From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF7B138E20 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 05:54:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F665E0AEA; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 05:54:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-f173.google.com (mail-lb0-f173.google.com [209.85.217.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73753E0AA1 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 05:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id s7so2016894lbd.4 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:54:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type; bh=ZXBPWZdWBJZa1Y9GpeZKniXYykxLGn5VUWk3Ys95NF4=; b=cvQMuiXkuH75iYpwj7H59ciS25T3VpUYjgrpLjXWu5d1G4AmVEpjuTd5Wo4rr4P27s 0CfLsvvi8azr9u69dpTLqSiggy+y8JCzHmTYhMcnPPmUvhSgrTRqxf2k6vTRIxvBITyW PE0MFbcnAKrxA3/o0bU2cGy7DpN+muR/45vZhy7dkvpbdAeiz9vy5WhYz8ZpC7SXvNtI 9UdxmWR4cVTllqwMZG0zCIIT/WTbME8TdEC38gtWsh0oUWkGB22hRFNGvGhRcdeJ37yY 7+Ca0WOszSS4/HzEoDw8vAf3sKyPC4s93dfe6oQyOQd8zsogb593RsNHuQRhlAiIz43u QzzQ== X-Received: by 10.152.6.132 with SMTP id b4mr3255212laa.64.1392962057438; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([198.46.152.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y2sm9024427lal.10.2014.02.20.21.54.12 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:54:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:53:51 +0400 From: Andrew Savchenko To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie Message-Id: <20140221095351.4eaad30312847d3667477701@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5304576E.4000704@sporkbox.us> <5304A5DE.4050905@libertytrek.org> <5305FACC.8080705@libertytrek.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.24.22; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="PGP-SHA512"; boundary="Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2014_09_53_51_+0400_/TzCubAkDk/51g11" X-Archives-Salt: 5ee4ac95-b262-441e-9534-693f084b04bc X-Archives-Hash: fc683eaabf6a462e17918f1fe7cfd125 --Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2014_09_53_51_+0400_/TzCubAkDk/51g11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:36:15 +0800 Mark David Dumlao wrote: [...] > > So, please, don't take it as an insult. In fact you have done a very go= od > > job of patiently spelling out the advantages of systemd, to the point I= 'm no > > longer afraid of it taking over and devouring the linux world. >=20 > If systemd truly is, as you say "taking over and devouring the linux worl= d" > such that the majority of distro maintainers are individually choosing > to use a feature or two from it, then yes, it definitely is the job of pe= ople > who want to opt out of it to do the work. >=20 > If Gnome wants systemd, and you don't, but you want to continue using > Gnome, it's _your_ job to look for a method or patch or package or script > that makes it work. 1. I do _not_ want to use Gnome (and never used it) as DE. 2. Someone called Lennart was a long-time Gnome contributor before Gnome required systemd without alternative. Coincidence? I don't believe in them. I trust probabilities and statistics. > If udev wants systemd, and you don't, but you want to continue using > udev, it's _your_ job to look for a method or patch or package or script > that makes it work. We have eudev fork which is clean from systemd crapware and works perfectly on production setutps. > If foo wants systemd, and you don't, but you want to continue using > foo, it's _your_ job to look for a method or patch or package or script > that makes it work. >=20 > If everybody else wants to use systemd but you, it's your job to keep > your system working the way you want to. Nobody else requires systemd mandatory now as to my knowledge. > Nobody's going to go out of their way to specifically and targettedly bre= ak > your system, because you don't like their way. However, you can co-opt > some package maintainer's way and say he's obligated to make a > "pure" and "systemd uncorrupted" system for you. Because he's not. >=20 > > Bottom line: since Gentoo's default and primary init system is (and > > hopefully will be for a very long time) OpenRC, it is on the systemd fo= lks > > to do the work to get systemd fully supported. > > >=20 > systemd IS supported and working. The problem arises when there are > people that want to push for a "system with no systemd whatsoever" > and act like it's the systemd maintainer's job to make that happen. OpenRC is default in Gentoo now, and it is my best hope it will be. Thus anyone willing to use something else should do an appropriate job. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko --Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2014_09_53_51_+0400_/TzCubAkDk/51g11 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTBuoCAAoJEFZZU7lTcnVs8fwP/AtxpN2nkkn3REM7HJeaGqB7 RHaq5RIypdvcWgT9tzOwc4Lx9qPMB6wCBYlhwJ3zLSxWMxbpzE/4q5NoYPrkNIS1 1aOeSXKy8/67omYujb1HJesuRnhwijFQidO5az2NycsKOev4H1COwsaLIH/uUx+6 V7p4/UBfZ0bzVmxVI8ATb5uvSnRi306b6ixKNpxpVk5sLXEKudk8pMX1hPDOAc1Q vnHOGJC7S6GVZ9xx3qQ3Z2lc9xjhIcxANlC/0bkwTjSihrEQ+7JeJvY5AgGwaoBa v34UNQ3b15XWb4qOigyzBcnYUncAP/Uw2Bi0m6DKQeoHoNCxVp3vmlTX2SGQbIw8 ZVUJs6mjtBnybAw6nGdo4vnqQF3N5TrnmN2f+XTx0nU//TFfbwcfHcoctvcvCjCp zvux33+pekTYR6SxOen49nVgbMNkOxPnDNqf/LeDoemeDgkhy+/IsmmvkU7l4/X+ bresfJy+skIQxLUdM2FuOR1VBvfemZHHd/eJn4Tby9Ls8CN3PNTppwoEq5GdEWFX VvAuxD1EoC9zkXqu2o+9Z+N53nAIPVW025NWl1dYHNZRql2kQ9CgcuDEF4BNyF9n 8FSBDLHjLjquZh8BfPyhuxmVHN7qhtMdhF1djnjoHZjO/3YQjDoKRBAiKAfvLSNg veeOtB/ga0+zIfokyoru =flrz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2014_09_53_51_+0400_/TzCubAkDk/51g11--