From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1ST8la-0006i6-6D for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 12 May 2012 09:37:35 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29652E0955; Sat, 12 May 2012 09:37:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com (mail-we0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B56E02CE for ; Sat, 12 May 2012 09:34:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werj55 with SMTP id j55so1444945wer.40 for ; Sat, 12 May 2012 02:34:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=GPRUNwLSv8J1yOHaxoyrQJZ2/cVtdAO2Ak7uu/n/5TQ=; b=ChJNpPt7PVA6DQiKufmzDAXW6sAyhWIAUNw8LGw61xgDEnPhaCP2OZ4Cgx/e2eRVNV de+HhB3eqEaLOOo8nkDhWuSLKIvjay1fGFKjwlwEMtrIgslefjo0G3bfu5i1rpQgT6pD zdm8XMM2hOHTGSk3NHhdUfXPbBwDwvbcLysc8sYkjq9JfbnR/eQbjVcDu8f0mW8tSbTh j8orsJxS98MCV7a4sb5T8mx5GFBJDaOaV5Jmjr7sPUmKKxbOwKL6+FAf+UZr3QEGgMdS wz+qpg08udRwAjofO0brZJF41or8mIE+gJxaPthdlvAhNv0f9mOQPRoNlP4ZIH8hYc13 loyQ== Received: by 10.180.99.195 with SMTP id es3mr3066897wib.12.1336815285567; Sat, 12 May 2012 02:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dell_xps.localnet (230.3.169.217.in-addr.arpa. [217.169.3.230]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ex2sm27632012wib.8.2012.05.12.02.34.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 12 May 2012 02:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Mick To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Are those "green" drives any good? Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 10:34:12 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/3.2.12-gentoo; KDE/4.8.1; x86_64; ; ) References: <4FAA2F0D.8080900@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1524927.dMXJFQMox9"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201205121035.02106.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: 567f5640-30e0-43d5-86fe-951d8cbd25d8 X-Archives-Hash: c4045e3a5e6e17d0f24d324d1b6c99be --nextPart1524927.dMXJFQMox9 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday 10 May 2012 19:51:14 Mark Knecht wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Norman Invasion >=20 > wrote: > > On 10 May 2012 14:01, Mark Knecht wrote: > >> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Norman Invasion > >>=20 > >> wrote: > >>> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale wrote: > >>>> Hi, > >>>>=20 > >>>> As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my > >>>> videos on, eventually. The prices are coming down now. I keep seei= ng > >>>> these "green" drives that are made by just about every company > >>>> nowadays. When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up > >>>> as good? Are they as dependable as a plain drive? I guess they are > >>>> more efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often > >>>> or no difference? > >>>>=20 > >>>> I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. That > >>>> much I have figured out. Other than that, I can't see any other > >>>> difference. Data speeds seem to be about the same. > >>>=20 > >>> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals. > >>> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many > >>> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is > >>> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end > >>> up running some iteration of > >>> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda > >>> every boot. > >>=20 > >> Very true about the 193 count. Here's a drive in a system that was > >> built in Jan., 2010 so it's a bit over 2 years old at this point. It's > >> on 24/7 and not rebooted except for more major updates, etc. My tests > >> say the drive spins down and starts back up every 2 minutes and has > >> been doing so for about 28 months. IIRC the 193 spec on this drive was > >> something like 300000 max with the drive currently clocking in at > >> 700488. I don't see any evidence that it's going to fail but I am > >> trying to make sure it's backed up often. Being that it's gone >2x at > >> this point I will swap the drive out in the early summer no matter > >> what. This week I'll be visiting where the machine is so I'm going to > >> put a backup drive in the box to get ready. > >=20 > > Yes, I just learned about this problem in 2009 or so, & > > checked on my FreeBSD laptop, which turned out to be > > at >400000. It only made it another month or so before > > having unrecoverable errors. > >=20 > > Now, I can't conclusively demonstrate that the 193 > > Load_Cycle_Count was somehow causitive, but I > > gots my suspicions. Many of 'em highly suspectable. >=20 > It's part of the 'Wear Out Failure' part of the Bathtub Curve posted > in the last few days. That said, some Toyotas go 100K miles, and > others go 500K miles. Same car, same spec, same production line, > different owners, different roads, different climates, etc. >=20 > It's not possible to absolutely know when any drive will fail. I > suspect that the 300K spec is just that, a spec. They'd replace the > drive if it failed at 299,999 and wouldn't replace it at 300,001. That > said, they don't want to spec thing too tightly, and I doubt many > people make a purchasing decision on a spec like this, so for the vast > majority of drives most likely they'd do far more than 300K. >=20 > At 2 minutes per count on that specific WD Green Drive, if a home > machine is turned on for instance 5 hours a day (6PM to 11PM) then > 300K count equates to around 6 years. To me that seems pretty generous > for a low cost home machine. However for a 24/7 production server it's > a pretty fast replacement schedule. >=20 > Here's data for my 500GB WD RAID Edition drives in my compute server > here. It's powered down almost every night but doesn't suffer from the > same firmware issues. The machine was built in April, 2010, so it's a > bit of 2 years old. Note that it's been powered on less than 1/2 the > number of hours but only has a 193 count of 907 vs > 700000! >=20 > Cheers, > Mark >=20 >=20 > c2stable ~ # smartctl -a /dev/sda > smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.2.12-gentoo] (local build) > Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net >=20 > =3D=3D=3D START OF INFORMATION SECTION =3D=3D=3D > Model Family: Western Digital RE3 Serial ATA > Device Model: WDC WD5002ABYS-02B1B0 > Serial Number: WD-WCASYA846988 > LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2042c3477 > Firmware Version: 02.03B03 > User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB] > Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical > Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] > ATA Version is: 8 > ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated > Local Time is: Thu May 10 11:45:45 2012 PDT > SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. > SMART support is: Enabled >=20 > =3D=3D=3D START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION =3D=3D=3D > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED >=20 > General SMART Values: > Offline data collection status: (0x84) Offline data collection activity > was suspended by an > interrupting command from host. > Auto Offline Data Collection: > Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test > routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. > Total time to complete Offline > data collection: ( 9480) seconds. > Offline data collection > capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. > Auto Offline data collection > on/off support. > Suspend Offline collection upon n= ew > command. > Offline surface scan supported. > Self-test supported. > Conveyance Self-test > supported. > Selective Self-test supported. > SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before > entering > power-saving mode. > Supports SMART auto save > timer. > Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. > General Purpose Logging > supported. > Short self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. > Extended self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 112) minutes. > Conveyance self-test routine > recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. > SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported. > SCT Error Recovery Control > supported. > SCT Feature Control supported. > SCT Data Table supported. >=20 > SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 > Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE > UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE > 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail > Always - 0 > 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 239 235 021 Pre-fail > Always - 1050 > 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 935 > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail > Always - 0 > 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 091 091 000 Old_age > Always - 7281 > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age > Always - 933 > 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 27 > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 907 > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 106 086 000 Old_age > Always - 41 > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000 Old_age > Offline - 0 > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age > Always - 0 > 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 200 200 000 Old_age > Offline - 0 Is this 193 Load_Cycle_Count an issue only on the green drives? I have a very old Compaq laptop here that shows: # smartctl -A /dev/sda | egrep "Power_On|Load_Cycle" 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 055 055 000 Old_age Always = =20 =2D 19830 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 001 001 000 Old_age Always = =20 =2D 1739734 Admittedly, there are some 60 errors on it (having been used extensively on= =20 bouncy trains, buses, aeroplanes, etc) but it is still refusing to die ... = =20 O_O It is a Hitachi 20G=20 =3D=3D=3D START OF INFORMATION SECTION =3D=3D=3D Model Family: Hitachi Travelstar 80GN Device Model: IC25N020ATMR04-0 Serial Number: MRX107K1DS623H =46irmware Version: MO1OAD5A User Capacity: 20,003,880,960 bytes [20.0 GB] Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 6 ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 3a Local Time is: Sat May 12 10:30:13 2012 BST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled =3D=3D=3D START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION =3D=3D=3D =2D-=20 Regards, Mick --nextPart1524927.dMXJFQMox9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAk+uLsUACgkQVTDTR3kpaLbbZACgnu7jSh7WSdOhLnkmW9QhgomN gWkAn136Efj5dsbizmHLo6qAmQmMmfae =Z08j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1524927.dMXJFQMox9--