[gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Raffaele BELARDI]

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Hello,

I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.

Thanks,

raffaele

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Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[J. Roeleveld]

On 17 June 2020 18:52:49 CEST, Raffaele BELARDI <raffaele.belardi@st.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
>some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
>I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.
>
>Thanks,
>
>raffaele

Not entirely certain userspace will be supported, but it shouldn't be too difficult to test.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Michael]

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On Wednesday, 17 June 2020 18:36:51 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 17 June 2020 18:52:49 CEST, Raffaele BELARDI <raffaele.belardi@st.com> 
wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
> >some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
> >I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >raffaele
> 
> Not entirely certain userspace will be supported, but it shouldn't be too
> difficult to test.
> 
> --
> Joost

Have a look here:

https://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/sys-kernel/gentoo-sources/?hideattic=0

However, unless you replicate a system from back then you will be trying to  
build old sources with a new toolchain.  Perhaps it would be easier to fetch 
an old minimal CD with a 3 series kernel, or for a ready made OS and kernel 
into one, see if you can dig out some older Debian release?

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RE: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Raffaele BELARDI]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael <confabulate@kintzios.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 21:45
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo
> 
> On Wednesday, 17 June 2020 18:36:51 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On 17 June 2020 18:52:49 CEST, Raffaele BELARDI
> > <raffaele.belardi@st.com>
> wrote:
> > >Hello,
> > >
> > >I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
> > >some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
> > >I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >raffaele
> >
> > Not entirely certain userspace will be supported, but it shouldn't be
> > too difficult to test.
> >
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> Have a look here:
> 
> https://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/sys-
> kernel/gentoo-sources/?hideattic=0
> 
> However, unless you replicate a system from back then you will be trying to
> build old sources with a new toolchain.  Perhaps it would be easier to fetch

Yes, that is my main worry. I guess there is no way to tell unless you try.

> an old minimal CD with a 3 series kernel, or for a ready made OS and kernel
> into one, see if you can dig out some older Debian release?

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Raffaele BELARDI wrote:
>I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
>some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution? I see that
>currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.

You might try sys-kernel/vanilla-sources-3.16.85.

-dnh

-- 
  I distinctly remember forgetting that. -Clara Barton

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Gerrit Kuehn]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 16:52:49 +0000
Raffaele BELARDI <raffaele.belardi@st.com> wrote:

> I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
> some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution? I see that
> currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.

There is still 3.x in the vanilla-sources. I've been using (manually
backported) 3.2 vanilla kernels with recent Gentoo at least up to
somewhen 2018.


HTH
cu
  Gerrit

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[james]

On 6/17/20 12:52 PM, Raffaele BELARDI wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for some 
> very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
> 
> I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> raffaele
> 

I use a 3.18.40 kernel, currently, on one of my AMD systems. It has 
thousands of source build packages, not only from portage but many others.

Occasionally, I have to use another AMD system, with a newer kernel. I 
have many old codes, centric to a version 3 of the kernel, that would be 
a massive pita to move to a 5 version of the kernel. There are plans, as 
many are related to hybrid-optimized cluster that are NOT centric to the 
popular cluster codes.

Home made 'systolic array processing' is just one legacy collective of 
old codes, I still use.


Many embedded (gentoo) devs still use very old linux kernels for a wide 
variety of reasons. Products often developed do not change much, except 
to update the firmware for a strong reason.

Thousands (millions?) of companies use very old linux codes, including 
kernels for a plethora or reason. They just do not publish it. The old 
stuff, if beautiful compared to much of the bloat-ware we have today. 
 From linux kernels to cluster*.  I still run codes on 386/486 machines, 
just for grins and as a seed for codes that are minimized. IoT from the 
big vendors is so bloated, they cannot even find  problems. Old embedded 
(gentoo) linux codes run so fast, reliable and easy to collect 
performance data. You go down this path, its a game-changer. An 
addition, as minimalist coding and small, secure executables are an 
artform. Most of the semiconductor manufactures, are *ALWAYS* looking 
for those types of coders.  Hello (TI)!

So, YES old gentoo is very alive amongst minimalist and corporations. 
ymmv. I've run into many that keep incredicle trees of old, reliable 
codes. They are often much easier for an EE to use in verification of 
functions, Micro-Controllers, FPGA, etc etc etc.


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 3:35 PM james <garftd@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> I use a 3.18.40 kernel, currently, on one of my AMD systems. It has
> thousands of source build packages, not only from portage but many others.

Keep in mind that you're running a non-longterm kernel, which means
that if there is a known regression or security issue in your kernel,
a kernel update to fix it wouldn't be provided upstream.

If you were running 3.16 or 4.4 you would get these updates.  If you
plan to stick with a kernel for a very long time you should try to
pick one that is designated as a longterm kernel.  3.16.85 was
released just a week ago.  It obviously doesn't get very frequent
updates, but if something important comes along they'll release a fix.
I'd have to check the timelines but you might have unmitigated Spectre
vulnerabilities in that kernel.

Also, you mention AMD.  If you happen to be using a Ryzen processor
there were a number of updates to the kernel to better support it.  I
forget which kernels have these but if you don't have those patches
you'd probably benefit from an upgrade.  If you have a pre-Ryzen CPU
then that won't matter much.

I completely agree that you can get away with a longterm kernel and
there are a lot of reasons for doing so.  I just recommend sticking
with one that actually is supported.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[james]

On 6/18/20 4:02 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 3:35 PM james <garftd@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> I use a 3.18.40 kernel, currently, on one of my AMD systems. It has
>> thousands of source build packages, not only from portage but many others.
> 
> Keep in mind that you're running a non-longterm kernel, which means
> that if there is a known regression or security issue in your kernel,
> a kernel update to fix it wouldn't be provided upstream.
> 
> If you were running 3.16 or 4.4 you would get these updates.  If you
> plan to stick with a kernel for a very long time you should try to
> pick one that is designated as a longterm kernel.  3.16.85 was
> released just a week ago.  It obviously doesn't get very frequent
> updates, but if something important comes along they'll release a fix.
> I'd have to check the timelines but you might have unmitigated Spectre
> vulnerabilities in that kernel.
> 
> Also, you mention AMD.  If you happen to be using a Ryzen processor
> there were a number of updates to the kernel to better support it.  I
> forget which kernels have these but if you don't have those patches
> you'd probably benefit from an upgrade.  If you have a pre-Ryzen CPU
> then that won't matter much.
> 
> I completely agree that you can get away with a longterm kernel and
> there are a lot of reasons for doing so.  I just recommend sticking
> with one that actually is supported.
> 

Agreed. It just happened that way; no planning.... Yep all of the 
embedded devices where pre-Ryzen, as well at the amd-15 chipsets of the 
old hosts, where a plethora of codes live.

Definitely not suggesting that pathway and I never intended to get that 
deep into embedded; it just happened. I was just trying to 'inspire' 
folks on older codes and such.

In an ideal life, I'd be getting a HH-50!

https://www.hhcatamarans.com/hh50


Harboring it  on Sugarloaf Key (east) of Key West a few miles)  and 
forgetting how to spell Gentoo. Of coarse that would mean I'd have to 
have a few (coding) youngsters that like the aero-nautical life style. I 
rarely get to live out a properly planned life. My Gentoo Foo is 
definitely a mess...

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/57-Palm-Dr-Key-West-FL-33040/2101168547_zpid/?mmlb=g,0

For me, HOPE is a dream, being totally (gentoo and codes) ORGANIZED; 
wishful thinking.....


Thank you Rich,

James

RE: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Raffaele BELARDI]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james <garftd@verizon.net>
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 21:36
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo
> 
> On 6/17/20 12:52 PM, Raffaele BELARDI wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
> > some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
> >
> > I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > raffaele
> >
> 
> I use a 3.18.40 kernel, currently, on one of my AMD systems. It has
> thousands of source build packages, not only from portage but many others.
> 

What about the rest of the system, in particular GCC and the C libraries? Do you manage to build the 3.x kernel with up to date system or do you need to ''freeze'' some packages?

Thanks,

raffaele

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Sid Spry]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020, at 5:31 AM, Raffaele BELARDI wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: james <garftd@verizon.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 21:36
> > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo
> > 
> > On 6/17/20 12:52 PM, Raffaele BELARDI wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
> > > some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
> > >
> > > I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > raffaele
> > >
> > 
> > I use a 3.18.40 kernel, currently, on one of my AMD systems. It has
> > thousands of source build packages, not only from portage but many others.
> > 
> 
> What about the rest of the system, in particular GCC and the C 
> libraries? Do you manage to build the 3.x kernel with up to date system 
> or do you need to ''freeze'' some packages?
> 

If you don't care about age of the userland most tools are actually very backwards
compatible and should work on a 3.x kernel. You will need to try it, but I expect
the modern @system set of packages would work just fine.

If you do need an old userland what I might try to do is grab an old Debian/Ubuntu
CD. You could then use Portage Prefix to build the older tools you need with a
more contemporary userland. Again, the bigger issue will be old releases falling out
of tree.

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Gerrit Kuehn]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:31:08 +0000
Raffaele BELARDI <raffaele.belardi@st.com> wrote:

> What about the rest of the system, in particular GCC and the C
> libraries? Do you manage to build the 3.x kernel with up to date
> system or do you need to ''freeze'' some packages?

3.2 required an older gcc for me. I think 5.x and 6.x worked fine (if
memory serves me well). As gcc comes slotted, it is not too hard to
have them all installed in parallel.


cu
  Gerrit

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[karl]

Gerrit:
> On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:31:08 +0000
> Raffaele BELARDI <raffaele.belardi@st.com> wrote:
> 
> > What about the rest of the system, in particular GCC and the C
> > libraries? Do you manage to build the 3.x kernel with up to date
> > system or do you need to ''freeze'' some packages?
> 
> 3.2 required an older gcc for me. I think 5.x and 6.x worked fine (if
> memory serves me well). As gcc comes slotted, it is not too hard to
> have them all installed in parallel.

 For the compilers, perhaps theese can help:
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/message/46d881b86ea66bf9b537374f4451d31c
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/message/da77b9598e34e7be3b76c74027b40efe

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[james]

On 6/21/20 6:31 AM, Raffaele BELARDI wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: james <garftd@verizon.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 21:36
>> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
>> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo
>>
>> On 6/17/20 12:52 PM, Raffaele BELARDI wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for
>>> some very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution?
>>>
>>> I see that currently gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> raffaele
>>>
>>
>> I use a 3.18.40 kernel, currently, on one of my AMD systems. It has
>> thousands of source build packages, not only from portage but many others.
>>
> 
> What about the rest of the system, in particular GCC and the C libraries? Do you manage to build the 3.x kernel with up to date system or do you need to ''freeze'' some packages?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> raffaele
> 


Sorry I missed this.

YES every thing else is up to date; sometimes I have to 'hack' at 
updates a few days, but most is current. Most of the old codes, are 
one's where I put the code and the ebuild together, for consistency.

Ask me anything and I'll reply with the version number. In fact, many of 
the codes are ~ so they are the latest versions. The one caveat: 
python-2.7 is a mess and I have some codes using python 3.8 and are 
asking for 3.9....

dev-lang/python
      Available versions:
      (2.7)  2.7.17-r2 2.7.18
      (3.6)  3.6.10-r1(3.6/3.6m)^t 3.6.10-r2(3.6/3.6m)^t
      (3.7)  3.7.7-r1(3.7/3.7m)^t 3.7.7-r2(3.7/3.7m)^t ~3.7.8(3.7/3.7m)^t
      (3.8)  3.8.2-r1^t 3.8.2-r2^t ~3.8.3^t
      (3.9)  ~3.9.0_alpha6^t ~3.9.0_beta1^t ~3.9.0_beta2^t ~3.9.0_beta3^t



Sorry for the delayed response.

hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] old kernel on Gentoo

[Andreas K. Huettel]

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> I might need to build and run an old 3.x kernel on a Desktop PC for some
> very specific tests. Would Gentoo be a good solution? I see that currently
> gentoo-sources only includes 4.x and 5.x sources.

Should work but you need to make sure your glibc supports the kernel. Minimum 
for 2.30 and 2.31 is kernel 3.2.0; if you want to go further, you need an old 
glibc too (see separate thread, this becomes more work).



-- 
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer
(council, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)

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