[gentoo-user] OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[gentoo-user] OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Daniel Frey]

Hi all,

Not really Gentoo-related (well except the overheating part - lots of
compiling ;-) )

I have a very old laptop. It is an LG F1 laptop (circa 2005/2006 I
believe) about nine years old. This has a Core2 1.6GHz chip and 4GB RAM,
even though it only sees 3GB (that should tell you it's pretty old!)

Anyway, I noticed during my last compile-fest on my laptop (reinstalled,
switched to systemd for testing) that a corner of the laptop is getting
really hot. We are talking a fair bit of heat here, you can't keep it on
your lap when it warms up.

So I took it apart yesterday, figuring I should re-do the thermal paste.
During this process, I discovered it's the southbridge ICH chip that's
overheating. There's no cooler at all on this chip (the northbridge and
CPU have heat piping), it's a bare chip.

Now, I suspect there's not much I can do about this given it being a
laptop and I might have to resign myself to the fact that I'm going to
have to buy a laptop later this year/early next year.

I am curious though, what causes this chip to overheat, and can I do
something about it?

I'm using lm_sensors, which doesn't provide a temperature for this
particular chip. I've monitored processes and nothing really stands out.
I've even tried disabling plasma, no luck.

Dan

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[James]

Daniel Frey <djqfrey <at> gmail.com> writes:
 
> Hi all,

> I am curious though, what causes this chip to overheat, and can I do
> something about it?

There may be a generic processor fan you can mount/glue onto the chip
for cooling. Make sure all other fans are running. Blow out the laptop
with an air compressor. Sometime to add more cooling, I'd get a couple of
pieces of 1/2" x 1/2" wood and place under the laptop to increase the air
space under the laptop for increase air circulation.

HAVIT® HV-F2056 15.6"-17" Laptop Cooler - Three Quiet 110mm Fans at 1,000RPM, 

Last, I think some folks make a "cooling pad" for laptops. If you have
agressive compile options (like mine MAKEOPTS="-j9 -l9") in your 
make.conf, slow them way down (-j1) etc.


> I'm using lm_sensors, which doesn't provide a temperature for this
> particular chip. I've monitored processes and nothing really stands out.
> I've even tried disabling plasma, no luck.


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Alan McKinnon]

On 08/06/2015 06:05, James wrote:
> Daniel Frey <djqfrey <at> gmail.com> writes:
>  
>> Hi all,
> 
>> I am curious though, what causes this chip to overheat, and can I do
>> something about it?
> 
> There may be a generic processor fan you can mount/glue onto the chip
> for cooling. Make sure all other fans are running. Blow out the laptop
> with an air compressor. Sometime to add more cooling, I'd get a couple of
> pieces of 1/2" x 1/2" wood and place under the laptop to increase the air
> space under the laptop for increase air circulation.
> 
> HAVIT® HV-F2056 15.6"-17" Laptop Cooler - Three Quiet 110mm Fans at 1,000RPM, 
> 
> Last, I think some folks make a "cooling pad" for laptops. If you have
> agressive compile options (like mine MAKEOPTS="-j9 -l9") in your 
> make.conf, slow them way down (-j1) etc.

Good advice.

When designing their latop, LG probably never considered what Gentoo
users would do to it :-)
> 
> 
>> I'm using lm_sensors, which doesn't provide a temperature for this
>> particular chip. I've monitored processes and nothing really stands out.
>> I've even tried disabling plasma, no luck.
> 
> 
> hth,
> James
> 


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

RE: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Franz Fellner]

James wrote:
> Daniel Frey <djqfrey <at> gmail.com> writes:
>  
> > Hi all,
> 
> > I am curious though, what causes this chip to overheat, and can I do
> > something about it?
> 
> There may be a generic processor fan you can mount/glue onto the chip
> for cooling. Make sure all other fans are running. Blow out the laptop
> with an air compressor.

If you really blow out your laptop make sure the fans are fixed. If they
start turning while you blow into them they really can destroy your hardware.
Induction can be really bad ;)

> Sometime to add more cooling, I'd get a couple of
> pieces of 1/2" x 1/2" wood and place under the laptop to increase the air
> space under the laptop for increase air circulation.
> 
> HAVIT® HV-F2056 15.6"-17" Laptop Cooler - Three Quiet 110mm Fans at 1,000RPM, 
> 
> Last, I think some folks make a "cooling pad" for laptops. If you have
> agressive compile options (like mine MAKEOPTS="-j9 -l9") in your 
> make.conf, slow them way down (-j1) etc.
> 
> 
> > I'm using lm_sensors, which doesn't provide a temperature for this
> > particular chip. I've monitored processes and nothing really stands out.
> > I've even tried disabling plasma, no luck.
> 
> 
> hth,
> James

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[James]

Franz Fellner <alpine.art.de <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> James wrote:

> > There may be a generic processor fan you can mount/glue onto the chip
> > for cooling. Make sure all other fans are running. Blow out the laptop
> > with an air compressor.
> 
> If you really blow out your laptop make sure the fans are fixed. If they
> start turning while you blow into them they really can destroy your hardware.
> Induction can be really bad ;)


If it does not have "diodes" in the circuits for power elements, shunting
excess (reverse) power to ground, it's a piece of crap and would most likely
die in a few years. It's pretty much routine engineering.....

But yes, fans should only get a short burst of air at a time to avoid
overspin and mechanical failure. Some may need to be replaced with
better quality components. Most are metric, so just look online at diagrams,
measure and replace as necessary. Most good computer shops
will have an abundance of new fans they have gotten in kits that are
not being used. If you do not hire the shop to replace, but just 
purchase the fans locally (used) there usually a few bucks in a technicians
pocket.......


hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Mick]

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On Monday 08 Jun 2015 13:03:53 James wrote:
> Franz Fellner <alpine.art.de <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > James wrote:
> > > There may be a generic processor fan you can mount/glue onto the chip
> > > for cooling. Make sure all other fans are running. Blow out the laptop
> > > with an air compressor.
> > 
> > If you really blow out your laptop make sure the fans are fixed. If they
> > start turning while you blow into them they really can destroy your
> > hardware. Induction can be really bad ;)
> 
> If it does not have "diodes" in the circuits for power elements, shunting
> excess (reverse) power to ground, it's a piece of crap and would most
> likely die in a few years. It's pretty much routine engineering.....
> 
> But yes, fans should only get a short burst of air at a time to avoid
> overspin and mechanical failure. Some may need to be replaced with
> better quality components. Most are metric, so just look online at
> diagrams, measure and replace as necessary. Most good computer shops
> will have an abundance of new fans they have gotten in kits that are
> not being used. If you do not hire the shop to replace, but just
> purchase the fans locally (used) there usually a few bucks in a technicians
> pocket.......
> 
> 
> hth,
> James

My laptop gets hot on big package emerge-fests, so on hot summer days I use a 
desk fan to blow air at it from the side.  The cooling effect is noticeable, 
4-5°C, or more if I recall right.

I also use a vacuum cleaner to suck out any dust from cooling fins and the 
entrance to CPU cooler once a week or so.

This has kept it going for some years now (keeps fingers crossed).

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Daniel Frey]

So many replies!

On 06/08/2015 11:22 AM, Mick wrote:
> On Monday 08 Jun 2015 13:03:53 James wrote:
>> Franz Fellner <alpine.art.de <at> gmail.com> writes:
>>> James wrote:
>>>> There may be a generic processor fan you can mount/glue onto the chip
>>>> for cooling. Make sure all other fans are running. Blow out the laptop
>>>> with an air compressor.

I cleaned it when I took it apart and reapplied thermal paste (which
worked wonders on the CPU and northbridge - idles at 35C ish now.)

> 
> My laptop gets hot on big package emerge-fests, so on hot summer days I use a 
> desk fan to blow air at it from the side.  The cooling effect is noticeable, 
> 4-5°C, or more if I recall right.

I think I'm going to invest in one of those cooling "docks". There does
appear to be vents in the general area of the southbridge chip, just no
fan or heatsink. This laptop is still working fine, as in I don't notice
hardware spottiness, so I'd rather not replace it. The processor itself
is fine speed-wise. I'd rather spend $20 on a cooler versus $1000+ on a
laptop. Cause I know when I go get one it'll be a quad core. :-)

I've also set up a distcc farm with 16 threads, that speeds compiling
right along. :-)

> 
> I also use a vacuum cleaner to suck out any dust from cooling fins and the 
> entrance to CPU cooler once a week or so.

I don't have pets any more, after the last pet died I didn't want to
repeat the anguish. So I'm lucky in that regard, I don't get fuzz in the
laptop. I was surprised how clean the fins on the heat pipe were,
actually...

> 
> This has kept it going for some years now (keeps fingers crossed).
> 

I hope to get a few more years out of this laptop. Lately I don't even
really use it that much compared to a year ago. Usually I set it up next
to my desktop when systemd fails on my main machine after an upgrade
(which has happened a few times in the past few months.)

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/07/2015 09:05 PM, James wrote:
> 
> Last, I think some folks make a "cooling pad" for laptops. If you have
> agressive compile options (like mine MAKEOPTS="-j9 -l9") in your 
> make.conf, slow them way down (-j1) etc.
> 

I picked up one of these in the store today:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7S92RB3559&cm_re=laptop_cooler-_-34-982-182-_-Product

I paid about half that price, though. The fans are movable so I've moved
one fan to the northbridge/cpu and one to the southbridge. I guess I'll
leave the laptop running for a while and see what happens.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/07/2015 09:05 PM, James wrote:
> HAVIT® HV-F2056 15.6"-17" Laptop Cooler - Three Quiet 110mm Fans at 1,000RPM, 
> 
> Last, I think some folks make a "cooling pad" for laptops. If you have
> agressive compile options (like mine MAKEOPTS="-j9 -l9") in your 
> make.conf, slow them way down (-j1) etc.
> 

Well, the cooling pad makes a big difference - at least I can rest my
wrists while typing again.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am 08.06.2015 um 00:15 schrieb Daniel Frey:
> Hi all,
>
> Not really Gentoo-related (well except the overheating part - lots of
> compiling ;-) )
>
> I have a very old laptop. It is an LG F1 laptop (circa 2005/2006 I
> believe) about nine years old. This has a Core2 1.6GHz chip and 4GB RAM,
> even though it only sees 3GB (that should tell you it's pretty old!)
>
> Anyway, I noticed during my last compile-fest on my laptop (reinstalled,
> switched to systemd for testing) that a corner of the laptop is getting
> really hot. We are talking a fair bit of heat here, you can't keep it on
> your lap when it warms up.
>
> So I took it apart yesterday, figuring I should re-do the thermal paste.
> During this process, I discovered it's the southbridge ICH chip that's
> overheating. There's no cooler at all on this chip (the northbridge and
> CPU have heat piping), it's a bare chip.
>
> Now, I suspect there's not much I can do about this given it being a
> laptop and I might have to resign myself to the fact that I'm going to
> have to buy a laptop later this year/early next year.
>
> I am curious though, what causes this chip to overheat, and can I do
> something about it?
>
> I'm using lm_sensors, which doesn't provide a temperature for this
> particular chip. I've monitored processes and nothing really stands out.
> I've even tried disabling plasma, no luck.
>
> Dan
>
>

are you sure it is overheating and not operating within spec?

A lot of laptops have 'hot spots'.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/08/2015 03:47 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> 
> are you sure it is overheating and not operating within spec?
> 
> A lot of laptops have 'hot spots'.
> 

I've had this laptop for a really long time, and it's getting hot where
I normally rest my right wrist while typing. I would have noticed this
shortly after I bought it way back when. When it heats up, I cannot rest
my wrist for more than a few seconds, that's not normal for this old beast.

I tend to use my laptop when it's updating and I've only noticed this
the last couple of times updating.

It may be different now that I've reapplied the thermal paste to the
northbridge & CPU. I've also picked up one of those cooling pads just in
case. I've set it up now to see if it makes any difference. I'll leave
the laptop running

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Sun, 07 Jun 2015 15:15:14 -0700
schrieb Daniel Frey <djqfrey@gmail.com>:

> Hi all,
> 
> Not really Gentoo-related (well except the overheating part - lots of
> compiling ;-) )
> 
> I have a very old laptop. It is an LG F1 laptop (circa 2005/2006 I
> believe) about nine years old. This has a Core2 1.6GHz chip and 4GB RAM,
> even though it only sees 3GB (that should tell you it's pretty old!)
> 
> Anyway, I noticed during my last compile-fest on my laptop (reinstalled,
> switched to systemd for testing) that a corner of the laptop is getting
> really hot. We are talking a fair bit of heat here, you can't keep it on
> your lap when it warms up.
> 
> So I took it apart yesterday, figuring I should re-do the thermal paste.
> During this process, I discovered it's the southbridge ICH chip that's
> overheating. There's no cooler at all on this chip (the northbridge and
> CPU have heat piping), it's a bare chip.
> 
> Now, I suspect there's not much I can do about this given it being a
> laptop and I might have to resign myself to the fact that I'm going to
> have to buy a laptop later this year/early next year.
> 
> I am curious though, what causes this chip to overheat, and can I do
> something about it?
> 
> I'm using lm_sensors, which doesn't provide a temperature for this
> particular chip. I've monitored processes and nothing really stands out.
> I've even tried disabling plasma, no luck.
> 
> Dan

With a Fujitsu Lifebook A530 that I lent from the University I had the problem
that it can overheat and actually shut down.  However, I semi-recently
discovered thermald, which has (in its default configuration state)
successfully kept it from overheating.  It can still get hot where the CPU is
(sensors say around 80°C), but never enough to actually overheat and shut down,
and with long running emerges, it gets more proactive such that the laptop
starts cooling down by 10-20°.  Maybe this tool can help further (especially if
you configure it explicitly)?

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Southbridge chip on laptop overheating

[Daniel Frey]

On 06/12/2015 12:32 AM, Marc Joliet wrote:
> With a Fujitsu Lifebook A530 that I lent from the University I had the problem
> that it can overheat and actually shut down.  However, I semi-recently
> discovered thermald, which has (in its default configuration state)
> successfully kept it from overheating.  It can still get hot where the CPU is
> (sensors say around 80°C), but never enough to actually overheat and shut down,
> and with long running emerges, it gets more proactive such that the laptop
> starts cooling down by 10-20°.  Maybe this tool can help further (especially if
> you configure it explicitly)?
> 
> HTH
> 

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into thermald as well. Anything to help
extend the life of this laptop a little further.

Dan