS
	URW Gothic L
	Verdana

That last one, I believe, was designed by M$ for use in web pages.

I'll spend some time with each of them and find which I like best. You'll 
notice that they're all sans-serif. That's because I believe serif fonts need 
a higher pixel density than most screens have, and that's why they work well 
when printed on paper but not here.

Hope that hasn't muddied the waters even more!

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[wabenbau]

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Am Samstag, 17.05.2014 um 02:17
schrieb Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>:

> Howdy,
> 
> I'm curious.  I'm sure there are some older folks on here that have
> eyes that are not in the best of shape.  Mine are not real good even
> with glasses.  My question is, what font is the easiest to read for
> folks with bad eyes?  In other words, for you folks who can't see
> good, what font do you use? 

My classes have a optical power of about 4-dioptre and I need a special
class for screen reading. I'm using XFCE as WM and these are my
settings:

General:	Terminus 14
XFCE panel:	Bitstream Vera Sans 11
Text Editor:	Bitstream Vera Sans Mono 14
E-Mail (Claws):	Bitstream Vera Sans Mono 17
		Bitstream Vera Sans Mono 11
		Terminus Bold 13
Hinting:	Full
Antialiasing:	Yes
My monitor:	1920x1200 83dpi 27" LCD Wide Gamut

For me it is also important, that the screen background is not too
bright and that the contrast of the text is high. So I modified a XFCE
theme for my requirements (see attached file).

regards

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Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 17 May 2014 13:21:08 David Haller wrote:

> The Linux text-console font is also very good.

Yes, except for one thing: the oblique stroke through the zero. That makes it 
almost indistinguishable from an 8, to my poor eyes (one acute myopia, the 
other even more acute astigmatism together with moderate myopia, and now both 
being destroyed slowly by glaucoma).

Some time ago I tried to find out where the VC font is defined, with a view to 
removing that oblique bar, but I ran out of steam before finding it. If anyone 
can shed any light on this I'd be grateful.

Oh, and Dale, so far I've come to like the Bitstream Vera Sans at size 14 for 
KMail text.

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Walter Dnes]

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 01:21:08PM +0200, David Haller wrote

> The Linux text-console font is also very good.

  I used to do email and various other stuff on a VGA2 screen (640x480).
There are 5 lat1 consolefonts...

/usr/share/consolefonts/lat1-08.psfu.gz
/usr/share/consolefonts/lat1-10.psfu.gz
/usr/share/consolefonts/lat1-12.psfu.gz
/usr/share/consolefonts/lat1-14.psfu.gz
/usr/share/consolefonts/lat1-16.psfu.gz

  They are all 8 pixels wide, giving 80 columns on a VGA screen.  At
640x400 consolemode, you got...

* lat1-08 (CGA-like) gave 80x50 (unreadable except on a large monitor)
* lat1-10 gave 80x40, which was nice
* lat1-12 gave 80x33
* lat1-14 (EGA-like) gave 80x28
* lat1-16 (VGA-like) gave 80x25

  At 640x480 consolemode...
* lat1-08 (CGA-like) gave 80x60 (unreadable except on a large monitor)
* lat1-10 gave 80x48, which is surprisingly much nicer than 80x50 above.
  Those 2 extra pixels made a world of difference
* lat1-12 gave 80x40
* lat1-14 (EGA-like) gave 80x34
* lat1-16 (VGA-like) gave 80x30

  Then video drivers came along that insisted on taking over text mode,
and running at native framebuffer resolution.  I have a 1280x800
notebook that would be perfectly legible with the screen kicked into
640x480 mode, and lat1-12 font selected.  Unfortunately, the Intel
driver takes over and 1280x800 pixels text mode is barely legible 160
columns x 50 rows.  On some machines, it was possible to override things
and force 640x480 mode in consolemode at bootup.  Unfortunately, that
forcing would also stick in X, where you do not want 640x480 pixels!!!

  The consolefont program can select any available font.  Question...
* Plan A) can I get 16-pixel wide lat1 consolefonts from somewhere?
* Plan B) is there free software around that can modify/tweak the
          regular fonts to double their width?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Sat, 17 May 2014, Walter Dnes wrote:
>On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 01:21:08PM +0200, David Haller wrote
>> The Linux text-console font is also very good.
>
>  I used to do email and various other stuff on a VGA2 screen (640x480).
>There are 5 lat1 consolefonts...
>
>/usr/share/consolefonts/lat1-08.psfu.gz
[..]
>/usr/share/consolefonts/lat1-16.psfu.gz
[..]
>  Then video drivers came along that insisted on taking over text mode,
>and running at native framebuffer resolution.  I have a 1280x800
>notebook that would be perfectly legible with the screen kicked into
>640x480 mode, and lat1-12 font selected.  Unfortunately, the Intel
>driver takes over and 1280x800 pixels text mode is barely legible 160
>columns x 50 rows.  On some machines, it was possible to override things
>and force 640x480 mode in consolemode at bootup.  Unfortunately, that
>forcing would also stick in X, where you do not want 640x480 pixels!!!

Hm. I've no idea about the intel-drivers, but nvidia plays nice with
"nomodeset" or rather, I just use "vga=normal" on the kernel
commandline. I do not have any graphics driver in the initrd, the
nvidia module is loaded only as X gets started.

Maybe that is the problem I have with newer driver versions (I use
295.49, any newer I tested just gives me a blank screen). I should
try using nvidiafb again.

>  The consolefont program can select any available font.  Question...
>* Plan A) can I get 16-pixel wide lat1 consolefonts from somewhere?

emerge terminus-font

might help. E.g.: setfont ter-132n. But that seems to need a
framebuffer, but you seem to have that ;)
I like default8x16 better though. At least at vga=normal which gives
me a nice 80x25 terminal ;)

>* Plan B) is there free software around that can modify/tweak the
>          regular fonts to double their width?

emerge psftools
man -k psf

HTH,
-dnh

-- 
An Emacs reference mug is what I want.  It would hold ten gallons of coffee.
              -- Steve VanDevender

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Sun, 18 May 2014, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>On Saturday 17 May 2014 13:21:08 David Haller wrote:
>> The Linux text-console font is also very good.
>Yes, except for one thing: the oblique stroke through the zero. That makes it 
>almost indistinguishable from an 8, to my poor eyes (one acute myopia, the 
>other even more acute astigmatism together with moderate myopia, and now both 
>being destroyed slowly by glaucoma).
>
>Some time ago I tried to find out where the VC font is defined, with
>a view to removing that oblique bar, but I ran out of steam before
>finding it. If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be grateful.

/usr/src/linux/drivers/video/console/font_*.c

e.g.: font_10x18.c

        /* 48 0x30 '0' */
        0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */
        0x0e, 0x00, /* 0000111000 */
        0x1f, 0x00, /* 0001111100 */
        0x23, 0x00, /* 0010001100 */
        0x61, 0x80, /* 0110000110 */
        0x63, 0x80, /* 011000@110 */
        0x65, 0x80, /* 01100@0110 */
        0x65, 0x80, /* 01100@0110 */
        0x69, 0x80, /* 0110@00110 */
        0x69, 0x80, /* 0110@00110 */
        0x71, 0x80, /* 011@000110 */
        0x61, 0x00, /* 0110000100 */
        0x31, 0x00, /* 0011000100 */
        0x3e, 0x00, /* 0011111000 */
        0x1c, 0x00, /* 0001110000 */
        0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */
        0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */
        0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */

There you have your "diagonal" (I marked i with "@" instead of "1").

Or it's the default8x16.psf[u][.gz] in /usr/share/kbd/consolefonts.

So, depending on which console-font you've chosen, edit the char of
the respective font and make a patch out of it (diff), so that you can
easily apply it to new kernels. Maybe make an overlay out of it ;)

I think, the kernel-builtin fonts are used until framebuffer and kbd
are loaded.

HTH,
-dnh

-- 
Math problems?  Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PNG MIMI type

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 04:43:31PM +0200, wabenbau@gmail.com wrote:

> My classes have a optical power of about 4-dioptre and I need a special
> class for screen reading. I'm using XFCE as WM and these are my
> settings:

OT, but SCNR: ;-)

Did you just expose yourself as an apple user, or why does your Claws
think that PNGs are of MIME "image/x-apple-ios-png"?
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

Baby to twin at the other breast, winking: “Bottoms up!?”

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Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 02:58:26PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday 17 May 2014 02:17:17 Dale wrote:
> > Howdy,
> > 
> > I'm curious.  I'm sure there are some older folks on here that have eyes
> > that are not in the best of shape.  Mine are not real good even with
> > glasses.  My question is, what font is the easiest to read for folks
> > with bad eyes?  In other words, for you folks who can't see good, what
> > font do you use?
> > […]
> So far I've found these to be acceptable:
> 
> 	Liberation Sans
> 	Bitstream Vera Sans
> 	Clockopia
> 	DejaVu Sans
> […]
> 	Verdana

For the record: DejaVu is practically the same as Bitstream Vera, but
with a much wider range of supported characters.
I suppose one of the reasons for their wide-spread use is (apart from
them being free) their high readability. Sans and serif are very similar
to another and do look nice.

> That last one, I believe, was designed by M$ for use in web pages.
> 
> I'll spend some time with each of them and find which I like best. You'll 
> notice that they're all sans-serif. That's because I believe serif fonts need 
> a higher pixel density than most screens have, and that's why they work well 
> when printed on paper but not here.

Serifs help the eye at staying on the line while perusing. We as Linux
users have the big advantage of the great font rendering engine (that
actually brought me to Linux in the first place many moons ago) which
can render such details beautifully, so we would notice them, but
without them distracting, even *if* they are a bit pixelated. (I switch
off the RGB subpixels rendering though because I don’t like the apparent
colour bleed.)
Serif fonts are designed to be used in longer texts. Thus they are a
suboptimal choice for UI elements, because those are usually rather
short.

Using hinting at full level might actually be a not-so-good idea,
because while it makes smaller fonts really crisp (filled pixel or no
filled pixel), it may lessen readability because
1) lines thickness can only vary by full pixels, making lines thinner
   than they actually are, especially on low-DPI screens.
2) the inter-letter spacing must be quantified in full pixels also.

So using half strength hinting might make the font look fuzzier on first
sight, but will improve reading flow because spacings are more even and
details can be perceived without poking out. And if you look from
farther away, it will look more natural.
The MS fonts have very detailed hinting information because they were
designed for screen use. That’s why they still look quite good with full
hinting on.


Another big advantage that we as Linuxlers have is that most GUIs will
scale nicely if we crank up the font size, as opposed to some commercial
OS I could mention. So Dale, since you are on KDE, use the freedom it
gives you (unlike some other DEs *cough*) and just crank up the sizes. ;)

Twiddling with DPI settings OTOH may be counterproductive. If you visit
a website that says: "font-size: 10pt", then the font will look the same
on *all* screens if their DPI is set to the actual value. If the DPI is
set to the same value for all, but they have *physically* different
pixel pitches, then the font will look different on each screen.


I’m not an old fart[TM] yet, so I can afford running a tiny terminus on
this 136 DPI laptop. ^^ However, when working in vim, I do use a colour
scheme similar to what wabenau describes in his mail: dark (but not
black) background with light (but not bright) text colours. For the
interested: that scheme is called Wombat:
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2465
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

It is in human’s nature to think reasonably and act illogically.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday 19 May 2014 12:29:09 David Haller wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2014, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Some time ago I tried to find out where the VC font is defined, with
> > a view to removing that oblique bar, but I ran out of steam before
> > finding it. If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be grateful.
> 
> /usr/src/linux/drivers/video/console/font_*.c
> 
> e.g.: font_10x18.c
> 
>         /* 48 0x30 '0' */
>         0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */
>         0x0e, 0x00, /* 0000111000 */
>         0x1f, 0x00, /* 0001111100 */
>         0x23, 0x00, /* 0010001100 */
>         0x61, 0x80, /* 0110000110 */
>         0x63, 0x80, /* 011000@110 */
>         0x65, 0x80, /* 01100@0110 */
>         0x65, 0x80, /* 01100@0110 */
>         0x69, 0x80, /* 0110@00110 */
>         0x69, 0x80, /* 0110@00110 */
>         0x71, 0x80, /* 011@000110 */
>         0x61, 0x00, /* 0110000100 */
>         0x31, 0x00, /* 0011000100 */
>         0x3e, 0x00, /* 0011111000 */
>         0x1c, 0x00, /* 0001110000 */
>         0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */
>         0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */
>         0x00, 0x00, /* 0000000000 */
> 
> There you have your "diagonal" (I marked i with "@" instead of "1").

Magic! Let me know when you're next in the Peak District and the drinks will 
be on me!

> Or it's the default8x16.psf[u][.gz] in /usr/share/kbd/consolefonts.
> 
> So, depending on which console-font you've chosen, edit the char of
> the respective font and make a patch out of it (diff), so that you can
> easily apply it to new kernels. Maybe make an overlay out of it ;)
> 
> I think, the kernel-builtin fonts are used until framebuffer and kbd
> are loaded.
> 
> HTH,
> -dnh

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Walter Dnes]

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:23:53PM +0200, David Haller wrote

> emerge terminus-font
> 
> might help. E.g.: setfont ter-132n. But that seems to need a
> framebuffer, but you seem to have that ;)
> I like default8x16 better though. At least at vga=normal which gives
> me a nice 80x25 terminal ;)

  I now have 80x25 consolemode on the notebook.  Thanks for that info.
My next goal is 80x40 etc.

> >* Plan B) is there free software around that can modify/tweak the
> >          regular fonts to double their width?
> 
> emerge psftools
> man -k psf

  Not really what I was looking for.  It simply converts between
different machine formats.  I went to the project homepage at
http://www.seasip.info/Unix/PSF/ looking for more info.  I noticed a
pointer to the PSF file format at...
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/kbd/font-formats-1.html   I'll take a
crack at writing a "consolefont magnify" utility.  What I want to do is
magnify lat1-08, lat1-10, lat1-12, lat1-14, and lat1-16 vertically and
horizontally.  The simplest approach will be to magnify by a factor of
2 or 3.  Since the fonts were originally for a 640 pixel-wide screen,
that would would work on my notebook (640 * 2 = 1280) and on my 24"
desktop monitor (640 * 3 = 1920).

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday 21 May 2014 02:22:21 Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:23:53PM +0200, David Haller wrote
> 
> > emerge terminus-font
> > 
> > might help. E.g.: setfont ter-132n. But that seems to need a
> > framebuffer, but you seem to have that ;)
> > I like default8x16 better though. At least at vga=normal which gives
> > me a nice 80x25 terminal ;)
> 
>   I now have 80x25 consolemode on the notebook.  Thanks for that info.
> My next goal is 80x40 etc.

My screen is 27" and 1920 x 1080, so I can't imagine what vga=normal would 
look like  :-)  Too big, anyway.

I've set consolefont="ter-124n" to give me a lovely VT screen. It does have a 
diagonal bar through the zero, though, as without it the zero and capital-O 
would be identical. At least at 12 x 24 I don't confuse 0 and 8.

Still hoping to find a font editor though, to replace that zero.

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Benjamin Lee]

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On Sat, 17 May 2014 02:17:17 -0500, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm just curious.  Just reply and let me know what you use.  I think I
> need to change mine to something better. 

For monospace, Source Code Pro [1] (media-fonts/source-pro).

For proportional, I prefer Helvetica (non-free) but among free options
Liberation Sans (media-fonts/liberation-fonts).

[1] http://blog.typekit.com/2012/09/24/source-code-pro/


-- 
Benjamin Lee
http://www.b1c1l1.com/

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Re: [gentoo-user] Fonts and bad eyes

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday 21 May 2014 10:28:58 I wrote:

> Still hoping to find a font editor though, to replace that zero.

Found one: http://sourceforge.net/projects/nafe/postdownload?source=dlp

I've used it to remove the oblique stroke from the zero character and slope 
its shoulders. The result's not very polished, but it'll do pro tem.

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: PNG MIMI type

[wabenbau]

Am Montag, 19.05.2014 um 13:52
schrieb Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7@gmx.de>:

> On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 04:43:31PM +0200, wabenbau@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > My classes have a optical power of about 4-dioptre and I need a
> > special class for screen reading. I'm using XFCE as WM and these
> > are my settings:
> 
> OT, but SCNR: ;-)
> 
> Did you just expose yourself as an apple user, or why does your Claws
> think that PNGs are of MIME "image/x-apple-ios-png"?

Damned, now everybody knows that I'm an Apple fanboy.

Just a joke. Fact is that I don't like apple at all. I really don't have
a clue why claws comes up with this idea.