[gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gottlieb]

I am installing gentoo on a new laptop.  I am a gnome, hence systemd,
user.  I also use lvm (I have / and /usr combined on a non-lvm partition).

At the point where you choose a profile
(//wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Choosing_the_right_profile)
I selected
[5]   default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd *

But now I get merge conflicts since I have sys-fs/udev installed.
I can't depclean udev.

Should I have just used the  default/linux/amd64/13.0 profile
and switched later after the installation is complete.

Fortunately, I don't need to used the new machine immediately so I don't
mind starting the installation over from the beginning

In a similar vein, my systems have PORTDIR=/var/portage.  Am I correct
in now believing that it is better to do the install with the default
PORTDIR=/usr/portage and then switching after the dust settles

thanks,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 8:00 PM, <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> I am installing gentoo on a new laptop.  I am a gnome, hence systemd,
> user.  I also use lvm (I have / and /usr combined on a non-lvm partition).
>
> At the point where you choose a profile
> (//
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Choosing_the_right_profile
)
> I selected
> [5]   default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd *
>
> But now I get merge conflicts since I have sys-fs/udev installed.
> I can't depclean udev.
>
> Should I have just used the  default/linux/amd64/13.0 profile
> and switched later after the installation is complete.
>
> Fortunately, I don't need to used the new machine immediately so I don't
> mind starting the installation over from the beginning
>
> In a similar vein, my systems have PORTDIR=/var/portage.  Am I correct
> in now believing that it is better to do the install with the default
> PORTDIR=/usr/portage and then switching after the dust settles

What I usually do is:

1. Extract the stage 3 tarball
2. Sync the portage tree
3. Switch to the systemd profile
4. emerge -uDNvp world (this usually solves the systemd/udev conflicts)
5. emerge --depclean
6. Switch to the GNOME/systemd profile
7. Emerge gnome-base/gnome

In my experience, if you switch directly to the GNOME/systemd profile, you
get many conflicts.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:00:54 -0400, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:

> I am installing gentoo on a new laptop.  I am a gnome, hence systemd,
> user.  I also use lvm (I have / and /usr combined on a non-lvm
> partition).
> 
> At the point where you choose a profile
> (//wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Choosing_the_right_profile)
> I selected
> [5]   default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd *
> 
> But now I get merge conflicts since I have sys-fs/udev installed.
> I can't depclean udev.

Did you read this part?

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Optional:_Using_systemd

It's been some months since I last did this, but I don't recall any
serious conflicts.

Why not just unmerge udev to avoid the blockage?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

You are a completely unique individual, just like everybody else.

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Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gottlieb]

On Sat, Jul 18 2015, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 8:00 PM, <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I am installing gentoo on a new laptop.  I am a gnome, hence systemd,
>> user.  I also use lvm (I have / and /usr combined on a non-lvm partition).
>>
>> At the point where you choose a profile
>> (//
> wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Choosing_the_right_profile
> )
>> I selected
>> [5]   default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd *
>>
>> But now I get merge conflicts since I have sys-fs/udev installed.
>> I can't depclean udev.
>>
>> Should I have just used the  default/linux/amd64/13.0 profile
>> and switched later after the installation is complete.
>>
>> Fortunately, I don't need to used the new machine immediately so I don't
>> mind starting the installation over from the beginning
>>
>> In a similar vein, my systems have PORTDIR=/var/portage.  Am I correct
>> in now believing that it is better to do the install with the default
>> PORTDIR=/usr/portage and then switching after the dust settles
>
> What I usually do is:
>
> 1. Extract the stage 3 tarball
> 2. Sync the portage tree
> 3. Switch to the systemd profile
> 4. emerge -uDNvp world (this usually solves the systemd/udev conflicts)
> 5. emerge --depclean
> 6. Switch to the GNOME/systemd profile
> 7. Emerge gnome-base/gnome
>
> In my experience, if you switch directly to the GNOME/systemd profile, you
> get many conflicts.

I certainly did.  I will try your indirect root to gnome/systemd.
If it works (and given the source I strongly suspect it will),
I will try to get it included in the systemd wiki.

> Regards.
> --
> Canek Peláez Valdés

Thank you,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gottlieb]

On Sun, Jul 19 2015, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:00:54 -0400, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
>
>> I am installing gentoo on a new laptop.  I am a gnome, hence systemd,
>> user.  I also use lvm (I have / and /usr combined on a non-lvm
>> partition).
>> 
>> At the point where you choose a profile
>> (//wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Choosing_the_right_profile)
>> I selected
>> [5]   default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd *
>> 
>> But now I get merge conflicts since I have sys-fs/udev installed.
>> I can't depclean udev.
>
> Did you read this part?
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Optional:_Using_systemd

Yes I did and had the systemd wiki page on a chromium tab while
installing.

> It's been some months since I last did this, but I don't recall any
> serious conflicts.
>
> Why not just unmerge udev to avoid the blockage?

I tried via depclean.  I wanted to ask here before actually trying
--unmerge, which seems rather brutal.  I actually had a tiny part in the
systemd wiki and remember that you could switch from an openrc system to
systemd without unmerging.  Instead, you either changed use flags
(+systemd and -consolekit) or went to the a systemd profile
(recommended).

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Jc García]

2015-07-20 19:13 GMT-06:00  <gottlieb@nyu.edu>:

> I tried via depclean.  I wanted to ask here before actually trying
> --unmerge, which seems rather brutal.  I actually had a tiny part in the
> systemd wiki and remember that you could switch from an openrc system to
> systemd without unmerging.  Instead, you either changed use flags
> (+systemd and -consolekit) or went to the a systemd profile
> (recommended).
It is needed to remove sys-fs/udev in order to get apps-sytem/systemd,
remember is the same code base the difference is you only compile one
part when emerging sys-fs/udev, not unmerging would cause file
conflicts, at install time.
sys-fs/udev/udev-222.ebuild:
SRC_URI="https://github.com/systemd/systemd/archive/v${PV}.tar.gz ->
${P}.tar.gz"

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:02 PM, <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jul 18 2015, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 8:00 PM, <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am installing gentoo on a new laptop.  I am a gnome, hence systemd,
> >> user.  I also use lvm (I have / and /usr combined on a non-lvm
partition).
> >>
> >> At the point where you choose a profile
> >> (//
> >
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Choosing_the_right_profile
> > )
> >> I selected
> >> [5]   default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd *
> >>
> >> But now I get merge conflicts since I have sys-fs/udev installed.
> >> I can't depclean udev.
> >>
> >> Should I have just used the  default/linux/amd64/13.0 profile
> >> and switched later after the installation is complete.
> >>
> >> Fortunately, I don't need to used the new machine immediately so I
don't
> >> mind starting the installation over from the beginning
> >>
> >> In a similar vein, my systems have PORTDIR=/var/portage.  Am I correct
> >> in now believing that it is better to do the install with the default
> >> PORTDIR=/usr/portage and then switching after the dust settles
> >
> > What I usually do is:
> >
> > 1. Extract the stage 3 tarball
> > 2. Sync the portage tree
> > 3. Switch to the systemd profile
> > 4. emerge -uDNvp world (this usually solves the systemd/udev conflicts)
> > 5. emerge --depclean
> > 6. Switch to the GNOME/systemd profile
> > 7. Emerge gnome-base/gnome
> >
> > In my experience, if you switch directly to the GNOME/systemd profile,
you
> > get many conflicts.
>
> I certainly did.  I will try your indirect root to gnome/systemd.
> If it works (and given the source I strongly suspect it will),
> I will try to get it included in the systemd wiki.

You'll probably still get some circular dependencies by USE flags, but
those should be few and portage will tell you how to break the cycle.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:13:19 -0400, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:

> > Did you read this part?
> >
> > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Optional:_Using_systemd  
> 
> Yes I did and had the systemd wiki page on a chromium tab while
> installing.
> 
> > It's been some months since I last did this, but I don't recall any
> > serious conflicts.
> >
> > Why not just unmerge udev to avoid the blockage?  
> 
> I tried via depclean.  I wanted to ask here before actually trying
> --unmerge, which seems rather brutal.  I actually had a tiny part in the
> systemd wiki and remember that you could switch from an openrc system to
> systemd without unmerging.

Sometimes you need to be brutal. Remember that udev is part of systemd,
which is why you cannot have both packages installed. After unmerging
udev, emerging systemd brings it back anyway. Your only window of risk is
something happening between those two operations, but since you are still
working in a chroot at this point, even that wouldn't matter.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Adolescence, n.: The stage between puberty and adultery.

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Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gottlieb]

On Mon, Jul 20 2015, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:02 PM, <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 18 2015, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 8:00 PM, <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am installing gentoo on a new laptop.  I am a gnome, hence systemd,
>> >> user.  I also use lvm (I have / and /usr combined on a non-lvm
> partition).
>> >>
>> >> At the point where you choose a profile
>> >> (//
>> >
> wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Choosing_the_right_profile
>> > )
>> >> I selected
>> >> [5]   default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/gnome/systemd *
>> >>
>> >> But now I get merge conflicts since I have sys-fs/udev installed.
>> >> I can't depclean udev.
>> >>
>> >> Should I have just used the  default/linux/amd64/13.0 profile
>> >> and switched later after the installation is complete.
>> >>
>> >> Fortunately, I don't need to used the new machine immediately so I
> don't
>> >> mind starting the installation over from the beginning
>> >>
>> >> In a similar vein, my systems have PORTDIR=/var/portage.  Am I correct
>> >> in now believing that it is better to do the install with the default
>> >> PORTDIR=/usr/portage and then switching after the dust settles
>> >
>> > What I usually do is:
>> >
>> > 1. Extract the stage 3 tarball
>> > 2. Sync the portage tree
>> > 3. Switch to the systemd profile
>> > 4. emerge -uDNvp world (this usually solves the systemd/udev conflicts)
>> > 5. emerge --depclean
>> > 6. Switch to the GNOME/systemd profile
>> > 7. Emerge gnome-base/gnome
>> >
>> > In my experience, if you switch directly to the GNOME/systemd profile,
> you
>> > get many conflicts.
>>
>> I certainly did.  I will try your indirect root to gnome/systemd.
>> If it works (and given the source I strongly suspect it will),
>> I will try to get it included in the systemd wiki.
>
> You'll probably still get some circular dependencies by USE flags, but
> those should be few and portage will tell you how to break the cycle.

Right I and to add the following to package.use

    # First merge of gnome 21 Jul 15
    >=media-plugins/grilo-plugins-0.2.13 upnp-av
    >=www-servers/apache-2.2.29 apache2_mpms_prefork

thanks again,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gottlieb]

On Tue, Jul 21 2015, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:13:19 -0400, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
>
>> > Did you read this part?
>> >
>> > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Optional:_Using_systemd
>> 
>> Yes I did and had the systemd wiki page on a chromium tab while
>> installing.
>> 
>> > It's been some months since I last did this, but I don't recall any
>> > serious conflicts.
>> >
>> > Why not just unmerge udev to avoid the blockage?  
>> 
>> I tried via depclean.  I wanted to ask here before actually trying
>> --unmerge, which seems rather brutal.  I actually had a tiny part in the
>> systemd wiki and remember that you could switch from an openrc system to
>> systemd without unmerging.
>
> Sometimes you need to be brutal.

I suppose so.

> Remember that udev is part of systemd, which is why you cannot have
> both packages installed. After unmerging udev, emerging systemd brings
> it back anyway. Your only window of risk is something happening
> between those two operations, but since you are still working in a
> chroot at this point, even that wouldn't matter.

Probably the --unmerge would have worked.  But I basically started over
(untar of the stage3) and applied canek two-step recipe
   First switch to the systemd profile and emerge world
   Second switch to the gnome/system profile and emerge gnome

It worked well.

thanks again,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Jc García]

2015-07-21 14:23 GMT-06:00  <gottlieb@nyu.edu>:
> Probably the --unmerge would have worked.  But I basically started over
> (untar of the stage3) and applied canek two-step recipe
>    First switch to the systemd profile and emerge world
>    Second switch to the gnome/system profile and emerge gnome
>
> It worked well.
I guess It worked for you well, that's nice, I just want to add you
shouldn't have taken Kanek's description as a full recipe, he didn't
wrote it but, doing the systemd, and stardard install configuration
before emerging gnome, is importat for many users, especially if en_US
is not your native language[1], and you want to reduce the amount of
to compile/install packages by settings like VIDEO_CARDS,
INPUT_DEVICES, etc .

Again nice you had the default configuration match want you wanted.

[1] http://www.quickmeme.com/img/94/942b064a249d63afe19d3165a088d58ae1c9c5179d98b1fb9072db3dcf5115ed.jpg
( a fun meme of what I'm talking about)

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gottlieb]

On Tue, Jul 21 2015, Jc García wrote:

> 2015-07-21 14:23 GMT-06:00  <gottlieb@nyu.edu>:
>> Probably the --unmerge would have worked.  But I basically started over
>> (untar of the stage3) and applied canek two-step recipe
>>    First switch to the systemd profile and emerge world
>>    Second switch to the gnome/system profile and emerge gnome
>>
>> It worked well.
> I guess It worked for you well, that's nice, I just want to add you
> shouldn't have taken Kanek's description as a full recipe, he didn't
> wrote it but, doing the systemd, and stardard install configuration
> before emerging gnome, is importat for many users, especially if en_US
> is not your native language[1], and you want to reduce the amount of
> to compile/install packages by settings like VIDEO_CARDS,
> INPUT_DEVICES, etc .
>
> Again nice you had the default configuration match want you wanted.

Canek didn't call it a full recipe; he just said it was what he usually
does.  Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully.

Also I was only talking about the step in the installation guide where
called "choosing the right profile".  Locales comes later.

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 21 July 2015 19:06:10 gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21 2015, Jc García wrote:
> > 2015-07-21 14:23 GMT-06:00  <gottlieb@nyu.edu>:
> >> Probably the --unmerge would have worked.  But I basically started over
> >> (untar of the stage3) and applied canek two-step recipe
> >> 
> >>    First switch to the systemd profile and emerge world
> >>    Second switch to the gnome/system profile and emerge gnome
> >> 
> >> It worked well.
> > 
> > I guess It worked for you well, that's nice, I just want to add you
> > shouldn't have taken Kanek's description as a full recipe, he didn't
> > wrote it but, doing the systemd, and stardard install configuration
> > before emerging gnome, is importat for many users, especially if en_US
> > is not your native language[1], and you want to reduce the amount of
> > to compile/install packages by settings like VIDEO_CARDS,
> > INPUT_DEVICES, etc .
> > 
> > Again nice you had the default configuration match want you wanted.
> 
> Canek didn't call it a full recipe; he just said it was what he usually
> does.  Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully.

I don't think so. It was clear enough to me.

But this conversation touches on a more general point: which profile is best at 
each stage of an installation? I've had to rebuild my KDE system a few times 
recently (at least I thought I did at the time, but that's another story). I 
settled on a vanilla profile in the early stages, with USE=-X  in make.conf, 
then changed it to +X and installed xorg-server. Then I switched to the KDE 
desktop profile and installed KDE, finally adding all the bits and pieces that 
go to make up a complete system. Last of all, an emerge -e world tidied 
everything up neatly.

The installation handbook could be clearer on this.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:23:56 -0400, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:

> > Remember that udev is part of systemd, which is why you cannot have
> > both packages installed. After unmerging udev, emerging systemd brings
> > it back anyway. Your only window of risk is something happening
> > between those two operations, but since you are still working in a
> > chroot at this point, even that wouldn't matter.  
> 
> Probably the --unmerge would have worked.  But I basically started over
> (untar of the stage3) and applied canek two-step recipe
>    First switch to the systemd profile and emerge world
>    Second switch to the gnome/system profile and emerge gnome
> 
> It worked well.

Glad it worked for you. I don't use GNOME, so that was an extra layer of
trouble I didn't have to deal with.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

When you finally buy enough memory, you will not have enough disk space.
 -- Murphy's Computer Laws n\xB03

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Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[Jc García]

2015-07-21 17:06 GMT-06:00  <gottlieb@nyu.edu>:

> Also I was only talking about the step in the installation guide where
> called "choosing the right profile".  Locales comes later.
>
LOCALE is one thing, LINGUAS and stuff that goes into make.conf is
another, the result of not having linguas set almost imediatly, is
when you set the locale, the applications will reset to LANG=C,
because many of the translations are in e.g. *.po files processed
optionally at compile time, thus not setting it would effectivelly
mean a complete rebuild of gnome(and many other applications) in order
to get the translations. this was my point, but as I said, good the
default I what you needed.

Re: [gentoo-user] installing gentoo with a systemd profile

[gottlieb]

On Tue, Jul 21 2015, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> But this conversation touches on a more general point: which profile
> is best at each stage of an installation? I've had to rebuild my KDE
> system a few times recently (at least I thought I did at the time, but
> that's another story). I settled on a vanilla profile in the early
> stages, with USE=-X in make.conf, then changed it to +X and installed
> xorg-server. Then I switched to the KDE desktop profile and installed
> KDE, finally adding all the bits and pieces that go to make up a
> complete system. Last of all, an emerge -e world tidied everything up
> neatly.
>
> The installation handbook could be clearer on this.

Indeed.  It would probably be too much to ask that it mentions each case
separately, but it could include a general comment that taking a few
smaller steps can be easier than going directly to the final profile.

allan