[gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Howdy,

It appears that grub2 is coming soon.  Thread on -dev said a couple
months or so till it hits the tree, keyworded and/or masked I'm sure.  I
guess it is about time to jump off the cliff and give this a try.  I
installed Kubuntu on a system for my brother and it uses grub2.  I have
had to edit the config and then run the update script.  I have sort of
installed and made a config change to grub2, even tho it was only once. 
Basically, I sort of seen the thing at least.  o_O

My first question is, how hard is this to change from old grub to
grub2?  I only run Gentoo here, no windoze at all and no other distro
either.  I figure that may make it easier.  I must confess tho, I'm a
hoarder of kernels.  LOL   I generally have several versions of them on
here.  Is there a way for it to only see say the last 3 versions or so? 
I only have three right now but I cleaned out all the non-init kernels a
while back.  Given time, I may have a dozen or so.  I would rather not
have that many lines on the grub screen when booting. 

Also, will it know what init thingy image to connect the kernels too?  I
name my kernels with the version and name the init thingy with a similar
name.  Looks someting like this:

root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/bzImage-3.*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4740064 May 16 20:25 /boot/bzImage-3.3.5-2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758496 May 23 13:09 /boot/bzImage-3.4.0-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758816 Jun 14 09:00 /boot/bzImage-3.4.2.r1-1
root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/initramfs-3.*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560934 May 12 05:03 /boot/initramfs-3.3.5-1.img
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560423 May 23 13:10 /boot/initramfs-3.4.0.img
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3561170 Jun 14 09:05 /boot/initramfs-3.4.2.img
root@fireball / #

There are times when I may have more than one kernel but only one init
thingy tho.  So far, one init thingy will work with any kernel of that
version.  I have not tried mixing tho. 

Also, how much disk space does grub take up on /boot?  Mine is on a
separate partition and I hope it is large enough. 

Thoughts.  Info. 

Thanks in advance.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy,

Hi Dale.

> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.  Thread on -dev said a couple
> months or so till it hits the tree, keyworded and/or masked I'm sure.  I
> guess it is about time to jump off the cliff and give this a try.  I
> installed Kubuntu on a system for my brother and it uses grub2.  I have
> had to edit the config and then run the update script.  I have sort of
> installed and made a config change to grub2, even tho it was only once.
> Basically, I sort of seen the thing at least.  o_O
>
> My first question is, how hard is this to change from old grub to
> grub2?

It's a completely new beast. Almost none of the old grub-legacy
related knowledge works for GRUB2.

>  I only run Gentoo here, no windoze at all and no other distro
> either.  I figure that may make it easier.  I must confess tho, I'm a
> hoarder of kernels.  LOL   I generally have several versions of them on
> here.  Is there a way for it to only see say the last 3 versions or so?
> I only have three right now but I cleaned out all the non-init kernels a
> while back.  Given time, I may have a dozen or so.  I would rather not
> have that many lines on the grub screen when booting.

You can edit the config file (you first need to give it the
appropriate permissions), and remove from it the kernels you don't
want. Also, you can move the kernels/initramfs' from /boot into a temp
directory when running the grub2-mkconfig script.

> Also, will it know what init thingy image to connect the kernels too?  I
> name my kernels with the version and name the init thingy with a similar
> name.  Looks someting like this:
>
> root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/bzImage-3.*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4740064 May 16 20:25 /boot/bzImage-3.3.5-2
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758496 May 23 13:09 /boot/bzImage-3.4.0-1
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758816 Jun 14 09:00 /boot/bzImage-3.4.2.r1-1
> root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/initramfs-3.*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560934 May 12 05:03 /boot/initramfs-3.3.5-1.img
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560423 May 23 13:10 /boot/initramfs-3.4.0.img
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3561170 Jun 14 09:05 /boot/initramfs-3.4.2.img
> root@fireball / #

The grub2-mkconfig script should recognize the correct initramfs for
each kernel.

> There are times when I may have more than one kernel but only one init
> thingy tho.  So far, one init thingy will work with any kernel of that
> version.  I have not tried mixing tho.
>
> Also, how much disk space does grub take up on /boot?  Mine is on a
> separate partition and I hope it is large enough.

Mine uses around 8MB:

# du -sh /boot/grub2/
7.9M	/boot/grub2/

> Thoughts.  Info.

I upgraded to GRUB 2 because of ext4, since grub-legacy upstream
doesn't handle ext4 (and, apparently, never will). However, the Gentoo
ebuild applies the patch from

http://code.google.com/p/grub4ext4/

and it's my impression it will continue to apply said patch in the
future, so grub-legacy on Gentoo supports ext4. Given that, I really
don't see an advantage to use GRUB2, except that it will be the one
being maintained in the future, and when UEFI hardware becomes the
standard (if ever), you will probably need it..

Besides ext4 upstream support, GRUB2 allows to use higher screen
resolutions for the graphical menu. That's about it's only advantage
over grub-legacy, and it's a very shallow one. The new configuration
format and the script to generate it are not flexible, and its
documentation is sorely lacking. I really think you should stick with
grub-legacy while Gentoo supports it.

I keep using GRUB2 in my desktop and laptop, buy I didn't migrated my
servers nor my media center to it, nor plan to do it. I see no reason
for it.

And being honest, I hope that something else replaces GRUB2; I like
the notion of a /firstboot minimal Linux as boot loader, or something
similar. If the boot loader has to do OS-related work (graphics/input
drivers and stuff like that), I think using Linux directly is better
than re-implementing something twice (and probably in the wrong
manner) as GRUB2 is doing.

So, in short: I don't recommend switching to GRUB2. And I'm using it.

Either wait for its documentation and tools to mature (i.e., when they
finally hit the 2.0 version), or wait for something else to handle the
future of Linux boot loader. Meanwhile, if you don't use UEFI, you
really don't need GRUB2. So stick to grub-legacy.

My 0.02 ${CURRENCY}.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> And being honest, I hope that something else replaces GRUB2; I like
> the notion of a /firstboot minimal Linux as boot loader, or something
> similar. If the boot loader has to do OS-related work (graphics/input
> drivers and stuff like that), I think using Linux directly is better
> than re-implementing something twice (and probably in the wrong
> manner) as GRUB2 is doing.

Interestingly, Ubuntu, who has been a big supporter of GRUB2, is
moving away from it because of license incompatibility with UEFI
secure boot. They are going to use efilinux instead and are planning
to extended it to have a simple boot menu interface.

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Pandu Poluan]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 928 bytes --]

On Jun 25, 2012 10:55 PM, "Paul Hartman" <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > And being honest, I hope that something else replaces GRUB2; I like
> > the notion of a /firstboot minimal Linux as boot loader, or something
> > similar. If the boot loader has to do OS-related work (graphics/input
> > drivers and stuff like that), I think using Linux directly is better
> > than re-implementing something twice (and probably in the wrong
> > manner) as GRUB2 is doing.
>
> Interestingly, Ubuntu, who has been a big supporter of GRUB2, is
> moving away from it because of license incompatibility with UEFI
> secure boot. They are going to use efilinux instead and are planning
> to extended it to have a simple boot menu interface.
>

Interesting...

I wonder if I can use efilinux for Gentoo, too...

Rgds,

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1212 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Keith Dart]

Re 4FE7F195.4090708@gmail.com4FE7F195.4090708@gmail.com, Canek Peláez
Valdés said:
> Either wait for its documentation and tools to mature (i.e., when they
> finally hit the 2.0 version), or wait for something else to handle the
> future of Linux boot loader. Meanwhile, if you don't use UEFI, you
> really don't need GRUB2. So stick to grub-legacy.


Don't overlook syslinux/extlinux. I use those and am quite happy with
it.

Also, on UEFI systems and recent linux kernels you can just use the EFI
bios and a kernel compiled to act as an EFI application. This
eliminates the need for a middle layer boot loader altogether.


-- Keith


-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith@dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3486 bytes --]

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 00:05:25 -0500, Dale wrote:

> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.  Thread on -dev said a couple
> months or so till it hits the tree, keyworded and/or masked I'm sure.  I
> guess it is about time to jump off the cliff and give this a try.

If GRUB legacy is working for you, I see no need to change. I put GRUB 2
on new installs but haven't seen any reason to switch over existing
systems.

On the other hand, if you want to learn more about it, go for it!
 I
> My first question is, how hard is this to change from old grub to
> grub2?

The same as installing GRUB 2 from scratch. I would waste time trying to
have both installed (I'm not sure if that's even supported any more)
as it's easy enough to reinstall legacy from a live CD if you have to, but
keep your menu.lst.

> I must confess tho, I'm a
> hoarder of kernels.  LOL   I generally have several versions of them on
> here.  Is there a way for it to only see say the last 3 versions or so? 
> I only have three right now but I cleaned out all the non-init kernels a
> while back.  Given time, I may have a dozen or so.  I would rather not
> have that many lines on the grub screen when booting. 

You could edit the script that searches for an adds Linux kernels, or
disable it. I use the custom script to add my own entries at the top of
the menu and let the standard 10_linux script add all detected kernel
below. It lists them most recent first, so any excess of kernels falls
off the bottom of the screen :)

> Also, will it know what init thingy image to connect the kernels too?  I
> name my kernels with the version and name the init thingy with a similar
> name.  Looks someting like this:
> 
> root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/bzImage-3.*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4740064 May 16 20:25 /boot/bzImage-3.3.5-2
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758496 May 23 13:09 /boot/bzImage-3.4.0-1
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758816 Jun 14 09:00 /boot/bzImage-3.4.2.r1-1
> root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/initramfs-3.*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560934 May 12 05:03 /boot/initramfs-3.3.5-1.img
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560423 May 23 13:10 /boot/initramfs-3.4.0.img
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3561170 Jun 14 09:05 /boot/initramfs-3.4.2.img

That should work, although I do not use a separate initramfs file so I
haven't tried it.

> There are times when I may have more than one kernel but only one init
> thingy tho.  So far, one init thingy will work with any kernel of that
> version.  I have not tried mixing tho. 

Use symlinks, or a custom menu.

> Also, how much disk space does grub take up on /boot?  Mine is on a
> separate partition and I hope it is large enough. 

% df /boot
Filesystem     Type  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/md0       ext2  482M  406M   51M  89% /boot

However, 380MB of that is a System Rescue CD ISO, one of the nice things
about GRUB 2 is that you can boot straight fro the ISO, no need to go
hunting for a CD when you need a live boot (unless the reaso you need a
live boot is that you screwed up GRUB :)

% du /boot/grub2
1.5M    /boot/grub2

A GRUB legacy box here gives

% du /boot/grub 
990K    /boot/grub

so not much difference.

> Miss the compile output?  Hint:
> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"

This is redundant now, portage has gone back to the old method of
spamming your screen with compiler output when using --jobs 1.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Home is where you hang your @.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[walt]

On 06/24/2012 10:05 PM, Dale wrote:
> I only run Gentoo here, no windoze at all and no other distro
> either.

I agree with Canek.  The only reason I switched to grub2 is that
I have an outboard docking station that I don't always power on.

That causes the BIOS to change the order of the drives when I
reboot with the docking station powered up, and then the kernel
can't find the boot drive.  Very silly problem, really, and
maybe this particular BIOS is dumber than most, dunno.

But grub2 can search for the boot drive based on the disk label
or UUID, so that particular problem is gone now.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Maxim Wexler]

I mostly gentoo, but ubuntu has this marvellous tool 'boot-repair'
based on grub2 in the yannbuntu repo. With one click it finds all the
bootable partitions on your box, writes and installs the grub.cfg.
Next time you boot viola! there's all your OSes ready to be started.

On 6/25/12, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/24/2012 10:05 PM, Dale wrote:
>> I only run Gentoo here, no windoze at all and no other distro
>> either.
>
> I agree with Canek.  The only reason I switched to grub2 is that
> I have an outboard docking station that I don't always power on.
>
> That causes the BIOS to change the order of the drives when I
> reboot with the docking station powered up, and then the kernel
> can't find the boot drive.  Very silly problem, really, and
> maybe this particular BIOS is dumber than most, dunno.
>
> But grub2 can search for the boot drive based on the disk label
> or UUID, so that particular problem is gone now.
>
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Maxim Wexler <maxim.wexler@gmail.com> wrote:
> I mostly gentoo, but ubuntu has this marvellous tool 'boot-repair'
> based on grub2 in the yannbuntu repo. With one click it finds all the
> bootable partitions on your box, writes and installs the grub.cfg.
> Next time you boot viola! there's all your OSes ready to be started.

It should be a front-end for grub2-mkconfig, which in Gentoo uses os-prober:

http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/os-prober

grub2-mkconfig does exactly the same, just from the command line.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Maxim Wexler <maxim.wexler@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I mostly gentoo, but ubuntu has this marvellous tool 'boot-repair'
>> based on grub2 in the yannbuntu repo. With one click it finds all the
>> bootable partitions on your box, writes and installs the grub.cfg.
>> Next time you boot viola! there's all your OSes ready to be started.
> It should be a front-end for grub2-mkconfig, which in Gentoo uses os-prober:
>
> http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/os-prober
>
> grub2-mkconfig does exactly the same, just from the command line.
>
> Regards.


Grub2 has a GUI?  I got to go see this.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 891 bytes --]

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:10:44 -0500, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

> > I mostly gentoo, but ubuntu has this marvellous tool 'boot-repair'
> > based on grub2 in the yannbuntu repo. With one click it finds all the
> > bootable partitions on your box, writes and installs the grub.cfg.
> > Next time you boot viola! there's all your OSes ready to be started.  
> 
> It should be a front-end for grub2-mkconfig, which in Gentoo uses
> os-prober:

As does Ubuntu. But os-prober is used to find non-Linux installations.
There are other scripts to detect Linux and Xen installs. All of these
are configurable, which is one of the strengths of GRUB2, it is not a
Linux bootloader, it is more universal and adapts itself well to the wide
variety of systems it may be used on. This makes it a much better choice
for distros.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

In the begining, there was nothing.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-06-25 1:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.

Has the Handbook/Install docs been updated to provide for installing 
Grub2 with a fresh install?

I'm about to do one, and would like to not have to switch this out later...

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@libertytrek.org> wrote:
> On 2012-06-25 1:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
>
>
> Has the Handbook/Install docs been updated to provide for installing Grub2
> with a fresh install?
>
> I'm about to do one, and would like to not have to switch this out later...

No, handbook only discusses grub (not grub2) and lilo.

Which is sad; I'd love to use stuff like grub2 and {ext,sys}linux.
It'd be sweet to make things more easily convertible to netboot or
cdrom-boot scenarios.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Mike Gilbert]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@libertytrek.org> wrote:
>> On 2012-06-25 1:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
>>
>>
>> Has the Handbook/Install docs been updated to provide for installing Grub2
>> with a fresh install?
>>
>> I'm about to do one, and would like to not have to switch this out later...
>
> No, handbook only discusses grub (not grub2) and lilo.
>
> Which is sad; I'd love to use stuff like grub2 and {ext,sys}linux.
> It'd be sweet to make things more easily convertible to netboot or
> cdrom-boot scenarios.

We will add some instructions to the handbook when grub:2 is
stabilized. The docs team doesn't want to do it before then.

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 06/29/12 10:57, Mike Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> No, handbook only discusses grub (not grub2) and lilo.
>>
>> Which is sad; I'd love to use stuff like grub2 and {ext,sys}linux.
>> It'd be sweet to make things more easily convertible to netboot or
>> cdrom-boot scenarios.
> 
> We will add some instructions to the handbook when grub:2 is
> stabilized. The docs team doesn't want to do it before then.
> 

This makes sense, because people only do stable installs.

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
>
>   <<< SNIP >>>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>


Well, I got lots of info now.  May just wait a bit but I do like the
idea of being able to boot a CD image from grub2 tho.  Then again, I
don't have enough room on /boot right now anyway. 

Thanks to all for the info.  Maybe others learned something too.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.

grub 2.00 has been released!

https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
> grub 2.00 has been released!
>
> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
>
>


I wasn't expecting it to be that soon.  I guess it will hit the tree
pretty soon then.  Well, we all need to think about the goods and bads
of upgrading or staying with the old.  I'm thinking about using the new
one pretty soon.  Heck, they ticked me off pretty bad with the /usr and
init thingy so I may as well jump off the cliff I was pushed up to.  :/ 

1/4 of the way down, all is good so far.  1/2 way down and all is good
so far.  3/4 way down and all is good so far.  I'm worried about that
sudden stop now.  O_O 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[walt]

On 06/28/2012 03:41 PM, Dale wrote:
> Paul Hartman wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
>> grub 2.00 has been released!
>>
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/

> 
> I wasn't expecting it to be that soon.  I guess it will hit the tree
> pretty soon then.  Well, we all need to think about the goods and bads
> of upgrading or staying with the old.  I'm thinking about using the new
> one pretty soon.  Heck, they ticked me off pretty bad with the /usr and
> init thingy so I may as well jump off the cliff I was pushed up to.  :/ 
> 
> 1/4 of the way down, all is good so far.  1/2 way down and all is good
> so far.  3/4 way down and all is good so far.  I'm worried about that
> sudden stop now.  O_O 

Well said :)  

I've heard a rumor that Windows doesn't like GUID partition tables, so
I haven't yet installed grub2 on my one machine that still multiboots
between operating systems.  (That's my one remaining machine with a
legal install of Windows.)  I confess I'm not interested enough to
confirm the rumor, so I continue to wait because there is no incentive
for me to make the change.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Alecks Gates]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 7:12 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 06/28/2012 03:41 PM, Dale wrote:
> > Paul Hartman wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
> >> grub 2.00 has been released!
> >>
> >> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
>
> >
> > I wasn't expecting it to be that soon.  I guess it will hit the tree
> > pretty soon then.  Well, we all need to think about the goods and bads
> > of upgrading or staying with the old.  I'm thinking about using the new
> > one pretty soon.  Heck, they ticked me off pretty bad with the /usr and
> > init thingy so I may as well jump off the cliff I was pushed up to.  :/
> >
> > 1/4 of the way down, all is good so far.  1/2 way down and all is good
> > so far.  3/4 way down and all is good so far.  I'm worried about that
> > sudden stop now.  O_O
>
> Well said :)
>
> I've heard a rumor that Windows doesn't like GUID partition tables, so
> I haven't yet installed grub2 on my one machine that still multiboots
> between operating systems.  (That's my one remaining machine with a
> legal install of Windows.)  I confess I'm not interested enough to
> confirm the rumor, so I continue to wait because there is no incentive
> for me to make the change.
>
>
I've never had a problem with Grub 2 + Windows (XP, Vista, 7, still
haven't had the will to sacrifice myself for 8).  Although sometimes
it seems, with all the complaining some linux users like to do about
new software, I must be a wee bit lucky.  Been using Grub 2 alpha/beta
for years with much success!  I've so far enjoyed the configuration
more than legacy Grub.

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[walt]

On 06/28/2012 05:19 PM, Alecks Gates wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 7:12 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 06/28/2012 03:41 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> Paul Hartman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
>>>> grub 2.00 has been released!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
>>
>>>
>>> I wasn't expecting it to be that soon.  I guess it will hit the tree
>>> pretty soon then.  Well, we all need to think about the goods and bads
>>> of upgrading or staying with the old.  I'm thinking about using the new
>>> one pretty soon.  Heck, they ticked me off pretty bad with the /usr and
>>> init thingy so I may as well jump off the cliff I was pushed up to.  :/
>>>
>>> 1/4 of the way down, all is good so far.  1/2 way down and all is good
>>> so far.  3/4 way down and all is good so far.  I'm worried about that
>>> sudden stop now.  O_O
>>
>> Well said :)
>>
>> I've heard a rumor that Windows doesn't like GUID partition tables, so
>> I haven't yet installed grub2 on my one machine that still multiboots
>> between operating systems.  (That's my one remaining machine with a
>> legal install of Windows.)  I confess I'm not interested enough to
>> confirm the rumor, so I continue to wait because there is no incentive
>> for me to make the change.
>>
>>
> I've never had a problem with Grub 2 + Windows (XP, Vista, 7, still
> haven't had the will to sacrifice myself for 8).  Although sometimes
> it seems, with all the complaining some linux users like to do about
> new software, I must be a wee bit lucky.  Been using Grub 2 alpha/beta
> for years with much success!  I've so far enjoyed the configuration
> more than legacy Grub.

Just to confirm, my reservations are not about Windows, but about GUID
partitions.  Are you using GUID partition tables?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Alecks Gates]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 7:36 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/28/2012 05:19 PM, Alecks Gates wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 7:12 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/28/2012 03:41 PM, Dale wrote:
>>>> Paul Hartman wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
>>>>> grub 2.00 has been released!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't expecting it to be that soon.  I guess it will hit the tree
>>>> pretty soon then.  Well, we all need to think about the goods and bads
>>>> of upgrading or staying with the old.  I'm thinking about using the new
>>>> one pretty soon.  Heck, they ticked me off pretty bad with the /usr and
>>>> init thingy so I may as well jump off the cliff I was pushed up to.  :/
>>>>
>>>> 1/4 of the way down, all is good so far.  1/2 way down and all is good
>>>> so far.  3/4 way down and all is good so far.  I'm worried about that
>>>> sudden stop now.  O_O
>>>
>>> Well said :)
>>>
>>> I've heard a rumor that Windows doesn't like GUID partition tables, so
>>> I haven't yet installed grub2 on my one machine that still multiboots
>>> between operating systems.  (That's my one remaining machine with a
>>> legal install of Windows.)  I confess I'm not interested enough to
>>> confirm the rumor, so I continue to wait because there is no incentive
>>> for me to make the change.
>>>
>>>
>> I've never had a problem with Grub 2 + Windows (XP, Vista, 7, still
>> haven't had the will to sacrifice myself for 8).  Although sometimes
>> it seems, with all the complaining some linux users like to do about
>> new software, I must be a wee bit lucky.  Been using Grub 2 alpha/beta
>> for years with much success!  I've so far enjoyed the configuration
>> more than legacy Grub.
>
> Just to confirm, my reservations are not about Windows, but about GUID
> partitions.  Are you using GUID partition tables?
>
No, I'm not using GUID right now.  But I don't believe this has
anything to do with Grub 2 itself and from what I can tell you don't
actually use GPT on your dual-boot machine anyway.  Though that would
take away the main reason to upgrade.  Doing a quick DDG search, I see
more positive than negative about Windows + GTP.  I think we should
promote a greater sense of adventure.

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-06-29, Alecks Gates <alecks.g@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've never had a problem with Grub 2 + Windows (XP, Vista, 7, still
> haven't had the will to sacrifice myself for 8).

I've had problems with Ubuntu and Grub2.  It seems you can't install
grub2 anywhere except the MBR, but I think that may be a bug in the
installer rather than Grub2.

> Although sometimes it seems, with all the complaining some linux
> users like to do about new software, I must be a wee bit lucky.

Nah, mostly we just like to complain.

Young kids these days with their fancy graphics and bloated
software...

Things have been going steadily downhill since the days of V7 on a
PDP-11 with 256K words of RAM, a 20MB hard drive and uucp via dial-up
modems for "networking".  Real programmers didn't _need_ more that 64k
of text and 64k data to get the job done.  And that machine supported
8 software engineers doing embedded SW development.  In the snow.  Up
hill both ways.  And we liked it!

> Been using Grub 2 alpha/beta for years with much success!  I've so
> far enjoyed the configuration more than legacy Grub.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! MMM-MM!!  So THIS is
                                  at               BIO-NEBULATION!
                              gmail.com            

[OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday 29 June 2012 21:46:20 Grant Edwards wrote:

> Things have been going steadily downhill since the days of V7 on a
> PDP-11 with 256K words of RAM, a 20MB hard drive and uucp via dial-up
> modems for "networking".  Real programmers didn't _need_ more that
> 64k of text and 64k data to get the job done.

Sorry, but that's just bloat. When I joined the software development 
effort on the national grid control system in 1980 (I was the third of 
three) we had two Ferranti Argus 500 computers, one on-line and one 
standby, each with 32KB RAM (twice as much as the same machines had at 
the newly commissioning AGR power stations); 24-bit word length with 
hardware key switches on the control panel (holy of holies). The three 
disks were 2MB monsters, three feet six tall, five feet long and eighteen 
inches wide, with air filtering systems we were supposed to know about 
but Never Touch. Each disk could be connected to either CPU under 
software control. The displays were graphic stroke writers, as used in 
submarines and other warships - none of that nasty raster technology. I 
think the display drivers were more complex than the CPUs - all that D-A 
conversion of multiple values at once. Can you imagine X and Y amplifiers 
to drive a spot in a circle - and meet up? Then a display full of them. 
Those devices occupied as much cubicle space as the CPUs. Oh, and there 
was a third machine (you wouldn't call it a box) for software 
development. Paper tape for program I/O - not punched cards I'm glad to 
say.

My boss was often called on to escort parties of power utility visitors, 
mostly American, around the control centre. Their most common question 
was "yes, I see the display drivers, but now where is your mainframe?" 
Of course we didn't have one nor need one; we used subtle engineering in 
those days rather than throwing money at the problem. That changed 
later, but that's another story, and so is the use of PDP-11s in a minor 
role.

Then the time came to replace that ageing technology. The man in charge 
of the project complained to me once that, although he admired what we 
were achieving, he couldn't freeze a user spec while we kept on making 
the machine jump through ever-higher hoops. A proud moment for me - 
there was still life in the old dogs yet, so why must they be replaced?

Not now, but I'll tell you some day about my proudest achievement in 
assembler programming. Perhaps also what happened at three a.m. after 
most bank holiday Mondays. Cyril might not like me telling you though.

As I said in the subject: OT.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Michael Mol]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Friday 29 June 2012 21:46:20 Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Things have been going steadily downhill since the days of V7 on a
>> PDP-11 with 256K words of RAM, a 20MB hard drive and uucp via dial-up
>> modems for "networking".  Real programmers didn't _need_ more that
>> 64k of text and 64k data to get the job done.
>
> Sorry, but that's just bloat. When I joined the software development
> effort on the national grid control system in 1980 (I was the third of
> three) we had two Ferranti Argus 500 computers, one on-line and one
> standby, each with 32KB RAM (twice as much as the same machines had at
> the newly commissioning AGR power stations); 24-bit word length with
> hardware key switches on the control panel (holy of holies). The three
> disks were 2MB monsters, three feet six tall, five feet long and eighteen
> inches wide, with air filtering systems we were supposed to know about
> but Never Touch. Each disk could be connected to either CPU under
> software control. The displays were graphic stroke writers, as used in
> submarines and other warships - none of that nasty raster technology. I
> think the display drivers were more complex than the CPUs - all that D-A
> conversion of multiple values at once. Can you imagine X and Y amplifiers
> to drive a spot in a circle - and meet up? Then a display full of them.
> Those devices occupied as much cubicle space as the CPUs. Oh, and there
> was a third machine (you wouldn't call it a box) for software
> development. Paper tape for program I/O - not punched cards I'm glad to
> say.
>
> My boss was often called on to escort parties of power utility visitors,
> mostly American, around the control centre. Their most common question
> was "yes, I see the display drivers, but now where is your mainframe?"
> Of course we didn't have one nor need one; we used subtle engineering in
> those days rather than throwing money at the problem. That changed
> later, but that's another story, and so is the use of PDP-11s in a minor
> role.
>
> Then the time came to replace that ageing technology. The man in charge
> of the project complained to me once that, although he admired what we
> were achieving, he couldn't freeze a user spec while we kept on making
> the machine jump through ever-higher hoops. A proud moment for me -
> there was still life in the old dogs yet, so why must they be replaced?
>
> Not now, but I'll tell you some day about my proudest achievement in
> assembler programming. Perhaps also what happened at three a.m. after
> most bank holiday Mondays. Cyril might not like me telling you though.
>
> As I said in the subject: OT.

I'm going to put a reminder in my calendar to poke you about this. :)


-- 
:wq

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Re: Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-06-30, Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Friday 29 June 2012 21:46:20 Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Things have been going steadily downhill since the days of V7 on a
>> PDP-11 with 256K words of RAM, a 20MB hard drive and uucp via dial-up
>> modems for "networking".  Real programmers didn't _need_ more that
>> 64k of text and 64k data to get the job done.
>
> Sorry, but that's just bloat. When I joined the software development 
> effort on the national grid control system in 1980 (I was the third of 
> three) we had two Ferranti Argus 500 computers, one on-line and one 
> standby, each with 32KB RAM (twice as much as the same machines had at 
> the newly commissioning AGR power stations)

Touche!

> The displays were graphic stroke writers, as used in submarines and
> other warships - none of that nasty raster technology. I think the
> display drivers were more complex than the CPUs - all that D-A 
> conversion of multiple values at once. Can you imagine X and Y
> amplifiers to drive a spot in a circle - and meet up?

That's actually pretty trivial: Feed a sine wave into X and cosine
into Y.  AC amplitude controls size, DC offsets control position.
Hint: cosine is just sine phase shifted by 90 degrees, so you can do
that with a single resistor and capacitor.

> Then a display full of them. 

Been there, done that. :)

It was one of the standard junior-level homework lab assignements when
I was in College back around 1980: design, build, and demonstrate a
circuit that would display the contents of a 2716 EPROM (in binary) on
an X-Y vector display (e.g. oscilloscope).  It's not as hard as you
might think. All it takes is a a counter, a half-dozen gates, and
about three op-amps.  It fit on one of these proto-boards:

http://www.busboard.us/photos/BPS-IMG-BB830.jpg

IIRC, it displayed one byte per line (eight '1' or '0' characters),
eight bytes per "page". It used a dip-switch to select what "page"
from the EPROM to display.  Expanding the 8x8 display to something
like 128x64 would just require slightly longer counters.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Re: Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 30 June 2012 15:52:13 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-06-30, Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> > The displays were graphic stroke writers, as used in submarines and
> > other warships - none of that nasty raster technology. I think the
> > display drivers were more complex than the CPUs - all that D-A
> > conversion of multiple values at once. Can you imagine X and Y
> > amplifiers to drive a spot in a circle - and meet up?
> 
> That's actually pretty trivial: Feed a sine wave into X and cosine
> into Y.  AC amplitude controls size, DC offsets control position.
> Hint: cosine is just sine phase shifted by 90 degrees, so you can do
> that with a single resistor and capacitor.

Hmm. Hadn't thought of doing it that way. Neat.

> > Then a display full of them.
> 
> Been there, done that. :)

:-)

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 824 bytes --]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:12:54 -0700, walt wrote:

> I've heard a rumor that Windows doesn't like GUID partition tables, so
> I haven't yet installed grub2 on my one machine that still multiboots
> between operating systems.  (That's my one remaining machine with a
> legal install of Windows.)  I confess I'm not interested enough to
> confirm the rumor, so I continue to wait because there is no incentive
> for me to make the change.

GRUB and GPT are completely unrelated, I use GRUB2 on machines with both
DOS and GPT partition tables, you don't need to repartition your drive to
upgrade your bootloader.

However, I also run GRUB legacy on some systems. I'd never install it
now, but if it's installed and working, why mess with it?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[walt]

On 06/29/2012 01:35 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> GRUB and GPT are completely unrelated, I use GRUB2 on machines with both
> DOS and GPT partition tables, you don't need to repartition your drive to
> upgrade your bootloader.

I didn't make myself clear.  I wouldn't hesitate to convert this machine
to GPT (I like it) but I don't know if Windows would like GPT.

I guess I should get off my butt and go google it.

Maybe tomorrow ;)

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[walt]

On 06/29/2012 05:55 PM, walt wrote:
> On 06/29/2012 01:35 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> GRUB and GPT are completely unrelated, I use GRUB2 on machines with
>> both DOS and GPT partition tables, you don't need to repartition
>> your drive to upgrade your bootloader.
> 
> I didn't make myself clear.  I wouldn't hesitate to convert this
> machine to GPT (I like it) but I don't know if Windows would like
> GPT.
> 
> I guess I should get off my butt and go google it.
> 
> Maybe tomorrow ;)

Hah!  I knew all along that if I waited long enough, David Haller would
post a link to this info:

Microsoft's FAQ is a bit pessimistic. It is possible to boot
Windows from a GPT disk on a BIOS-based computer, but the ways
to do this are hacks.

Thanks, David :)


-- 
This space left intentionally not blank.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012, walt wrote:
>On 06/29/2012 05:55 PM, walt wrote:
>> I didn't make myself clear.  I wouldn't hesitate to convert this
>> machine to GPT (I like it) but I don't know if Windows would like
>> GPT.
>> 
>> I guess I should get off my butt and go google it.
>> 
>> Maybe tomorrow ;)
>
>Hah!  I knew all along that if I waited long enough, David Haller would
>post a link to this info:

*whut* I've posted a mere 25 msgs here over quite a bit of time, and
you expect me to mail ...??? Do you know me from somewhere else? ;)

Anyway: you're welcome.

-dnh, who has his first 3T GPT partitioned drive (for data only, one
    2793GiB ext3 partition) in his main box since tuesday or so.

-- 
><logic mode="patent office">
Validator error in line 1: Contradiction in terms.
                                     -- C. Faerber, A. Krey

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[walt]

On 06/29/2012 10:12 PM, David Haller wrote:

> -dnh, who has his first 3T GPT partitioned drive (for data only, one
>     2793GiB ext3 partition) in his main box since tuesday or so.

Remember, pride goeth before the fsck.  Or something like that.

Why did you pick ext3 over ext4?  You can fsck ext4 in a flash
compared to ext3.  At least that's been my experience.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 29.06.2012 10:35, schrieb Neil Bothwick:

> However, I also run GRUB legacy on some systems. I'd never install
> it now, but if it's installed and working, why mess with it?

Same thoughts here.

If my system boots all the OSs I want to boot, why risk that?

Does it speed up things? How many *seconds* ? ....

I appreciate the efforts of development, and I am quite sure that
GRUB2 brings some new and important features ...

but, as far as I know, I don't need them ... yet.

If it is an easy migration/upgrade, ok, why not?

Otherwise, thanks ...

S

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 02.07.2012 00:14, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

> but, as far as I know, I don't need them ... yet.
> 
> If it is an easy migration/upgrade, ok, why not?
> 
> Otherwise, thanks ...

Call me a liar ;-)

Upgraded and migrated today ... took me a few reboots with GRUB1 (on
another hdd) to get those files right.

Runs OK now. Gotta check the advantages now.

S

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 02.07.2012 11:34, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

> Runs OK now. Gotta check the advantages now.

One issue:

I had to set

GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true

in /etc/default/grub

because at boot-time I always hit a nasty issue around blkid.

It can't find libgcc_s.so.1 somehow.
I rebuilt buysbox, util-linux, genkernel ... bla ... didn't fix it.
Might have to do with gcc-4.7.1 or something?

dunno. I googled around but didn't really find something fitting.

Ideas, anyone?

Otherwise the migration was quite OK for me ..

Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Hinnerk van Bruinehsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 02.07.2012 13:09, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Am 02.07.2012 11:34, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
> 
>> Runs OK now. Gotta check the advantages now.
> 
> One issue:
> 
> I had to set
> 
> GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true
> 
> in /etc/default/grub
> 
> because at boot-time I always hit a nasty issue around blkid.
> 
> It can't find libgcc_s.so.1 somehow. I rebuilt buysbox, util-linux,
> genkernel ... bla ... didn't fix it. Might have to do with
> gcc-4.7.1 or something?
> 
> dunno. I googled around but didn't really find something fitting.
> 
> Ideas, anyone?
> 
> Otherwise the migration was quite OK for me ..
> 
> Stefan
> 

I've successfully build (and installed) grub-2.0 with gcc-4.7.1
(hardened, not vanilla) and UUID works for me. Have you tried
revdep-rebuild/ emerge @preserved-rebuild ?


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP8YWhAAoJEJwwOFaNFkYcDfYH/ig8o6Fig3PWopEemmUGJTos
7txNHhKzt2HzMqdeEcNhIzE5yag3UUjc4511RE5UKmWr0CRqwk8TaJlbnqnMZn+q
hhCdXa5AjBBL1DvrizkRDx52jYPknMMoX2DbxgDGf3HbwFQkgFT4uJdxJ87R3LNH
Y0+ydYLyTBAwKb9RlwZTJkZBJs6i0bIon+0Lz2RUYh2N1XiL0CiWO1WeB9SCkHFk
M4FVvl7chaZ8jRNQZyXrjDDz0iGK9XcFiyPSLr2Q5Jgfx7jf/XqWGB8o+ol18LvI
EoMGhnIA8E9n8o5LcCcYL91bFndiP3BfCxa2TPX2KrXJWmovaboDNlWU3NCG3MA=
=QSP3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 02.07.2012 13:27, schrieb Hinnerk van Bruinehsen:

> I've successfully build (and installed) grub-2.0 with gcc-4.7.1 
> (hardened, not vanilla) and UUID works for me. Have you tried 
> revdep-rebuild/ emerge @preserved-rebuild ?

Yes, sure. revdep-rebuild found nothing related.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 02.07.2012 13:27, schrieb Hinnerk van Bruinehsen:
> On 02.07.2012 13:09, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
>> Am 02.07.2012 11:34, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
> 
>>> Runs OK now. Gotta check the advantages now.
> 
>> One issue:
> 
>> I had to set
> 
>> GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true
> 
>> in /etc/default/grub
> 
>> because at boot-time I always hit a nasty issue around blkid.
> 
>> It can't find libgcc_s.so.1 somehow. I rebuilt buysbox,
>> util-linux, genkernel ... bla ... didn't fix it. Might have to do
>> with gcc-4.7.1 or something?
> 
>> dunno. I googled around but didn't really find something
>> fitting.
> 
>> Ideas, anyone?
> 
>> Otherwise the migration was quite OK for me ..
> 
>> Stefan
> 
> 
> I've successfully build (and installed) grub-2.0 with gcc-4.7.1 
> (hardened, not vanilla) and UUID works for me. Have you tried 
> revdep-rebuild/ emerge @preserved-rebuild ?

The question is, where does that blkid come from? busybox? Inside the
initramfs? (I also rebuilt that initramfs, just in case)

I *assume* it can't access that library because it is located on /
which might not yet be mounted at that time?

My / is located on /dev/md0, and also contains /boot.

In the booted system blkid works just fine.

I don't really need UUID working, but it would be fine to debug this,
just to know about the issue.

Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 02.07.2012 14:11, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

> I don't really need UUID working, but it would be fine to debug this,
> just to know about the issue.

Aside from the UUID-issue I am fiddling with booting ISOs from hdd.

Numerous howtos, but I think it doesn't work with isos on LVM and/or
RAID ... sigh. One ubuntu-howto said that, so I even tried to store the
files on an NTFS partition ... no success so far.

Anyway. Grub 2 boots, good enough for me now ;-)

S

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Poncho]

On 03.07.2012 12:32, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Am 02.07.2012 14:11, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
> 
>> I don't really need UUID working, but it would be fine to debug this,
>> just to know about the issue.
> 
> Aside from the UUID-issue I am fiddling with booting ISOs from hdd.
> 
> Numerous howtos, but I think it doesn't work with isos on LVM and/or
> RAID ... sigh. One ubuntu-howto said that, so I even tried to store the
> files on an NTFS partition ... no success so far.
> 
> Anyway. Grub 2 boots, good enough for me now ;-)
> 
> S
> 
> 
> 

I can boot the systemrescuecd from /boot/systemrescuecd-x86-2.8.0.iso on
lvm. No raid though.

menuentry "SystemRescueCD" {
  set isofile=/systemrescuecd-x86-2.8.0.iso
  loopback loop $isofile
  linux (loop)/isolinux/rescue64 docache isoloop=$isofile
  initrd (loop)/isolinux/initram.igz
}

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 03.07.2012 15:45, schrieb Poncho:

> I can boot the systemrescuecd from /boot/systemrescuecd-x86-2.8.0.iso on
> lvm. No raid though.
> 
> menuentry "SystemRescueCD" {
>   set isofile=/systemrescuecd-x86-2.8.0.iso
>   loopback loop $isofile
>   linux (loop)/isolinux/rescue64 docache isoloop=$isofile
>   initrd (loop)/isolinux/initram.igz
> }

I had to use

set isofile=/boot/systemrescuecd-x86-2.8.0.iso

but then it worked. Yes, thanks! (that isoloop= option was new to me)

Now looking at the grml-options, just curious.

Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 02.07.2012 14:11, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

> The question is, where does that blkid come from? busybox? Inside the
> initramfs? (I also rebuilt that initramfs, just in case)
> 
> I *assume* it can't access that library because it is located on /
> which might not yet be mounted at that time?
> 
> My / is located on /dev/md0, and also contains /boot.
> 
> In the booted system blkid works just fine.

Should I file a bug? Anyone else hitting this?
I hesitate as I might have forgotten something simple/stupid.

S

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 03.07.2012 20:42, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

> Should I file a bug? Anyone else hitting this?
> I hesitate as I might have forgotten something simple/stupid.

bit the bullet:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424904

;-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Am 05.07.2012 15:09, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
> Am 03.07.2012 20:42, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
> 
>> Should I file a bug? Anyone else hitting this?
>> I hesitate as I might have forgotten something simple/stupid.
> 
> bit the bullet:
> 
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424904
> 
> ;-)

I learned that gcc-4.7.1 does things different ...

and how to boot from sw-raid w/ genkernel and grub 2.

See yourself at b.g.o. , link above.

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Michael Mol]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul Hartman wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
>> grub 2.00 has been released!
>>
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
>>
>>
>
>
> I wasn't expecting it to be that soon.  I guess it will hit the tree
> pretty soon then.  Well, we all need to think about the goods and bads
> of upgrading or staying with the old.  I'm thinking about using the new
> one pretty soon.  Heck, they ticked me off pretty bad with the /usr and
> init thingy so I may as well jump off the cliff I was pushed up to.  :/
>
> 1/4 of the way down, all is good so far.  1/2 way down and all is good
> so far.  3/4 way down and all is good so far.  I'm worried about that
> sudden stop now.  O_O
>
> Dale

*shuffles his feet*

I've started using genkernel. Once I discovered I can specify my own
kernel configuration, it got a lot less ugly to me. The initramfs
thing hasn't gotten in my way...yet. And it helped me recover an
install process once so far, so I can't complain _to_ much. My only
complaint thus far is its terrible error reporting. And since I'm
using an initramfs, I went ahead and dropped my / on top of a raid5
volume.

But even before I started using genkernel...grub2 sounded like a good
thing. One of the previous threads in here described how you assemble
its configuration, and it made a *lot* of sense, from an architectural
standpoint.


-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Bill Kenworthy]

On Thu, 2012-06-28 at 20:36 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Paul Hartman wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.
> >> grub 2.00 has been released!
> >>
> >> https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > I wasn't expecting it to be that soon.  I guess it will hit the tree
> > pretty soon then.  Well, we all need to think about the goods and bads
> > of upgrading or staying with the old.  I'm thinking about using the new
> > one pretty soon.  Heck, they ticked me off pretty bad with the /usr and
> > init thingy so I may as well jump off the cliff I was pushed up to.  :/
> >
> > 1/4 of the way down, all is good so far.  1/2 way down and all is good
> > so far.  3/4 way down and all is good so far.  I'm worried about that
> > sudden stop now.  O_O
> >
> > Dale
> 
> *shuffles his feet*
> 
> I've started using genkernel. Once I discovered I can specify my own
> kernel configuration, it got a lot less ugly to me. The initramfs
> thing hasn't gotten in my way...yet. And it helped me recover an
> install process once so far, so I can't complain _to_ much. My only
> complaint thus far is its terrible error reporting. And since I'm
> using an initramfs, I went ahead and dropped my / on top of a raid5
> volume.
> 
> But even before I started using genkernel...grub2 sounded like a good
> thing. One of the previous threads in here described how you assemble
> its configuration, and it made a *lot* of sense, from an architectural
> standpoint.
> 
> 

genkernel error reporting can be improved no end by editing the script
(/usr/share/genkernel/defaults/linuxrc) and sprinkling with echo,
good_msg and bad_msg statements ...

Unfortunately it cant log to a file (or at least I have not tried) so
sleep statements may help so you read the messages.

Copy the above script to a new name and run genkernel as "genkernel
--color --linuxrc=/usr/share/genkernel/defaults/linuxrc.uswsusp
--initramfs-overlay=/var/lib/genkernel/overlay --lvm --menuconfig all "

The overlay is a some extra stuff I wanted in the initramfs for suspend
to disk.

BillK




BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Mike Gilbert]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> It appears that grub2 is coming soon.  Thread on -dev said a couple
> months or so till it hits the tree, keyworded and/or masked I'm sure.  I
> guess it is about time to jump off the cliff and give this a try.  I
> installed Kubuntu on a system for my brother and it uses grub2.  I have
> had to edit the config and then run the update script.  I have sort of
> installed and made a config change to grub2, even tho it was only once.
> Basically, I sort of seen the thing at least.  o_O
>
> My first question is, how hard is this to change from old grub to
> grub2?  I only run Gentoo here, no windoze at all and no other distro
> either.  I figure that may make it easier.  I must confess tho, I'm a
> hoarder of kernels.  LOL   I generally have several versions of them on
> here.  Is there a way for it to only see say the last 3 versions or so?
> I only have three right now but I cleaned out all the non-init kernels a
> while back.  Given time, I may have a dozen or so.  I would rather not
> have that many lines on the grub screen when booting.
>
> Also, will it know what init thingy image to connect the kernels too?  I
> name my kernels with the version and name the init thingy with a similar
> name.  Looks someting like this:
>
> root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/bzImage-3.*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4740064 May 16 20:25 /boot/bzImage-3.3.5-2
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758496 May 23 13:09 /boot/bzImage-3.4.0-1
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4758816 Jun 14 09:00 /boot/bzImage-3.4.2.r1-1
> root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/initramfs-3.*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560934 May 12 05:03 /boot/initramfs-3.3.5-1.img
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3560423 May 23 13:10 /boot/initramfs-3.4.0.img
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3561170 Jun 14 09:05 /boot/initramfs-3.4.2.img
> root@fireball / #
>
> There are times when I may have more than one kernel but only one init
> thingy tho.  So far, one init thingy will work with any kernel of that
> version.  I have not tried mixing tho.
>
> Also, how much disk space does grub take up on /boot?  Mine is on a
> separate partition and I hope it is large enough.
>
> Thoughts.  Info.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

Thanks for "announcing" this Dale. grub-2.00 is in ~arch as of last night.

Given your current naming scheme, grub2-mkconfig will not detect your
kernels. They must be named vmlinuz-version or kernel-version. For
example:

/boot/vmlinuz-3.4.3
/boot/kernel-2.6.39-gentoo

Your initramfs files look good.

Space wise, grub needs a couple hundred sectors after your MBR to
embed itself. If you used the default fdisk setting when you
partitioned your drive, you should have 2047 free sectors that it can
use.

If you have your kernels named properly and some free sectors on your
hard drive, setting up grub:2 is a very easy process. See the wiki
page for more info.

http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[walt]

On 06/29/2012 08:05 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> 
> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start

Thanks for the tip.  /etc/make.conf strikes me as an odd
place to put settings that apply to only one package.

Any idea why that decision was made?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 928 bytes --]

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:45:34 -0700, walt wrote:

> > http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start  
> 
> Thanks for the tip.  /etc/make.conf strikes me as an odd
> place to put settings that apply to only one package.

How about

VIDEO_CARDS - only used by xorg-drivers
LIRC_DEVICES - only used by lirc
SANE_BACKENDS - only used by sane
CAMERAS - only used by (lib)gphoto
APACHE2_MODULES - you get the idea by now
QEMU_SOFTMMU_TARGETS
QEMU_USER_TARGETS
FOO2ZJS_DEVICES
DRACUT_MODULES
CALLIGRA_FEATURES

These are all use-expanded variables, so make.conf is the most logical of
the existing locations to include them. In some ways, a directory
in /etc/portage (something like package.conf) would make more sense, now
that there are so many more of these. Incidentally, all of these are in
my current make.conf


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Shell to DOS... Shell to DOS... DOS, do you copy? Shell to DOS...

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Mike Gilbert]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 8:45 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/29/2012 08:05 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
>>
>> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start
>
> Thanks for the tip.  /etc/make.conf strikes me as an odd
> place to put settings that apply to only one package.
>
> Any idea why that decision was made?
>

GRUB_PLATFORMS is a use-expanded variable. Portage translates it into
special use flags at runtime. Other use-expands include LINGUAS,
VIDEO_CARDS, INPUT_DEVICES.

The easiest place to define a use-expanded variable is make.conf. You
could use package.env instead, or specify the use flags manually
without the use-expand magic in package.use.

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Mike Gilbert wrote:
> Thanks for "announcing" this Dale. grub-2.00 is in ~arch as of last night.
>
> Given your current naming scheme, grub2-mkconfig will not detect your
> kernels. They must be named vmlinuz-version or kernel-version. For
> example:
>
> /boot/vmlinuz-3.4.3
> /boot/kernel-2.6.39-gentoo
>
> Your initramfs files look good.
>
> Space wise, grub needs a couple hundred sectors after your MBR to
> embed itself. If you used the default fdisk setting when you
> partitioned your drive, you should have 2047 free sectors that it can
> use.
>
> If you have your kernels named properly and some free sectors on your
> hard drive, setting up grub:2 is a very easy process. See the wiki
> page for more info.
>
> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start
>
>

Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?  If it is,
is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something?  If I need
a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing?  I have
looked and I don't have one on mine here.  Maybe I am missing
something.  Google didn't find me anything either.

Someone else posted the space their grub2 install used so I got plenty
of space for that.  I made /boot about 375Mbs last time, thinking about
grub2 I guess.  So, I guess I am good on that part. 

Thanks much. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Michael Mol]

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mike Gilbert wrote:
>> Thanks for "announcing" this Dale. grub-2.00 is in ~arch as of last night.
>>
>> Given your current naming scheme, grub2-mkconfig will not detect your
>> kernels. They must be named vmlinuz-version or kernel-version. For
>> example:
>>
>> /boot/vmlinuz-3.4.3
>> /boot/kernel-2.6.39-gentoo
>>
>> Your initramfs files look good.
>>
>> Space wise, grub needs a couple hundred sectors after your MBR to
>> embed itself. If you used the default fdisk setting when you
>> partitioned your drive, you should have 2047 free sectors that it can
>> use.
>>
>> If you have your kernels named properly and some free sectors on your
>> hard drive, setting up grub:2 is a very easy process. See the wiki
>> page for more info.
>>
>> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start
>>
>>
>
> Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
> never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
> kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?  If it is,
> is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something?  If I need
> a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing?  I have
> looked and I don't have one on mine here.  Maybe I am missing
> something.  Google didn't find me anything either.

AFAIK, you should be fine renaming bzImage to vmlinuz. (Note the z.
It's vmlinuz, not vmlinux")

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Michael Mol wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike Gilbert wrote:
>>> Thanks for "announcing" this Dale. grub-2.00 is in ~arch as of last night.
>>>
>>> Given your current naming scheme, grub2-mkconfig will not detect your
>>> kernels. They must be named vmlinuz-version or kernel-version. For
>>> example:
>>>
>>> /boot/vmlinuz-3.4.3
>>> /boot/kernel-2.6.39-gentoo
>>>
>>> Your initramfs files look good.
>>>
>>> Space wise, grub needs a couple hundred sectors after your MBR to
>>> embed itself. If you used the default fdisk setting when you
>>> partitioned your drive, you should have 2047 free sectors that it can
>>> use.
>>>
>>> If you have your kernels named properly and some free sectors on your
>>> hard drive, setting up grub:2 is a very easy process. See the wiki
>>> page for more info.
>>>
>>> http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
>> never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
>> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
>> kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?  If it is,
>> is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something?  If I need
>> a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing?  I have
>> looked and I don't have one on mine here.  Maybe I am missing
>> something.  Google didn't find me anything either.
> AFAIK, you should be fine renaming bzImage to vmlinuz. (Note the z.
> It's vmlinuz, not vmlinux")
>

Well that fixed one thing already.  lol  I bet I would have named that
wrong.  ;-) 

vmlinuz.  Weird.  They did that to confuse me didn't they.  :/ 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> AFAIK, you should be fine renaming bzImage to vmlinuz. (Note the z.
>> It's vmlinuz, not vmlinux")
>>
>
> Well that fixed one thing already.  lol  I bet I would have named that
> wrong.  ;-)
>
> vmlinuz.  Weird.  They did that to confuse me didn't they.  :/
>
> Dale

I continue to call them things like bzImage-3.3.8-gentoo and the like,
however vmlinuz has been around forever and a day...

- Mark

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vmlinuz

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 30/06/12 17:10, Dale wrote:
> Michael Mol wrote:
>> AFAIK, you should be fine renaming bzImage to vmlinuz. (Note the z.
>> It's vmlinuz, not vmlinux")
>
> Well that fixed one thing already.  lol  I bet I would have named that
> wrong.  ;-)
>
> vmlinuz.  Weird.  They did that to confuse me didn't they.  :/

I think that you can just symlink the kernel you want to vmlinuz, and 
then every time you "make install" in the kernel sources will 
automatically update that symlink.  (Assuming you have the 
sys-apps/debianutils package installed.)

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 309 bytes --]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:10:11 -0500, Dale wrote:

> vmlinuz.  Weird.  They did that to confuse me didn't they.  :/ 

Just to confuse things, I used to run a PPC machine, and the kernel was
called vmlinux on that :-O


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Ultimate memory manager; Windows, it manages to use it all..

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 01/07/12 01:06, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:10:11 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> vmlinuz.  Weird.  They did that to confuse me didn't they.  :/
>
> Just to confuse things, I used to run a PPC machine, and the kernel was
> called vmlinux on that :-O

IIRC, "vmlinux" was the name for uncompressed kernel images, and 
"vmlinuz" for compressed ones.

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[G.Wolfe Woodbury]

On 06/30/2012 05:50 AM, Dale wrote:
> Thanks. Now more questions. I have read about this a few times but 
> never quite figured it out. I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-* 
> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a 
> kernel. Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux? If it is, 
> is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something? If I 
> need a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing? I 
> have looked and I don't have one on mine here. Maybe I am missing 
> something. Google didn't find me anything either.
The bzImage is a vmlinuz (or vmlinuz) image, and is what grub2 expects 
to use with a "linux" kernel definition.
I usually copy the bzImage to a file named "gentoo.XYZ" where the XYZ is 
the kernel version number.  I'm not sure if
grub-mkconfig is yet smart enough to figure it out completely, but I've 
been using grub2 with my gentoo partitions for a while.
Certainly, grub-mkconfig in fedora recognizes the gentoo disk properly 
as another linux installation (via the os-prober) and
builds menuentries for them.  It may just be reading the grub2/grub.cfg 
file I wrote.

One thing is certain, grub2 doesn't have to have all the scripting and 
rigamarole that fedora and GNU put in via the grub-mkconfig
command, a simple config file will work as well.   GNU has grub2 in the 
RC1 phase right now and I've built it under fedora and gentoo
and use it.  I've gone from using a grub2 cdrom boot to using the BIOS 
boot menu device select to control whether I'm going into
Linux or Win7 (Win7 is on the default device and grub2 for fedora and 
gentoo are on other discs.)

I'm using a shared /home partition with slightly different uids for each 
system, but a common "username".  Each uid homedir
contains native dotfiles for a variety of services and some symlinks to 
a common set of {Documents, Downloads,Public,Pictures,
and public_html} directories.

Grub2 isn't that hard to do, it's just /different/

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 542 bytes --]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 04:50:27 -0500, Dale wrote:

> Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
> never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
> kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?

The spelling :)

Seriously though, why not use make install? That way you know the right
files get copied and given the expected names.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

*/ \*         <- Tribbles having a swordfight

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 04:50:27 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
>> never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
>> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
>> kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?
> The spelling :)
>
> Seriously though, why not use make install? That way you know the right
> files get copied and given the expected names.
>
>

Because I name my kernel and config the same thing.  I also don't like
the way it does that link thingy it does.  It seems to expect to keep
only two kernels around and I'm real bad to have more than that,
sometimes way more than that.  Plus, if I do it myself, I know what I am
doing.  If I use make install, I don't know if something was changed in
how it does it. 

It's just me being me.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Neil Bothwick wrote:

> > Seriously though, why not use make install? That way you know the
> > right files get copied and given the expected names.
> 
> Because I name my kernel and config the same thing.  I also don't like
> the way it does that link thingy it does.  It seems to expect to keep
> only two kernels around and I'm real bad to have more than that,
> sometimes way more than that.  Plus, if I do it myself, I know what I am
> doing.  If I use make install, I don't know if something was changed in
> how it does it. 
> 
> It's just me being me.  lol

No, me too. In my history of using Linux, I very often had trouble with
new kernels. When I had an NVidia graphics card, that often caused
trouble. Nowadays it's ISDN sometimes.

The fact that I build a new kernel does not necessarily mean that I want
to boot it yet. And I want to keep old kernels around, several, not only
the last one. I do not reboot often, so sometimes multiple kernel versions
have been installed since the last reboot. I would not want my current
kernel to have vanished, just in case I will need it again when the new
ones do not work. With kernel >= 3.4.3 I had two weird panics in the last
two weeks, I am still using it, but maybe I will need 3.3.5 again, which
would be the sixth-newest one. And I think that maybe hibernation and
ISDN used to work longer ago, maybe I will give the last 2.6 kernel a try
again.

So I use genkernel to build and install new kernels, and modify grub.conf
manually to add this kernel to the menu. The .config is also being copied
to the boot partition, using a similar name as the kernel and the
initramfs.

I'll continue to use the old Grub, as it's working fine for me. I
understand it very well, probably because there is not much to
understand. Ususally it only takes root (hd0,0) and setup (hd0) commands
to install, and the config file is very easy to edit.

I had some painful experiences with Grub2 on Ubuntu, and did not
understand for a while what to do. There's too much automagic involved,
scripts creating the actual grub.cfg file. Config files in /etc/grub.d
and /etc/default/grub. There's grub-install, grub-setup, update-grub, and
what else. The Grub menu is shown only if there are multiple operating
systems installed, it took me quite a while to figure out how to make it
appear at all.

Gentoo is a distro for experts they say, but for me it seems to be
actually easier than other distros like Ubuntu which are supposed to be
easy. Yes, they are, but only when you do standard things. If your setup
is somewhat special, it's actually harder to figure out what is necessary
to do, at least that's my experience.

	Wonko

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Hartmut Figge]

Alex Schuster:

>I'll continue to use the old Grub, as it's working fine for me.

And i am still happy with lilo. Am i the only one? ;)

Hartmut
-- 
Usenet-ABC-Wiki http://www.usenet-abc.de/wiki/
Von Usern fuer User  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Frank Peters]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:05:31 +0200
Hartmut Figge <h.figge@gmx.de> wrote:

> 
> And i am still happy with lilo. Am i the only one? ;)
> 

Heck no.  I use lilo on all of my LInux machines, and when the
time comes to switch to EFI, I will switch to elilo.

In fact, the Intel MB's that I use all have the capability
to use EFI and I will shortly be experimenting with EFI/elilo.

My needs are simple and simple tools are appropriate and available.
Wouldn't it be a shame if, by popular assent, nothing else were
maintained other than grub.

Frank Peters

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Walter Dnes]

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 07:05:31PM +0200, Hartmut Figge wrote

> And i am still happy with lilo. Am i the only one? ;)

  Me too.  I have 2 kernels in the boot menu.  "Production" and
"Experimental".  Boot defaults to "Production".  New kernels are loaded
as experimental.  If it panics/dies consistently, I go back to square 1.
After it works OK for a few weeks, I run a "promote" script that copies
"Experimental" to "Production", and the cycle can begin again.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1281 bytes --]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:07:30 -0500, Dale wrote:

> > Seriously though, why not use make install? That way you know the
> > right files get copied and given the expected names.

> Because I name my kernel and config the same thing.

make install also copies your config to /boot, with a matching name.

> I also don't like
> the way it does that link thingy it does.

It only does that if you already have the links, i.e. it updates them,
not creates them..

> It seems to expect to keep
> only two kernels around and I'm real bad to have more than that,
> sometimes way more than that.

No it doesn't, it only installs kernels, not uninstalls them. Sure, there
are only two symlinks but those are less relevant with GRUB2 since
grub2-mkconfig creates menu entries for all your kernels anyway.

> Plus, if I do it myself, I know what I am
> doing.  If I use make install, I don't know if something was changed in
> how it does it. 

So you trust make to compile and link hundreds of object files and create
the kernels and modules. You also trust it to copy all the modules, but
you just want to copy that one last file manually so you can pretend you
are in control? ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Feminism: the radical notion that women are people.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1363 bytes --]

On Saturday 30 Jun 2012 23:01:40 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:07:30 -0500, Dale wrote:

> > It seems to expect to keep
> > only two kernels around and I'm real bad to have more than that,
> > sometimes way more than that.
> 
> No it doesn't, it only installs kernels, not uninstalls them. Sure, there
> are only two symlinks but those are less relevant with GRUB2 since
> grub2-mkconfig creates menu entries for all your kernels anyway.

Aha!  This will be useful for me.

I have not used make install because I found that it would override previous 
kernels of mine that I might needed to revert to.

I remember you (or someone as knowledgeable) had mentioned of a way to 
automate the linkage and naming of vmlinuz so that older kernels were retained 
and versioned, but I never went as far as experimenting with it.

> > Plus, if I do it myself, I know what I am
> > doing.  If I use make install, I don't know if something was changed in
> > how it does it.
> 
> So you trust make to compile and link hundreds of object files and create
> the kernels and modules. You also trust it to copy all the modules, but
> you just want to copy that one last file manually so you can pretend you
> are in control? ;-)

Well, he and I are at least in control of this copying and naming actions?  
;-)
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Saturday 30 Jun 2012 23:01:40 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:07:30 -0500, Dale wrote:
>>> It seems to expect to keep
>>> only two kernels around and I'm real bad to have more than that,
>>> sometimes way more than that.
>> No it doesn't, it only installs kernels, not uninstalls them. Sure, there
>> are only two symlinks but those are less relevant with GRUB2 since
>> grub2-mkconfig creates menu entries for all your kernels anyway.
> Aha!  This will be useful for me.
>
> I have not used make install because I found that it would override previous 
> kernels of mine that I might needed to revert to.
>
> I remember you (or someone as knowledgeable) had mentioned of a way to 
> automate the linkage and naming of vmlinuz so that older kernels were retained 
> and versioned, but I never went as far as experimenting with it.

Me either.  I just do it the easy way using cp.  That way, I know what
is what and that I have not overwritten anything I might need later.  I
like to be sure since I have had kernels with bugs for my system. 

>
>>> Plus, if I do it myself, I know what I am
>>> doing.  If I use make install, I don't know if something was changed in
>>> how it does it.
>> So you trust make to compile and link hundreds of object files and create
>> the kernels and modules. You also trust it to copy all the modules, but
>> you just want to copy that one last file manually so you can pretend you
>> are in control? ;-)
> Well, he and I are at least in control of this copying and naming actions?  
> ;-)

I might add, I don't use modules except for nvidia which is outside the
kernel.  So, I may be in more control than you think.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 640 bytes --]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 23:30:41 +0100, Mick wrote:

> > So you trust make to compile and link hundreds of object files and
> > create the kernels and modules. You also trust it to copy all the
> > modules, but you just want to copy that one last file manually so you
> > can pretend you are in control? ;-)  
> 
> Well, he and I are at least in control of this copying and naming
> actions? ;-)

I understand it with Dale, he needs to feel there is at least one thing
he can screw up himself and not blame on hal ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
 (Albert Einstein)

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 23:30:41 +0100, Mick wrote:
>
>>> So you trust make to compile and link hundreds of object files and
>>> create the kernels and modules. You also trust it to copy all the
>>> modules, but you just want to copy that one last file manually so you
>>> can pretend you are in control? ;-)  
>> Well, he and I are at least in control of this copying and naming
>> actions? ;-)
> I understand it with Dale, he needs to feel there is at least one thing
> he can screw up himself and not blame on hal ;-)
>
>


At least I know what was done and how to reverse it.  If I let a script
do it, I may not know what was done and how to fix it.  This has worked
for me ever since I started using Gentoo.  No need to reinvent the
wheel, not yet anyway. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[G.Wolfe Woodbury]

On 06/30/2012 05:50 AM, Dale wrote:
>
> Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
> never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
> kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?  If it is,
> is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something?  If I need
> a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing?  I have
> looked and I don't have one on mine here.  Maybe I am missing
> something.  Google didn't find me anything either.
>
As someone else said, the spelling.  For grub-mkconfig to recognize it 
as a kernel
the default names should begin with "vmlinuz-" or "kernel-"
For my gentoo disk, I rename the bzImage to gentoo.<XYZ> where the XYZ 
is the kernel
version number.  I hand mung the grub.cfg (still legacy grub) in the 
usual fashion.
I will probably migrate to grub2 pretty quick next time I play with the 
gentoo install.

Grub2 grub-mkconfig os-prober method recognizes grub legacy configs and 
builds proper
menuentry stanzas as needed.

I'm using multiple discs for booting my system.  The first drive (BIOS 
default) is a Win7 native,
but I use the BIOS "boot menu" options to usually boot grub2 from 
another drive.  This drive's grub.cfg
contains all of my linux installations, which are spread around 4 
different drives.

-- 
G.Wolfe Woodbury (redwolfe@gmail.com)

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

G.Wolfe Woodbury wrote:
> On 06/30/2012 05:50 AM, Dale wrote:
>>
>> Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
>> never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
>> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
>> kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?  If it is,
>> is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something?  If I need
>> a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing?  I have
>> looked and I don't have one on mine here.  Maybe I am missing
>> something.  Google didn't find me anything either.
>>
> As someone else said, the spelling.  For grub-mkconfig to recognize it
> as a kernel
> the default names should begin with "vmlinuz-" or "kernel-"
> For my gentoo disk, I rename the bzImage to gentoo.<XYZ> where the XYZ
> is the kernel
> version number.  I hand mung the grub.cfg (still legacy grub) in the
> usual fashion.
> I will probably migrate to grub2 pretty quick next time I play with
> the gentoo install.
>
> Grub2 grub-mkconfig os-prober method recognizes grub legacy configs
> and builds proper
> menuentry stanzas as needed.
>
> I'm using multiple discs for booting my system.  The first drive (BIOS
> default) is a Win7 native,
> but I use the BIOS "boot menu" options to usually boot grub2 from
> another drive.  This drive's grub.cfg
> contains all of my linux installations, which are spread around 4
> different drives.
>
Ahhhh, I can name it kernel.  That makes more sense to me.  Me votes for
kernel-x.y.z.  Heck, this may work for me. 

I still don't like the deal of having to run something after changing
the kernel tho.  It seems to lilo-ish to me. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 588 bytes --]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:24:17 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I still don't like the deal of having to run something after changing
> the kernel tho.  It seems to lilo-ish to me. 

Then how do you manage with GRUB legacy? If you don't have symlinks to
the kernels and you don't update the config, how do you boot the new
kernel? You have to update the config, GRUB2 just has an option to do
this automatically.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

furbling, v.:
	Having to wander through a maze of ropes at an airport or bank
	even when you are the only person in line.
		-- Rich Hall, "Sniglets"

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:24:17 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> I still don't like the deal of having to run something after changing
>> the kernel tho.  It seems to lilo-ish to me. 
> Then how do you manage with GRUB legacy? If you don't have symlinks to
> the kernels and you don't update the config, how do you boot the new
> kernel? You have to update the config, GRUB2 just has an option to do
> this automatically.
>
>

It's simple.  I open grub.conf and add a entry into it.  I do that
manually so I that I know what is changed.  I also keep a couple older
entries just in case a kernel gets messed up, has a bug or won't boot
for some reason etc.  I don't use symlinks for kernels at all.  I been
doing it that way for years and it works very well for me.  If something
goes wrong, I know what I did and how to fix it.  If I use some script,
I may not know exactly what the script did. 

The key thing is, after I change the grub.conf file, I don't have to run
anything else.  It just works.  Grub2 does tho.  That reminds me of how
lilo does it.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Alecks Gates]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2068 bytes --]

On Jun 30, 2012 7:13 PM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:24:17 -0500, Dale wrote:
> >
> >> I still don't like the deal of having to run something after changing
> >> the kernel tho.  It seems to lilo-ish to me.
> > Then how do you manage with GRUB legacy? If you don't have symlinks to
> > the kernels and you don't update the config, how do you boot the new
> > kernel? You have to update the config, GRUB2 just has an option to do
> > this automatically.
> >
> >
>
> It's simple.  I open grub.conf and add a entry into it.  I do that
> manually so I that I know what is changed.  I also keep a couple older
> entries just in case a kernel gets messed up, has a bug or won't boot
> for some reason etc.  I don't use symlinks for kernels at all.  I been
> doing it that way for years and it works very well for me.  If something
> goes wrong, I know what I did and how to fix it.  If I use some script,
> I may not know exactly what the script did.
>
The scripts are there for you to read, and even modify.

> The key thing is, after I change the grub.conf file, I don't have to run
> anything else.  It just works.  Grub2 does tho.  That reminds me of how
> lilo does it.
>
You don't have to run anything after you create grub.conf with Grub2.  In
fact, you can still manually edit the config file without using the config
generation scripts.  But the generation scripts are, once again, both
readable and editable.  I've also never once had them create an improper
config.  I just use it because it's faster, since it works.

The only problem I had with Grub2 was the grub2 folder in /boot, as I had
previously used it on Ubuntu and was confused (so this was gentoo-specific
to me, and I had arrogantly ignored the package output).

Really, I don't think it's as different as you think.  And I, too, manually
cp over my kernels after I build them, but only because it never occurred
to me to even USE "make install".  The next kernel I build I will be trying
it!

Alecks Gates, sent from Android on an HTC G2

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2465 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 867 bytes --]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:13:07 -0500, Dale wrote:

> The key thing is, after I change the grub.conf file, I don't have to run
> anything else.  It just works.  Grub2 does tho.  That reminds me of how
> lilo does it.

You're wrong there. All grub2-mkconfig does is update the config
file, it's nothing like lilo. If you use symlinks, you don't have to run
anything, just like with GRUB 0.

I used to have a script to do the make/make install and add all kernels
to the GRUB menu, now the latter part is handled more cleanly by
grub2-mkconfig, without my giving up any controls of how or where the
entries are added.

Of course, you could hex-edit the MBR if you wanted real control, why
trust a text editor to get it right? :-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Format: (v.) to erase irrevocably and unintentionally.
        (n.) The process of such erasure.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> G.Wolfe Woodbury wrote:
>> On 06/30/2012 05:50 AM, Dale wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks.  Now more questions.  I have read about this a few times but
>>> never quite figured it out.  I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
>>> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
>>> kernel.  Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux?  If it is,
>>> is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something?  If I need
>>> a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing?  I have
>>> looked and I don't have one on mine here.  Maybe I am missing
>>> something.  Google didn't find me anything either.
>>>
>> As someone else said, the spelling.  For grub-mkconfig to recognize it
>> as a kernel
>> the default names should begin with "vmlinuz-" or "kernel-"
>> For my gentoo disk, I rename the bzImage to gentoo.<XYZ> where the XYZ
>> is the kernel
>> version number.  I hand mung the grub.cfg (still legacy grub) in the
>> usual fashion.
>> I will probably migrate to grub2 pretty quick next time I play with
>> the gentoo install.
>>
>> Grub2 grub-mkconfig os-prober method recognizes grub legacy configs
>> and builds proper
>> menuentry stanzas as needed.
>>
>> I'm using multiple discs for booting my system.  The first drive (BIOS
>> default) is a Win7 native,
>> but I use the BIOS "boot menu" options to usually boot grub2 from
>> another drive.  This drive's grub.cfg
>> contains all of my linux installations, which are spread around 4
>> different drives.
>>
> Ahhhh, I can name it kernel.  That makes more sense to me.  Me votes for
> kernel-x.y.z.  Heck, this may work for me.
>
> I still don't like the deal of having to run something after changing
> the kernel tho.  It seems to lilo-ish to me.

You can also make/maintain the grub.cfg yourself with grub2, just like
in old grub. In fact this is what I do... I don't use the
grub2-mkconfig each time, I only used it once to generate a file and
then edited it by hand after that. It is simply a tool to generate a
config file, certainly not a requirement.

I have /boot/vmlinuz and /boot/vmlinuz.old as options in my grub menu
(entitled "linux" and "linux (previous kernel)". When I "make install"
my kernel sources it automatically moves vmlinuz to vmlinuz.old and
copies the newest kernel to vmlinuz. The explicitly versioned files
are still placed there, too. This way I never have to screw around
with updating my grub config and it always points to latest kernel and
my previous kernel. (also have options for memtest86+ and windows 7)

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 743 bytes --]

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 20:30:10 -0500, Paul Hartman wrote:

> You can also make/maintain the grub.cfg yourself with grub2, just like
> in old grub. In fact this is what I do... I don't use the
> grub2-mkconfig each time, I only used it once to generate a file and
> then edited it by hand after that. It is simply a tool to generate a
> config file, certainly not a requirement.

You can also have the best of both worlds by adding a custom entry
in /etc/grub.d. That's what I do so I get my standard menu with all the
options I want, in the order I want, but still have all older kernels
listed below, just in case I'm feeling nostalgic.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Taglines are like cars - You get a good one, then someone nicks it.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Grub2 and is the upgrade a tooth puller.

[Hinnerk van Bruinehsen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 30.06.2012 22:24, Dale wrote:
<SNIP>
>> 
> Ahhhh, I can name it kernel.  That makes more sense to me.  Me
> votes for kernel-x.y.z.  Heck, this may work for me.
> 
> I still don't like the deal of having to run something after
> changing the kernel tho.  It seems to lilo-ish to me.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 

You could also change the bash script:

it resides in /etc/grub.d/10_linux

the relevant part is:

case "x$machine" in
    xi?86 | xx86_64)
        list=`for i in /boot/vmlinuz-* /vmlinuz-* /boot/kernel-* ; do
                  if grub_file_is_not_garbage "$i" ; then echo -n "$i
" ; fi
              done` ;;
    *)
        list=`for i in /boot/vmlinuz-* /boot/vmlinux-* /vmlinuz-*
/vmlinux-* /boot/kernel-* ; do
                  if grub_file_is_not_garbage "$i" ; then echo -n "$i
" ; fi
             done` ;;
esac


as you can see there are 2 parts: one für x86 and x86_64 and one for
the rest.
If you add it to the list it will find everything, you could even call
it "my-personal-kernel".

You only should add the path as well (/ or /boot/).

I've doing so for the initramfs for a while (I  have one static
initramfs which don't need to be updated for every kernel since my
config disables kernel modules).

Works fine. - You should only remember to look at it after a grub
update (though normally etc-update and co take care of that)

WKR
Hinnerk
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP8N7GAAoJEJwwOFaNFkYc+1wIAI401zc2YVMeXgDWl7uTwufZ
7/GeU81fQwyhJod7bcvVecvW3TaQ82IL8oubI18uc3OsjE4QxMLUwC0rJay1RPdU
sm/Y2hF+hRhPoowERj4AcvIDK3Uze9SLaLDkbRyadVqtD6/mdIAqMo+Bj6AT6tPV
SXWy0butZ4JiVpWGOaqza0Nlk90ClfUk6v8+COprFG6LPRB0R/+U73jtG7RjfF/r
QFnsdMSXQeOpDheRyQvpXiVDKFEeTsB9Hn9YZg8HemgXXxuHhZrnwMi9RWUgCVBi
QUJJnbDcayXKk24MOiEpwDCxppRuOAkT+Avb5lC8uZr0JBb23T5LVBdcFc2oeNM=
=n02R
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----