From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1SCfMQ-0005f5-QK for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:59:31 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 32C58E0B2A; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:59:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com (mail-we0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C141E0B7E for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:56:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werm13 with SMTP id m13so300090wer.40 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:56:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nCUvPdNrF5lVXbPidwpxyh2zdk1i7Wj6B0qukTyLMm8=; b=BS/hcL6A+LhJ+1u+Mt+CKtO4V6v1DsGSBLWFjziunBPvMv5PmjL4GsZjgmHD0nij/u o8bPsiu+Xy8BMelwuDoyfOAv/OLeLFRonrkuA8Sk4y16v7R0ynsQyuVmCL9JgVMgYK80 DT8N5BzwVzLuRnjbzCNxxRnZjdYSDxOFzltvbgjCufV0s4bRQxkj2jsf8iTwhNNPqz4z /Z1oJuk5e6NPotwd6NNKE9iq8Gz5blov3a2EvUiNor69o2TLgUZcJY0M1Tp2mISqF3Cj oJPYF4uwTmmKkjy9j3rFwKAZmbc1FQvN1X+768OWYEgK1TJB9DaBrprj6KJSHfF95V9c MEIg== Received: by 10.216.205.93 with SMTP id i71mr15542242weo.51.1332888989090; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from khamul.example.com (196-210-183-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.210.183.224]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fw5sm53101597wib.0.2012.03.27.15.56.26 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:55:20 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: After /usr conflation: why not copy booting software to /sbin rather than initramfs? Message-ID: <20120328005520.140b8fd6@khamul.example.com> In-Reply-To: <20120327223544.GC3437@acm.acm> References: <20120327133728.GA3754@acm.acm> <01c301cd0c22$2fac1300$8f043900$@kutulu.org> <20120327142646.GB3754@acm.acm> <20120327154620.21440f87@digimed.co.uk> <86iphq0vza.fsf@jane.chrekh.se> <003e01cd0c53$a2e99b90$e8bcd2b0$@kutulu.org> <20120327212422.GA3437@acm.acm> <20120327234819.45111444@khamul.example.com> <20120327223544.GC3437@acm.acm> Organization: Internet Solutions X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.10; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 386f351b-c7f1-4be8-8c88-e7eaf97ef193 X-Archives-Hash: a51771d29a0182bbc6407ad21d0365ed On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:35:44 +0000 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hi, Alan. > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:48:19PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:24:22 +0000 > > Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > > > That is precisely what the question was NOT about. The idea was > > > to copy (not move) booting software to /sbin instead of an > > > initramfs - the exact same programs, modulo noise - to have the > > > SW in /sbin necessary to mount /usr. > > > Two words: > > > shared libraries > > > Copying binaries is not enough. You have to find and copy every > > shared library those binaries use. Plus all the data and other > > files they might need. > > > This is non-trivial. > > . It's equally non-trivial for initramfs, yet > nobody seems to be raising this objection for that. > > Why is nobody else on this thread willing to take up its main point, > the exact equivalence between the known, ugly, initramfs solution and > the as yet half-baked idea of putting the same binaries into /sbin? Read my other mail and pay attention to the difference between transient and persistent. initramfs is an elegant engineering solution (albeit over-engineered for our specific case of being Gentoo users). Your questions are about an extremely ill-advised action that has no sound basis. It copies stuff around to make one very specific thing work but with zero consideration for what it will do to everything else. That is bad, bad engineering. If you want all this stuff in /, then do it correctly and modify the ebuilds to put the originals there (and troubleshoot the fallout from other faulty hard-coded stuffs). This is a lot of work, but it is sound. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com