[gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

I consider buying a new laptop in late 2014 ... taxes and stuff ...

I run 2 thinkpads here, each with 8 gigs of RAM and SSD inside:

 L520 and X220 -> both still with Intel Core i-(5|7)-2xxx inside.

So far OK, but not up2date.

Considering a budget of ~1000 EUR maximum (more based on reason) ... do
you have any recommendation from practical experience?

I once had a Macbook Air (1st generation) with gentoo on it, it was nice
because it was slim and lightweight ... a similar device costs 2000
bucks up when I buy it new (Lenovo Thinkpads X... or X1 Carbon).

What I want to avoid is spending quite some money and getting basically
the same weight/size I already know with minor performance gain (which I
get used to within days anyway).

opinions appreciated!

:-)

Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:45:05 PM Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> I consider buying a new laptop in late 2014 ... taxes and stuff ...
> 
> I run 2 thinkpads here, each with 8 gigs of RAM and SSD inside:
> 
>  L520 and X220 -> both still with Intel Core i-(5|7)-2xxx inside.
> 
> So far OK, but not up2date.
> 
> Considering a budget of ~1000 EUR maximum (more based on reason) ... do
> you have any recommendation from practical experience?
> 
> I once had a Macbook Air (1st generation) with gentoo on it, it was nice
> because it was slim and lightweight ... a similar device costs 2000
> bucks up when I buy it new (Lenovo Thinkpads X... or X1 Carbon).
> 
> What I want to avoid is spending quite some money and getting basically
> the same weight/size I already know with minor performance gain (which I
> get used to within days anyway).
> 
> opinions appreciated!
> 
> :-)
> 
> Stefan

Stefan,

Instead of going with the "big brands", you could also go for one of the 
lesser known brands.

I myself am using a laptop from BTO (www.bto.eu). They actually are based near 
my home, which saved me the shipping costs.
With this company (and similar ones like it), you have a lot of freedom when 
deciding on what ends up inside it. 
A lot more then when looking for laptops from the "big brands". And, they're 
also cheaper.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Sid S]

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In a similar vein, I would suggest https://system76.com/laptops. I found
them after I purchased my laptop. Had I known, I likely would have gone
with them and purchased their most expensive model.

For the most part, what you want is relatively hard to get with a typical
consumer computer. They've gone for minimization to the point where they
can't offer (or don't want to offer) the options that the majority of
people would expect to exist.

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 3:08 AM, J. Roeleveld <joost@antarean.org> wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:45:05 PM Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> > I consider buying a new laptop in late 2014 ... taxes and stuff ...
> >
> > I run 2 thinkpads here, each with 8 gigs of RAM and SSD inside:
> >
> >  L520 and X220 -> both still with Intel Core i-(5|7)-2xxx inside.
> >
> > So far OK, but not up2date.
> >
> > Considering a budget of ~1000 EUR maximum (more based on reason) ... do
> > you have any recommendation from practical experience?
> >
> > I once had a Macbook Air (1st generation) with gentoo on it, it was nice
> > because it was slim and lightweight ... a similar device costs 2000
> > bucks up when I buy it new (Lenovo Thinkpads X... or X1 Carbon).
> >
> > What I want to avoid is spending quite some money and getting basically
> > the same weight/size I already know with minor performance gain (which I
> > get used to within days anyway).
> >
> > opinions appreciated!
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Stefan
>
> Stefan,
>
> Instead of going with the "big brands", you could also go for one of the
> lesser known brands.
>
> I myself am using a laptop from BTO (www.bto.eu). They actually are based
> near
> my home, which saved me the shipping costs.
> With this company (and similar ones like it), you have a lot of freedom
> when
> deciding on what ends up inside it.
> A lot more then when looking for laptops from the "big brands". And,
> they're
> also cheaper.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 20.11.2014 um 15:37 schrieb Sid S:
> In a similar vein, I would suggest https://system76.com/laptops. I found
> them after I purchased my laptop. Had I known, I likely would have gone
> with them and purchased their most expensive model.
> 
> For the most part, what you want is relatively hard to get with a typical
> consumer computer. They've gone for minimization to the point where they
> can't offer (or don't want to offer) the options that the majority of
> people would expect to exist.


Interesting. I ask for thinkpads and get two answers pointing to other
brands  ;-)

I will have a look, thanks.

But I like that trackpoint ....

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[J. Roeleveld]

On 20 November 2014 19:19:34 CET, "Stefan G. Weichinger" <lists@xunil.at> wrote:
>Am 20.11.2014 um 15:37 schrieb Sid S:
>> In a similar vein, I would suggest https://system76.com/laptops. I
>found
>> them after I purchased my laptop. Had I known, I likely would have
>gone
>> with them and purchased their most expensive model.
>> 
>> For the most part, what you want is relatively hard to get with a
>typical
>> consumer computer. They've gone for minimization to the point where
>they
>> can't offer (or don't want to offer) the options that the majority of
>> people would expect to exist.
>
>
>Interesting. I ask for thinkpads and get two answers pointing to other
>brands  ;-)
>
>I will have a look, thanks.
>
>But I like that trackpoint ....

That's because we've given up hoping for a decent price-quality-spec combination from the "big brands".

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[thegeezer]

On 20/11/14 18:19, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> But I like that trackpoint .... 
yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
prerequisite. 
does anyone know if you can get usb keyboards that have the trackpoint
style mini-joystick in the middle of them ?

the other big thing with the thinkpads used to be the keyboards. the
x201 had a great almost totally full size keyboard, but they are
increasingly becoming a thing of a bygone era with apple style
calculator buttons that have nothing like the tactile response they used
to have. as lenovo are moving away from these big-key style keyboards,
does anyone have any recommendations of a laptop supplier that is
starting to use them ?

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Daniel Frey]

On 11/20/2014 11:16 AM, thegeezer wrote:
> yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
> navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
> prerequisite. 
> does anyone know if you can get usb keyboards that have the trackpoint
> style mini-joystick in the middle of them ?

Yep:
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0B47190/460/60AC6A0372B14F5BA7B12F1FF88E33C7

I almost bought this one but I wanted a usb port on my keyboard itself
for my mouse, IIRC this one didn't have that.

I have used a lenovo keyboard with it, I liked it, just wish it had a
USB port for the mouse.


> the other big thing with the thinkpads used to be the keyboards. the
> x201 had a great almost totally full size keyboard, but they are
> increasingly becoming a thing of a bygone era with apple style
> calculator buttons that have nothing like the tactile response they used
> to have. as lenovo are moving away from these big-key style keyboards,
> does anyone have any recommendations of a laptop supplier that is
> starting to use them ?
> 

I've been looking around too and it seems like everyone's doing the
chicklet keyboards. I haven't looked that hard, but almost every laptop
I've found seems to have the goofy keyboards.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 20.11.2014 um 21:16 schrieb Daniel Frey:
> On 11/20/2014 11:16 AM, thegeezer wrote:
>> yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
>> navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
>> prerequisite. 
>> does anyone know if you can get usb keyboards that have the trackpoint
>> style mini-joystick in the middle of them ?
> 
> Yep:
> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0B47190/460/60AC6A0372B14F5BA7B12F1FF88E33C7
> 
> I almost bought this one but I wanted a usb port on my keyboard itself
> for my mouse, IIRC this one didn't have that.
> 
> I have used a lenovo keyboard with it, I liked it, just wish it had a
> USB port for the mouse.

I am using a Lenovo keyboard (USB Keyboard SK-8815) for my main
workstation for years now. Still working fine. It does not bring a
trackpoint but has 2 USB ports .... and some special function keys I
never managed to get working ... maybe I should take another approach as
it might be supported for months and years now.

Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Sid S]

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I will agree with the suggestion that Asus laptop keyboards are decent. On
the higher end models the keys have a surprising amount of travel. As for
keyboards with a trackpoint, I would suggest the TEX Yoda Trackpoint and
the Miniguru keyboards. Sadly, neither is available with any regularity
(the second seems to have had a prototype run but is currently "in
design"), and I believe the mouse is different from a traditional
trackpoint by virtue of patents.

I became very accustomed to the trackpoint on a previous laptop I had.
Since they are so rare, I've turned to tiling window managers to remove my
need of mouse.

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Stefan G. Weichinger <lists@xunil.at>
wrote:

> Am 20.11.2014 um 21:16 schrieb Daniel Frey:
> > On 11/20/2014 11:16 AM, thegeezer wrote:
> >> yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
> >> navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
> >> prerequisite.
> >> does anyone know if you can get usb keyboards that have the trackpoint
> >> style mini-joystick in the middle of them ?
> >
> > Yep:
> >
> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0B47190/460/60AC6A0372B14F5BA7B12F1FF88E33C7
> >
> > I almost bought this one but I wanted a usb port on my keyboard itself
> > for my mouse, IIRC this one didn't have that.
> >
> > I have used a lenovo keyboard with it, I liked it, just wish it had a
> > USB port for the mouse.
>
> I am using a Lenovo keyboard (USB Keyboard SK-8815) for my main
> workstation for years now. Still working fine. It does not bring a
> trackpoint but has 2 USB ports .... and some special function keys I
> never managed to get working ... maybe I should take another approach as
> it might be supported for months and years now.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Peter Weilbacher]

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014, thegeezer wrote:

> On 20/11/14 18:19, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> > But I like that trackpoint ....
> yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
> navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
> prerequisite.

Just that it's pretty useless with the touchpad below that's now missing
real mouse buttons to use together with the trackpoint.
At least I haven't managed to configure it in a useful way for my T540p.
   P.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 21.11.2014 um 20:06 schrieb Peter Weilbacher:

>> On 20/11/14 18:19, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
>>> But I like that trackpoint ....
>> yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
>> navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
>> prerequisite.
> 
> Just that it's pretty useless with the touchpad below that's now missing
> real mouse buttons to use together with the trackpoint.
> At least I haven't managed to configure it in a useful way for my T540p.

ah, ok, my 2 pads still have "real" buttons.
I will consider this if I really get into buying new stuff.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday, November 21, 2014 08:06:25 PM Peter Weilbacher wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Nov 2014, thegeezer wrote:
> > On 20/11/14 18:19, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> > > But I like that trackpoint ....
> > 
> > yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
> > navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
> > prerequisite.
> 
> Just that it's pretty useless with the touchpad below that's now missing
> real mouse buttons to use together with the trackpoint.
> At least I haven't managed to configure it in a useful way for my T540p.
>    P.

I just came across a possible solution for this, while looking for something 
semi-related:
http://www.librador.com/2014/04/10/Configure-Lenovo-Thinkpad-X240-Trackpad-in-Linux-Mint/

Maybe this works for you?

--
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Grant Edwards]

On 2014-11-20, Stefan G. Weichinger <lists@xunil.at> wrote:
> Am 20.11.2014 um 15:37 schrieb Sid S:
>> In a similar vein, I would suggest https://system76.com/laptops. I found
>> them after I purchased my laptop. Had I known, I likely would have gone
>> with them and purchased their most expensive model.
>> 
>> For the most part, what you want is relatively hard to get with a typical
>> consumer computer. They've gone for minimization to the point where they
>> can't offer (or don't want to offer) the options that the majority of
>> people would expect to exist.
>
>
> Interesting. I ask for thinkpads and get two answers pointing to other
> brands  ;-)

You did not ask for/about thinkpads.

You said you were currently running thinkpads.

You did not say that you wanted to replace them with new thinkpads,
just how much you were thinking of spending on replacements.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! LBJ, LBJ, how many
                                  at               JOKES did you tell today??!
                              gmail.com            

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 21.11.2014 um 18:25 schrieb Grant Edwards:

>> Interesting. I ask for thinkpads and get two answers pointing to other
>> brands  ;-)
> 
> You did not ask for/about thinkpads.
> 
> You said you were currently running thinkpads.
> 
> You did not say that you wanted to replace them with new thinkpads,
> just how much you were thinking of spending on replacements.

might be ;-)
Thanks for this logical analysis ... ;-)

The subject says "new thinkpad" ... but, anyway ;-)

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new thinkpad with Gentoo

[wireless]

On 11/20/14 15:20, Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 11/20/2014 11:16 AM, thegeezer wrote:
>> yeah at first it's odd, but then when you start getting used to
>> navigating without removing hands from keyboard it does become almost a
>> prerequisite.
>> does anyone know if you can get usb keyboards that have the trackpoint
>> style mini-joystick in the middle of them ?

The trackball is still one of my favorite features on laptops of all 
time. It's a shame they do not license that trackball to other manufactures.



>> the other big thing with the thinkpads used to be the keyboards. the
>> x201 had a great almost totally full size keyboard, but they are
>> increasingly becoming a thing of a bygone era with apple style
>> calculator buttons that have nothing like the tactile response they used
>> to have. as lenovo are moving away from these big-key style keyboards,
>> does anyone have any recommendations of a laptop supplier that is
>> starting to use them ?
>>
>
> I've been looking around too and it seems like everyone's doing the
> chicklet keyboards. I haven't looked that hard, but almost every laptop
> I've found seems to have the goofy keyboards.

I not sure how to "categorize" keyboards, but I purchased an Asus 
ZenBook a year ago, and it has the nicest feel I have ever experienced
of any keyboard. Very thing and reliable. And Asus has a direct warranty 
support for one year, without any additional costs. It is
simple a very wonderful lappy. ymmv.


Also, take a look at aarch64 (arm) based tablets with keyboards as 
removable half of the device. Very cool, but make sure you get the
ports you want/need. This segment of the market has new entries everyday 
so you'll have to google for a good  and reliable model.
Sven & company should be adding that new 64 bit arm (amd and others) 
architecture support to the gentoo (handbook) docs soon. LXQT has 
requested arm flags in BGO, so all that new arm_stuffage should be 
permeating the gentoo very soon.

Lastly, "gentroid" is a new player in this space, depending on how 
divergent you are willing to go. [1]


hth,
James

[1] https://code.google.com/p/gentroid/

[2] http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/embedded/287663