[gentoo-user] android and mtp

[gentoo-user] android and mtp

[luis jure]

hello list, 

i would appreciate suggestions and recommendations to manage a device
(samsung galaxy note II) with android ICS.

as you may know (i didn't until today...), ICS doesn't connect the device
as a good old USB mass storage device, but rather using this MTP thing.

i googled a bit and found that i already had libmtp installed. mtp-detect
sees the device alright. any ideas what would be the "best" and easiest way
to mount/umount the device for file transfer, syncing, etc?

i'm using xfce, and it would be ideal if i could find a way that
integrates well with the desktop.


best,


lj

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 3:56 PM, luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:
>
> hello list,
>
> i would appreciate suggestions and recommendations to manage a device
> (samsung galaxy note II) with android ICS.
>
> as you may know (i didn't until today...), ICS doesn't connect the device
> as a good old USB mass storage device, but rather using this MTP thing.
>
> i googled a bit and found that i already had libmtp installed. mtp-detect
> sees the device alright. any ideas what would be the "best" and easiest way
> to mount/umount the device for file transfer, syncing, etc?
>
> i'm using xfce, and it would be ideal if i could find a way that
> integrates well with the desktop.

I think you can use mtpfs and then browse it like any other disk. I
don't have any MTP device to test it myself.

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 16:19:10 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote:

> > as you may know (i didn't until today...), ICS doesn't connect the
> > device as a good old USB mass storage device, but rather using this
> > MTP thing.

No, and there's a good reason for that. In order to mount the device as a
USB storage device on the computer, it has to be unmounted on the phone.
You can't have a single filesystem directly mounted by two operating
systems at once.

> I think you can use mtpfs and then browse it like any other disk. I
> don't have any MTP device to test it myself.

I found that to be rather fragile, jmtpfs works far better for me, with a
Galaxy S3 and a Nexus 7.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 37: Sanitary landfill

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Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[luis jure]

on 2012-12-21 at 23:20 Neil Bothwick wrote:

> No, and there's a good reason for that.

well, i'm glad to know that there's a good reason to use MTP, because what
i've read so far about it made me wonder...

from the link mark sent earlier:

<quote>
libmtp (and I assume the MTP protocol itself) doesn’t support seeking
within a file or partial file reads or writes. You have to fetch or send
the entire file. To simluate normal random access files, when a file is
opened the entire file contents are copied from the device to a temporary
file. Reads and writes then operate on the temporary file. When the file
is closed (or if a flush or fsync occurs) then if a write has occurred
since the file was last opened the entire contents of the temporary file
are sent back to the device. This means repeatedly opening a file, making
a small change, and closing it again will be very slow.

Renaming or moving a file is implemented by copying the file from the
device, writing it back to the device under the new name, and then
deleting the original file. This makes renames, especially for large
files, slow. This has special significance when using rsync to copy files
to the device. Rsync copies to a temporary file, and then when the copy is
complete it renames the temporary file to the real filename. So when
rsyncing to a jmtpfs filessystem, for each file, the data gets copied to
the device, read back, and then copied to the device again. There is a
true rename (but not move) supported by libmtp, but this appears to
confuse some Android apps, so I don’t use it. Image files, for example,
will disappear from the Gallery if they’re renamed.
</quote>

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:01:37 -0200
luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:

> 
> on 2012-12-21 at 23:20 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> 
> > No, and there's a good reason for that.
> 
> well, i'm glad to know that there's a good reason to use MTP, because
> what i've read so far about it made me wonder...

It all becomes understandable when you figure out what MTP actually is.
It's Media Transfer Protocol, it's not eg Media Transfer Filesystem.
Wiki tells you some more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol

So it's a protocol for getting an entire file (originally usually an
mp3) from storage to a device that would play it. It makes sense to copy
the entire file to an mp3 player then play it, seeks would not involve
network (or bus) traffic.

Consider that http also doesn't let you usually transfer bits of
files. That protocol is also happier giving you all or nothing (yes,
you can do partial downloads, but that's not really a seek action,
it's a once-off action to say where the start of the copy happens from.




> 
> from the link mark sent earlier:
> 
> <quote>
> libmtp (and I assume the MTP protocol itself) doesn’t support seeking
> within a file or partial file reads or writes. You have to fetch or
> send the entire file. To simluate normal random access files, when a
> file is opened the entire file contents are copied from the device to
> a temporary file. Reads and writes then operate on the temporary
> file. When the file is closed (or if a flush or fsync occurs) then if
> a write has occurred since the file was last opened the entire
> contents of the temporary file are sent back to the device. This
> means repeatedly opening a file, making a small change, and closing
> it again will be very slow.
> 
> Renaming or moving a file is implemented by copying the file from the
> device, writing it back to the device under the new name, and then
> deleting the original file. This makes renames, especially for large
> files, slow. This has special significance when using rsync to copy
> files to the device. Rsync copies to a temporary file, and then when
> the copy is complete it renames the temporary file to the real
> filename. So when rsyncing to a jmtpfs filessystem, for each file,
> the data gets copied to the device, read back, and then copied to the
> device again. There is a true rename (but not move) supported by
> libmtp, but this appears to confuse some Android apps, so I don’t use
> it. Image files, for example, will disappear from the Gallery if
> they’re renamed. </quote>
> 



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[luis jure]

on 2012-12-22 at 14:15 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> It all becomes understandable when you figure out what MTP actually is.

yes, of course, thanks for the pointers. but i learned of the existence of
this MTP thing only yesterday, and frankly, at first i couldn't see what
was the advantage over plain ol' UMS for these kind of devices (not 100%
convinced yet...).

BTW, i found an application that makes the external sd card (not the
phone card) available as USB mass storage device:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009

i tried it, but it only runs on rooted phones, apparently. i've had mine
only two days and i haven't rooted it yet.


best,


lj

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:49:42 -0200
luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:

> on 2012-12-22 at 14:15 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > It all becomes understandable when you figure out what MTP actually
> > is.
> 
> yes, of course, thanks for the pointers. but i learned of the
> existence of this MTP thing only yesterday, and frankly, at first i
> couldn't see what was the advantage over plain ol' UMS for these kind
> of devices (not 100% convinced yet...).

Don't overthink it. Think like this:

With UMS:

User umounts sdcard. User writes lots of mp3's. User starts Google Maps
(or any app moved to scdard). User gets error. User whinges at Samsung
and Google. These bug tickets never stop coming.

With only MTP:

User plugs PC to phone. User does whatever user wants. User does not
whinge at Samsung and Google.


Now, imagine you are the guy at Samsung deciding what features the S2
will support. Which option you gonna pick?


> 
> BTW, i found an application that makes the external sd card (not the
> phone card) available as USB mass storage device:
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009
> 
> i tried it, but it only runs on rooted phones, apparently. i've had
> mine only two days and i haven't rooted it yet.
> 
> 
> best,
> 
> 
> lj
> 



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[luis jure]

on 2012-12-22 at 17:13 Alan McKinnon wrote:

>Now, imagine you are the guy at Samsung deciding what features the S2
>will support. Which option you gonna pick?

yeah, you're right, i guess. but for once i'd like the guys at the
corporations to think like me, and not to be forced to think like them...

[gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-12-23, luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:
> on 2012-12-22 at 17:13 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>>Now, imagine you are the guy at Samsung deciding what features the S2
>>will support. Which option you gonna pick?
>
> yeah, you're right, i guess. but for once i'd like the guys at the
> corporations to think like me, and not to be forced to think like
> them...

I'm glad they chose MTP: I want my phone to continue to work while I'm
transferring files.  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, the
phone would have to unmount it (which means it's nothing but a flash
drive).  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, it also means
they'd be forced to use VFAT for the Linux root filesystem, and that
sucks bad.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Nilesh Govindrajan]

On Monday 24 December 2012 09:24:16 AM IST, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-12-23, luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:
>> on 2012-12-22 at 17:13 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>
>>> Now, imagine you are the guy at Samsung deciding what features the S2
>>> will support. Which option you gonna pick?
>>
>> yeah, you're right, i guess. but for once i'd like the guys at the
>> corporations to think like me, and not to be forced to think like
>> them...
>
> I'm glad they chose MTP: I want my phone to continue to work while I'm
> transferring files.  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, the
> phone would have to unmount it (which means it's nothing but a flash
> drive).  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, it also means
> they'd be forced to use VFAT for the Linux root filesystem, and that
> sucks bad.
>

They still use VFAT for the so called sdcard (my Xperia S has internal 
storage, not extensible).

--
Nilesh Govindarajan
http://nileshgr.com

[gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-12-24, Nilesh Govindrajan <me@nileshgr.com> wrote:
> On Monday 24 December 2012 09:24:16 AM IST, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2012-12-23, luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:
>>> on 2012-12-22 at 17:13 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now, imagine you are the guy at Samsung deciding what features the S2
>>>> will support. Which option you gonna pick?
>>>
>>> yeah, you're right, i guess. but for once i'd like the guys at the
>>> corporations to think like me, and not to be forced to think like
>>> them...
>>
>> I'm glad they chose MTP: I want my phone to continue to work while I'm
>> transferring files.  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, the
>> phone would have to unmount it (which means it's nothing but a flash
>> drive).  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, it also means
>> they'd be forced to use VFAT for the Linux root filesystem, and that
>> sucks bad.
>>
>
> They still use VFAT for the so called sdcard (my Xperia S has internal 
> storage, not extensible).

That's understandable.  But for phones with only a single flash device
(like my Nexus Galaxy), using MTP is the only sensical thing to do.
If you want to access only the SD card, then VFAT and USB mass storage
works (well, it works as well as VFAT allows).

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Michael Mol]

On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2012-12-24, Nilesh Govindrajan <me@nileshgr.com> wrote:
>> On Monday 24 December 2012 09:24:16 AM IST, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> I'm glad they chose MTP: I want my phone to continue to work while I'm
>>> transferring files.  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, the
>>> phone would have to unmount it (which means it's nothing but a flash
>>> drive).  In order to mount the filesystem via USB, it also means
>>> they'd be forced to use VFAT for the Linux root filesystem, and that
>>> sucks bad.
>>>
>>
>> They still use VFAT for the so called sdcard (my Xperia S has internal
>> storage, not extensible).
>
> That's understandable.  But for phones with only a single flash device
> (like my Nexus Galaxy), using MTP is the only sensical thing to do.
> If you want to access only the SD card, then VFAT and USB mass storage
> works (well, it works as well as VFAT allows).

To a very limited extent. If you have running programs on the phone,
they may very well depend on being able to write to the SD card, and
may crash if the SD card is removed. In Android, there is _no_
internal storage space for application data; only application code. If
an application is supposed to retain data, it needs to be able to put
it on the SD card.

Similarly, it's very common to move user-installed applications from
internal memory to the phone (for many apps, this doesn't require
rooting the phone). This is problematic if the filesystem is yanked
out from under them while they're running.

VFAT is not designed for concurrent access, and should not be used if
MTP can be made to work. MTP is there specifically to allow the
filesystem to be available to multiple consumers...that of the device
and that of the machine the device is plugged into.

--
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:49:42 -0200, luis jure wrote:

> BTW, i found an application that makes the external sd card (not the
> phone card) available as USB mass storage device:
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009
> 
> i tried it, but it only runs on rooted phones, apparently. i've had mine
> only two days and i haven't rooted it yet.

I tried it and soon uninstalled it. Not only does it only allow access to
the SD card (the internal storage can't be unmounted) but even that was
unreliable. Not that I've found any of the MTP implementations I've tried
to be 100% reliable.

I often use SFTP, it may be a little slower but I gain back the time I'd
spend looking for the USB cable ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
 (Albert Einstein)

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Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[luis jure]

on 2012-12-22 at 22:57 Neil Bothwick wrote:

> I tried it and soon uninstalled it. Not only does it only allow access to
> the SD card (the internal storage can't be unmounted) but even that was
> unreliable. 

well, that's good to know. by now i already have my phone rooted :-) but
things seem to be working with jmtpfs, so i might just leave it at that.

[gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-12-21, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 16:19:10 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote:
>
>> I think you can use mtpfs and then browse it like any other disk.


> I found that to be rather fragile, jmtpfs works far better for me, with a
> Galaxy S3 and a Nexus 7.

I couldn't get mtpfs to work either, and I've seen a lot of reports
that it's flakey.

I second the recommendation for jmtpfs (I'm using version 0.4).  I've
had zero problems with my Nexus Galaxy and jmtpfs.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Nilesh Govindrajan]

On Sunday 23 December 2012 05:02:17 AM IST, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-12-21, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 16:19:10 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote:
>>
>>> I think you can use mtpfs and then browse it like any other disk.
>
>
>> I found that to be rather fragile, jmtpfs works far better for me, with a
>> Galaxy S3 and a Nexus 7.
>
> I couldn't get mtpfs to work either, and I've seen a lot of reports
> that it's flakey.
>
> I second the recommendation for jmtpfs (I'm using version 0.4).  I've
> had zero problems with my Nexus Galaxy and jmtpfs.
>

MTP never worked for me.
I use the FTP server with ES File Explorer over USB Tethering.
The process is a bit clumsy, but works at USB transfer speeds.

Disable wifi, connect usb and enable usb tethering. Then start ES FTP 
server and connect to it using the address shown.
:D :D

--
Nilesh Govindarajan
http://nileshgr.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Daniel Frey]

On 12/22/2012 03:32 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-12-21, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 16:19:10 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote:
>>
>>> I think you can use mtpfs and then browse it like any other disk.
> 
> 
>> I found that to be rather fragile, jmtpfs works far better for me, with a
>> Galaxy S3 and a Nexus 7.
> 
> I couldn't get mtpfs to work either, and I've seen a lot of reports
> that it's flakey.
> 
> I second the recommendation for jmtpfs (I'm using version 0.4).  I've
> had zero problems with my Nexus Galaxy and jmtpfs.
> 

I really struggled with my Nexus 7 and mtpfs. I did finally get it to
work, posted under the Nexus 7 thread on the forums:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7135656.html#7135656

I was getting a reliable connection and 8-9MB/sec transfer rate to my
device. I had to try all sorts of things to try to get the thing to
work. Miraculously, I got it to work after trying many things.

I specifically had:

* Searching for mtpfs ...
[IP-] [  ] sys-fs/mtpfs-1.0:0


installed.

I put an entry in /etc/fstab and manually mount it when needed:
mtpfs                   /mnt/nexus7     fuse
user,noauto,allow_other 0 0

I remember trying for weeks to get this to work, I don't know if I just
lucked out.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[luis jure]

on 2012-12-22 at 19:55 Daniel Frey wrote:

> I really struggled with my Nexus 7 and mtpfs. I did finally get it to
> work, 

well, it seems i have been very lucky indeed. i just emerged jmtpfs as per
mark's suggestion, and it just worked. i just created a /media/galaxy
directory, and an entry in fstab (like yours, but with jmtpfs instead of
mtpfs) and that was it. now i can simply mount /media/galaxy.

and the best, for those of you using xfce and thunar, in the "multimedia"
tab of preferences -> advanced -> volume manager, i clicked the "portable
music players" check box, and added the command "mount /media/galaxy/".
now when i connect my phablet it is automatically mounted, and i can
umount/eject it from thunar. couldn't be easier, a perfect solution for my
needs!


best,


lj

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: android and mtp

[Daniel Frey]

On 12/23/2012 03:22 PM, luis jure wrote:
> well, it seems i have been very lucky indeed. i just emerged jmtpfs as per
> mark's suggestion, and it just worked. i just created a /media/galaxy
> directory, and an entry in fstab (like yours, but with jmtpfs instead of
> mtpfs) and that was it. now i can simply mount /media/galaxy.
> 
> and the best, for those of you using xfce and thunar, in the "multimedia"
> tab of preferences -> advanced -> volume manager, i clicked the "portable
> music players" check box, and added the command "mount /media/galaxy/".
> now when i connect my phablet it is automatically mounted, and i can
> umount/eject it from thunar. couldn't be easier, a perfect solution for my
> needs!
> 
> 
> best,
> 
> 
> lj
> 

I just removed mtpfs and installed jmtpfs from the poly-c overlay, in
order to get access to my external SD card in my new Galaxy S3. It was
far easier to get to work than mtpfs - and so far jmtpfs hasn't
segfaulted yet. Apparently mtpfs only sees the internal SD and not the
external one.

Trying to get some music on there so I can bring my bluetooth speaker to
work so I have something to listen to while I work.

It's just me so I don't care too much about automounting, I just put an
entry in /etc/fstab and mount it manually when I need to update something.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:56 PM, luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:
>
> hello list,
>
> i would appreciate suggestions and recommendations to manage a device
> (samsung galaxy note II) with android ICS.
>
> as you may know (i didn't until today...), ICS doesn't connect the device
> as a good old USB mass storage device, but rather using this MTP thing.
>
> i googled a bit and found that i already had libmtp installed. mtp-detect
> sees the device alright. any ideas what would be the "best" and easiest way
> to mount/umount the device for file transfer, syncing, etc?
>
> i'm using xfce, and it would be ideal if i could find a way that
> integrates well with the desktop.
>
>
> best,
>
>
> lj
>

Same issue here with the new Kindle Fire HD. I managed to mount it
successfully using jmtpfs from the poly-c overlay.

This link was helpful to me

http://research.jacquette.com/jmtpfs-exchanging-files-between-android-devices-and-linux/

HTH,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[luis jure]

on 2012-12-21 at 14:26 Mark Knecht wrote:


> I managed to mount it successfully using jmtpfs from the poly-c overlay.

thank you mark, i got it working now. i created an entry in fstab, and i
can mount/umount it with simple mount and umount commands (i still haven't
managed to make it work using the "devices" widget in the xfce panel).


best,


lj

Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 3:09 AM, luis jure <ljc@internet.com.uy> wrote:
> on 2012-12-21 at 14:26 Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
>> I managed to mount it successfully using jmtpfs from the poly-c overlay.
>
> thank you mark, i got it working now. i created an entry in fstab, and i
> can mount/umount it with simple mount and umount commands (i still haven't
> managed to make it work using the "devices" widget in the xfce panel).
>
>
> best,
>
>
> lj
>

Happy to have helped even a little.

Cheers,
Mark