From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCE2F139083 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:20:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3935FE1180; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:20:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.muc.de (colin.muc.de [193.149.48.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AE348E0FF3 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:20:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 50754 invoked by uid 3782); 10 Dec 2017 10:20:43 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C749A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.116.154]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 11:20:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 5718 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Dec 2017 10:13:30 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 10:13:30 +0000 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is gnome becoming obligatory? Message-ID: <20171210101330.GA5671@ACM> References: <6582741.F9gJHCEsXr@dell_xps> <2343494.DDJaQvByiF@dell_xps> <6cb25230-9803-2bd4-ee69-66504d0d1822@gmx.com> <5A2D04A1.6090101@youngman.org.uk> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5A2D04A1.6090101@youngman.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Archives-Salt: 148c8fa8-1a74-4eca-910f-86d91001ddc3 X-Archives-Hash: e2d34d73a53aa5f6de5aec8279cf2ce0 Hello, Wols On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 09:55:45 +0000, Wols Lists wrote: > On 09/12/17 12:08, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > I'm all in favour of Lennart-bashing, but let's keep the bashing to what > > he's responsible for. > > As far as I can tell, the most egregious thing he's responsible for is > for wanting a well-designed system that works! No, he's done far worse than that. > Face it, linux is a hodge-podge of things thrown together, and held > together with baling wire and sealing wax. It's a hodge-podge, yes, but held together with robust protocols. > Lennart doesn't want a system where a small failure in one place > cascades and brings down a load of stuff elsewhere. Neither do I, and neither does anybody. GNU/Linux is not like that, and never has been. It has traditionally been a massive pain to set up, though, something which has improved dramatically over the last ten or twenty years. > Granted he's not necessarily the most politic of people, and has ruffled > a lot of feathers, but I'd much rather a system he's cleaned up, than a > system where everything hangs together on a knife-edge. His motivation seems to be ego. To force everybody to use his software. He did this by, amongst other things, abusing the trust placed in him to maintain udev. Early on he abandoned support for udev for everybody but users of his new init system, systemd, in an attempt (sadly successful) to force "everybody" into using systemd. I've no idea how good systemd is. It's not been through the normal process of choice and selection that other successful packages have. It was forced on people. But being forced to have a binary system log, being forced (so I have heard) to have an http server running, ...., doesn't make it an attractive package for me. > Cheers, > Wol -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).