[gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Walter Dnes]

  I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
* 1 LCD monitor 24"
* 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
* 1 ADSL router/modem

  What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  The stuff I'm
concerned about is the 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
execute /usr/sbin/hibernate

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Dienstag, 8. Januar 2013, 08:01:47 schrieb Walter Dnes:
>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
> there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
> * 1 ADSL router/modem
> 
>   What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  The stuff I'm
> concerned about is the 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
> short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
> the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
> execute /usr/sbin/hibernate

not really a recommendation just some facts:

Bluewalker/Powerwalker VI 1000 LCD 1000 VA PSU. 
Desktop (X4 955, 24gig, 3 HDD, 5SDD, HD5770) + 28'' Display + Fritzbox:

20+something minutes of normal desktop usage between power loss and battery 
low signal
nut shuts down system on battery low signal
enought time to cleanly shut down and turn off computer

only partially supported by nut. To turn the beeper on or off you have to use 
their java based powerwalker software. But the important things work (status, 
battery low).

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
> there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
> * 1 ADSL router/modem
>
>   What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  The stuff I'm
> concerned about is the 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
> short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
> the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
> execute /usr/sbin/hibernate

I personally have a Cyberpower 1350VA (with fancy LED display to show
current load, estimated time remaining, etc.). It is supported by NUT
in linux so my box can do a clean shutdown when the UPS battery is
running low. Running my big PC (with 7 HDDs RAID) it gives me around
30 to 45 minutes of life on battery before the shutdown kicks in. My
power outages at my house are generally either <5 seconds, or
hours/days with nothing in-between. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
>>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
>> there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
>> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
>> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
>> * 1 ADSL router/modem
>>
>>   What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  The stuff I'm
>> concerned about is the 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
>> short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
>> the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
>> execute /usr/sbin/hibernate
>
> I personally have a Cyberpower 1350VA (with fancy LED display to show
> current load, estimated time remaining, etc.). It is supported by NUT
> in linux so my box can do a clean shutdown when the UPS battery is
> running low. Running my big PC (with 7 HDDs RAID) it gives me around
> 30 to 45 minutes of life on battery before the shutdown kicks in. My
> power outages at my house are generally either <5 seconds, or
> hours/days with nothing in-between. :)

I will also add I had an Ultra brand UPS before (actually made by
Powercom), which was extremely cheap, I'm talking about $79 shipped
for 1500VA UPS, and it spontaneously stopped working one day, just
outside of the warranty period. It was not supported by NUT, the linux
software required binaries instealled to /etc and also to write its
logs to /etc and generally did not work well anyway. I will avoid
Powercom/Ultra UPS in the future.

At work we use APC brand UPS and they generally seem to work very
well, though they tend to be quite expensive.

[gentoo-user] Re: Any UPS recommendations?

[James]

Walter Dnes <waltdnes <at> waltdnes.org> writes:

> 
>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
> there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
> * 1 ADSL router/modem
> 
>   What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  

1000VA would be the minimum with the monitor connected.
The monitor spec should say what the power draw (amps)
is. Then determine the power draw of your workstation.
(a $50 amp meter from a hardware store will measure this).
If you do not wish to purchase the amp meter, just keep 
the packing and return it after use.

Do not plug a printer into the battery protected circuits
on the UPS, just the surge protection. Printers draw heavy
amperage for short durations that can kill a UPS.


> The stuff I'm
> concerned about is the 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
> short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
> the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
> execute /usr/sbin/hibernate.

http://www.networkupstools.org/docs/man/tripplite_usb.html

Triplite, my brand of choice, should work with NUT. Never set
it up myself.

Make sure the UPS you choose, internally uses the Standard 12VDC-7AH
jell cell battery as they are easy to find and replace and cost
effective. Often, that is all an older UPS needs.

Google for "Sealed Lead acid Battery 12V 7Ah" with F2 connectors
after looking inside at the battery(s) currently in your UPS.

hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Daniel Frey]

On 01/08/2013 09:32 AM, Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Paul Hartman
> <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
>>>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
>>> there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
>>> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
>>> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
>>> * 1 ADSL router/modem
>>>
>>>   What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  The stuff I'm
>>> concerned about is the 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
>>> short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
>>> the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
>>> execute /usr/sbin/hibernate
>>
>> I personally have a Cyberpower 1350VA (with fancy LED display to show
>> current load, estimated time remaining, etc.). It is supported by NUT
>> in linux so my box can do a clean shutdown when the UPS battery is
>> running low. Running my big PC (with 7 HDDs RAID) it gives me around
>> 30 to 45 minutes of life on battery before the shutdown kicks in. My
>> power outages at my house are generally either <5 seconds, or
>> hours/days with nothing in-between. :)
> 
> I will also add I had an Ultra brand UPS before (actually made by
> Powercom), which was extremely cheap, I'm talking about $79 shipped
> for 1500VA UPS, and it spontaneously stopped working one day, just
> outside of the warranty period. It was not supported by NUT, the linux
> software required binaries instealled to /etc and also to write its
> logs to /etc and generally did not work well anyway. I will avoid
> Powercom/Ultra UPS in the future.
> 
> At work we use APC brand UPS and they generally seem to work very
> well, though they tend to be quite expensive.
> 

(Speaking from my own experience over the last 15 years)

If you have two desktop PCs plus monitor and switches I would try to get
1500VA or more.

I have tried Tripp-Lite, Cyberpower, and APC. So far, the best luck I've
had is with APC.

I started out with APC initially (small unit, 350VA) and paid the
premium price. The second and third time around (not replacing, needing
new UPSs) I tried other brands. First the Tripp-Lite, it was OK but a
year and a half later it just died with no warning. Got a replacement
battery and still no go. So I bought a Cyberpower UPS. This one lasted
almost two years, and when the power went out the first time it worked -
but the second time it went out when the power came back the UPS fried
and it unfortunately took out my PSU, motherboard, and hard drive. For
some reason the monitor survived... and no, I did not have any
high-amperage devices attached (printer is in a different room.)

Anyway, after that experience, I stuck with APC. I currently have four
of them, a little 350VA guy for my modem and switches, and 3 1200VA
models. These are old now, bought in 2004, and other than having to
change one battery in one of the units, they all still work. Nine years!

I also recommend APC based on my own experience. Yes, they're more
expensive (in some cases 50% more) than others, but longevity seems to
be great. Plus you can use apcupsd for monitoring in linux.

We also use APC at work. While a few have had their batteries changed,
most of the units themselves are at least 10 years old.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Steven Lembark]

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 08:01:47 -0500
"Walter Dnes" <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:

>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years,
> so there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal
> usage is
> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
> * 1 ADSL router/modem
> 
>   What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  The stuff I'm
> concerned about is he 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
> short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
> the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
> execute /usr/sbin/hibernate

I've had good luck with Refurbished UPS
<http://www.refurbups.com>. They rebuild
APC units, have decent prices with full
warranty.

Short of a full outage, a line conditioner 
works equall well (APC makes several good
dones, 1250VA being more than enough for 
most PC's). 

After that you can get a "Smart UPS", which
is basically a line conditioner and a battery
in one box. This solves your flicker problems.
A Smart-UPS 750 will probably handle anything
you need for a desktop and L[CE]D screen, for
two of them you can get a 1.5KVA that will give
you plenty of time for shutdown even with two
machines.

For a home unit, your best bet is to size the
thing for a reasonable shutdown period rather
than try to keep everything running through
a potential blackout. Reboots don't take that
long and the cost+overhead of running an oversize
unit adds up. You have a different calculation 
for servers or racks, where uptime is more of 
an issue. The bigger ones also weigh a helluva
lot more, which doesn't sound like anything
until you break a desk or warp some shelves
unnecessarly :-)

-- 
Steven Lembark                                           3646 Flora Pl
Workhorse Computing                                 St Louis, MO 63110
lembark@wrkhors.com                                    +1 888 359 3508

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Randy Barlow]

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Hash: SHA1

I'd actually like to hop on this thread and submit a related question,
that by some small chance might be relevant to the OP as well.

I have a power factor correcting power supply, and I have read a lot
of conflicting information about whether or not I need a sinusoidal
UPS for it. Sinusoidal UPS's cost considerably more than a square wave
UPS, and so I'd love to hear what people know about this on this
mailing list before dropping the cash on one.
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAlDstD4ACgkQw3vjPfF7QfW8WQCgh2DFmy8hP9pWdcrBiaMorOkT
SWEAniBEmjlrmWVlxuGY1YuTvIVhq4jz
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Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Matthew Marlowe]

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I'd recommend sticking with APC....I've explored other UPS vendors/brand in
the past, and most of them work fine especially optiups....but I've also
had some cases of cheaper ups's becoming fire hazards, having short useful
lifetimes, or not producing a good enough sine wave.   When power is subtly
wrong it can also be exceedingly difficult to troubleshoot, and I'd rather
not go through that again.  There is also a larger community to
troubleshoot issues or to get replacement batteries with APC than with
other vendors.

So, given that, it mostly comes down to choosing which APC ups to go with-

BackUPS is OK, they are great value, but the quality seems to vary by year,
replacement batteries may fail early, and you need to verify the sinewave
specs.
SmartUPS SMT-1500 is mostly what I use now as it is more durable, displays
more info, has expansion capabilities, and seems to handle most power
events better.

For Gentoo, you can monitor the UPS's with apcupsd package.  Note that some
models are not fully compatible w/o buying an SNMP mgmt card...but the
critical stuff works fine.

You can go with cyberpower and other mainstream low-cost vendors, of course
- it depends on how much you value what you are connecting to it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Walter Dnes]

  Thanks to you, and others, for all the info.  And thanks for the
apcupsd ebuild.  BTW, what does mailx do in the ebuild?  Send an email
about an outage?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Daniel Frey]

On 01/08/2013 11:24 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Thanks to you, and others, for all the info.  And thanks for the
> apcupsd ebuild.  BTW, what does mailx do in the ebuild?  Send an email
> about an outage?
> 

Yes, it sends email notifications. I currently have ssmtp set up to send
mail to my gmail account - when apcupsd detects a power outage/restore,
it sends me email indicating so.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Dale]

Walter Dnes wrote:
>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
> there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
> * 1 ADSL router/modem
>
>   What brand and VA rating would people recommend.  The stuff I'm
> concerned about is the 2 or 3 times a year I get power flickers, or a
> short outage.  And also, if power is out for more than 5 minutes, and
> the battery is running low, I want the PC to be able to sense that and
> execute /usr/sbin/hibernate
>


I'll add what I have.  I have a CyberPower UPS.  It's a 1350va model. 
It works fine.  The software, doesn't seem to allow me to change
settings tho.  When I have power problems, it is one of two things. 
Long blinks of a couple to several seconds or dead for hours.  I wanted
to change it so that it would auto shutdown when the battery got to
about 50% or so.  I don't see any need in running the thing down all the
way when the power will not be back on in time to prevent a shutdown
anyway.  So, UPS works fine for what I need but software has a few limits. 

I have a Cooler Master case with lots of large fans, Gigabyte mobo,
16Bgs of ram, 4 hard drives, DVD burner and a 22" LG monitor plus a DSL
modem and a Linksys router plugged in.  According to the software, it
runs at about 20% of its rated 1350va. 

This is also the second CyperPower UPS that I have had.  The last one
works but the plugs are a bit loose.  When I got the one above, I did
some work on the old one and use it for my TV now.  I also had to
replace the batteries in the old one after about 6 or 7 years.  I bought
the old one back in 2003 or so.  It is dependable.

I read some of the other posts too, I have always read that APC has
better Linux support.  It just depends on what you can afford and IF you
need all the fancy controls.  ;-)

Hope that helps. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 07:47:13AM -0800, Daniel Frey wrote
> On 01/08/2013 11:24 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> >   Thanks to you, and others, for all the info.  And thanks for the
> > apcupsd ebuild.  BTW, what does mailx do in the ebuild?  Send an email
> > about an outage?
> > 
> 
> Yes, it sends email notifications. I currently have ssmtp set up to send
> mail to my gmail account - when apcupsd detects a power outage/restore,
> it sends me email indicating so.

  Did you tweak the virtual/mailx ebuild to include ssmtp?  apcupsd
pulls in virtual/mailx which has...

RDEPEND="|| (   mail-client/mailx
                                mail-client/nail
                                net-mail/mailutils )"

  I already use ssmtp as my mail client (check the headers).  But it
looks like it'll pull in mailx.  I've confirmed that with...

emerge -pv apcupsd

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Any UPS recommendations?

[Thanasis]

on 01/09/2013 09:15 PM Walter Dnes wrote the following:

> apcupsd pulls in virtual/mailx ...

virtual/mailx is needed as a program to send mail via shell scripts.
ssmtp (like postfix) is used as an MTA to get mail off the system to a
Mailhub.

[gentoo-user] Redux: Any UPS recommendations?

[Walter Dnes]

On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 08:01:47AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote
>   I think my UPS is dying.  Time to get a new one.  It's been years, so
> there may be new tech out there I don't know about.  My normal usage is
> * 1 LCD monitor 24"
> * 1 (sometimes 2) "desktop" PCs connected to the monitor
> * 1 ADSL router/modem

  I got an APC Back-UPS BX1300G-CN from the local Staples.  No worry
whatsoever about overloading this baby.  I'm currently running a
"torture test" with the monitor, the modem, and both PC's running.
They're both doing an update.  I set things up so that both are building
gcc at the same time.  Even so, the load indicator is only lighting up 2
of 5 bars, indicating approximately 40% of max load.  It might've been a
different story years ago back in the days of the Pentium 4 or AMD "space
heaters", plus add-on video cards.

  Being the geek that I am, I did RTFM the docs that came with the UPS.
It has an option to decide how much to allow voltage to vary before
switching over to battery power.  I selected the narrowest range, i.e.
the "sensitive electronics" setting.

  One question about the configuration of apcupsd; what do I have to do
get it to execute "/usr/sbin/hibernate" when hydro is out, and the
battery is running low?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Redux: Any UPS recommendations?

[Daniel Frey]

On 01/10/2013 04:21 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 08:01:47AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote
> 
>   I got an APC Back-UPS BX1300G-CN from the local Staples.  No worry
> whatsoever about overloading this baby.  I'm currently running a
> "torture test" with the monitor, the modem, and both PC's running.
> They're both doing an update.  I set things up so that both are building
> gcc at the same time.  Even so, the load indicator is only lighting up 2
> of 5 bars, indicating approximately 40% of max load.  It might've been a
> different story years ago back in the days of the Pentium 4 or AMD "space
> heaters", plus add-on video cards.
> 
>   Being the geek that I am, I did RTFM the docs that came with the UPS.
> It has an option to decide how much to allow voltage to vary before
> switching over to battery power.  I selected the narrowest range, i.e.
> the "sensitive electronics" setting.
> 
>   One question about the configuration of apcupsd; what do I have to do
> get it to execute "/usr/sbin/hibernate" when hydro is out, and the
> battery is running low?
> 

I've never used hibernate. I would imagine that that apcupsd would have
a hook. I googled quickly and found an ArchWiki article that discusses
it. Apparently you can create a symlink and apcupsd will use it rather
than the usual shutdown process.

Disclaimer: I have not tried it myself.

Dan