[gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[gottlieb]

I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I
do understand it correctly now.

The message ends with

  All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between:
  # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils'
  or
  # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
  However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower.

I first read "stay with sys-power/upower" to mean systemd users should
NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage "do
its thing".  However, portage want to replace upower with
upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd
users.

Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should
use the second option available for non-systemd users?  Specifically am
I to execute

    # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'

?

thanks in advance,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400
schrieb gottlieb@nyu.edu:

> I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I
> do understand it correctly now.
> 
> The message ends with
> 
>   All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between:
>   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils'
>   or
>   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
>   However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower.
> 
> I first read "stay with sys-power/upower" to mean systemd users should
> NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage "do
> its thing".  However, portage want to replace upower with
> upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd
> users.
> 
> Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should
> use the second option available for non-systemd users?  Specifically am
> I to execute
> 
>     # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> 
> ?

Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users
should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just
stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one
ATM, the older one is masked now).

> thanks in advance,
> allan
> 

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 06/24/2014 10:01:24 AM, Marc Joliet wrote:
> Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400
> schrieb gottlieb@nyu.edu:
> 
> > I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be  
> sure I
> > do understand it correctly now.
> >
> > The message ends with
> >
> >   All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between:
> >   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils'
> >   or
> >   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> >   However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with  
> sys-power/upower.
> >
> > I first read "stay with sys-power/upower" to mean systemd users  
> should
> > NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage  
> "do
> > its thing".  However, portage want to replace upower with
> > upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd
> > users.
> >
> > Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users  
> should
> > use the second option available for non-systemd users?   
> Specifically am
> > I to execute
> >
> >     # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> >
> > ?
> 
> Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd  
> users
> should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should  
> just
> stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is  
> only one
> ATM, the older one is masked now).
> 

Hi, please tell me - what is a systemd user?

I have systemd AND openrc installed here and I still don't use systemd  
as my
init system. Am I a systemd user?
I ask because I cannot installed some packages, some require  
upower-0.99.0
others fail with it.

Thanks,
Helmut

Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:08:29 +0200
schrieb Helmut Jarausch <jarausch@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>:

> On 06/24/2014 10:01:24 AM, Marc Joliet wrote:
> > Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400
> > schrieb gottlieb@nyu.edu:
> > 
> > > I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be  
> > sure I
> > > do understand it correctly now.
> > >
> > > The message ends with
> > >
> > >   All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between:
> > >   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils'
> > >   or
> > >   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> > >   However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with  
> > sys-power/upower.
> > >
> > > I first read "stay with sys-power/upower" to mean systemd users  
> > should
> > > NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage  
> > "do
> > > its thing".  However, portage want to replace upower with
> > > upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd
> > > users.
> > >
> > > Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users  
> > should
> > > use the second option available for non-systemd users?   
> > Specifically am
> > > I to execute
> > >
> > >     # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> > >
> > > ?
> > 
> > Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd  
> > users
> > should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should  
> > just
> > stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is  
> > only one
> > ATM, the older one is masked now).
> > 
> 
> Hi, please tell me - what is a systemd user?
> 
> I have systemd AND openrc installed here and I still don't use systemd  
> as my
> init system. Am I a systemd user?
> I ask because I cannot installed some packages, some require  
> upower-0.99.0
> others fail with it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Helmut

Well, in general, a user of software is to me somebody who actually uses it,
and doesn't merely have it installed, doing nothing.  So since you don't use it,
you... don't use it ;) .

In this particular case, my understanding from the previous discussion is that
UPower expects certain functionality from systemd at runtime (IIRC it doesn't
actually *need* systemd, it just assumes that it takes over the same
functionality as pm-utils).  So, specifically, a systemd user is to me
(and probably to most people) somebody who *boots* with systemd.

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Marc Joliet <marcec@gmx.de> wrote:
> Well, in general, a user of software is to me somebody who actually uses it,
> and doesn't merely have it installed, doing nothing.  So since you don't use it,
> you... don't use it ;) .

It actually isn't a dumb question.  Up until now there shouldn't be
issues with having both installed, and selecting between them at boot
time.  Apparently now we're starting to get diverging dependencies, so
your system won't work quite right if you boot the "wrong" init at
boot.

Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:09:12 -0400
schrieb Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>:

> On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Marc Joliet <marcec@gmx.de> wrote:
> > Well, in general, a user of software is to me somebody who actually uses it,
> > and doesn't merely have it installed, doing nothing.  So since you don't use it,
> > you... don't use it ;) .
> 
> It actually isn't a dumb question.

I didn't think so, and I gave the definition *I* use.  Sorry if I implied
otherwise!

(My last sentence was in reference to Helmut writing "[...] I still don't use
systemd as my init system.[...]", which I thought was a bit of a silly
formulation, given his question :) .)

> Up until now there shouldn't be
> issues with having both installed, and selecting between them at boot
> time.  Apparently now we're starting to get diverging dependencies, so
> your system won't work quite right if you boot the "wrong" init at
> boot.

Which is where my second paragraph came in, pointing out that - and I'm
repeating myself here - that, to my understanding, it's not so much that upower
needs systemd, it's that it expects systemd to take over functionality that
upower used to provide via pm-utils (hibernation, etc.).  So it's a *runtime*
problem: if you boot with systemd, you should use plain upower, if not, it
depends on whether you need the functionality provided by pm-utils (which only
the user of a system can know).

Again, this is what I gathered from the previous looong upower discussion. You
*can* use the newer upower without systemd, but you'll be missing functionality
it used to provide via pm-utils (which is pretty much what Tom Wijsman said in
one message).

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/06/2014 10:08, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> On 06/24/2014 10:01:24 AM, Marc Joliet wrote:
>> Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400
>> schrieb gottlieb@nyu.edu:
>>
>> > I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I
>> > do understand it correctly now.
>> >
>> > The message ends with
>> >
>> >   All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between:
>> >   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils'
>> >   or
>> >   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
>> >   However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with
>> sys-power/upower.
>> >
>> > I first read "stay with sys-power/upower" to mean systemd users should
>> > NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage "do
>> > its thing".  However, portage want to replace upower with
>> > upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd
>> > users.
>> >
>> > Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users
>> should
>> > use the second option available for non-systemd users?  Specifically am
>> > I to execute
>> >
>> >     # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
>> >
>> > ?
>>
>> Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users
>> should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should
>> just
>> stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only
>> one
>> ATM, the older one is masked now).
>>
> 
> Hi, please tell me - what is a systemd user?




A systemd user is someone who has systemd installed and *is using it*

How can that be unclear?





> 
> I have systemd AND openrc installed here and I still don't use systemd
> as my
> init system. Am I a systemd user?
> I ask because I cannot installed some packages, some require upower-0.99.0
> others fail with it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Helmut
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[gottlieb]

On Tue, Jun 24 2014, Marc Joliet wrote:

> Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400
> schrieb gottlieb@nyu.edu:
>
>> I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I
>> do understand it correctly now.
>> 
>> The message ends with
>> 
>>   All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between:
>>   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils'
>>   or
>>   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
>>   However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower.
>> 
>> I first read "stay with sys-power/upower" to mean systemd users should
>> NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage "do
>> its thing".  However, portage want to replace upower with
>> upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd
>> users.
>> 
>> Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should
>> use the second option available for non-systemd users?  Specifically am
>> I to execute
>> 
>>     # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
>> 
>> ?
>
> Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users
> should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just
> stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one
> ATM, the older one is masked now).

I am embarrassed to say that I am still having trouble with this upower
business.
My profile is .../gnome/systemd and I have the
init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX so I am using
systemd.

right now I have sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 installed (the only version
below 0.99) and sys-power/upower-pm-utils NOT installed.

If I try to update world (see below), portage wants to install
sys-power/upower-pm-utils and uninstall sys-power/upower.

The output (below) suggests that gnome-shell requires this, but I read
the gnome-shell ebuild as permitting my current
sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 as an alternative.

If I try to
    # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
I get a conflict since several gnome packages (e.g. gnome-shell)
explicitly want <upower-0.99

Am I supposed to package-mask sys-power/upower-pm-utils?

The results shown are on a stable amd64 system (my previous msg
concerned another system that I am slowly converting from testing to
stable, but this msg only involves a fully stable system).

thanks in advance,
allan

================================================================

allan ~ # emerge  --keep-going --update --changed-use @world

These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:

Calculating dependencies... done!

[ebuild     U  ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE="emacs%* nls -xinerama" 2,556 kB
[nomerge       ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE="bluetooth cdr classic cups extras -accessibility" 
[nomerge       ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE="bluetooth i18n networkmanager (-openrc-force)" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7" 
[nomerge       ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE="introspection -ios" 
[blocks b      ]    sys-power/upower ("sys-power/upower" is blocking sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
[uninstall     ]     sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE="introspection -doc -ios" 
[ebuild  N     ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE="introspection -ios" 0 kB

Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/upower with systemd

[Marc Joliet]

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Am Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:33:02 -0400
schrieb gottlieb@nyu.edu:

> On Tue, Jun 24 2014, Marc Joliet wrote:
> 
> > Am Mon, 23 Jun 2014 20:39:13 -0400
> > schrieb gottlieb@nyu.edu:
> >
> >> I think I had first misinterpreted the news msg, but want to be sure I
> >> do understand it correctly now.
> >> 
> >> The message ends with
> >> 
> >>   All non-systemd users are recommended to choose between:
> >>   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace 'sys-power/upower-pm-utils'
> >>   or
> >>   # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> >>   However, all systemd users are recommended to stay with sys-power/upower.
> >> 
> >> I first read "stay with sys-power/upower" to mean systemd users should
> >> NOT do any of the two options for non-systemd users and let portage "do
> >> its thing".  However, portage want to replace upower with
> >> upower-pm-utils, which I am pretty sure is not intended for systemd
> >> users.
> >> 
> >> Is the proper reading of the news message, that the systemd users should
> >> use the second option available for non-systemd users?  Specifically am
> >> I to execute
> >> 
> >>     # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> >> 
> >> ?
> >
> > Um, personally, I think the message is extremely clear: non-systemd users
> > should choose between the first two options, and systemd users should just
> > stick with plain upower, regardless of version (although there is only one
> > ATM, the older one is masked now).
> 
> I am embarrassed to say that I am still having trouble with this upower
> business.
> My profile is .../gnome/systemd and I have the
> init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX so I am using
> systemd.
> 
> right now I have sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 installed (the only version
> below 0.99) and sys-power/upower-pm-utils NOT installed.
> 
> If I try to update world (see below), portage wants to install
> sys-power/upower-pm-utils and uninstall sys-power/upower.
> 
> The output (below) suggests that gnome-shell requires this, but I read
> the gnome-shell ebuild as permitting my current
> sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 as an alternative.
> 
> If I try to
>     # emerge --oneshot --noreplace '>=sys-power/upower-0.99.0'
> I get a conflict since several gnome packages (e.g. gnome-shell)
> explicitly want <upower-0.99
> 
> Am I supposed to package-mask sys-power/upower-pm-utils?
> 
> The results shown are on a stable amd64 system (my previous msg
> concerned another system that I am slowly converting from testing to
> stable, but this msg only involves a fully stable system).
> 
> thanks in advance,
> allan
> 
> ================================================================
> 
> allan ~ # emerge  --keep-going --update --changed-use @world
> 
> These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
> 
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> 
> [ebuild     U  ] x11-wm/sawfish-1.9.1-r2 [1.9.1-r1] USE="emacs%* nls -xinerama" 2,556 kB
> [nomerge       ] gnome-base/gnome-3.10.0:2.0  USE="bluetooth cdr classic cups extras -accessibility" 
> [nomerge       ]  gnome-base/gnome-shell-3.10.4-r2  USE="bluetooth i18n networkmanager (-openrc-force)" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7" 
> [nomerge       ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE="introspection -ios" 
> [blocks b      ]    sys-power/upower ("sys-power/upower" is blocking sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2)
> [uninstall     ]     sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3  USE="introspection -doc -ios" 
> [ebuild  N     ]   sys-power/upower-pm-utils-0.9.23-r2  USE="introspection -ios" 0 kB

If you synced recently, its probably because upower-0.9.23-r3 is hard masked,
leaving no version of upower to satisfy the dependency, so it switches to
upower-pm-utils instead.  That would be my conclusion, at least.

I thought that maybe upower-pm-utils and upower are identical at that version,
but no, upower-pm-utils forces the pm-utils backend, whereas upower didn't.

I suppose you could unmask that version of upower until Gnome 3.12 is
stabilised, since gnome-shell-3.12.2 requires >=upower-0.99, so you will upgrade
automatically (I just checked and there's a relatively new bug on that, so who
knows how long it will take). I would expect switching to upower-pm-utils to
potentially cause problems with systemd, otherwise the recommendation wouldn't
be what it is.  Unless you don't actually use suspend or hibernate? Then it
might not matter at all.

Of course, I'm basing all of this on my understanding of the previous upower
discussion, so maybe I missed something, and maybe the exact situation for
Gnome users is slightly different.

Perhaps a dev can chime in?

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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