[gentoo-user]

[gentoo-user]

[covici]

Hi.  I am looking at grub2 as a possible boot loader -- I have been
using lilo for years, but one thing puzzles me -- there seems to be no
grub command, I don't see it in the list of files and typing grub does
nothing.  I have not run grub-install yet, but I would like to know what
is happening.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user]

[Alan McKinnon]

On 15/06/2016 13:50, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Hi.  I am looking at grub2 as a possible boot loader -- I have been
> using lilo for years, but one thing puzzles me -- there seems to be no
> grub command, I don't see it in the list of files and typing grub does
> nothing.  I have not run grub-install yet, but I would like to know what
> is happening.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>


There has never been a command called grub in any version as it's not 
lilo. There is simply no commonality between lilo and grub, so I suggest 
you forget everything you know about lilo when studying grub.

You ask a very basic question. That is best answered by finding articles 
on grub on gentoo wiki, reading them then coming back with more specific 
questions if any

Alan

Re: [gentoo-user]

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 07:50:30 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> Hi.  I am looking at grub2 as a possible boot loader -- I have been
> using lilo for years, but one thing puzzles me -- there seems to be no
> grub command, I don't see it in the list of files and typing grub does
> nothing.  I have not run grub-install yet, but I would like to know what
> is happening.

The grub code, as in the bootloader, is embedded into the MBR when you
run grub-install. The various commands installed with grub are used to
manage the bootloader and its files, but there is no single grub command.

The GRUB manual explains it all:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Access denied--nah nah na nah nah!

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 15/06/2016 13:50, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Hi.  I am looking at grub2 as a possible boot loader -- I have been
> > using lilo for years, but one thing puzzles me -- there seems to be no
> > grub command, I don't see it in the list of files and typing grub does
> > nothing.  I have not run grub-install yet, but I would like to know what
> > is happening.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> >
> 
> 
> There has never been a command called grub in any version as it's not
> lilo. There is simply no commonality between lilo and grub, so I
> suggest you forget everything you know about lilo when studying grub.
> 
> You ask a very basic question. That is best answered by finding
> articles on grub on gentoo wiki, reading them then coming back with
> more specific questions if any
> 

But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub command
or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually call it grub,
maybe it has a different name.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:31:04 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub command
> or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually call it grub,
> maybe it has a different name.

That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
(press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

C: (n.) the language following A and B. The world still awaits D and
   E. By Z, it may be acceptable for general use.

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:31:04 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub command
> > or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually call it grub,
> > maybe it has a different name.
> 
> That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
> (press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.
> 

hmmm, I thought you could do it from the console as well, for certain
commands.

If not, I will check further.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:42:45 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> > > But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub
> > > command or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually
> > > call it grub, maybe it has a different name.  
> > 
> > That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
> > (press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.
> >   
> 
> hmmm, I thought you could do it from the console as well, for certain
> commands.

The commands that show up in "qlist grub" can be run from a standard
shell. The GRUB interactive shell is different, with its own set of
commands. You really need to read the online manual or the info pages
again. The man pages explain the individual commands, but only the full
manual shows how it all fits together.

Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works, stick
with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB and go
straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Weird enough for government work.

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:42:45 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > > > But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub
> > > > command or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually
> > > > call it grub, maybe it has a different name.  
> > > 
> > > That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
> > > (press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.
> > >   
> > 
> > hmmm, I thought you could do it from the console as well, for certain
> > commands.
> 
> The commands that show up in "qlist grub" can be run from a standard
> shell. The GRUB interactive shell is different, with its own set of
> commands. You really need to read the online manual or the info pages
> again. The man pages explain the individual commands, but only the full
> manual shows how it all fits together.
> 
> Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works, stick
> with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB and go
> straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.

Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
linux.  It would not be as good as the uvesafb, but at least it would be
better than 80x25.  I use the console a lot and only use gnome
sometimes, but I don't want to have to reboot into a different kernel
just to use gnome.

So, I thought I would check out grub2 to see if those parameters would
work for me or not.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 09:41:07 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> > Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works,
> > stick with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB
> > and go straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.  
> 
> Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> linux.  It would not be as good as the uvesafb, but at least it would be
> better than 80x25.  I use the console a lot and only use gnome
> sometimes, but I don't want to have to reboot into a different kernel
> just to use gnome.

Might it not be simpler to avoid the conflict by switching to the nouveau
drivers rather than trying to learn a new bootloader just to pass a
workround?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 09:41:07 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > > Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works,
> > > stick with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB
> > > and go straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.  
> > 
> > Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> > frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> > work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> > parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> > linux.  It would not be as good as the uvesafb, but at least it would be
> > better than 80x25.  I use the console a lot and only use gnome
> > sometimes, but I don't want to have to reboot into a different kernel
> > just to use gnome.
> 
> Might it not be simpler to avoid the conflict by switching to the nouveau
> drivers rather than trying to learn a new bootloader just to pass a
> workround?

You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
time, so this is the problem.  I did try that once, but at the time
which was quite a while ago, it didn't work.  

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> time, so this is the problem.  I did try that once, but at the time
> which was quite a while ago, it didn't work.

Perhaps I've missed it, but is there any reason you must have nvidia-drivers 
rather than nouveau?

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wednesday 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> > time, so this is the problem.  I did try that once, but at the time
> > which was quite a while ago, it didn't work.
> 
> Perhaps I've missed it, but is there any reason you must have nvidia-drivers 
> rather than nouveau?

I have a nvidia card, so I need the nvidia drivers, unless I am missinng
something?

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Andrew Savchenko]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 09:41:07 -0400 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:42:45 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > 
> > > > > But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub
> > > > > command or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually
> > > > > call it grub, maybe it has a different name.  
> > > > 
> > > > That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
> > > > (press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.
> > > >   
> > > 
> > > hmmm, I thought you could do it from the console as well, for certain
> > > commands.
> > 
> > The commands that show up in "qlist grub" can be run from a standard
> > shell. The GRUB interactive shell is different, with its own set of
> > commands. You really need to read the online manual or the info pages
> > again. The man pages explain the individual commands, but only the full
> > manual shows how it all fits together.
> > 
> > Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works, stick
> > with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB and go
> > straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.
> 
> Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> linux.  It would not be as good as the uvesafb, but at least it would be
> better than 80x25.  I use the console a lot and only use gnome
> sometimes, but I don't want to have to reboot into a different kernel
> just to use gnome.

You can pass any kernel parameters using lilo as well.

Also it should be possible to use uvesafb and nvidia driver without
kernel switch, at least this is possible with fbcon: as described
in [1], it is possible to unbind framebuffer console and use text
vga console, then you should be able to unload uvesafb module and
load nvidia propietary blob.

[1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/fbcon.txt

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Dutch Ingraham]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 11:52:57AM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > 
> > > You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> > > time, so this is the problem.  I did try that once, but at the time
> > > which was quite a while ago, it didn't work.
> > 
> > Perhaps I've missed it, but is there any reason you must have nvidia-drivers 
> > rather than nouveau?
> 
> I have a nvidia card, so I need the nvidia drivers, unless I am missinng
> something?

The nvidia drivers are the proprietary drivers produced by NVIDIA; the
nouveau drivers are the open-source version.  Typically, the nouveau
driver works as well as the nouveau, except in some high-intensity
(generally 3D) environments.  As you know, you cannot use both at the
same time, but you can have them installed at the same time.  Just
blacklist the kernel modules of one or the other to test each.

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Andrew Savchenko]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:52:57 -0400 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > 
> > > You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> > > time, so this is the problem.  I did try that once, but at the time
> > > which was quite a while ago, it didn't work.
> > 
> > Perhaps I've missed it, but is there any reason you must have nvidia-drivers 
> > rather than nouveau?
> 
> I have a nvidia card, so I need the nvidia drivers, unless I am missinng
> something?
 
It is possible to use nouveau driver instead of nvidia drivers.
nouveau is a free software, it is also compatible with linux
framebuffer drivers (if I remember this correctly), but 3D
acceleration will be poor to broken compared to the propietary
nvidia drivers, as well as some other features (like advance power
management, cooling states and so on).

Results vary depending on a hardware used, but usually nouveau is
sufficient when user needs only office, web or video and is
unacceptable when user needs 3D-related stuff (gaming, modeling,
etc).

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> > Might it not be simpler to avoid the conflict by switching to the
> > nouveau drivers rather than trying to learn a new bootloader just to
> > pass a workround?  
> 
> You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> time, so this is the problem.

That's why I said "switch to nouveau", using that instead of the binary
drivers should avoid the conflict.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

When there's a will, I want to be in it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:52:57 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> > Perhaps I've missed it, but is there any reason you must have
> > nvidia-drivers rather than nouveau?  
> 
> I have a nvidia card, so I need the nvidia drivers, unless I am missinng
> something?

You are, the fact that nouveau is an alternative to the nvidia binary
drivers. I have an Nvidia card on this computer and haven't used the
binary drivers in years, avoiding the various problems that keep popping
up here and elsewhere.

I'm not a gamer (unless you count kpat) and don't need ultimate 3D
acceleration, nouveau suits my needs perfectly, especially the need for
things to just work.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

X-Modem- A device on the losing end of an encounter with lightning.

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 09:41:07 -0400 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:42:45 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub
> > > > > > command or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually
> > > > > > call it grub, maybe it has a different name.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
> > > > > (press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.
> > > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > hmmm, I thought you could do it from the console as well, for certain
> > > > commands.
> > > 
> > > The commands that show up in "qlist grub" can be run from a standard
> > > shell. The GRUB interactive shell is different, with its own set of
> > > commands. You really need to read the online manual or the info pages
> > > again. The man pages explain the individual commands, but only the full
> > > manual shows how it all fits together.
> > > 
> > > Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works, stick
> > > with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB and go
> > > straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.
> > 
> > Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> > frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> > work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> > parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> > linux.  It would not be as good as the uvesafb, but at least it would be
> > better than 80x25.  I use the console a lot and only use gnome
> > sometimes, but I don't want to have to reboot into a different kernel
> > just to use gnome.
> 
> You can pass any kernel parameters using lilo as well.
> 
> Also it should be possible to use uvesafb and nvidia driver without
> kernel switch, at least this is possible with fbcon: as described
> in [1], it is possible to unbind framebuffer console and use text
> vga console, then you should be able to unload uvesafb module and
> load nvidia propietary blob.
> 
> [1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/fbcon.txt

But, if I compile uvesafb as a module, as opposed to having it built
into the kernel, I can never activate  the frame buffer, I always get
/dev/fb0 no such file or directory when trying to use fbset.  If I could
do that, and get the correct mode, that would also solve my problem.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 11:52:57AM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wednesday 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> > > > time, so this is the problem.  I did try that once, but at the time
> > > > which was quite a while ago, it didn't work.
> > > 
> > > Perhaps I've missed it, but is there any reason you must have nvidia-drivers 
> > > rather than nouveau?
> > 
> > I have a nvidia card, so I need the nvidia drivers, unless I am missinng
> > something?
> 
> The nvidia drivers are the proprietary drivers produced by NVIDIA; the
> nouveau drivers are the open-source version.  Typically, the nouveau
> driver works as well as the nouveau, except in some high-intensity
> (generally 3D) environments.  As you know, you cannot use both at the
> same time, but you can have them installed at the same time.  Just
> blacklist the kernel modules of one or the other to test each.

If I wanted to do that, do I need to change opengl to xorg to use
nouveau?

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > > Might it not be simpler to avoid the conflict by switching to the
> > > nouveau drivers rather than trying to learn a new bootloader just to
> > > pass a workround?  
> > 
> > You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> > time, so this is the problem.
> 
> That's why I said "switch to nouveau", using that instead of the binary
> drivers should avoid the conflict.

Can I use uvesafb and noveau at the same time?

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Andrew Savchenko]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:55:39 -0400 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 09:41:07 -0400 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:42:45 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > > But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub
> > > > > > > command or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually
> > > > > > > call it grub, maybe it has a different name.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
> > > > > > (press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.
> > > > > >   
> > > > > 
> > > > > hmmm, I thought you could do it from the console as well, for certain
> > > > > commands.
> > > > 
> > > > The commands that show up in "qlist grub" can be run from a standard
> > > > shell. The GRUB interactive shell is different, with its own set of
> > > > commands. You really need to read the online manual or the info pages
> > > > again. The man pages explain the individual commands, but only the full
> > > > manual shows how it all fits together.
> > > > 
> > > > Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works, stick
> > > > with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB and go
> > > > straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.
> > > 
> > > Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> > > frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> > > work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> > > parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> > > linux.  It would not be as good as the uvesafb, but at least it would be
> > > better than 80x25.  I use the console a lot and only use gnome
> > > sometimes, but I don't want to have to reboot into a different kernel
> > > just to use gnome.
> > 
> > You can pass any kernel parameters using lilo as well.
> > 
> > Also it should be possible to use uvesafb and nvidia driver without
> > kernel switch, at least this is possible with fbcon: as described
> > in [1], it is possible to unbind framebuffer console and use text
> > vga console, then you should be able to unload uvesafb module and
> > load nvidia propietary blob.
> > 
> > [1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/fbcon.txt
> 
> But, if I compile uvesafb as a module, as opposed to having it built
> into the kernel, I can never activate  the frame buffer, I always get
> /dev/fb0 no such file or directory when trying to use fbset.  If I could
> do that, and get the correct mode, that would also solve my problem.

Have you tried to load uvesafb module with desired parameters before
running fbset? You can setup modules init script to do that
automatically.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:55:39 -0400 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 09:41:07 -0400 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > > Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:42:45 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > > But the manual and the html pages constantly talk about the grub
> > > > > > > > command or rather the grub interactive command, and they usually
> > > > > > > > call it grub, maybe it has a different name.  
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > That's the GRUB interactive shell, that you get to from the boot menu
> > > > > > > (press c) or get dropped into it if there is no grub.cfg file.
> > > > > > >   
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > hmmm, I thought you could do it from the console as well, for certain
> > > > > > commands.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The commands that show up in "qlist grub" can be run from a standard
> > > > > shell. The GRUB interactive shell is different, with its own set of
> > > > > commands. You really need to read the online manual or the info pages
> > > > > again. The man pages explain the individual commands, but only the full
> > > > > manual shows how it all fits together.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Why are you looking to switch from Lilo to GRUB now? If Lilo works, stick
> > > > > with it. If it is because you have EFI hardware, I'd skip GRUB and go
> > > > > straight to Gummiboot or systemd-boot.
> > > > 
> > > > Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> > > > frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> > > > work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> > > > parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> > > > linux.  It would not be as good as the uvesafb, but at least it would be
> > > > better than 80x25.  I use the console a lot and only use gnome
> > > > sometimes, but I don't want to have to reboot into a different kernel
> > > > just to use gnome.
> > > 
> > > You can pass any kernel parameters using lilo as well.
> > > 
> > > Also it should be possible to use uvesafb and nvidia driver without
> > > kernel switch, at least this is possible with fbcon: as described
> > > in [1], it is possible to unbind framebuffer console and use text
> > > vga console, then you should be able to unload uvesafb module and
> > > load nvidia propietary blob.
> > > 
> > > [1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/fbcon.txt
> > 
> > But, if I compile uvesafb as a module, as opposed to having it built
> > into the kernel, I can never activate  the frame buffer, I always get
> > /dev/fb0 no such file or directory when trying to use fbset.  If I could
> > do that, and get the correct mode, that would also solve my problem.
> 
> Have you tried to load uvesafb module with desired parameters before
> running fbset? You can setup modules init script to do that
> automatically.

Yep, I tried that, but no joy there at all.  I even tried the nvidia
frame buffer thinking it might be compatible with the nvidia drivers,
but I could not get anything out of it, either as a module or built in.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Dutch Ingraham]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 12:57:40PM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 11:52:57AM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Wednesday 15 Jun 2016 11:05:13 covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > You can't use the nouveau drivers and the nvidia driver at the same
> > > > > time, so this is the problem.  I did try that once, but at the time
> > > > > which was quite a while ago, it didn't work.
> > > > 
> > > > Perhaps I've missed it, but is there any reason you must have nvidia-drivers 
> > > > rather than nouveau?
> > > 
> > > I have a nvidia card, so I need the nvidia drivers, unless I am missinng
> > > something?
> > 
> > The nvidia drivers are the proprietary drivers produced by NVIDIA; the
> > nouveau drivers are the open-source version.  Typically, the nouveau
> > driver works as well as the nouveau, except in some high-intensity
> > (generally 3D) environments.  As you know, you cannot use both at the
> > same time, but you can have them installed at the same time.  Just
> > blacklist the kernel modules of one or the other to test each.
> 
> If I wanted to do that, do I need to change opengl to xorg to use
> nouveau?

I'm sure there are xorg and graphics experts on this list more suited to
answer this than me, but they would likely need a lot more information
on your installed applications to fully answer.

A good place to start would be the Arch Linux Wiki on nouveau [1], which
seems to indicate some mesa packages would be needed for opengl support.

[1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/nouveau

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:00:33 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> > That's why I said "switch to nouveau", using that instead of the
> > binary drivers should avoid the conflict.  
> 
> Can I use uvesafb and noveau at the same time?

I've not tried it, but as both are proper in-kernel modules, chances are
it should work.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

For security reasons, all text in this mail is double-rot13 encrypted.

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Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:57:40 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> > The nvidia drivers are the proprietary drivers produced by NVIDIA; the
> > nouveau drivers are the open-source version.  Typically, the nouveau
> > driver works as well as the nouveau, except in some high-intensity
> > (generally 3D) environments.  As you know, you cannot use both at the
> > same time, but you can have them installed at the same time.  Just
> > blacklist the kernel modules of one or the other to test each.  
> 
> If I wanted to do that, do I need to change opengl to xorg to use
> nouveau?

[nelz@hactar ~ 0]% eselect opengl list
Available OpenGL implementations:
  [1]   xorg-x11 *

Yes.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Do I BELIEVE in the Bible?! HELL man, I've SEEN one!!!

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loading frame bufrer modules (was Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question)

[covici]

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:00:33 -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> 
> > > That's why I said "switch to nouveau", using that instead of the
> > > binary drivers should avoid the conflict.  
> > 
> > Can I use uvesafb and noveau at the same time?
> 
> I've not tried it, but as both are proper in-kernel modules, chances are
> it should work.

So, how do I load a frame buffer module and get it to work?  I tried
creating the device /dev/fb0 by hand, but that didn't help either.  I
may try an alias, but if anyone knows that would be better -- my google
search did not produce anything.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[waltdnes]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 09:41:07AM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote

> Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> linux.

  You should be able to pass the kernel parameters in lilo using the
"append" command.  Here's an example from my lilo.conf...

image = /boot/kernel.production
        root = /dev/sda5
        label = Production
        read-only # read-only for checking
        append = "noexec=on net.ifnames=0"

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] basic grub question

[covici]

waltdnes@waltdnes.org wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 09:41:07AM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote
> 
> > Well, I am trying to use the nvidia driver which conflicts with uvesafb
> > frame buffer, so it seems.  It used to work fine, but not it does not
> > work anymore and the only solutions I have found was a couple of grub
> > parameters which gives you a higher resolution and passes it on to
> > linux.
> 
>   You should be able to pass the kernel parameters in lilo using the
> "append" command.  Here's an example from my lilo.conf...
> 
> image = /boot/kernel.production
>         root = /dev/sda5
>         label = Production
>         read-only # read-only for checking
>         append = "noexec=on net.ifnames=0"

Well, the problemis, I don't know the correct parameters to get the best
resolution -- there is a formula to calculate if I use vga=, but grub
had a way where you specified the mode and it put the screen in graphics
mode and passed it on to linux, which seemed unique to me.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

[gentoo-user] Re: basic grub question

[James]

 <covici <at> ccs.covici.com> writes:


> Well, the problemis, I don't know the correct parameters to get the best
> resolution -- there is a formula to calculate if I use vga=, but grub
> had a way where you specified the mode and it put the screen in graphics
> mode and passed it on to linux, which seemed unique to me.

vga= 	  	 
773 	= 	1024x768x8
775 	= 	1280x1024x8
791 	= 	1024x768x16
794 	= 	1280x1024x16


http://www.sprint.net.au/~terbut/usefulbox/lilovgatable.htm

may help.


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: basic grub question

[covici]

James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>  <covici <at> ccs.covici.com> writes:
> 
> 
> > Well, the problemis, I don't know the correct parameters to get the best
> > resolution -- there is a formula to calculate if I use vga=, but grub
> > had a way where you specified the mode and it put the screen in graphics
> > mode and passed it on to linux, which seemed unique to me.
> 
> vga= 	  	 
> 773 	= 	1024x768x8
> 775 	= 	1280x1024x8
> 791 	= 	1024x768x16
> 794 	= 	1280x1024x16
> 
> 
> http://www.sprint.net.au/~terbut/usefulbox/lilovgatable.htm
> 
> may help.
Thanks, I will check this out.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: basic grub question

[Fernando Rodriguez]

On 06/15/2016 07:58 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>>  <covici <at> ccs.covici.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>> Well, the problemis, I don't know the correct parameters to get the best
>>> resolution -- there is a formula to calculate if I use vga=, but grub
>>> had a way where you specified the mode and it put the screen in graphics
>>> mode and passed it on to linux, which seemed unique to me.
>>
>> vga= 	  	 
>> 773 	= 	1024x768x8
>> 775 	= 	1280x1024x8
>> 791 	= 	1024x768x16
>> 794 	= 	1280x1024x16
>>
>>
>> http://www.sprint.net.au/~terbut/usefulbox/lilovgatable.htm
>>
>> may help.
> Thanks, I will check this out.
> 

For the framebuffer drivers that may not work. For a trident card I use
tridentfb.mode_option=1280x1024@60. The options for the different drivers
can be found on the kernel documentation on Documentation/fb.

What worked best for me with nouveau on recent kernels is to disable all
framebuffer drivers and enable CONFIG_DRM_FBDEV_EMULATION. It will boot into
the framebuffer without flicker.

You can also use the VESA driver to boot and then load the nouveau
module (which udev should do automatically for you). For me this switches
to the fb console as soon as the module loads but it gives me a blank
screen or a panic if any other fb drivers than VESA are builtin or loaded.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: basic grub question

[covici]

Fernando Rodriguez <cyklonite@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 06/15/2016 07:58 PM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> > James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>  <covici <at> ccs.covici.com> writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Well, the problemis, I don't know the correct parameters to get the best
> >>> resolution -- there is a formula to calculate if I use vga=, but grub
> >>> had a way where you specified the mode and it put the screen in graphics
> >>> mode and passed it on to linux, which seemed unique to me.
> >>
> >> vga= 	  	 
> >> 773 	= 	1024x768x8
> >> 775 	= 	1280x1024x8
> >> 791 	= 	1024x768x16
> >> 794 	= 	1280x1024x16
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.sprint.net.au/~terbut/usefulbox/lilovgatable.htm
> >>
> >> may help.
> > Thanks, I will check this out.
> > 
> 
> For the framebuffer drivers that may not work. For a trident card I use
> tridentfb.mode_option=1280x1024@60. The options for the different drivers
> can be found on the kernel documentation on Documentation/fb.
> 
> What worked best for me with nouveau on recent kernels is to disable all
> framebuffer drivers and enable CONFIG_DRM_FBDEV_EMULATION. It will boot into
> the framebuffer without flicker.
> 
> You can also use the VESA driver to boot and then load the nouveau
> module (which udev should do automatically for you). For me this switches
> to the fb console as soon as the module loads but it gives me a blank
> screen or a panic if any other fb drivers than VESA are builtin or loaded.

What I find is that even though I have uvesafb as a module, and nouveau
as a module nouveau gets loaded automatically and I get a frame buffer
which seems not too bad, not as good as the uvesafb one, but it will do
for the time being.  I have a 1920x1080 screen.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com