From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898261387FD for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 23:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 249E4E0AE0; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 23:35:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFB4EE0AA7 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 23:35:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD3033FD19 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 23:35:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at gentoo.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.145, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.535, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [IPv6:::ffff:127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bAllAKFenKSi for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 23:35:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2326433F2B1 for ; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 23:35:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WSas5-0000s6-TU for gentoo-user@gentoo.org; Wed, 26 Mar 2014 00:35:05 +0100 Received: from 108-248-189-54.lightspeed.clmasc.sbcglobal.net ([108.248.189.54]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2014 00:35:05 +0100 Received: from boxcars by 108-248-189-54.lightspeed.clmasc.sbcglobal.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 26 Mar 2014 00:35:05 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org From: =?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= Subject: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 18:34:50 -0500 Organization: none Message-ID: <20140325183450.78236ef8@sepulchrave.remarqs> References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5304576E.4000704@sporkbox.us> <5304A5DE.4050905@libertytrek.org> <5305FACC.8080705@libertytrek.org> <20140221095351.4eaad30312847d36674777 01@gmail.com> <20140320210027.415320eb@gentoo.org> <20140321022711.16e7ec0c8f115a6927107669@gmail.com> <20140320221532.4 741e138@gentoo.org> <20140320164848.0c3448d3@sepulchrave.remarqs> <532C1660.2000809@libertytrek.org> <20140325150850.5fe9c8d5@sepulchrave.remarqs> <53320256.8000009@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 108-248-189-54.lightspeed.clmasc.sbcglobal.net X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.22; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Archives-Salt: 9d9519be-78cd-45da-8ba7-4953f8dd0361 X-Archives-Hash: f65ea894bd141a49a6601ae67a7415fe On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 00:25:26 +0200 Alan McKinnon wrote: > On 25/03/2014 22:08, »Q« wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:37:20 -0400 > > Tanstaafl wrote: > > > >> On 3/20/2014 5:48 PM, »Q« wrote: > >>> Why should Gentoo have a default? > >> > >> Defaults are always a good idea - as long as they are reasonable > >> and rational. > > > > In that case, Gentoo is missing a lot of "good" things, from a > > default system logger to a default desktop environment. > > > > AFAICS, the benefit of defaults, provided they're reasonable, is > > that they remove the burden of making choices from the user. But I > > keep reading that Gentoo is all about user choice. > > You are conflating two things, it's actually quite disingenuous. > > Gentoo provides choice so you can do what you want. That doesn't > preclude providing a default that suits people who see no need to make > *that* choice for *them*, particularly when the thing being chosen is > necessary or almost so. Of course it doesn't preclude that; I'm sorry if implied that it did. > >>> ISTM the only good reason is that not having a default would make > >>> the documentation a lot more complicated. > >> > >> Documentation, *and* the install process itself. > > > > I'm not seeing that at all. > > You have to have *something* to be pid 1. the stage 3 might as well > provide one of those somethings that suits the common case > > You can make it /bin/bash if you want, but that would be a very niche > usage. The large majority of new installs will want a conventional > init system whether SysVinit-based or systemd based. Traditionally > SysVinit was the only real contender and baselayout/openerc were > originally written for Gentoo. So those are still the defaults. > > Without a default, the user must set one up manually for things to > work at all on first reboot. The install docs try hard to get the user > through the necessary steps to get a bootable system, a lot of effort > went into making the steps to accomplish that fewer, no more Requiring the fewest possible number of choices to get to a bootable system is a much better argument for a default than "defaults are always good".