From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8D61381F3 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2012 18:53:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 910AE21C004; Mon, 24 Dec 2012 18:53:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EAB121C01B for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2012 18:52:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id es5so3276666wgb.17 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:52:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :organization:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=qxqAF2g5lmgixksFsYd4yyzFlldBM6cKn4SdnmxEgUE=; b=IulB99dfBCI1+9bZVz02DZzphbn/Gk3gFEbh7JJG+3B9JYyED6LbIJgPrtIB7Qv7DG zBLutb3GsDYNmagRU8xn59JHHEZMlkK4cQmBKqJtDj5KNNJCRBWdW0E7QTdoQ5paPW2q QSXBkQxCqb+WjqyKr6tAj1XmKNkWQAnoYZX2okMW0t2j7dqTONY/v/yiJqNebone2jRS vzUXFGGagdlVBG8vdCBbR3r9+d8rsfZYhue2w0rTSBFA7sp40jl1s2E0LdpUdMNB2P2v EacSDGCcmNx4bQuiElmyVxZYdtctUCaakj2RNArTVOHmCEXuU3IHG8Zj8JBf1x7Kdal7 mn2A== X-Received: by 10.180.85.103 with SMTP id g7mr28733445wiz.29.1356375125279; Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from khamul.example.com (196-215-209-117.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.215.209.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hu8sm22280861wib.6.2012.12.24.10.52.01 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:52:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 20:48:17 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? Message-ID: <20121224204817.335033c6@khamul.example.com> In-Reply-To: <50D85167.9060309@gmail.com> References: <50CB1942.3020900@gmail.com> <50CB4A3C.1030109@gmail.com> <50CB5406.7040404@gmail.com> <8738z7hgsa.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <20121216171043.71084070@khamul.example.com> <20121217104621.735bf43a@khamul.example.com> <20121218163332.7956f31a@khamul.example.com> <87txrd6pb3.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <20121223182037.1553813f@khamul.example.com> <87bodk7lb6.fsf@ist.utl.pt> <20121224085528.56f535ec@khamul.example.com> <50D85167.9060309@gmail.com> Organization: Internet Solutions X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.1 (GTK+ 2.24.14; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 048fa65c-1281-447d-a935-172bd6392eed X-Archives-Hash: 0bec9481adfc168856e6174cc522ef15 On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 06:58:15 -0600 Dale wrote: > So, Nuno, everything was fine until they started moving things to a > place where it shouldn't be. No Dale, that is just flat out wrong. There is no such thing as "place where stuff should be". There are only conventions, and like all conventions, rituals, fashions and traditions these are prone to breakage when things move on. Things move on because they become way more complex than the designer of the convention thought they would (or could). The truth is simply this (derived from empirical observation): Long ago we had established conventions about / and /usr; mostly because the few sysadmins around agreed on some things. In those days there was no concept of a packager or maintainer, there was only a sysadmin. This person was a lot like me - he decided and if you didn't like it that was tough. So things stayed as they were for a very long time. Thankfully, it is not like that anymore and the distinction between / and /usr is now so blurry there might as well not be a distinction. Which is good as the distinction wasn't exactly a good thing from day 1 either - it was useful for terminal servers (only by convention) and let the sysadmin keep his treasured uptime (which only proves he isn't doing kernel maintenance...) I'm sorry you bought into the crap about / and /usr that people of my ilk foisted on you, but the time for that is past, and things move on. If there is to be a convention, there can be only one that makes any sense: / and /usr are essentially the same, so put your stuff anywhere you want it to be. ironically this no gives you the ultimate in choice, not the false one you had for years. So if your /usr is say 8G, then enlarge / bu that amount, move /usr over and retain all your mount points as the were. Now for the foreseeable future anything you might want to hotplug at launch time stands a very good chance of working as expected. You will only need an initrd if you have / on striped RAID or LVM or similar, but that is a boot strap problem not a /usr problem (and you do not have such a setup). Right now you need an initrd anyway to boot such setups. The design of separate / and /usr on modern machines IS broken by design. It is fragile and causes problems in the large case. This doesn't mean YOUR system is broken and won't boot, it means it causes unnecessary hassle in the whole ecosystem, and the fix is to change behaviour and layout to something more appropriate to what we have today. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com