Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie

[Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@gmail.com>]

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On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 15:16:36 -0600 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Am 16.02.2014 21:08, schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
> >> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> >> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> [ snip ]
> >>> or it is an idiotic decision. Because features means complexity.
> >> Yeah, like the kernel.
> >>
> >>> Complexity means bugs.
> >> Bugs get reported, bugs get fixes. Life goes on.
> 
> You didn't answered this, did you?

Bugs are different. Bugs in the critical system components are
critical to the whole system. If Libreoffice or browser
segfaults, some data may be lost and inconvenience created, but the
system will continue to run. If PID 1 segfaults — everything is
lost, you have a kernel panic. That's why critical components should
be as simple and clean as possible.

SysVinit code size is about 10 000 lines of code, OpenRC contains
about 13 000 lines, systemd — about 200 000 lines. Even assuming
systemd code is as mature as sysvinit or openrc (though I doubt this)
you can calculate probabilities of segfaults yourself easily.

> >> All of them are different tools providing one capability to systemd as
> >> a whole. So systemd is a collection of tools, where each one does one
> >> thing, and it does it well.
> >>
> >> By your definition, systemd perfectly follows "the unix way".
> >>
> >
> > no, it isn't.
> >
> > How are those binaries talk to each other?
> 
> dbus, which is about to be integrated into the kernel with kdbus.

And this is a very, very bad idea. Looks like you don't know matter at
all: to begin with kdbus protocol is NOT compatible dbus and special
converter daemon will be needed to enable dbus to talk to kdbus. The
whole kdbus technology is very questionable itself (and was
forcefully pushed by RH devs), anyway it is possible to disable this
stuff in kernel and guess what will be done on my systems.

> > Looks broken. Broken by design. The worst form of broken.
> 
> By your opinion, not others.

That is not just an opinion. There is a science and experience behind
system's design. And all that science was ignored during systemd
architecture process if there was any at all.
 
Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

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