From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1SDMRZ-0001St-0e for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:59:41 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 99CB4E0CAF; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:59:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f53.google.com (mail-wg0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17EBE0C71 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:56:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbfm10 with SMTP id fm10so1923046wgb.10 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:56:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jCQWwvW5YpPb68MKxx574aO+DdF+1hPEaKe7mb34uVg=; b=rZLGm9UtOSf6ColSAc4CL5HO/ZywVdYKYUWwEhBUlzfAw4eqEJGmJkKwjbTgLbAqey ElDIeBVLCHiV2OrHQ3HdLIPJDTRoLvL7MwvymzLT80qRAEB9SkDIxPz5JQJ/pF3gAxs8 e42QvNTBG3/10oR9anEYWWTGJpCXYHR20ucKAAGo5jMlyhkXUOoy30c9nWW9vl/Rrswj Ke87w+c80Y90Df0AiQREpCGVCCtohOeI+q3lXmKGTPp6R9du9XpoxvQLuEhtTJB4bWi+ Z8c2ZAgvvWo1f1NpmbqDrs06p0cwgxRHuI0lETT1ee79cUrDIJ2Vz5eHZoceyimLp/17 28yg== Received: by 10.180.91.168 with SMTP id cf8mr9256694wib.0.1333054616024; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from khamul.example.com (196-210-183-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.210.183.224]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fn2sm277876wib.0.2012.03.29.13.56.51 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:55:42 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: InitRAMFS - boot expert sought Message-ID: <20120329225542.730f9e46@khamul.example.com> In-Reply-To: <20120329120530.GA2428@nicolas-desktop> References: <4F72348A.2060407@gmail.com> <20120327235215.7834f4c7@khamul.example.com> <4F723F01.4040904@gmail.com> <20120328012023.50434b55@karnak.local> <20120328234027.33766b9c@khamul.example.com> <20120328230124.057e1472@karnak.local> <20120329002640.11ecf6e5@khamul.example.com> <20120329002004.6a4506a5@karnak.local> <20120329102836.3ea5e242@khamul.example.com> <20120329120530.GA2428@nicolas-desktop> Organization: Internet Solutions X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.10; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 10441bf0-c515-42b2-bb25-7bc219acec59 X-Archives-Hash: 6b126a6a409e31faec0727db34f49671 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:05:30 +0200 Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: > The 29/03/12, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:20:04 +0100 > > David W Noon wrote: > > > > The Gentoo developers have been discussing just that. The reason > > > is that many of the daemons that can be started by udev scripts > > > require work files on /var, so we could well need /var mounted > > > too. > > > > Which begs the obvious question, > > > > Why on earth is udev launching daemons in EARLY BOOT? > > udev launches nothing. udev scripts do. These scripts are not part of > udev. > OK, semantics. Let me re-phrase: Why is a third party script, running in the context of the udev universe, indiscriminately allowed to launch daemons at early boot time? I don't think I agree with Neil in that this is a udev design flaw (as any "fix" will be worse than the "flaw"). Instead it looks to me like a classic case of "You are free to do anything you want but if you break it you keep the pieces. If you do something stupid, it's not my problem and you're on your own." I see nothing wrong with udev applying some reasonable constraints such as clearly documenting at what point in the boot process udev is in a position to arbitrarily run anything. Earlier than that point, "anything" does not actually apply. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com