[gentoo-user] USE flag question (not total newbie)

[gentoo-user] USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Ian Zimmerman]

What does it mean when a USE flag name ends with '%' ?

After my last --sync, emerge --qvp -u says (among a heap of other output):

[ebuild   R   ] dev-db/sqlitebrowser-3.8.0  USE="-qt5 {-test} (-qt4%*)" 

Does this mean the package will be rebuilt without any qt support at
all?  Why?

I have this in /etc/portage/package.use/s/sqlitebrowser :

dev-db/sqlitebrowser qt4


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Re: [gentoo-user] USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Stroller]

> On 29 Nov 2016, at 01:34, Ian Zimmerman <itz@primate.net> wrote:
> 
> What does it mean when a USE flag name ends with '%' ?


From `man emerge`:

    The following symbols are affixed to USE flags in order to
    indicate their status:
   
    Symbol   Location    Meaning
    ──────────────────────────────────────────
   
    -        prefix      not enabled (either disabled or removed)
    *        suffix      transition to or from the enabled state
    %        suffix      newly added or removed                       
    ()       circumfix   forced, masked, or removed                   
    {}       circumfix   state is bound to FEATURES settings   


> After my last --sync, emerge --qvp -u says (among a heap of other output):
> 
> [ebuild   R   ] dev-db/sqlitebrowser-3.8.0  USE="-qt5 {-test} (-qt4%*)" 
> 
> Does this mean the package will be rebuilt without any qt support at
> all?  Why?

No, I believe it means that the _option_ to enable or disable qt4 has been removed.

It could be that the package is always compiled with qt4, or that it's always disabled, or that `make` detects it automatically.

The best things to look at are the ebuild and the changelog.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2016-11-29 01:55, Stroller wrote:

> > [ebuild   R   ] dev-db/sqlitebrowser-3.8.0  USE="-qt5 {-test} (-qt4%*)" 
> > 
> > Does this mean the package will be rebuilt without any qt support at
> > all?  Why?
> 
> No, I believe it means that the _option_ to enable or disable qt4 has
> been removed.

Well - notice the 'R'.  So the package (or at least the version, see
below) has not been changed since last time.

> It could be that the package is always compiled with qt4, or that it's
> always disabled, or that `make` detects it automatically.  The best
> things to look at are the ebuild and the changelog.

There is no changelog for this package :-(

In the ebuild, the only occurrence of the string "qt4" is:

src_prepare() {
        # https://github.com/qingfengxia/qhexedit still bundled
        # x11-libs/qscintilla[qt4?,qt5?] still bundled
        #                     ^^^^
        find libs/{antlr-2.7.7,qcustomplot-source} -delete || die
        cmake-utils_src_prepare
}

I don't think this is responsible for the emerge output.

Is it possible for the ebuild to change (in particular, for USE flags to
be removed) without a change in version number?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:15:06 -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> > No, I believe it means that the _option_ to enable or disable qt4 has
> > been removed.  
> 
> Well - notice the 'R'.  So the package (or at least the version, see
> below) has not been changed since last time.

The version hasn't changed but the USE flags have, hence the rebuild.
Probably because you are using either --newuse or --changed-use.

> Is it possible for the ebuild to change (in particular, for USE flags to
> be removed) without a change in version number?

Yes, ebuilds can be, and are, changed without a revision bump under some
circumstances. Hence the presence of the above flags for emerge. I prefer
--changed-use since it is less intrusive, only rebuilding when the
changed USE flag actually makes a difference.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 15: Extinct Life

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/11/2016 04:15, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2016-11-29 01:55, Stroller wrote:
> 
>>> [ebuild   R   ] dev-db/sqlitebrowser-3.8.0  USE="-qt5 {-test} (-qt4%*)" 
>>>
>>> Does this mean the package will be rebuilt without any qt support at
>>> all?  Why?
>>
>> No, I believe it means that the _option_ to enable or disable qt4 has
>> been removed.
> 
> Well - notice the 'R'.  So the package (or at least the version, see
> below) has not been changed since last time.
> 
>> It could be that the package is always compiled with qt4, or that it's
>> always disabled, or that `make` detects it automatically.  The best
>> things to look at are the ebuild and the changelog.
> 
> There is no changelog for this package :-(
> 
> In the ebuild, the only occurrence of the string "qt4" is:
> 
> src_prepare() {
>         # https://github.com/qingfengxia/qhexedit still bundled
>         # x11-libs/qscintilla[qt4?,qt5?] still bundled
>         #                     ^^^^
>         find libs/{antlr-2.7.7,qcustomplot-source} -delete || die
>         cmake-utils_src_prepare
> }
> 
> I don't think this is responsible for the emerge output.
> 
> Is it possible for the ebuild to change (in particular, for USE flags to
> be removed) without a change in version number?
> 

Yes.

It's quite common to have a change in an ebuild that makes no difference
at all to the files on disk if it's already emerged. Bumping the version
in that case forces a rebuild everywhere to give exactly the same result
= not good.

If the package is not already merged on a given machine, then a new
install simply does what it should.

Suppose you had a situation where a package had qt4 in USE but because
of the way it works it's not actually possible to install it without
qt4. Merging it with USE=qt4 would always proceed, and with USE=-qt4
would always error out (you can get to this state gradually over time)

In that case, removing the flag entirely from USE would make zero
difference where the package is already installed, so no version bump is
needed.

All this depends on the judgement of the ebuild maintainer

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] USE flag question (not total newbie)

[J. Roeleveld]

On November 29, 2016 2:34:39 AM GMT+01:00, Ian Zimmerman <itz@primate.net> wrote:
>What does it mean when a USE flag name ends with '%' ?
>
>After my last --sync, emerge --qvp -u says (among a heap of other
>output):
>
>[ebuild   R   ] dev-db/sqlitebrowser-3.8.0  USE="-qt5 {-test} (-qt4%*)"
>
>
>Does this mean the package will be rebuilt without any qt support at
>all?  Why?
>
>I have this in /etc/portage/package.use/s/sqlitebrowser :
>
>dev-db/sqlitebrowser qt4

Most packages are slowly being migrated to qt5. If you want to rebuild with qt support, change the USE flag from qt4 to qt5.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2016-11-29 04:12, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> Most packages are slowly being migrated to qt5. If you want to rebuild
> with qt support, change the USE flag from qt4 to qt5.

Yeah, I want to build with qt support - qt4, that is :-)

It turns out the explanation in the other subthread was correct, and just
building without any specific flags gives me a qt4 linked build.

I'll consider switching to qt5 when I can rebuild _all_ my packages that
way.  Under no circumstances will I install both qt4 and qt5, that is a
recipe for madness.

But thanks anyway.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 20:59:30 -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> I'll consider switching to qt5 when I can rebuild _all_ my packages that
> way.  Under no circumstances will I install both qt4 and qt5, that is a
> recipe for madness.

qt4 and qt5 are slotted and intended to be installed together. Packages
are updated at different rates and you will reach a point where some
packages haven't be updated for qt4 while others have dropped it
entirely. The only way to completely avoid this situation is to have at
most one package using qt installed.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Eagles may soar, but Wombles don't get sucked into jet engines

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday 28 Nov 2016 20:59:30 Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> I'll consider switching to qt5 when I can rebuild _all_ my packages that
> way.  Under no circumstances will I install both qt4 and qt5, that is a
> recipe for madness.

I take it you don't run a KDE desktop with KMail-2. I do, and I found many 
months ago that it was no longer possible to resist Qt-5. Since then I've been 
running a sort of hybrid system in which, as Neil said, most components of KDE 
have been moved to Qt-5 but KMail-2 is still months away.

Madness, while I wouldn't attempt to deny all possibility of it, seems not to 
be evident here just yet.

-- 
Regards
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/11/2016 14:26, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Monday 28 Nov 2016 20:59:30 Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> 
>> I'll consider switching to qt5 when I can rebuild _all_ my packages that
>> way.  Under no circumstances will I install both qt4 and qt5, that is a
>> recipe for madness.
> 
> I take it you don't run a KDE desktop with KMail-2. I do, and I found many 
> months ago that it was no longer possible to resist Qt-5. Since then I've been 
> running a sort of hybrid system in which, as Neil said, most components of KDE 
> have been moved to Qt-5 but KMail-2 is still months away.
> 
> Madness, while I wouldn't attempt to deny all possibility of it, seems not to 
> be evident here just yet.
> 


I too don't see much wrong with co-installing Qt4 and Qt5.

Different libs, different paths. Only real downside is disk space
consumed. It's not really much different from having both gth-2 and
gtk-3, or even gtk and qt

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2016-11-29 14:48, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Different libs, different paths. Only real downside is disk space
> consumed. It's not really much different from having both gth-2 and
> gtk-3, or even gtk and qt

No, the downside is having 2 GUIs which work in "mostly" similar but
subtly different ways, and screaming (literally, in my case) every time
a new inconsistency surfaces.  I get enough of that with websites :-(

Of course I avoid gtk3 as well.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 10:36:49 AM Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2016-11-29 14:48, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > Different libs, different paths. Only real downside is disk space
> > consumed. It's not really much different from having both gth-2 and
> > gtk-3, or even gtk and qt
> 
> No, the downside is having 2 GUIs which work in "mostly" similar but
> subtly different ways, and screaming (literally, in my case) every time
> a new inconsistency surfaces.  I get enough of that with websites :-(
> 
> Of course I avoid gtk3 as well.

That will greatly reduce the amount of software. I consider these to be 
libraries. I don't really care about it all looking fully similar. As long as 
it does the job.

--
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2016-11-30 06:44, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> That will greatly reduce the amount of software. I consider these to
> be libraries. I don't really care about it all looking fully
> similar. As long as it does the job.

Not the look.  Indeed, I hardly care about that at all.

Behavior.  Different focus handling, inconsistent shortcuts for basic
actions such as Close, etc.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: USE flag question (not total newbie)

[J. Roeleveld]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 12:31:07 AM Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2016-11-30 06:44, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > That will greatly reduce the amount of software. I consider these to
> > be libraries. I don't really care about it all looking fully
> > similar. As long as it does the job.
> 
> Not the look.  Indeed, I hardly care about that at all.
> 
> Behavior.  Different focus handling, inconsistent shortcuts for basic
> actions such as Close, etc.

Strange, not noticed that myself. And I do run KDE as desktop along with 
several GTK based applications, like:

libreoffice, acroread, handbrake, vlc, icaclient, firefox, opera.

--
Joost