[gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Joseph]

Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?

I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB sick (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming faxes and now these emails are empty. 

It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(

-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Daniel Campbell]

On 02/04/2014 01:58 PM, Joseph wrote:
> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
> 
> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
> sick (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
> faxes and now these emails are empty.
> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
> 

systemd and udev are part of the same project, so I believe what you
meant was switching from systemd to OpenRC. I've not made such a switch,
but if you remember the steps you took, you can generally just reverse
them. That is, emerge openrc again, change the kernel line in GRUB to
point to regular init instead of systemd's init, reboot, and things
*should* fall into place.

USB drives mounting as root sounds like a udev thing rather than a
systemd thing, and switching to OpenRC for your init won't fix it afaik.
For the devices that you need this behavior for, it might be worth
looking into writing some udev rules. You can get a start by consulting
`lsusb` output and Googling for 'udev rules' to get a wide variety of
guides for writing udev rules. Despite the recent changes to udev by the
systemd team, udev still functions mostly the same and most guides will
be accurate.

I hope this helps!

~Daniel

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[gottlieb]

On Tue, Feb 04 2014, Daniel Campbell wrote:

> On 02/04/2014 01:58 PM, Joseph wrote:
>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>> 
>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
>> sick (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>> 
>
> systemd and udev are part of the same project, so I believe what you
> meant was switching from systemd to OpenRC. I've not made such a switch,
> but if you remember the steps you took, you can generally just reverse
> them. That is, emerge openrc again, change the kernel line in GRUB to
> point to regular init instead of systemd's init, reboot, and things
> *should* fall into place.
>
> USB drives mounting as root sounds like a udev thing rather than a
> systemd thing, and switching to OpenRC for your init won't fix it afaik.
> For the devices that you need this behavior for, it might be worth
> looking into writing some udev rules. You can get a start by consulting
> `lsusb` output and Googling for 'udev rules' to get a wide variety of
> guides for writing udev rules. Despite the recent changes to udev by the
> systemd team, udev still functions mostly the same and most guides will
> be accurate.
>
> I hope this helps!
>
> ~Daniel

There are changes in USE.   -systemd +consolekit
If you switched to a systemd profile, switch back.

The wiki for going from openRC --> systemd might be helpful
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd

allan

[gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[walt]

On 02/04/2014 02:29 PM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 04 2014, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> 
>> On 02/04/2014 01:58 PM, Joseph wrote:
>>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>>
>>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
>>> sick (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>>>
>>
>> systemd and udev are part of the same project, so I believe what you
>> meant was switching from systemd to OpenRC. I've not made such a switch,
>> but if you remember the steps you took, you can generally just reverse
>> them. That is, emerge openrc again, change the kernel line in GRUB to
>> point to regular init instead of systemd's init, reboot, and things
>> *should* fall into place.
>>
>> USB drives mounting as root sounds like a udev thing rather than a
>> systemd thing, and switching to OpenRC for your init won't fix it afaik.
>> For the devices that you need this behavior for, it might be worth
>> looking into writing some udev rules. You can get a start by consulting
>> `lsusb` output and Googling for 'udev rules' to get a wide variety of
>> guides for writing udev rules. Despite the recent changes to udev by the
>> systemd team, udev still functions mostly the same and most guides will
>> be accurate.
>>
>> I hope this helps!
>>
>> ~Daniel
> 
> There are changes in USE.   -systemd +consolekit
> If you switched to a systemd profile, switch back.

I'm sure that unsetting the consolekit useflag (when I switched to systemd)
resulted in some non-MicroSoft behavior, e.g. I now need to authenticate as
root when plugging or ejecting a USB stick, and yet again when I poweroff or
reboot the machine

Being the only user of this machine, I could work up some outrage over this
new PITA -- but I've decided not to be outraged.  I pretend to be a sysadmin
and imagine how I would feel if an arbitrary user demanded the ability to
plug any arbitrary USB stick into his corporate workstation.

Well, I'm not a corporate sysadmin, and never will be, but I think I'd be
reluctant to let him do it.

Any official sysadmins out there have an infallible opinion to offer?

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>
> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB sick
> (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
> faxes and now these emails are empty.
> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(

If I'm not mistaken, systemd/udev doesn't mount removable devices by
default, it just notifies the system about new volume and creates
links under /dev/disk. In GNOME 3 udisks is the one doing the actual
mounting (AFAIU); with GNOME 2 it was gnome-volume-manager, etc.

What DE do you use? Are you using something like pmount?

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 5:27 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/04/2014 02:29 PM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 04 2014, Daniel Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/04/2014 01:58 PM, Joseph wrote:
>>>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>>>
>>>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
>>>> sick (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>>>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>>>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>>>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>>>>
>>>
>>> systemd and udev are part of the same project, so I believe what you
>>> meant was switching from systemd to OpenRC. I've not made such a switch,
>>> but if you remember the steps you took, you can generally just reverse
>>> them. That is, emerge openrc again, change the kernel line in GRUB to
>>> point to regular init instead of systemd's init, reboot, and things
>>> *should* fall into place.
>>>
>>> USB drives mounting as root sounds like a udev thing rather than a
>>> systemd thing, and switching to OpenRC for your init won't fix it afaik.
>>> For the devices that you need this behavior for, it might be worth
>>> looking into writing some udev rules. You can get a start by consulting
>>> `lsusb` output and Googling for 'udev rules' to get a wide variety of
>>> guides for writing udev rules. Despite the recent changes to udev by the
>>> systemd team, udev still functions mostly the same and most guides will
>>> be accurate.
>>>
>>> I hope this helps!
>>>
>>> ~Daniel
>>
>> There are changes in USE.   -systemd +consolekit
>> If you switched to a systemd profile, switch back.
>
> I'm sure that unsetting the consolekit useflag (when I switched to systemd)
> resulted in some non-MicroSoft behavior, e.g. I now need to authenticate as
> root when plugging or ejecting a USB stick, and yet again when I poweroff or
> reboot the machine

This does not happen with GNOME 3. At all. The only time I'm asked for
my root password is when I add or remove a printer, and
app-admin/system-config-printer-gnome has been doing this since the
very beginning. I'm still hoping that someone fix that thing.

> Being the only user of this machine, I could work up some outrage over this
> new PITA -- but I've decided not to be outraged.  I pretend to be a sysadmin
> and imagine how I would feel if an arbitrary user demanded the ability to
> plug any arbitrary USB stick into his corporate workstation.
>
> Well, I'm not a corporate sysadmin, and never will be, but I think I'd be
> reluctant to let him do it.
>
> Any official sysadmins out there have an infallible opinion to offer?

With GNOME+systemd (and therefore, logind), the seat0 user gets
ownership of all removable devices (except printers, see above), and
the hardware buttons (poweroff, reset, suspend, etc.) No root password
asked. Ever.

You can see your seat with loginctl; if your seat is not seat0, that's
why your password is being asked. If it's seat0, then something else
is going on. Do you have pam_systemd.so enabled in /etc/pam.d?

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Joseph]

On 02/04/14 18:03, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>
>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB sick
>> (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>
>If I'm not mistaken, systemd/udev doesn't mount removable devices by
>default, it just notifies the system about new volume and creates
>links under /dev/disk. In GNOME 3 udisks is the one doing the actual
>mounting (AFAIU); with GNOME 2 it was gnome-volume-manager, etc.
>
>What DE do you use? Are you using something like pmount?
>
>Regards.
>-- 
>Canek Peláez Valdés
>Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

I'm using XFCE 
It all started to happen after I switched to systemd.  So maybe on the weekend I'll try to switch one of the machine back to udev.
I think all I need is to unmerge "systemd" and emerge "udev" without rebooting.

-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/04/14 18:03, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>>
>>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
>>> sick
>>> (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>>
>>
>> If I'm not mistaken, systemd/udev doesn't mount removable devices by
>> default, it just notifies the system about new volume and creates
>> links under /dev/disk. In GNOME 3 udisks is the one doing the actual
>> mounting (AFAIU); with GNOME 2 it was gnome-volume-manager, etc.
>>
>> What DE do you use? Are you using something like pmount?
>>
>> Regards.
>> --
>> Canek Peláez Valdés
>> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>
>
> I'm using XFCE It all started to happen after I switched to systemd.  So
> maybe on the weekend I'll try to switch one of the machine back to udev.
> I think all I need is to unmerge "systemd" and emerge "udev" without
> rebooting.

As others have said, udev *IS* systemd. It's the same code and
configuration [1].

And if you don't reboot after uninstalling systemd (while having
booted with it), I don't think your system will stay stable for much
longer.

I see that thunar depends on gvfs, which can use udisks or
gnome-disk-utility. Which one do you have? What does portage it says
when you do:

emerge -pv gnome-base/gvfs

If you have the gdu USE flag enabled, I recommend switching to udisks.
It's possible that it will fix everything, but I have never used Xfce,
so I'm not certain.

Regards.

[1] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/src/udev
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Joseph]

On 02/04/14 18:38, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/04/14 18:03, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>>>
>>>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
>>>> sick
>>>> (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>>>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>>>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>>>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>>>
>>>
>>> If I'm not mistaken, systemd/udev doesn't mount removable devices by
>>> default, it just notifies the system about new volume and creates
>>> links under /dev/disk. In GNOME 3 udisks is the one doing the actual
>>> mounting (AFAIU); with GNOME 2 it was gnome-volume-manager, etc.
>>>
>>> What DE do you use? Are you using something like pmount?
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>> --
>>> Canek Peláez Valdés
>>> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>>> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>>
>>
>> I'm using XFCE It all started to happen after I switched to systemd.  So
>> maybe on the weekend I'll try to switch one of the machine back to udev.
>> I think all I need is to unmerge "systemd" and emerge "udev" without
>> rebooting.
>
>As others have said, udev *IS* systemd. It's the same code and
>configuration [1].
>
>And if you don't reboot after uninstalling systemd (while having
>booted with it), I don't think your system will stay stable for much
>longer.
>
>I see that thunar depends on gvfs, which can use udisks or
>gnome-disk-utility. Which one do you have? What does portage it says
>when you do:
>
>emerge -pv gnome-base/gvfs
>
>If you have the gdu USE flag enabled, I recommend switching to udisks.
>It's possible that it will fix everything, but I have never used Xfce,
>so I'm not certain.
>
>Regards.
>
>[1] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/src/udev

I have: gnome-base/gvf with "gdu" flag disabled.
and sys-fs/udisks 
Installed versions:  2.1.0(2)(02:33:06 PM 12/28/2013)(gptfdisk introspection -cryptsetup -debug -selinux -systemd)

so it seems I have them both: gvfs and udisks.
Maybe I should enabled "systemd" flag in udisks since I"m using it already.

-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Joseph]

On 02/04/14 18:38, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

[snip]
>>
>> I'm using XFCE It all started to happen after I switched to systemd.  So
>> maybe on the weekend I'll try to switch one of the machine back to udev.
>> I think all I need is to unmerge "systemd" and emerge "udev" without
>> rebooting.
>
>As others have said, udev *IS* systemd. It's the same code and
>configuration [1].
>
>And if you don't reboot after uninstalling systemd (while having
>booted with it), I don't think your system will stay stable for much
>longer.
>
>I see that thunar depends on gvfs, which can use udisks or
>gnome-disk-utility. Which one do you have? What does portage it says
>when you do:
>
>emerge -pv gnome-base/gvfs
>
>If you have the gdu USE flag enabled, I recommend switching to udisks.
>It's possible that it will fix everything, but I have never used Xfce,
>so I'm not certain.

Do I need to put flag: systemd in make.conf file: USE="...
to enable it globally?

-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Poncho]

On 05.02.2014 01:10, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 5:27 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/04/2014 02:29 PM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 04 2014, Daniel Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/04/2014 01:58 PM, Joseph wrote:
>>>>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
>>>>> sick (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>>>>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>>>>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>>>>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> systemd and udev are part of the same project, so I believe what you
>>>> meant was switching from systemd to OpenRC. I've not made such a switch,
>>>> but if you remember the steps you took, you can generally just reverse
>>>> them. That is, emerge openrc again, change the kernel line in GRUB to
>>>> point to regular init instead of systemd's init, reboot, and things
>>>> *should* fall into place.
>>>>
>>>> USB drives mounting as root sounds like a udev thing rather than a
>>>> systemd thing, and switching to OpenRC for your init won't fix it afaik.
>>>> For the devices that you need this behavior for, it might be worth
>>>> looking into writing some udev rules. You can get a start by consulting
>>>> `lsusb` output and Googling for 'udev rules' to get a wide variety of
>>>> guides for writing udev rules. Despite the recent changes to udev by the
>>>> systemd team, udev still functions mostly the same and most guides will
>>>> be accurate.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this helps!
>>>>
>>>> ~Daniel
>>>
>>> There are changes in USE.   -systemd +consolekit
>>> If you switched to a systemd profile, switch back.
>>
>> I'm sure that unsetting the consolekit useflag (when I switched to systemd)
>> resulted in some non-MicroSoft behavior, e.g. I now need to authenticate as
>> root when plugging or ejecting a USB stick, and yet again when I poweroff or
>> reboot the machine
> 
> This does not happen with GNOME 3. At all. The only time I'm asked for
> my root password is when I add or remove a printer, and
> app-admin/system-config-printer-gnome has been doing this since the
> very beginning. I'm still hoping that someone fix that thing.
> 
>> Being the only user of this machine, I could work up some outrage over this
>> new PITA -- but I've decided not to be outraged.  I pretend to be a sysadmin
>> and imagine how I would feel if an arbitrary user demanded the ability to
>> plug any arbitrary USB stick into his corporate workstation.
>>
>> Well, I'm not a corporate sysadmin, and never will be, but I think I'd be
>> reluctant to let him do it.
>>
>> Any official sysadmins out there have an infallible opinion to offer?
> 
> With GNOME+systemd (and therefore, logind), the seat0 user gets
> ownership of all removable devices (except printers, see above), and
> the hardware buttons (poweroff, reset, suspend, etc.) No root password
> asked. Ever.
> 
> You can see your seat with loginctl; if your seat is not seat0, that's
> why your password is being asked. If it's seat0, then something else
> is going on. Do you have pam_systemd.so enabled in /etc/pam.d?
> 
> Regards.
> 

Concerning the printer permissions, see
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=466338

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1476 bytes --]

On Feb 4, 2014 7:28 PM, "Joseph" <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 02/04/14 18:38, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> I'm using XFCE It all started to happen after I switched to systemd.  So
>>> maybe on the weekend I'll try to switch one of the machine back to udev.
>>> I think all I need is to unmerge "systemd" and emerge "udev" without
>>> rebooting.
>>
>>
>> As others have said, udev *IS* systemd. It's the same code and
>> configuration [1].
>>
>> And if you don't reboot after uninstalling systemd (while having
>> booted with it), I don't think your system will stay stable for much
>> longer.
>>
>> I see that thunar depends on gvfs, which can use udisks or
>> gnome-disk-utility. Which one do you have? What does portage it says
>> when you do:
>>
>> emerge -pv gnome-base/gvfs
>>
>> If you have the gdu USE flag enabled, I recommend switching to udisks.
>> It's possible that it will fix everything, but I have never used Xfce,
>> so I'm not certain.
>
>
> Do I need to put flag: systemd in make.conf file: USE="...
> to enable it globally?

Supposedly, you should enable local flags per package in
/etc/portage/package.use, but many does put it on make.conf.

Either way, if you are using systemd, you *should* set the systemd USE flag
on everything, otherwise the package in question will try to use the
non-systemd implementation (if any), and that will (almost surely) fail
under systemd.

Regards.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1961 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3684 bytes --]

On Feb 4, 2014 7:30 PM, "Poncho" <poncho@spahan.ch> wrote:
>
> On 05.02.2014 01:10, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 5:27 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 02/04/2014 02:29 PM, gottlieb@nyu.edu wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Feb 04 2014, Daniel Campbell wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 02/04/2014 01:58 PM, Joseph wrote:
> >>>>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting
USB
> >>>>> sick (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the
permission.
> >>>>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all
incoming
> >>>>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
> >>>>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> systemd and udev are part of the same project, so I believe what you
> >>>> meant was switching from systemd to OpenRC. I've not made such a
switch,
> >>>> but if you remember the steps you took, you can generally just
reverse
> >>>> them. That is, emerge openrc again, change the kernel line in GRUB to
> >>>> point to regular init instead of systemd's init, reboot, and things
> >>>> *should* fall into place.
> >>>>
> >>>> USB drives mounting as root sounds like a udev thing rather than a
> >>>> systemd thing, and switching to OpenRC for your init won't fix it
afaik.
> >>>> For the devices that you need this behavior for, it might be worth
> >>>> looking into writing some udev rules. You can get a start by
consulting
> >>>> `lsusb` output and Googling for 'udev rules' to get a wide variety of
> >>>> guides for writing udev rules. Despite the recent changes to udev by
the
> >>>> systemd team, udev still functions mostly the same and most guides
will
> >>>> be accurate.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope this helps!
> >>>>
> >>>> ~Daniel
> >>>
> >>> There are changes in USE.   -systemd +consolekit
> >>> If you switched to a systemd profile, switch back.
> >>
> >> I'm sure that unsetting the consolekit useflag (when I switched to
systemd)
> >> resulted in some non-MicroSoft behavior, e.g. I now need to
authenticate as
> >> root when plugging or ejecting a USB stick, and yet again when I
poweroff or
> >> reboot the machine
> >
> > This does not happen with GNOME 3. At all. The only time I'm asked for
> > my root password is when I add or remove a printer, and
> > app-admin/system-config-printer-gnome has been doing this since the
> > very beginning. I'm still hoping that someone fix that thing.
> >
> >> Being the only user of this machine, I could work up some outrage over
this
> >> new PITA -- but I've decided not to be outraged.  I pretend to be a
sysadmin
> >> and imagine how I would feel if an arbitrary user demanded the ability
to
> >> plug any arbitrary USB stick into his corporate workstation.
> >>
> >> Well, I'm not a corporate sysadmin, and never will be, but I think I'd
be
> >> reluctant to let him do it.
> >>
> >> Any official sysadmins out there have an infallible opinion to offer?
> >
> > With GNOME+systemd (and therefore, logind), the seat0 user gets
> > ownership of all removable devices (except printers, see above), and
> > the hardware buttons (poweroff, reset, suspend, etc.) No root password
> > asked. Ever.
> >
> > You can see your seat with loginctl; if your seat is not seat0, that's
> > why your password is being asked. If it's seat0, then something else
> > is going on. Do you have pam_systemd.so enabled in /etc/pam.d?
> >
> > Regards.
> >
>
> Concerning the printer permissions, see
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=466338

Thanks, I will take a look.

Regards.

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Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Joseph]

On 02/04/14 18:03, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>
>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB sick
>> (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>
>If I'm not mistaken, systemd/udev doesn't mount removable devices by
>default, it just notifies the system about new volume and creates
>links under /dev/disk. In GNOME 3 udisks is the one doing the actual
>mounting (AFAIU); with GNOME 2 it was gnome-volume-manager, etc.
>
>What DE do you use? Are you using something like pmount?
>
>Regards.
>-- 
>Canek Peláez Valdés
>Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

I don't have "pmount" installed, and I'm not sure what XFCE4 is using.
How to find out?	


-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Feb 4, 2014 7:38 PM, "Joseph" <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 02/04/14 18:03, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is it possible to go from "systemd" to "udev"?
>>>
>>> I don't like the way systemd works.  I have a problem with mounting USB
sick
>>> (it mounts as root:root) and I can not even change the permission.
>>> I am receiving Hylafax fax transmission reports (email) on all incoming
>>> faxes and now these emails are empty.
>>> It all start happening after switching to systemd :-(
>>
>>
>> If I'm not mistaken, systemd/udev doesn't mount removable devices by
>> default, it just notifies the system about new volume and creates
>> links under /dev/disk. In GNOME 3 udisks is the one doing the actual
>> mounting (AFAIU); with GNOME 2 it was gnome-volume-manager, etc.
>>
>> What DE do you use? Are you using something like pmount?
>>
>> Regards.
>> --
>> Canek Peláez Valdés
>> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>
>
> I don't have "pmount" installed, and I'm not sure what XFCE4 is using.
> How to find out?

It's using gvfs, the problem is probably that gvfs is trying to use the
non-systemd implementation (probably ConsoleKit) on a systemd machine. Re
emerge everything with the systemd USE flag and it probably will solve
itself.

I mentioned pmount only because we didn't know enough; now you told us that
you have gvfs, and that you didn't enabled systemd support for it even when
you are using systemd.

Regards.

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Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Joseph]

On 02/04/14 19:33, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

[snip]
>   >> emerge -pv gnome-base/gvfs
>   >>
>   >> If you have the gdu USE flag enabled, I recommend switching to
>   udisks.
>   >> It's possible that it will fix everything, but I have never used
>   Xfce,
>   >> so I'm not certain.
>   >
>   >
>   > Do I need to put flag: systemd in make.conf file: USE="...
>   > to enable it globally?
>
>   Supposedly, you should enable local flags per package in
>   /etc/portage/package.use, but many does put it on make.conf.
>
>   Either way, if you are using systemd, you *should* set the systemd USE
>   flag on everything, otherwise the package in question will try to use
>   the non-systemd implementation (if any), and that will (almost surely)
>   fail under systemd.
>
>   Regards.

After enable "systemd" flag in make.conf USE=
the following packages were rebuild:
sys-apps/busybox
sys-apps/dbus
sys-auth/pambase
sys-auth/polkit
sys-fs/udisks
sys-power/upower
gnome-base/gvfs

But now I have a BIG problem, I can not mount USB stick at all as user (only as root).
Eject doesn't work either.
	
-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/04/14 19:33, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>
>>   >> emerge -pv gnome-base/gvfs
>>
>>   >>
>>   >> If you have the gdu USE flag enabled, I recommend switching to
>>   udisks.
>>   >> It's possible that it will fix everything, but I have never used
>>   Xfce,
>>   >> so I'm not certain.
>>   >
>>   >
>>   > Do I need to put flag: systemd in make.conf file: USE="...
>>   > to enable it globally?
>>
>>   Supposedly, you should enable local flags per package in
>>   /etc/portage/package.use, but many does put it on make.conf.
>>
>>   Either way, if you are using systemd, you *should* set the systemd USE
>>   flag on everything, otherwise the package in question will try to use
>>   the non-systemd implementation (if any), and that will (almost surely)
>>   fail under systemd.
>>
>>   Regards.
>
>
> After enable "systemd" flag in make.conf USE=
> the following packages were rebuild:
> sys-apps/busybox
> sys-apps/dbus
> sys-auth/pambase
> sys-auth/polkit
> sys-fs/udisks
> sys-power/upower
> gnome-base/gvfs
>
> But now I have a BIG problem, I can not mount USB stick at all as user (only
> as root).
> Eject doesn't work either.

Did you rebooted?

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Joseph]

On 02/04/14 20:06, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Joseph <syscon780@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/04/14 19:33, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>>
>>>   >> emerge -pv gnome-base/gvfs
>>>
>>>   >>
>>>   >> If you have the gdu USE flag enabled, I recommend switching to
>>>   udisks.
>>>   >> It's possible that it will fix everything, but I have never used
>>>   Xfce,
>>>   >> so I'm not certain.
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   > Do I need to put flag: systemd in make.conf file: USE="...
>>>   > to enable it globally?
>>>
>>>   Supposedly, you should enable local flags per package in
>>>   /etc/portage/package.use, but many does put it on make.conf.
>>>
>>>   Either way, if you are using systemd, you *should* set the systemd USE
>>>   flag on everything, otherwise the package in question will try to use
>>>   the non-systemd implementation (if any), and that will (almost surely)
>>>   fail under systemd.
>>>
>>>   Regards.
>>
>>
>> After enable "systemd" flag in make.conf USE=
>> the following packages were rebuild:
>> sys-apps/busybox
>> sys-apps/dbus
>> sys-auth/pambase
>> sys-auth/polkit
>> sys-fs/udisks
>> sys-power/upower
>> gnome-base/gvfs
>>
>> But now I have a BIG problem, I can not mount USB stick at all as user (only
>> as root).
>> Eject doesn't work either.
>
>Did you rebooted?
>
>Regards.
>-- 
>Canek Peláez Valdés
>Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>

Yes, I did.  
Should I reverse it? Remove flag "systemd" from make.conf and rebuild.


-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Alan McKinnon]

On 05/02/2014 01:27, walt wrote:
> Being the only user of this machine, I could work up some outrage over this
> new PITA -- but I've decided not to be outraged.  I pretend to be a sysadmin
> and imagine how I would feel if an arbitrary user demanded the ability to
> plug any arbitrary USB stick into his corporate workstation.
> 
> Well, I'm not a corporate sysadmin, and never will be, but I think I'd be
> reluctant to let him do it.
> 
> Any official sysadmins out there have an infallible opinion to offer?


I am a corporate sysadmin, and resisting that one is a waste of time.

"bring your own device" is all the current rage in corporate speak.
So it's The user's whole computer plus nothing of mine on the network
versus the users own USB stick plus the computer of mine on the network.
No brainer.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[J. Roeleveld]

On Wed, February 5, 2014 07:21, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 05/02/2014 01:27, walt wrote:
>> Being the only user of this machine, I could work up some outrage over
>> this
>> new PITA -- but I've decided not to be outraged.  I pretend to be a
>> sysadmin
>> and imagine how I would feel if an arbitrary user demanded the ability
>> to
>> plug any arbitrary USB stick into his corporate workstation.
>>
>> Well, I'm not a corporate sysadmin, and never will be, but I think I'd
>> be
>> reluctant to let him do it.
>>
>> Any official sysadmins out there have an infallible opinion to offer?
>
>
> I am a corporate sysadmin, and resisting that one is a waste of time.
>
> "bring your own device" is all the current rage in corporate speak.
> So it's The user's whole computer plus nothing of mine on the network
> versus the users own USB stick plus the computer of mine on the network.
> No brainer.

It's this "BYOD" thing why VLANs and multiple SSIDs are becoming more
popular.
Put all those BYODs on a seperate VLAN with limited access to the
corporate infrastructure and you can still ensure the security of your own
hardware.

--
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[walt]

On 02/04/2014 04:10 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 5:27 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I'm sure that unsetting the consolekit useflag (when I switched to systemd)
>> resulted in some non-MicroSoft behavior, e.g. I now need to authenticate as
>> root when plugging or ejecting a USB stick, and yet again when I poweroff or
>> reboot the machine
> 
> This does not happen with GNOME 3. At all. The only time I'm asked for
> my root password is when I add or remove a printer, and
> app-admin/system-config-printer-gnome has been doing this since the
> very beginning. I'm still hoping that someone fix that thing.
> 
> With GNOME+systemd (and therefore, logind), the seat0 user gets
> ownership of all removable devices (except printers, see above), and
> the hardware buttons (poweroff, reset, suspend, etc.) No root password
> asked. Ever.
> 
> You can see your seat with loginctl; if your seat is not seat0, that's
> why your password is being asked. If it's seat0, then something else
> is going on. Do you have pam_systemd.so enabled in /etc/pam.d?

I am seat0 (I forgot about loginctl, thanks) but I'm not sure what you
mean by "enabled in /etc/pam.d".  Many months ago I remember being confused
by the last line of system-auth:

#cat /etc/pam.d/system-auth
auth		required	pam_env.so 
auth		sufficient	pam_ssh.so
auth		required	pam_unix.so try_first_pass likeauth nullok 
auth		optional	pam_permit.so
 
account		required	pam_unix.so 
account		optional	pam_permit.so
 
password	required	pam_cracklib.so difok=2 minlen=8 dcredit=2 ocredit=2 retry=3 
password	required	pam_unix.so try_first_pass use_authtok nullok sha512 shadow 
password	optional	pam_permit.so
 
session		optional	pam_ssh.so
session		required	pam_limits.so 
session		required	pam_env.so 
session		required	pam_unix.so 
session		optional	pam_permit.so
-session        optional        pam_systemd.so

I don't understand the meaning of the '-' in the last line.  I didn't
put it there, except possibly by accident when falling asleep at the
keyboard :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Feb 5, 2014 6:23 PM, "walt" <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
[ snip ]
> I am seat0 (I forgot about loginctl, thanks) but I'm not sure what you
> mean by "enabled in /etc/pam.d".  Many months ago I remember being
confused
> by the last line of system-auth:
>
> #cat /etc/pam.d/system-auth
> auth            required        pam_env.so
> auth            sufficient      pam_ssh.so
> auth            required        pam_unix.so try_first_pass likeauth nullok
> auth            optional        pam_permit.so
>
> account         required        pam_unix.so
> account         optional        pam_permit.so
>
> password        required        pam_cracklib.so difok=2 minlen=8
dcredit=2 ocredit=2 retry=3
> password        required        pam_unix.so try_first_pass use_authtok
nullok sha512 shadow
> password        optional        pam_permit.so
>
> session         optional        pam_ssh.so
> session         required        pam_limits.so
> session         required        pam_env.so
> session         required        pam_unix.so
> session         optional        pam_permit.so
> -session        optional        pam_systemd.so
>
> I don't understand the meaning of the '-' in the last line.  I didn't
> put it there, except possibly by accident when falling asleep at the
> keyboard :)

The - is to make it optional; if the pam_systemd.so module is not
available, the - makes it so it is not a failure.

I'm more concerned about you being seat0, and you being asked for a
password. In theory that's what logind solves, and in a much more cleaner,
race-free and deterministic way than ConsoleKit.

Do you have systemd with the policykit USE flag? And polkit with the
systemd USE flag? (I suppose the later must have it).

If you do, can you please show us the output (make sure to do this inside
your DE session) from:

• loginctl seat-status

For example, mine shows:

seat0
        Sessions: *1
         Devices:
                  ├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXPWRBN:00/input/input5
                  │ input:input5 "Power Button"

├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/device:00/PNP0A08:00/LNXVIDEO:01/input/input14
                  │ input:input14 "Video Bus"

├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/device:00/PNP0C0C:00/input/input3
                  │ input:input3 "Power Button"

├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/device:00/PNP0C0D:00/input/input4
                  │ input:input4 "Lid Switch"
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/drm/card0
                  │ drm:card0
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/graphics/fb0
                  │ [MASTER] graphics:fb0 "inteldrmfb"
                  etc.

As you can see, the seat0 owns the Power Button, the Video Bus, the Lid
Switch, etc. If you own them, then you don't need authentication to use
them.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia en Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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Re: [gentoo-user] going from systemd to udev

[Pavel Volkov]

On Tuesday 04 February 2014 18:38:27 Joseph wrote:
> I don't have "pmount" installed, and I'm not sure what XFCE4 is using.
> How to find out?

You said that you have systemd installed, but did you actually *boot* systemd 
as init (PID 1)?

[gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[walt]

On 02/05/2014 06:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Feb 5, 2014 6:23 PM, "walt" <w41ter@gmail.com
> <mailto:w41ter@gmail.com>> wrote: [ snip ]
>> I am seat0 

> I'm more concerned about you being seat0, and you being asked for a
> password. In theory that's what logind solves, and in a much more
> cleaner, race-free and deterministic way than ConsoleKit.
> 
> Do you have systemd with the policykit USE flag? And polkit with the
> systemd USE flag? (I suppose the later must have it).

Yes systemd has polkit and polkit has systemd.
> 
> If you do, can you please show us the output (make sure to do this
> inside your DE session) from:
> 
> • loginctl seat-status
> 
> For example, mine shows:
<snippage>

<sigh>

wa1ter@a6:~ loginctl 
   SESSION        UID USER             SEAT            
         1       1001 wa1ter           seat0           

1 sessions listed.
wa1ter@a6:~ loginctl seat-status
Too few arguments.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:21 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/05/2014 06:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Feb 5, 2014 6:23 PM, "walt" <w41ter@gmail.com
>> <mailto:w41ter@gmail.com>> wrote: [ snip ]
>>> I am seat0
>
>> I'm more concerned about you being seat0, and you being asked for a
>> password. In theory that's what logind solves, and in a much more
>> cleaner, race-free and deterministic way than ConsoleKit.
>>
>> Do you have systemd with the policykit USE flag? And polkit with the
>> systemd USE flag? (I suppose the later must have it).
>
> Yes systemd has polkit and polkit has systemd.
>>
>> If you do, can you please show us the output (make sure to do this
>> inside your DE session) from:
>>
>> • loginctl seat-status
>>
>> For example, mine shows:
> <snippage>
>
> <sigh>
>
> wa1ter@a6:~ loginctl
>    SESSION        UID USER             SEAT
>          1       1001 wa1ter           seat0
>
> 1 sessions listed.
> wa1ter@a6:~ loginctl seat-status
> Too few arguments.

Sorry, obviously I meant:

   • loginctl seat-status seat0

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

[gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[walt]

On 02/06/2014 05:38 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:21 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/05/2014 06:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>> On Feb 5, 2014 6:23 PM, "walt" <w41ter@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:w41ter@gmail.com>> wrote: [ snip ]
>>>> I am seat0
>>
>>> I'm more concerned about you being seat0, and you being asked for a
>>> password. In theory that's what logind solves, and in a much more
>>> cleaner, race-free and deterministic way than ConsoleKit.
>>>
>>> Do you have systemd with the policykit USE flag? And polkit with the
>>> systemd USE flag? (I suppose the later must have it).
>>
>> Yes systemd has polkit and polkit has systemd.
>>>
>>> If you do, can you please show us the output (make sure to do this
>>> inside your DE session) from:
>>>
>>> • loginctl seat-status
>>>
>>> For example, mine shows:
>> <snippage>

$loginctl seat-status seat0
seat0
        Sessions: 1
         Devices:
                  ├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXPWRBN:00/input/input1
                  │ input:input1 "Power Button"
                  ├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/device:00/PNP0C0C:00/input/input0
                  │ input:input0 "Power Button"
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.1/sound/card0
                  │ sound:card0 "Generic"
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:11.0/ata3/host2/target2:0:0/2:0:0:0/block/sr0
                  │ block:sr0
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:11.0/ata3/host2/target2:0:0/2:0:0:0/scsi_generic/sg1
                  │ scsi_generic:sg1
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/usb4
                  │ usb:usb4
                  │ ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/usb4/4-5/4-5:1.0/input/input5
                  │ │ input:input5 "Lenovo Black Silk USB Keyboard"
                  │ └─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/usb4/4-5/4-5:1.1/input/input6
                  │   input:input6 "Lenovo Black Silk USB Keyboard"
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.2/usb1
                  │ usb:usb1
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.0/usb5
                  │ usb:usb5
                  │ └─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.0/usb5/5-1/5-1:1.0/input/input4
                  │   input:input4 "Logitech USB Trackball"
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2
                  │ usb:usb2
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.2/sound/card1
                  │ sound:card1 "Generic_1"
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.5/usb6
                  │ usb:usb6
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:15.1/0000:04:00.0/usb8
                  │ usb:usb8
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:15.1/0000:04:00.0/usb9
                  │ usb:usb9
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:16.0/usb7
                  │ usb:usb7
                  ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:16.2/usb3
                  │ usb:usb3
                  └─/sys/devices/virtual/misc/kvm
                    misc:kvm

Does systemd pay attention to groups these days?

$groups
disk lp wheel audio cdrom video games cdrw scanner lpadmin wireshark plugdev vboxusers wa1ter kvm

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 3:52 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/06/2014 05:38 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:21 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 02/05/2014 06:25 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>>> On Feb 5, 2014 6:23 PM, "walt" <w41ter@gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:w41ter@gmail.com>> wrote: [ snip ]
>>>>> I am seat0
>>>
>>>> I'm more concerned about you being seat0, and you being asked for a
>>>> password. In theory that's what logind solves, and in a much more
>>>> cleaner, race-free and deterministic way than ConsoleKit.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have systemd with the policykit USE flag? And polkit with the
>>>> systemd USE flag? (I suppose the later must have it).
>>>
>>> Yes systemd has polkit and polkit has systemd.
>>>>
>>>> If you do, can you please show us the output (make sure to do this
>>>> inside your DE session) from:
>>>>
>>>> • loginctl seat-status
>>>>
>>>> For example, mine shows:
>>> <snippage>
>
> $loginctl seat-status seat0
> seat0
>         Sessions: 1
>          Devices:
>                   ├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXPWRBN:00/input/input1
>                   │ input:input1 "Power Button"
>                   ├─/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/device:00/PNP0C0C:00/input/input0
>                   │ input:input0 "Power Button"
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.1/sound/card0
>                   │ sound:card0 "Generic"
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:11.0/ata3/host2/target2:0:0/2:0:0:0/block/sr0
>                   │ block:sr0
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:11.0/ata3/host2/target2:0:0/2:0:0:0/scsi_generic/sg1
>                   │ scsi_generic:sg1
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/usb4
>                   │ usb:usb4
>                   │ ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/usb4/4-5/4-5:1.0/input/input5
>                   │ │ input:input5 "Lenovo Black Silk USB Keyboard"
>                   │ └─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.0/usb4/4-5/4-5:1.1/input/input6
>                   │   input:input6 "Lenovo Black Silk USB Keyboard"
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:12.2/usb1
>                   │ usb:usb1
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.0/usb5
>                   │ usb:usb5
>                   │ └─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.0/usb5/5-1/5-1:1.0/input/input4
>                   │   input:input4 "Logitech USB Trackball"
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:13.2/usb2
>                   │ usb:usb2
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.2/sound/card1
>                   │ sound:card1 "Generic_1"
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.5/usb6
>                   │ usb:usb6
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:15.1/0000:04:00.0/usb8
>                   │ usb:usb8
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:15.1/0000:04:00.0/usb9
>                   │ usb:usb9
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:16.0/usb7
>                   │ usb:usb7
>                   ├─/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:16.2/usb3
>                   │ usb:usb3
>                   └─/sys/devices/virtual/misc/kvm
>                     misc:kvm
>
> Does systemd pay attention to groups these days?
>
> $groups
> disk lp wheel audio cdrom video games cdrw scanner lpadmin wireshark plugdev vboxusers wa1ter kvm

It does, but for desktops it's not the most important thing to assign
resources permissions. Groups are static, and you want dynamic
behavior to properly support multiuser systems.

Your seat seems to be the owner of both the power buttons and USB
devices, so you should not be asked for a password when powering down
the machine (unless another user or root is logged in, for example by
ssh), nor when using a USB stick.

I repeat my question (if you already answered I apologize), do you
have systemd emerged with the policykit USE flag?

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

[gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[walt]

On 02/07/2014 02:32 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> Your seat seems to be the owner of both the power buttons and USB
> devices, so you should not be asked for a password when powering down
> the machine (unless another user or root is logged in, for example by
> ssh), nor when using a USB stick.
> 
> I repeat my question (if you already answered I apologize), do you
> have systemd emerged with the policykit USE flag?

Well, I know more now but understand less :)  I recompiled both systemd
and polkit and they both have the correct useflags.

After rebooting I looked at /run/systemd/seesions/1 and I'm now "ACTIVE".

But next I startx (into xfce4) and look again:

$cat /run/systemd/sessions/1
# This is private data. Do not parse.
UID=1001
USER=wa1ter
ACTIVE=0    <=================== not active
STATE=online
REMOTE=0
TYPE=tty
CLASS=user
SCOPE=session-1.scope
FIFO=/run/systemd/sessions/1.ref
SEAT=seat0
TTY=/dev/tty1
SERVICE=login
VTNR=1
LEADER=431
AUDIT=1
REALTIME=1391814650100964
MONOTONIC=29998146

I think I remember having the same problem in the early days of consolekit
and I used some kind of policy editor to fix it, but I don't remember much
about it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:25 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/07/2014 02:32 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> Your seat seems to be the owner of both the power buttons and USB
>> devices, so you should not be asked for a password when powering down
>> the machine (unless another user or root is logged in, for example by
>> ssh), nor when using a USB stick.
>>
>> I repeat my question (if you already answered I apologize), do you
>> have systemd emerged with the policykit USE flag?
>
> Well, I know more now but understand less :)  I recompiled both systemd
> and polkit and they both have the correct useflags.
>
> After rebooting I looked at /run/systemd/seesions/1 and I'm now "ACTIVE".
>
> But next I startx (into xfce4) and look again:
>
> $cat /run/systemd/sessions/1
> # This is private data. Do not parse.
> UID=1001
> USER=wa1ter
> ACTIVE=0    <=================== not active
> STATE=online
> REMOTE=0
> TYPE=tty
> CLASS=user
> SCOPE=session-1.scope
> FIFO=/run/systemd/sessions/1.ref
> SEAT=seat0
> TTY=/dev/tty1
> SERVICE=login
> VTNR=1
> LEADER=431
> AUDIT=1
> REALTIME=1391814650100964
> MONOTONIC=29998146
>
> I think I remember having the same problem in the early days of consolekit
> and I used some kind of policy editor to fix it, but I don't remember much
> about it.

This is a known problem (or at least I heard something similar
before). You start your session when you log in, but then with startx,
that is lost in some cases because, technically, a VT session is
different from a X11 session (Wayland will take care of this, and many
other things). When you start your DE with gdm or lightdm, this
doesn't happen, because they talk to systemd (logind, actually) so
your session gets transferred to the X11 one. Supposedly, the Xfce
session manager (via startxfce4) has support for this, but only if
compiled with --enable-systemd, which is in turn supported by our
ebuilds.

So, a couple of questions:

  • Do you compiled xfce4-session with the systemd USE flag?
  • What do you have in $HOME/.xinitrc? I *think* it should just be
"exec startxfce4", if you used the systemd USE flag.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

[gentoo-user] Re: going from systemd to udev

[walt]

On 02/07/2014 04:43 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 5:25 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/07/2014 02:32 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>> Your seat seems to be the owner of both the power buttons and USB
>>> devices, so you should not be asked for a password when powering down
>>> the machine (unless another user or root is logged in, for example by
>>> ssh), nor when using a USB stick.
>>>
>>> I repeat my question (if you already answered I apologize), do you
>>> have systemd emerged with the policykit USE flag?
>>
>> Well, I know more now but understand less :)  I recompiled both systemd
>> and polkit and they both have the correct useflags.
>>
>> After rebooting I looked at /run/systemd/seesions/1 and I'm now "ACTIVE".
>>
>> But next I startx (into xfce4) and look again:
>>
>> $cat /run/systemd/sessions/1
>> # This is private data. Do not parse.
>> UID=1001
>> USER=wa1ter
>> ACTIVE=0    <=================== not active

> This is a known problem (or at least I heard something similar
> before). You start your session when you log in, but then with startx,
> that is lost in some cases because, technically, a VT session is
> different from a X11 session (Wayland will take care of this, and many
> other things). When you start your DE with gdm or lightdm, this
> doesn't happen, because they talk to systemd (logind, actually) so
> your session gets transferred to the X11 one. Supposedly, the Xfce
> session manager (via startxfce4) has support for this, but only if
> compiled with --enable-systemd, which is in turn supported by our
> ebuilds.
> 
> So, a couple of questions:
> 
>   • Do you compiled xfce4-session with the systemd USE flag?
>   • What do you have in $HOME/.xinitrc? I *think* it should just be
> "exec startxfce4", if you used the systemd USE flag.

#eix xfce4-session
[I] xfce-base/xfce4-session
     Available versions:  4.10.0-r1 4.10.1 {consolekit debug gnome-keyring policykit systemd udev +xscreensaver}
     Installed versions:  4.10.1(08:17:51 AM 01/11/2014)(systemd udev -debug -xscreensaver)
     Homepage:            http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/start
     Description:         A session manager for the Xfce desktop environment

$grep xfce .xinitrc
exec startxfce4

I follow several major linux distros as VirtualBox guests, and the only one
that doesn't force the use of a display manager is arch linux, so I use
startx on arch and I still see ACTIVE=1 in gnome3, cinnamon, etc.

I'll try to debug this over the weekend when I'm more awake :)

Thanks Canek.