From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906A613877A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:47:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 757ECE0AE8; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:46:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EE6FE0876 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:46:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C073340209 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:46:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=-0.895, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XpTmilfmdvfb for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:46:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4094533FF71 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:46:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X14CL-0000ng-V1 for gentoo-user@gentoo.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 03:46:29 +0200 Received: from wsip-174-76-82-7.no.no.cox.net ([174.76.82.7]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 03:46:29 +0200 Received: from boxcars by wsip-174-76-82-7.no.no.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 03:46:29 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org From: =?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= Subject: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Mapping random numbers (PRNG) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 20:46:15 -0500 Organization: none Message-ID: <20140628204615.424f3b89@sepulchrave.remarqs> References: <20140606025619.GB3837@solfire> <20140606210329.GA1631@lyseo.edu.ouka.fi> <827EEF66-5787-4078-B18E-3D95F13B3902@iki.fi> <0ko38b-2a.ln1@hurikhan77.spdns.de> <87k380360p.fsf@nyu.edu> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: wsip-174-76-82-7.no.no.cox.net X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.23; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Archives-Salt: 67d17305-2bbc-4f93-907c-09ab0a840569 X-Archives-Hash: e8f189bf168d38f724bc44b847fa6007 On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 19:53:08 -0500 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 7:37 PM, wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 28 2014, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: > > > >> That doesn't matter. Take a non-negative integer N; if you flip a > >> coin an infinite number of times, then the probability of the coin > >> landing on the same face N times in a row is 1. > > > > This is certainly true. > > > >> This means that it is *guaranteed* to happen > > > > That is not as clear. > > Let me be more precise (and please correct me if I'm wrong): It is > guaranteed to happen at some point in the infinite sequence of random > flip coins, but we cannot know when it will happen, only that it will > happen. > > That's the way I got it when I took my probability courses, admittedly > many years ago. The probability is 1 in the sense that the as the number of flips M increases, so does the probability of getting N heads (or tails) in a row also increases, and the upper bound for the sequence of probabilities is 1. It's not a probability about something which actually happens; no one so far has been able to flip a coin an infinite number of times, not even a computer. > In any way, even if I'm wrong and it is not guaranteed, the main point > remains true: the probability of getting a large sequence of the same > number from a RNG is 1 for every true random RNG, and therefore seeing > a large sequence of the same number form a RNG doesn't (technically) > means that it is broken. It's true that that wouldn't *prove* the generator is broken. But it might be a good reason to take another look at the algorithm. > > Regards.